Match 3: Denmark vs Finland - 5pm (BST) BBC1 live from Copenhagen

[Barry Cartman]

1 minute ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

No, it's from the managerial direction of "take the fall, act hurt" to get the foul. The Italians were absolute masters of this, and it's the main reason until now why they've never scored more than 2 goals in a tournament group stage match. They'd always drop to the ground and act injured when a goal up.

Because managers know you don't get anything for being nice, Mourinho repeatly says this in the Spurs Amazon documentary. Foden is still young and naive, do you think hes going to carry on staying on his feet getting nothing from officials, or start rolling around on the floor to make sure he gets the decisions? 

[EnterUsernameHere]

2 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

No, it's from the managerial direction of "take the fall, act hurt" to get the foul. The Italians were absolute masters of this, and it's the main reason until now why they've never scored more than 2 goals in a tournament group stage match. They'd always drop to the ground and act injured when a goal up.

I'm impressed you went from such a general point to **** the Italians so quickly. Well played.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

7 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

No, start by giving clear fouls to players who don't dive around on the floor

Take this one on Foden

Can't give a foul to a player who doesn't act injured, when players already drop to the ground and act injured by default.

It needs to be more basic than that, since impartial doctors are getting brought in for concussions, it really needs to go a step further to get medical experts in to determine if "injured" players are actually hurt when they roll around and stay on the ground demanding treatment. If their conclusion the answer is there's nothing wrong with them, then they should get an automatic yellow card.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Obi-Wan Kenobi

[EnterUsernameHere]

Just now, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

Can't give a foul to a player who doesn't act injured, when players already drop to the ground and act injured by default.

It needs to be more basic than that, since impartial doctors are getting brought in for concussions, it really needs to go a step further to get medical experts in to determine is "injured" players are actually hurt when they roll around and stay on the ground demanding treatment. If their conclusion the answer is there's nothing wrong with them, then they should get an automatic yellow card.

How many stoppages a game are you wanting with that policy?

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Just now, EnterUsernameHere said:

How many stoppages a game are you wanting with that policy?

Whatever it takes to initially stamp it out, it would only take a brief period to do so. When it flairs up again, take more time to do so to re-affirm the message until it calms down again.

[Pukey]

1 minute ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

Can't give a foul to a player who doesn't act injured, when players already drop to the ground and act injured by default.

It needs to be more basic than that, since impartial doctors are getting brought in for concussions, it really needs to go a step further to get medical experts in to determine is "injured" players are actually hurt when they roll around and stay on the ground demanding treatment. If their conclusion the answer is there's nothing wrong with them, then they should get an automatic yellow card.

This makes no sense, players obviously take the mick with the rolling around and everything, but I can't think of the amount of times I've gone down and needed a bit of treatment (or just a minute or two to recover) but then been absolutely fine to carry on. How on earth is a medical professional meant to make that kind of judgement when there's going to be god knows how many of those instances across a season? It's absolutely impossible to judge.

[Haguey]

Give the penalty, then book the player for being theatrical 

[EnterUsernameHere]

No penalties, no cards. Hell in a cell rules. 

That'll toughen them up.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

2 minutes ago, Pukey said:

This makes no sense, players obviously take the mick with the rolling around and everything, but I can't think of the amount of times I've gone down and needed a bit of treatment (or just a minute or two to recover) but then been absolutely fine to carry on. How on earth is a medical professional meant to make that kind of judgement when there's going to be god knows how many of those instances across a season? It's absolutely impossible to judge.

Simple, don't be theatrical with rolling around, and just ask for treatment if you needed it.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Obi-Wan Kenobi

[EnterUsernameHere]

Just now, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

Simple, don't be theatrical with rolling around, and just ask for treatment if you needed.

I get your point, but it's not a one way street. Refs need to do better to punish fouls when players stay up.

It's pretty much accepted that if you stay up now, you weren't fouled.

[Hairycull]

My point about diving is when players go down easily it can be very very hard at first glance to see what is a real injury and what isnt. Its very unlikely but still possible that a life could be lost because of this. I repeat that this is very unlikley. But it is still possible.

Take Neymar at the World Cup in Brazil. I bet you that even the physio that attended him was suprised he wasnt faking it.

What happened tonight was amazing in how another player recognised something was seriously wrong. But what would have happened if his view had been blocked by another player? His only view would have been a player hitting the ground and he might just have waited for the physio/doctor to arrive. Which might have resulted in death.

I realise that i am saying a what if scenario but it could happen. 

I would hope that some of the serial divers in this tournament think twice about it in the coming games but I doubt it.

[HOORAY HENRIK]

Think it’s just sunk in how absolutely bonkers that whole episode earlier was.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

Just now, EnterUsernameHere said:

I get your point, but it's not a one way street. Refs need to do better to punish fouls when players stay up.

It's pretty much accepted that if you stay up now, you weren't fouled.

I completely accept as well refs need to be better too, it's not a one-way street in that regard.

I'm also talking from the point of view where I've had to physically had to hold ice hockey players back from immediately re-joining play when they've either had multiple teeth removed, or had their jaws wired after being struck on their face with a puck. Just night and day the reaction between ice hockey player and footballer.

[EnterUsernameHere]

Just now, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

I completely accept as well refs need to be better too, it's not a one-way street in that regard.

I'm also talking from the point of view where I've had to physically had to hold ice hockey players back from immediately re-joining play when they've either had multiple teeth removed, or had their jaws wired after being struck on their face with a puck. Just night and day the reaction between ice hockey player and footballer.

Fair enough. No complaints with that.

[Pukey]

4 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

Simple, don't be theatrical with rolling around, and just ask for treatment if you needed it.

Still doesn't answer the question as to how anyone is meant to make that judgement. I'd rather it stays as it is with players acting like idiots and getting mocked than players basically being yellow carded for being injured but being deemed not injured enough by some medical professional.

2 minutes ago, Hairycull said:

My point about diving is when players go down easily it can be very very hard at first glance to see what is a real injury and what isnt. Its very unlikely but still possible that a life could be lost because of this. I repeat that this is very unlikley. But it is still possible.

Take Neymar at the World Cup in Brazil. I bet you that even the physio that attended him was suprised he wasnt faking it.

What happened tonight was amazing in how another player recognised something was seriously wrong. But what would have happened if his view had been blocked by another player? His only view would have been a player hitting the ground and he might just have waited for the physio/doctor to arrive. Which might have resulted in death.

I realise that i am saying a what if scenario but it could happen. 

I would hope that some of the serial divers in this tournament think twice about it in the coming games but I doubt it.

It really isn't fgs, I know you're making a point with a boy who cried wolf situation, but there is absolutely no way that any player doesn't get treatment within seconds the way Eriksen went down today. It's incredibly obvious incredibly quickly when it's a serious incident, especially when the situation happens with no one anywhere near the player.  

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

1 minute ago, Pukey said:

Still doesn't answer the question as to how anyone is meant to make that judgement. I'd rather it stays as it is with players acting like idiots and getting mocked than players basically being yellow carded for being injured but being deemed not injured enough by some medical professional.

You're point doesn't make sense as other sports such as ice hockey already demonstrate that when players act honestly, they get treated accordingly. Players and officials in football are placed in the completely unacceptable position of having to decide if player X went down because they genuinely got hurt, or did so because it was simply "best" to throw themselves down and act hurt to win a free-kick to do so.

[Reggiana]

30 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

No, it's from the managerial direction of "take the fall, act hurt" to get the foul. The Italians were absolute masters of this, and it's the main reason until now why they've never scored more than 2 goals in a tournament group stage match. They'd always drop to the ground and act injured when a goal up.

That's not true.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

1 minute ago, Reggiana said:

That's not true.

Your evidence?

[Pukey]

4 minutes ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

You're point doesn't make sense as other sports such as ice hockey already demonstrate that when players act honestly, they get treated accordingly. Players and officials in football are placed in the completely unacceptable position of having to decide if player X went down because they genuinely got hurt, or did so because it was simply "best" to throw themselves down and act hurt to win a free-kick to do so.

I mean, the diving situation is awful, I'm not arguing it's not, and I'm all for seeing how we can change it and there's many factors, but your suggestion of booking players if they go down theatrically but aren't injured makes absolutely no sense. How other sports are has absolutely nothing to do with this. How theatrical is too theatrical? How injured is injured? This is my point, it would be absolutely impossible to make fair judgements especially as a player going down holding their ankle but being able to carry on doesn't mean they didn't get hurt.

[Haguey]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57457388

Key quotes for me

Quote

Danish players were given two choices - to finish the game that night, or at noon the next day. After hearing Eriksen was OK, they decided to get it finished that evening.

Denmark head coach Kasper Hjulmand said: "The players could not imagine not being able to sleep tonight and to have to go on a bus tomorrow and play again. It was easier to go out and it was best to get it over with.

"You can't play a game with such feelings. We tried to win. It was incredible they managed to go out and try to play the second half.

"Honestly, there were players out there who were completely done. Emotionally done and emotionally exhausted.

UEFA are total scum.

[Reggiana]

1 minute ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

Your evidence?

I've not counted up exactly but they've scored more than two on about half a dozen occasions in group matches.

[Pukey]

1 minute ago, Haguey said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57457388

Key quotes for me

UEFA are total scum.

Ok now we can call UEFA scum.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

1 minute ago, Pukey said:

I mean, the diving situation is awful, I'm not arguing it's not, and I'm all for seeing how we can change it and there's many factors, but your suggestion of booking players if they go down theatrically but aren't injured makes absolutely no sense. How other sports are has absolutely nothing to do with this. How theatrical is too theatrical? How injured is injured? This is my point, it would be absolutely impossible to make fair judgements especially as a player going down holding their ankle but being able to carry on doesn't mean they didn't get hurt.

The problem in football is it ultimately boils down to "win at all costs". Would you give a 4x if your main guy faked injury if it meant winning the EPL/FA Cup/League Cup/Champions League for your club? Probably not is the answer most fans would give, but that in turn is the problem, and Fifa/Uefa's lack of action on this is also the problem. It's not going to change anytime soon, but I'll still moan about it and raise the point in any event.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

3 minutes ago, Haguey said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57457388

Key quotes for me

UEFA are total scum.

Finland were due to fly out this evening to elsewhere for the next group games. In reality, there wasn't any other day to play out the game other than the day it was scheduled for. I was rooting for Finland to win from an underdog POV, but not like that. Really the rest of the game should have been played on another day, but as I said, UEFA didn't build anything like that into their schedule in any event, so we may not know the full facts for many years to come.

[EnterUsernameHere]

6 minutes ago, Haguey said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57457388

Key quotes for me

UEFA are total scum.

Interesting. Either he held back earlier or Danish FA did.

Awful nonetheless, **** UEFA.

[Pukey]

What does that have to do with anything? We agree diving is an issue, but we're arguing about your potential solution, which is a nonsensical suggestion. I can't say I have some magical fix either, but booking players for effectively not being injured enough just simply wouldn't work, it is absolutely impossible to judge.

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

1 minute ago, Pukey said:

What does that have to do with anything? We agree diving is an issue, but we're arguing about your potential solution, which is a nonsensical suggestion. I can't say I have some magical fix either, but booking players for effectively not being injured enough just simply wouldn't work, it is absolutely impossible to judge.

Punishing a player for faking being injured when not injured isn't a solution? Don't get that at all.

[Pukey]

1 minute ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

Punishing a player for faking being injured when not injured isn't a solution? Don't get that at all.

Because how do you judge it ffs  How injured does a player have to be? If they're ok to carry on does that mean they were faking? If they have a limp is that ok? 

[Obi-Wan Kenobi]

2 minutes ago, Pukey said:

Because how do you judge it ffs  How injured does a player have to be? If they're ok to carry on does that mean they were faking? If they have a limp is that ok? 

Well put it this way, a tap on one's shoulder should not have you drop to the ground holding your leg. Use VAR initially if needed, once that's used as a basis to determine if a player actually got hurt, they will be less likely to act hurt when they're not hurt. Tell players at the start it's assumed they are lying at the onset and will have to be honest before they get believed again, you'll soon sort it. Same with shirt pulling and hand holding in boxes for corners, if you just gave penalities to the attacking team for it, all that s**t would soon stop.

[noikeee]

1 hour ago, Obi-Wan Kenobi said:

No, it's from the managerial direction of "take the fall, act hurt" to get the foul. The Italians were absolute masters of this, and it's the main reason until now why they've never scored more than 2 goals in a tournament group stage match. 

What an absolutely bizarre thing to say. Diving might not be nice to watch or be morally reprehensible in some way, but it doesn't cost you goals. 

[Pukey]

VAR is already slow and cumbersome as it is, having it analyse any time a player goes down would turn the sport into an unwatchable mess. That, and there's plenty of times where players can get hurt without it being obvious, so there would 100% be situations where you'd look at an incident and think "ah yeah, they're embellishing this" and it turns out they've landed awkwardly and pulled a muscle or something. Even innocuous incidents that look from replays like there's no way it's cause any issues could genuinely make a player feel pain, even temporarily. One of our players was out for nearly a year after simply jumping for a header and even on replays it looked like nothing, but the fall clearly damaged his ACL. Obviously that's an extreme example and I know you wouldn't be punishing players who end up substituted because they can't continue, but my point still is that it isn't anywhere near as easy to tell as you're suggesting and far too many innocent players would be punished to make it worth it. If it was a rule that was around for a while it would stop players embellishing, but there would be an uproar anytime a player says they're legitimately injured, and the rule would be scrapped way before it had any kind of impact. And as I mentioned earlier, I've gone down absolutely loads from tackles and everything but carried on with no issues, and I'm sure with some of those if there was replays (and I hope none of my terrible performances have ever been recorded) it would look like I was faking especially after being able to play on without incident. 

Referees actually punishing fouls when players don't go down so they're not encouraged to dive would be a start, that Foden incident linked earlier being a prime example. Then players being booked after VAR overturns penalty decisions when they're clear dives would help as well.

[GIMN]

Have you ever stubbed your toe?  Or, whacked your funny bone?

I don't know about anyone else, but my reaction in those circumstances could be described as theatrical.  I live alone - I'm not acting out to get attention.  It just really f***ing hurts for about 30 seconds, and it manifests in this really awkward energy.  Especially the elbow.  I'll be there cradling it, rocking backwards and forwards.  And don't get me started with being woken up by cramp.  The shapes my body makes as I jut between the stretched out and the fetal position and utterly ridiculous.  When I had a hairline fracture in my back...I worked through a shift, and didn't go hospital until the following day.

Point is, our bodies are weird.  Sometimes the most severe injuries elicit minimal response.  We essentially give ourselves a boost of adrenaline to allow us to get through the moment.  On the flip side, sometimes our body registers pain to be greater than it actually is, and it takes a little while for our brain to catch-up.

[Mr Adam]

Only thing I’ll add to this ridiculous diving debate is that if we are talking about “all referees need to get better”, then perhaps we need to look at the underlying reasons that they’re not giving fouls for players staying on their feet, rather than just saying the refs all need to get better.

 

On Eriksen - praise the lord he’s ok. I understand it was difficult to watch. I’ve not seen it all and hope I don’t have to. I was in the car driving home from a day at the beech and hearing it on the radio was awful. You couldn’t see with your own eyes to validate what was happening. For 2 mins or so we thought he was just injured, at no point did the commentators explain this was a life threatening thing. Must have been hard for all commentators involved.

Anyway, thank goodness he’s ok. 
 

It was a bit emotional for me as just a few hours earlier I found out a running club friend of mine had had a cardiac arrest in a marathon and it’s unfortunately not looking good for him. 

[VamPook]

Refs don't clamp down on diving either

They can't even use VAR to dish out yellow cards on obvious as hell offences

Why wouldn't I game the system if I knew there are no consequences. Not to mention there's only downside if I don't embellish contact

[VamPook]

Well, it clearly isn't just a British thing

The national newspaper here put up this article and used the following photo(uncensored) 🤦‍♂️

Got royally screwed in the online comments but apparently only changed it after 7 hours

[Weezer]

8 hours ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

 

If refs called it as it was, there'd be less feigning contact.

There absolutely wouldn’t.

Even VAR and the knowledge there are dozens of TV cameras and slow motion technology to catch their every move from every possible angle hasn’t stamped out diving. Until players are properly punished, even retroactively, for diving it won’t stop.

But this is a completely different issue to Eriksen and not really sure why it was bought up in that context.

[VamPook]

11 hours ago, Butts said:

Can we all just appreciate what a man Simon Kjaer is, no captain is prepared for this but what a way to stand up. I’m sharing these images to show the amazing response, don’t want to go all Bbc.

Apparently to other reports he was also the one who asked to do the shield as well

Although I think the earlier tweet alluded to another player

I definitely sure as hell wouldn't think about it if I were on the pitch

[Big Geordie]

Has there been any update on the lad's condition?

[arenaross]

 

 

[The_jagster]

I don't have the direct quotes as it was on the Football Weekly podcast but I think the Danish coach talked about taking off players who didn't feel in the right state of mind to play at full "aggression" given what had happened - I'm guessing this might have referred to Kjaer quite understandably.

It seems like they would rather have played the match given the alternative rather than being entirely willing to, I don't think that is a huge reach based on what has been said.

[Sned]

Glad to see Eriksen doing better  

An almost impossible situation for the Denmark team, can't imagine how they felt having to go back out and finish that game  

On the other point of conversation in here, regarding players feigning injury etc, is it time we explored just letting medical staff enter the field of player without stopping the game to treat injured players? I can see positives and negatives in my own head - but would be interested to see what others think. Obviously the referee could/should stop the game for anything potentially serious, but it would surely eliminate players making a big deal out of nothing just to waste time?

[Weezer]

Make anybody that goes down holding their head an immediate, but 'free', substitution. Make it part of the concussion protocols. If you've took a bang to the head that's enough to put you on the deck rolling around screaming in agony you're in no fit state to immediately continue a competitive professional football game. Maybe that will make players think twice if they know they'll get hauled off for it.

Obviously won't happen but that's what annoys me more than the diving, players clutching their faces as though they've taken a hit from a pro boxer only to immediately spring up and continue sprinting around when play resumes. The human body doesn't work like that, water on a sponge doesn't work like that.

[GunmaN1905]

Marotta had to confirm Eriksen wasn't vaccinated because some morons were implying it's the vaccine side-effect.

The state of those people. Physical violence is sometimes the only way to "talk" some sense into absolute morons.

[himan]

I hope that Denmark will win 4-0 Against Russia in the last game. That will be a big deserved party in that country.

[craigcwwe]

1 minute ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Marotta had to confirm Eriksen wasn't vaccinated because some morons were implying it's the vaccine side-effect.

The state of those people. Physical violence is sometimes the only way to "talk" some sense into absolute morons.

I did wonder after it happened how long until the Covid stuff started. 

[Marius_R]

9 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

I did wonder after it happened how long until the Covid stuff started. 

The former Romanian national team doctor said it could be a Covid side effect immediately after the game.

[Carambau]

Hope he makes a full recovery

Edited June 13, 2021 by Carambau

[Orzelek]

That was so scary to watch. The whole day before that was a huge party in Copenhagen, as it was the first time a big international tournament was held here. When Eriksen collapsed everything went quiet. 

 

So happy, that he's ok  

 

 

[Orzelek]

As for the game - kudos for Finland, who plyed really well. Ofcourse it was an almost impsosiible game to play for Denmark after teh episode with Eriksen, but nothing shall be taken away from the Finns. They did get the most out of their player material, and Denmark were not dominating them totally at no point in the game.

[VamPook]

Denmark’s team doctor Morten Boesen has confirmed Christian Eriksen suffered cardiac arrest and that ”he was gone” before he was resuscitated.

Boesen says ”we got him back after one defib. That’s quite fast. ... How close were we? I don't know.” #EURO2020