Advice For Making a 343 Tactic?

[Djeon36]

I've always been interested in the 343 tactic recently especially since Chelsea won the Champions League with it and how quickly they've become good under Thomas Tuchel. I've been using some plug-in play 343 tactics with my Nottingham Forest team none of them seem to ever work out so well. I've wanted to make my own tactic for sometime now and thought that this would be a nice chance to try out making my own tactic and seeing how it goes. I was wondering if there are any good articles or videos that explain how to make a good 343 tactic for fm21. I am thinking of making a counter attacking type tactic where the team defends deep and makes like a mid-low block and using the forwards for a quick counter attack. If anything, I might continue to post my progress on what my idea/attempts are to make my ideal 343 tactic and ask you guys for your inputs. 

[Robbe8]

As long as they don't implement a mix between a CB and a FB for the two wide CBs in a 3 defender formation, those kind of tactics won't work so well in my opinion, compared to a 4231 one for example.

However I would use two AM instead of two wingers just to reduce the gap between the two CM and the forward, just my opinion but I could be wrong. Also it's very important to have a player like Kante to make this tactic work better.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Robbe8

[Djeon36]

2 hours ago, Robbe8 said:

As long as they don't implement a mix between a CB and a FB for the two wide CBs in a 3 defender formation, those kind of tactics won't work so well in my opinion, compared to a 4231 one for example.

However I would use two AM instead of two wingers just to reduce the gap between the two CM and the forward, just my opinion but I could be wrong. Also it's very important to have a player like Kante to make this tactic work better.

Ok yeah I seem to see that also especially with other online content with a 343 like formation. I was wondering why that's the case that 343 with wingers and wing backs aren't as effective as other variations. I'm not trying to replicate Chelsea's tactic, I was just using them as an example but its just that the way my team is right now, I have 3 good CB's and a lot of good wingers on both sides so I'm just trying to make the best tactic for my team.  I guess I can try out what you mentioned with using two CAM instead of two wingers ill see how that goes. But in the meantime I need to find out how to make a good 3atb tactic I was wondering if you know any good articles or videos to help me with the process. 

Edited June 9, 2021 by Djeon36

[crusadertsar]

I found the best way to recreate those kinds of tactics in current FM ME is with a single CB told to hold position with two FB(s) or even IWB(d). All three players have to be very good, technical and fast however. Especially the fullbacks who should be more in the mold of tall box-box midfielders (who can also cross).

The AI can't really deal with one CB tactics like that. And with a very good team it could almost become an exploit. But it has to be the kind of tactic where you are looking to outscore the opposition in the first half and then switch to something more defensive. The kind of movement you generate is much better than with 3 CBs which tend to be much too stale for a realistic 3-4-3 recreation.

Edited June 9, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Experienced Defender]

Which specific variant of the 343 formation are you referring to? The literal one with 3 CBs, flat midfield four and 3 central strikers or some of the versions that include wing-backs (such as 523 wide or 5212)? 

[Djeon36]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Which specific variant of the 343 formation are you referring to? The literal one with 3 CBs, flat midfield four and 3 central strikers or some of the versions that include wing-backs (such as 523 wide or 5212)? 

I am talking about a back 3 CBs with 2 WBs, 2 CM, 2 Wingers and 1 striker

[Experienced Defender]

9 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

I am talking about a back 3 CBs with 2 WBs, 2 CM, 2 Wingers and 1 striker

Well, given that you want to make it into a low-block counter-attacking style, here are a couple of quick suggestions:

- the lone striker and one of the wide forwards should have attack duties to help with fast attacking transitions

- central midfield should be more of a holding/covering than running type (avoid roles like mezzala or RPM)

- wing-back roles/duties depend on the choice of midfield and wing roles in front of them, but in any case they should both be standard WBs (as opposed to CWB) and neither should have attack duty for the style of play you want to implement

Just try to think logically and approach the tactic as a system that works as a result of interaction between all its elements, with the setup of roles and duties being the most important among them.

[Piperita]

17 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

[... ] The kind of movement you generate is much better than with 3 CBs which tend to be much too stale for a realistic 3-4-3 recreation.

Since last year I think flanking BPD(St) with "Brings Ball out of Defense" PPM and "stay wider" PI are pretty good in their movement and support. They stretch the field and can run up the sides until almost the height of the opponent's box and thus give good support for more aggressive Fullbacks or players cutting inside late (IWBd/IWa who stayed wider really brought the side to life for me!).

I don't play with only one CD too often too properly compare both options (judging by the build-in analysis it looks like something the devs didn't really think about using, so I see it as a potential exploit waiting to happen) so maybe that is still comparatively stale but it looks way, way better than three defenders on D/C-duty.

It is just a shame that playing through the middle stopped upping their mentality. Central Defenders on +0 were just amazing!

[Djeon36]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, given that you want to make it into a low-block counter-attacking style, here are a couple of quick suggestions:

- the lone striker and one of the wide forwards should have attack duties to help with fast attacking transitions

- central midfield should be more of a holding/covering than running type (avoid roles like mezzala or RPM)

- wing-back roles/duties depend on the choice of midfield and wing roles in front of them, but in any case they should both be standard WBs (as opposed to CWB) and neither should have attack duty for the style of play you want to implement

Just try to think logically and approach the tactic as a system that works as a result of interaction between all its elements, with the setup of roles and duties being the most important among them.

Ok thank you for the advice. I was wondering if u could give me a few good examples for a midfield pairing. like does BBM works well with a BWM support? I'm just trying to get a good idea so I can understand what to do. 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

When you've only got the two central midfielders, a BBM and a BWM on support seems like a bad idea. BWM on support is going to leave his position to aggressively close down the opposition, so that combined with the way BBM plays will leave that area with a lot of space. Ideally you'd want a CM(De) or BWM(De) to pair with the BBM.

[Djeon36]

18 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

When you've only got the two central midfielders, a BBM and a BWM on support seems like a bad idea. BWM on support is going to leave his position to aggressively close down the opposition, so that combined with the way BBM plays will leave that area with a lot of space. Ideally you'd want a CM(De) or BWM(De) to pair with the BBM.

Ok thank you. My bad the BWM example was just something I made up on the spot for the sake of the question, but thank you for the insight. 

[Rashidi]

12 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

I am talking about a back 3 CBs with 2 WBs, 2 CM, 2 Wingers and 1 striker

The challenge with making one with wingbacks is that those wingbacks will need to be very aggressive so that your system doesn't end up being so defensive. You could make a reasonably good 343 using defensive wingers instead. 

[Djeon36]

Good point sounds interesting I'll give that a try actually. What about the 3 CB parings what are some good parings for a 3atb formation?

[CaptCanuck]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

The challenge with making one with wingbacks is that those wingbacks will need to be very aggressive so that your system doesn't end up being so defensive. You could make a reasonably good 343 using defensive wingers instead. 

What does very aggressive mean? I've been using IWB(s) & WB(s) - with the occasional CWB(s) - for a while now and certainly don't see anything that looks too defensive and my right-side WB(s) is usually amongst my assist leaders, while the IWB(s) can do a tidy job as an extra CM.

With FM21's propensity for blocked crosses, I've not been keen on anything that defaults to byline and/or crossing more often, but maybe there are better mitigating methods that I'm not using.

[CaptCanuck]

57 minutes ago, Djeon36 said:

Good point sounds interesting I'll give that a try actually. What about the 3 CB parings what are some good parings for a 3atb formation?

You need to experiment - as it will depend on the midfielders in front of them and what you do with your WBs/FBs. You also need to think whether you want them involved in the build up or just want lump it into row Z types. For instance, I used Potter's style to build out my tactics, so I used 3 BPDs and play from the back, with a different style in mind that might not be the case.

Further to Ex's comments, player roles aside how do you want to play? If Nott Forest are not super talented, maybe something like Nuno's Wolves teams from 2018-20 (obviously not 21 ha) with a focus on counter-attacking? Or if you are really keen on Tuchel's style, go for it!

Personally I like to read non-FM pieces on tactics to help with what I want to do, as opposed to always thinking in TIs, PIs, duties, etc... those can be applied after having a good think. Replay a stretch of preseason matches over and over and refine as you go or go back to some point in a save in the previous season and play a stretch of games. Unless you are plug and playing, it takes time to see how things go together :-)

Tuchel example: https://themastermindsite.com/2021/03/17/thomas-tuchel-chelsea-tactical-analysis/

Nuno: https://themastermindsite.com/2020/03/29/nuno-espirito-santo-wolves-tactical-analysis/

[Djeon36]

1 minute ago, CaptCanuck said:

You need to experiment - as it will depend on the midfielders in front of them and what you do with your WBs/FBs. You also need to think whether you want them involved in the build up or just want lump it into row Z types. For instance, I used Potter's style to build out my tactics, so I used 3 BPDs and play from the back, with a different style in mind that might not be the case.

Further to Ex's comments, player roles aside how do you want to play? If Nott Forest are not super talented, maybe something like Nuno's Wolves teams from 2018-20 (obviously not 21 ha) with a focus on counter-attacking? Or if you are really keen on Tuchel's style, go for it!

Personally I like to read non-FM pieces on tactics to help with what I want to do, as opposed to always thinking in TIs, PIs, duties, etc... those can be applied after having a good think. Replay a stretch of preseason matches over and over and refine as you go or go back to some point in a save in the previous season and play a stretch of games. Unless you are plug and playing, it takes time to see how things go together :-)

Tuchel example: https://themastermindsite.com/2021/03/17/thomas-tuchel-chelsea-tactical-analysis/

Nuno: https://themastermindsite.com/2020/03/29/nuno-espirito-santo-wolves-tactical-analysis/

Thanks for the resources. I uhh.... kinda wanna put this on pause for a bit. Just read an amazing 442 thread here and now want to try my Burnley save again for the 1000th time to try to make a good 442 tactic for the team. But please do keep sending advice and resources on this thread its super helpful and to those who are also trying to make a similar tactic. 

[Experienced Defender]

8 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

I was wondering if u could give me a few good examples for a midfield pairing. like does BBM works well with a BWM support?

I cannot give you examples of midfield pairings only, because any tactical partnership or combination must be viewed exclusively as an integral part of a whole system. Therefore, I can only give you examples of an entire setup.

[gokalpcakir1]

I tried it before and I felt that I approached it mostly with these formations. I'm not very good at pi and ti, but you can observe and shape 3-4 matches in 2d and full

 

 

 

[Robbe8]

For those kind of tactics maybe the DLP doesn't suit so well since you want a fast and direct attack maybe ?

[Djeon36]

13 hours ago, gokalpcakir1 said:

I tried it before and I felt that I approached it mostly with these formations. I'm not very good at pi and ti, but you can observe and shape 3-4 matches in 2d and full

 

 

 

These look really cool. I was wondering if you ever tired to lowering the the DL and the LOE to create a mid block or a low block and how did that go?

[gokalpcakir1]

it has some problems in producing i haven't tried to drop the blocks but more asymmetrical setups may make more sense I haven't worked on it too much

[Experienced Defender]

@gokalpcakir1 Your last 2 posts have been removed from this thread because they had nothing to do with the topic. Therefore, please stop posting your tactics and other off-topic content on a random basis.