Dribble Less TI vs Dribble More PI

[KCHDD]

Hi all, currently playing with this tactic (4231):

GK: SKsu

RB: FBsu (sit narrower, hold position, cut inside with ball)

LB: WBsu (stay wider)

LCB: BPDde

RCB: CDde

RCM: CMsu (take more risks)

LCM: CMde

RW: IWat (stay wider)

AM: APat (roam from position, move into channels)

LW: IFsu (roam from position)

ST: DLFat (roam from position)

Balanced mentality

Play out of defence, Shorter passing, Work ball into box, Be more expressive, Focus play through middle

Distribute to CBs, Counter-press

Higher defensive line, Higher line of engagement, More urgent pressing, Prevent short GK distribution

 

Sorry if I'm being too specific into my tactic but not sure if it contributes to my problems. I am mostly seeing what I want from my tactic, its really resulted in some one touch pass and go football, the build up is orgasmic at times. The one problem I have is my attackers, wide forwards in particular tend to get tunnel vision and dribble excessively despite having multiple options to pass to. They sometimes end up ramming the ball at the defender for a corner rather than pass to an open man like the overlapping full back. I do know that IFsu, APat and IWat have the PI dribble more which could have resulted in this problem.

I'm thinking about adding the dribble less TI but would it mitigate the PI so my forwards don't have an increased tendency to dribble, or does it not affect the PI and instead tell all other players to dribble less ie not at all? So tl;dr does dribble less TI override dribble more PI?

[CARRERA]

50 minutes ago, KCHDD said:

They sometimes end up ramming the ball at the defender for a corner rather than pass to an open man like the overlapping full back.

Well, that doesn’t sound like a dribbling issue. Simply because dribbling has nothing to do with crossing. It would be a dribbling issue, if a) the player looses possession when trying to beat his man by running by him or b) your player is getting isolated without passing options due to his dribbling run.

so I assume, it’s either a tempo issue, with tempo being too high, or simply a player with bad decisionmaking (including vision, teamwork, anticipation) overall.

However, players tend to cross from wide areas in this year ME. So it can’t be nullified completely 

[Experienced Defender]

So your tactic looks like this:

DLFat

IFsu          APat          IWat

CMde   CMsu

WBsu   BPDde  CDde  FBsu

SKsu

Balanced - short pass, PoD, WBiB, BME & focus middle - distribute to CBs & counterpress - higher DL, higher LOE, more urgent & prevent GKD

Well, the most obvious problem IMHO is contradiction between possession-oriented instructions and a not-really-possession-friendly setup of roles and duties. So i don't think that the dribble more or less dilemma is the major issue. Instead, I would look to sort out the roles and duties before anything else, because that's the most important aspect of any tactic. Then come the instructions (if needed).

In the defensive phase, you are combining an aggressive manner of defending with relatively low compactness for that kind of formation (top-heavy 4231).

[KCHDD]

21 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

It would be a dribbling issue, if a) the player looses possession when trying to beat his man by running by him or b) your player is getting isolated without passing options due to his dribbling run.

The crossing was a potential result of the excessive dribbling, and I do encounter the 2 problems you have mentioned here. Players might also keep on dribbling and end up without anyone to pass to because they ignore options presented to them on the way.

[CARRERA]

12 minutes ago, KCHDD said:

The crossing was a potential result of the excessive dribbling, and I do encounter the 2 problems you have mentioned here. Players might also keep on dribbling and end up without anyone to pass to because they ignore options presented to them on the way.

Ok then. If dribble less doesn’t fix it, I would still try the tempo. It’s often hard to say whether it’s from bad decision making or an instruction.

[Mitja]

Having plenty of experience with dribble less and I'm pretty sure it will only make things worse. Lower mentality, shorter passing, lower tempo, underlaps or overlaps might help a little but I think wide players generally still run with ball a little too much and are too selfish. 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Mitja

[herne79]

4 hours ago, KCHDD said:

I do know that IFsu, APat and IWat have the PI dribble more which could have resulted in this problem.

I'm thinking about adding the dribble less TI but would it mitigate the PI so my forwards don't have an increased tendency to dribble, or does it not affect the PI and instead tell all other players to dribble less ie not at all? So tl;dr does dribble less TI override dribble more PI?

What you are seeing may not be restricted to TIs and PIs.  Lots of wide players have the Trait to run with ball often.  Do yours?  Combine that Trait with a built in PI to a role to Dribble More and you can end up with a player who dribbles a lot, perhaps more than desired.

Always check player traits as well as TIs & PIs .

[Experienced Defender]

There is one more thing: you use the Roam from position PI for 3 out of 4 forward players along with the BME TI, which already encourages greater freedom of movement (besides creative freedom), Such combination can lead to your team losing structure a bit too much. Whenever a tactic contains an excessive amount of something, problems are likely to occur.