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Posted (edited)

Just got absolutely battered by CSKA Moscow and gave up a 3 goal lead:

 

image.png.6c1a5bc3b19d692b8bd58d849480e09a.png

 

My tactic is as follows - close down more on the front two and the two wingers:

 

image.png

Edited by _mxrky
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If you still can see it would be helpful seeing the scouting report of Moscow, my guess would be they came all guns blazing pressing you like crazy and your players because of the instructions tried playing out of it all the time, failing, not searching the transition or the runners to expose their press.

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19 minutes ago, Gdansk said:

If you still can see it would be helpful seeing the scouting report of Moscow, my guess would be they came all guns blazing pressing you like crazy and your players because of the instructions tried playing out of it all the time, failing, not searching the transition or the runners to expose their press.

I turned off playing out from the back after the 1st half. Doesn't even make sense that they press me high with their 532:

image.png.ef56bdbeb0408eee822c71772f3583be.png

Just lost to southampton away as well. I want to be able to press in a 442 but still attack like a 4231 and dominate games. The game seemingly isn't allowing me to do it all. I'm probably going to get sacked

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

I turned off playing out from the back after the 1st half. Doesn't even make sense that they press me high with their 532:

image.png.ef56bdbeb0408eee822c71772f3583be.png

Just lost to southampton away as well. I want to be able to press in a 442 but still attack like a 4231 and dominate games. The game seemingly isn't allowing me to do it all. I'm probably going to get sacked

 

 

 

okay but they have a PF A and TM A combo so they press your CBs 2v2 with the Mezzala  and when you are in their half these guys will chill with your CBs giving them nice transition opportunities when your players lose the ball with their short passing and WBIB. I can understand you want to dominate etc. but being up like that you have to decide if you religiously play one philosophy and live with not optimal results against certain match-ups or going for maximum results and adjusting accordingly.

Since you're in first season I'd assume Southampton still has Hasenhuttl with a 4-4-2 that is very strong in transition as well, so it's easy to see why the same stuff happens. I'd take away WBIB, switch the midfield duties (DLP D, CM S) play FB A or CWB instead of WB A (WB do stupid stuff in this game, I rarely use them anymore) and maybe PF A instead of AF as he gives you somewhat the same threat in transition put isn't just standing around. If you keep short passing and play out of defence I'd look at maybe higher tempo as well but that's something you need to experience and see in the games yourself.

If you want could you upload the savefile? I'd be interested seeing if I can get this squad to win.

Edited by Gdansk
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45 minutes ago, Gdansk said:

okay but they have a PF A and TM A combo so they press your CBs 2v2 with the Mezzala  and when you are in their half these guys will chill with your CBs giving them nice transition opportunities when your players lose the ball with their short passing and WBIB. I can understand you want to dominate etc. but being up like that you have to decide if you religiously play one philosophy and live with not optimal results against certain match-ups or going for maximum results and adjusting accordingly.

Since you're in first season I'd assume Southampton still has Hasenhuttl with a 4-4-2 that is very strong in transition as well, so it's easy to see why the same stuff happens. I'd take away WBIB, switch the midfield duties (DLP D, CM S) play FB A or CWB instead of WB A (WB do stupid stuff in this game, I rarely use them anymore) and maybe PF A instead of AF as he gives you somewhat the same threat in transition put isn't just standing around. If you keep short passing and play out of defence I'd look at maybe higher tempo as well but that's something you need to experience and see in the games yourself.

If you want could you upload the savefile? I'd be interested seeing if I can get this squad to win.

Thank you. I changed the system to a standard 4231 atm. But i did want to do a 442 out of possesssion. One of the issues, I had with it was what level to play my d line and LOE and what mentality to use. I don't know how much my issues are down to my tactic or the personnel. 


Sorry, I don't know how to upload the save file

 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

Thank you. I changed the system to a standard 4231 atm. But i did want to do a 442 out of possesssion. One of the issues, I had with it was what level to play my d line and LOE and what mentality to use. I don't know how much my issues are down to my tactic or the personnel. 


Sorry, I don't know how to upload the save file

 

Go to the SportsInteractive/FM21/games folder and just load the file up on a site like file-upload.net

Edited by Gdansk
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3 hours ago, _mxrky said:

image.png

Judging by your instructions, you are obviously trying to play possession football. if so, here are potential issues:

- 442 as a type of formation is not ideal for such style, although it can be made to work to some degree

- the LB's role is a bit too conservative to offer consistent attacking support to an inside-oriented role such as IW (the overlap left TI may help somewhat, but probably not enough for that particular style)

- In a possession-minded style, DLF on support is a better choice for the deeper striker role than F9

- For a similar reason, I would prefer WM om attack instead of IW on the left wing

- while WBiB is a possession-minded TI, it tends to overcomplicate attacking play in the final third and can sometimes/often actually do more harm than good

- while the attack duty for the RB makes sense, a WB with that duty can prove too risky in a system without a DM (therefore, I would change the WBat into FBat)

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2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Judging by your instructions, you are obviously trying to play possession football. if so, here are potential issues:

- 442 as a type of formation is not ideal for such style, although it can be made to work to some degree

- the LB's role is a bit too conservative to offer consistent attacking support to an inside-oriented role such as IW (the overlap left TI may help somewhat, but probably not enough for that particular style)

- In a possession-minded style, DLF on support is a better choice for the deeper striker role than F9

- For a similar reason, I would prefer WM om attack instead of IW on the left wing

- while WBiB is a possession-minded TI, it tends to overcomplicate attacking play in the final third and can sometimes/often actually do more harm than good

- while the attack duty for the RB makes sense, a WB with that duty can prove too risky in a system without a DM (therefore, I would change the WBat into FBat)

the reason I had the false 9 is because I wanted the player to operate essentially as a number 10 in possession. I was under the impression that the formation merely showed your defensive shape. 

I changed the fb role to wb s.

I changed the fb role to FB AT. If i hack full back on attack, should i also have WM on attack. Also any player instructions that you would suggest. I've never really used the wm role. 

I will try removing work ball into box and see how it affects things. 

I also changed the cm-d to dlp-d and the dlp-s to cm-s. Not sure if that will make much of a difference though

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3 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

I changed the fb role to wb s.

I changed the fb role to FB AT. If i hack full back on attack, should i also have WM on attack

Better post a screenshot of that new tactic, because I don't really understand what you are asking here. I told you to change the LB into WB on support, RB into FB on attack and LM into WM on attack. 

 

5 minutes ago, _mxrky said:

I also changed the cm-d to dlp-d and the dlp-s to cm-s. Not sure if that will make much of a difference though

I did not mention those 2 roles, so I don't know why did you do that?

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1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

Better post a screenshot of that new tactic, because I don't really understand what you are asking here. I told you to change the LB into WB on support, RB into FB on attack and LM into WM on attack. 

 

I did not mention those 2 roles, so I don't know why did you do that?

When I say i changed it, i meant i had already done those things prior to your comment. I.e. the full back attack, wing back support. 

The reason I made the midfield change in roles is because against the press, my players often resorted to booting the ball and i thought having a dlp-d would offer an extra player in the build up phase. 

My tactic is this currently:

image.png.a689be34b5fe6181bf16d9fa2fb0cc00.png

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Posted (edited)

After looking at the save and playing the remaining games a few things

1. You seem to use the standard set pieces, which will rarely work and can make you lose games even if your tactic is totally good enough to overperform. My recommendations would be on defensive corners take away the guys from the posts at the very least, put good headers in the zonal marking line. Attacking corners and free kicks have 3-4 people stay back, 1-2 lurk outside the box. Defending free kicks have your best headers/jumpers in the zonal marking, especially cover the far post. Edit: these aren't meant to be superb set piece instructions but they help you avoid stupid goals from opponent's set pieces or getting overrun after your own.

2. I think you didn't use OIs, marking and pressing a good shooting CM can be the difference between draw and win in a game you easily dominate.

3. I'd recommend using match preparation training, at worst it's placebo but it won't hurt and I go mad when I didn't put defensive corners and then concede one.

4. You focused heavily on possession football in your tactic, if you want to push that through as your system maybe have to life with less than ideal results but if you are happy to go away from it until you have a better team I'd go for more quick transition football since you have like 5-6 offensive wingers and strikers with 15+ Acc and Pace.

20210606034200_1.thumb.jpg.b614fb9824f6ce61dd1548680dd00080.jpg

I built this tactic, I kept in mind that you wanted to have 4-4-2 against the ball and more of a 4-2-3-1 in possession while trying to get as many runners into it as possible. If you don't like double A sides you could ofc turn that down, but the Enganche is reliant on people running around him so wanted something more adventurous than a FB S there and I don't trust a WB S in this game, WB Au with some PIs would be my other choice.

Edited by Gdansk
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5 minutes ago, Gdansk said:

After looking at the save and playing the remaining games a few things

1. You seem to use the standard set pieces, which will rarely work and can make you lose games even if your tactic is totally good enough to overperform. My recommendations would be on defensive corners take away the guys from the posts at the very least, put good headers in the zonal marking line. Attacking corners and free kicks have 3-4 people stay back, 1-2 lurk outside the box. Defending free kicks have your best headers/jumpers in the zonal marking, especially cover the far post.

2. I think you didn't use OIs, marking and pressing a good shooting CM can be the difference between draw and win in a game you easily dominate.

3. I'd recommend using match preparation training, at worst it's placebo but it won't hurt and I go mad when I didn't put defensive corners and then concede one.

4. You focused heavily on possession football in your tactic, if you want to push that through as your system maybe have to life with less than ideal results but if you are happy to go away from it until you have a better team I'd go for more quick transition football since you have like 5-6 offensive wingers and strikers with 15+ Acc and Pace.

20210606034200_1.thumb.jpg.b614fb9824f6ce61dd1548680dd00080.jpg

I built this tactic, I kept in mind that you wanted to have 4-4-2 against the ball and more of a 4-2-3-1 in possession while trying to get as many runners into it as possible. If you don't like double A sides you could ofc turn that down, but the Enganche is reliant on people running around him so wanted something more adventurous than a FB S there and I don't trust a WB S in this game, WB Au with some PIs would be my other choice.

Thank you for the help. I'm 1 game away from finishing the season and I may get sacked. If not, hopefully I can implement something similar to your tactic in the next season 

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So my new tactic is now:

image.png.368469c6c54c8e810f163aa2d3f0c7e0.png

 

The tactic is very effective in home games:

image.thumb.png.07a0136875ca519dfe55cebfaba3ea89.png

 

But in away games:

image.thumb.png.230c7fe96f5721a0d8c68465aa743e4f.png

 

How can I edit/ change the tactic so that i can start winning away games? All my opponents shots just seem to fly in and they  outperform their xg. I've had higher xg in every game but one away from home, yet the record is terrible. Am i simply getting unlucky or is something wrong with the tactic?

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