EURO 2020(1?) Football forum average draft - first knockout round - matches 3 and 5

[GunmaN1905]

                                                                                 Match 3

                                    Sano                                                                           Darius1998

                                                                                 Match 5

                                  Marius_R                                                                     Baptista_8

First knockout phase, matches 1 and 2.
Polls are active for ~24h, give or take.

Everyone is welcome to vote, not just players participating in the draft!
Would also be nice if you could write a sentence or two to explain why you voted the way you did.

Vote for each matchup, don't bottle it.

@Darius1998@Barry Cartman@Jorg@bestbrother@Baptista_8@Hazzaj@grff@Marius_R@PaulHartman71@Kawee@The Golden boy@Butts@Haguey@Citizen Kane@Yuko @sjg11@adhikapp@managerdude_66@SRL88@Sano@trueblue.85@SouthCoastRed@MaxeyN17@Harryseaess@Scott1892@Crispypaul@XuluBak

Edited June 4, 2021 by GunmaN1905

[GunmaN1905]

0 posts, draft hype has died.

[adhikapp]

Had a really hard time picking Darius over Sano, but I had to make a vote

[Marius_R]

29 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

0 posts, draft hype has died.

That's because you've mocked my Keown-Simic partnership. 

[Darius1998]

For whatever reason, it's also showing that 11 people have voted even though there are 12 votes.

[Gizzy]

Where's match 4?

[Marius_R]

Citizen Kane bottled it with his swap and it got postponed for tomorrow. 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Marius_R

[Hazzaj]

both races have tightened up a lot since I voted, don't rlly have much more to add from before other than you could make a good case for either team in both matches winning out on the day and that I'm glad I wasn't drawn against any of them

[Yuko]

So, voting reasoning time I suppose.

 

I opted for Darius over Sano, even if I think that Sano has a better group overall.

Thing is, I see Sano as a team that thrives on possession and would struggle against teams that will hit them on the counter due to not having adequate defensive levels in the middle. Skriniar is a top man marker, but he's also rather slow. He'd be in charge of Lewandowski as per the formation charts as well, which leaves Popescu to mark Klinsmann. Having guys like Sinissa and Chivu being able to lob the ball from defense to attack helps a lot, plus you can count on Van Bommel to push the ball up as well. 
Sano's team needs to play to the wings if they want to go for the win as the MCs will be smothered by Darius' team, but I just don't see how he can force the play to go out wide. Going against Scirea-Chivu-Dasayev won't be an easy task, even for Muller. 

If I was only looking at the names, I'd go for Sano, but I think he is now facing one of the worst possible matchups for his side. Anyone's game, but I just visualize this as a game where Darius' side would prevail after a bloodbath.


Similar to the above, I went with Marius as his side seems competent enough to break the possession style that Baptista's team would employ. There's also what I see as an inconsistency in playing style, as 2 wingers and a striker should require at least 2 midfielders to step into the box, I can only see Balakov actively seeking this but while Kimmich and Xavi are capable, they'd be neutralized by De Rossi & Stankovic imo. Marius has a very weak CB duo, but I just don't see how Baptista's team could take full advantage. Then you have the situation where you have guys like Robben, Pires, Alba and Petrescu attacking you on the counter. There's Pepe, but he can only break one leg at a time and you're looking at at least 3 pairs coming at you each time. 
Both sides can score from long range as well (Stankovic, Eriksen & De Rossi on one end and Balakov, Van Persie, Bale, Xavi, R Rodiguez & Zambrotta on the other) so that adds an element of surprise for either side, with a slight advantage to Baptista's side. 

It's a tough one to call, but I think Marius edges out due to Baptista not having the tools to take advantage of the opposition bad CB pairing and having more cynical players.

[Sano]

10 hours ago, Yuko said:

So, voting reasoning time I suppose.

 

I opted for Darius over Sano, even if I think that Sano has a better group overall.

Thing is, I see Sano as a team that thrives on possession and would struggle against teams that will hit them on the counter due to not having adequate defensive levels in the middle. Skriniar is a top man marker, but he's also rather slow. He'd be in charge of Lewandowski as per the formation charts as well, which leaves Popescu to mark Klinsmann. Having guys like Sinissa and Chivu being able to lob the ball from defense to attack helps a lot, plus you can count on Van Bommel to push the ball up as well. 
Sano's team needs to play to the wings if they want to go for the win as the MCs will be smothered by Darius' team, but I just don't see how he can force the play to go out wide. Going against Scirea-Chivu-Dasayev won't be an easy task, even for Muller. 

If I was only looking at the names, I'd go for Sano, but I think he is now facing one of the worst possible matchups for his side. Anyone's game, but I just visualize this as a game where Darius' side would prevail after a bloodbath.

What you're omitting is that Mihajlovic is not a natural left back (only played there briefly in his career) and is up against Figo, one of the best European wingers of all time. While Joao Pinto was a defensive full back so nothing attacking coming from that side. The diamond in midfield also means Heintze and Thuram can advance unopposed so Mihajlovic and Pinto would be caught in 2 v 1 situations frequently. Zahovič was known for his goal scoring ability so would be able to support Müller up front matching up to the center backs.

Defensively you've got one of the best right backs in history in Thuram who was also natural in a central position. Darius playing without wingers means he can sit more centrally which creates another 2 v 1 against Klinsmann.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Sano

[Marius_R]

I thought Keown would've had a better reputation.  

[Butts]

1 hour ago, Marius_R said:

I thought Keown would've had a better reputation.  

I found this out in the last draft mate 

[Yuko]

3 hours ago, Sano said:

What you're omitting is that Mihajlovic is not a natural left back (only played there briefly in his career) and is up against Figo, one of the best European wingers of all time. While Joao Pinto was a defensive full back so nothing attacking coming from that side. The diamond in midfield also means Heintze and Thuram can advance unopposed so Mihajlovic and Pinto would be caught in 2 v 1 situations frequently. Zahovič was known for his goal scoring ability so would be able to support Müller up front matching up to the center backs.

Defensively you've got one of the best right backs in history in Thuram who was also natural in a central position. Darius playing without wingers means he can sit more centrally which creates another 2 v 1 against Klinsmann.

Not omitting it, your wings would cause too much trouble on both sides. It's just that your team seems focused on building from the middle. It's honestly a coin toss situation here. 

 

Just for the record, the formations I like the most in football are 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2 diamond(or 4-3-1-2) and 3-5-2. You are both using formations I like, so that doesn't affect how I look at this.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Yuko

[GunmaN1905]

Sano - Darius

I still think this matchup shouldn't have happened, Darius should've won his group.

Been sitting here for 5 minutes and I just keep switching opinions, but I went with Sano.

Never really seen full games from Dasayev, but historians are saying he was a top keeper.
But so was Peruzzi. Much like Toldo, he'd also be the #1 anywhere else except for Italy and Germany during his peak years.
Fantastic keeper.

CB's are on Darius side. And by some margin due to Scirea.
But Mihajlović isn't a left-back. Should've swapped him and Chivu, so that when they defend Chivu covers width.
Siniša was a mezzala turned into a defender by Eriksson. He was never a left-back or left-winger. He played left-midfield in formations with wing-backs and 3CBs.
He's probably the slowest player on the pitch. Best set-piece taker of all time, but not a FB.

Van Bommel was a quality player, but not top class. Neither was Guardiola.
Neeskens and Tigana were. So that's a close duo comparison.

Bobby Robson was also a way better coach than player. And looking at all the historic info, he was an attacking midfielder or even a winger.
And he wasn't top class.
Then you have Prosinečki, absolute class and better than Zahovič, but he's just not running to cover anything. You want Prosinečki, you need more cover.

Since Robson was more of a winger, he should be compared to either wing from Sano's team.
And those two he has even have a case for greatest European wingers of all time. Džajić was definitely the greatest winger of his time and Figo was up there during his peak.

Lewandowski-Muller is a comparison we've everything about over the past months and we can call it even.
Klinsmann is an extra top class striker in Darius' favor, but again, balance.

If you look at that formation, the LB-LCM-AM side would have problems with way weaker teams.
On the other hand, as I already said Darius has a way better CB duo and a better keeper.

But as I always did in these games, I have to go with more natual team.

This could've easily been a finals matchup, but one of those unlucky draws.
Amazing team by Darius considering it's hist first draft, really tough choice for me.

 

 

Marius - Baptista

I'd vote for either team from first matchup against either of these.
But here we are, what can you do.

Šimić will ride again.  Questionable keepers and defenses, good midfields and really close attacks.
Another one that could've gone either way.

In the end, Ricardo Rodriguez was the difference. Weakest link out of all 8 defenders.
Balakov was class, but he's also the weakest midfielder of the bunch.

But the voting was already +4 for Marius, so it's not like I decided this one.

[Darius1998]

5 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Bobby Robson was also a way better coach than player

Yeah but I have Bryan Robson. Now I wonder if not putting the full names has confused some other people too.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Darius1998

[GunmaN1905]

2 minutes ago, Darius1998 said:

Yeah but I have Bryan Robson. Now I wonder if not putting the full names has confused some other people too.

Oh god.

Absolute shambles.

Could he run a lot and cover the left side?

Edited June 5, 2021 by GunmaN1905

[Darius1998]

4 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Could he run a lot and cover the left side?

He was a box to box midfielder but also scored more goals than Tigana.

Gerrard was probably the closest one of the 2000s English midfielders in terms of playstyle.

[Marius_R]

29 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Šimić will ride again. 

[GunmaN1905]

First of all, I'm really disappointed that we have only 19 votes.

At least all the participants could've had the decency to vote...

 

Again, it's probably the most difficult decision I've had to make for as long as I remember voting in these drafts, but I have to go with Sano, despite the Robson mix-up.
This could've easily been the final and Darius is the probably the best newcomer we've ever had in the draft.

I still don't understand how Marius won your group.

With that being said @Sano and @Marius_R advance to the quarter-finals.

You've got the option to swap 2 players if you wish. Do it within the next 24h.

[Darius1998]

It's been great fun. Congrats @Sano!

[Marius_R]

25 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

 

This could've easily been the final and Darius is the probably the best newcomer we've ever had in the draft. 

I still don't understand how Marius won your group.

With that being said @Sano and @Marius_R advance to the quarter-finals.

You've got the option to swap 2 players if you wish. Do it within the next 24h.

Hey, I did pretty well in the previous draft. 

And you don't need a good defence as long as you ourscore your opponents. 

[Sano]

7 minutes ago, Darius1998 said:

It's been great fun. Congrats @Sano!

Thanks, you had a pretty great team and as Yuko said, possibly the most difficult match up formation wise. Genuinly thought I wouldn't make it through. You're also the most difficult opponent to steal players from because our formations are so different 

[Darius1998]

6 minutes ago, Sano said:

Thanks, you had a pretty great team and as Yuko said, possibly the most difficult match up formation wise. Genuinly thought I wouldn't make it through. You're also the most difficult opponent to steal players from because our formations are so different 

I think you could take one of the midfielders but that looks about it really.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Darius1998

[Baptista_8]

Enjoyed this one thoroughly, congrats @Marius_R 👍

[Marius_R]

17 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

Enjoyed this one thoroughly, congrats @Marius_R 👍

Thanks, you were one of the 2nd placed teams I'd have wanted to avoid because it could've gone either way, especially with that midfield. 

As much as I like Xavi and Zambrotta from your team, I'll swap Dario Simic for Paul McGrath and Bonner for Boruc.  

I don't know why I had it in my mind that McGrath was Scottish.