Fast Transitions and Quick Breaks

[Strikerir1]

I've made some threads before explaining what kind of football I want to see, but I think I've failed to get across what I really want, I usually call it counter attacking football, but thats not really what I mean, I don't want to play defensively solid trying to see out games by being pinned back and hitting back for a 1-0 win. What I really want is to see some quick Transitions going from back to front quickly, from midfield to front quickly and from front to goal quickly, but I've been failing miserable. I'm going to give a few pointers so you guys can help me. 

1- I play with decent sides, by decent sides I mean premier division sides who have a decent budget so I can mould the team to play the style I want, so imagine I have the perfect team for that. 

2- I'm not looking for 20- goals conceded that would be just a bonus, as im not looking to smash goal records again that would be a bonus. Rather im looking for something balenced with the use of those quick Transitions 

3- I don't have a favorite formation anything will do so feel free to give me blueprints that I can analyze and understand how you guys set up for those quick Transitions. You could also give me some concepts some ideas etc. Thank you in advance, Sorry if the English is not perfect and if it's a bit long as I usually have a lot to say :). 

[Prolix]

 

[Zemahh]

31 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

I've made some threads before explaining what kind of football I want to see, but I think I've failed to get across what I really want, I usually call it counter attacking football, but thats not really what I mean, I don't want to play defensively solid trying to see out games by being pinned back and hitting back for a 1-0 win. What I really want is to see some quick Transitions going from back to front quickly, from midfield to front quickly and from front to goal quickly, but I've been failing miserable. I'm going to give a few pointers so you guys can help me.

  Sounds like you're looking for:

• High mentality (quick decision-making, plenty of creative freedom)
• Aggressive mid block (give yourself some space to attack into, win ball back aggressively)
• At least 2-3 Attack duties (early runners into space)

Personally, a 4-4-2 is my favourite for this kind of style. I use it often myself, at least until I reach the top level and start facing defensive formations more often (when counter-attacking football can start falling flat).

Maybe something like this:

DLFat AFat

IWsu CMde BBMsu Wsu

FBat CDde BPDde FBsu

• Attacking
• Slightly Shorter Passing
• Counter
• Higher Defensive Line
• Tackle Harder

48 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

I play with decent sides, by decent sides I mean premier division sides who have a decent budget so I can mould the team to play the style I want, so imagine I have the perfect team for that.

For sides expected to win most of their matches, I'd also add the following:

• Counter-Press
• More Urgent Closing Down

That would be a more sensible version. For a full-on balls-to-the-wall system, I'd even go as far as deploying two Advanced Forwards and two Wingers on Attack, but that's when you can start getting into the "exploit tactic" territory. For some reason, such aggressive 4-4-2s have always worked wonders for me.

That'd be my personal approach to quick transitions, just throwing some ideas out there.

[Strikerir1]

6 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

  Sounds like you're looking for:

• High mentality (quick decision-making, plenty of creative freedom)
• Aggressive mid block (give yourself some space to attack into, win ball back aggressively)
• At least 2-3 Attack duties (early runners into space)

Personally, a 4-4-2 is my favourite for this kind of style. I use it often myself, at least until I reach the top level and start facing defensive formations more often (when counter-attacking football can start falling flat).

Maybe something like this:

DLFat AFat

IWsu CMde BBMsu Wsu

FBat CDde BPDde FBsu

• Attacking
• Slightly Shorter Passing
• Counter
• Higher Defensive Line
• Tackle Harder

For sides expected to win most of their matches, I'd also add the following:

• Counter-Press
• More Urgent Closing Down

That would be a more sensible version. For a full-on balls-to-the-wall system, I'd even go as far as deploying two Advanced Forwards and two Wingers on Attack, but that's when you can start getting into the "exploit tactic" territory. For some reason, such aggressive 4-4-2s have always worked wonders for me.

That'd be my personal approach to quick transitions, just throwing some ideas out there.

Thank You for the reply, that was the sort of reply I was looking for, that makes a lot of sense I will try and design systems that follow those rules or maybe even test that system you've designed 

[Strikerir1]

A good example of what I'm trying to achieve is Solskjaer man utd, Mourinho's Madrid/Inter etc

[silentwars]

5 hours ago, Zemahh said:

  Sounds like you're looking for:

• High mentality (quick decision-making, plenty of creative freedom)
• Aggressive mid block (give yourself some space to attack into, win ball back aggressively)
• At least 2-3 Attack duties (early runners into space)

Personally, a 4-4-2 is my favourite for this kind of style. I use it often myself, at least until I reach the top level and start facing defensive formations more often (when counter-attacking football can start falling flat).

Maybe something like this:

DLFat AFat

IWsu CMde BBMsu Wsu

FBat CDde BPDde FBsu

• Attacking
• Slightly Shorter Passing
• Counter
• Higher Defensive Line
• Tackle Harder

For sides expected to win most of their matches, I'd also add the following:

• Counter-Press
• More Urgent Closing Down

That would be a more sensible version. For a full-on balls-to-the-wall system, I'd even go as far as deploying two Advanced Forwards and two Wingers on Attack, but that's when you can start getting into the "exploit tactic" territory. For some reason, such aggressive 4-4-2s have always worked wonders for me.

That'd be my personal approach to quick transitions, just throwing some ideas out there.

Would disagree in regards to the shorter passing TI, if you want to transition the ball up the field quickly you need to be playing more direct and passing the ball into space ... otherwise he could end up with a possession oriented system.

I'd also add:

• Pass into space
• Run at defence
• Higher tempo
• Distribute quickly

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by silentwars

[CARRERA]

50 minutes ago, silentwars said:

Would disagree in regards to the shorter passing TI, if you want to transition the ball up the field quickly

The primary factor on how quick your players will transition from back to front is the direction of the pass, not necessarily the length (evenhough it can compliment that). Wether a player decides if the ball is moved forward or sideways/backwards is determined by the mentality. On higher mentalities players are more inclined to make decisions where the ball is moved forward.

so playing a quick transitioning style with short passes can work quite well without dither in no-nonsense possession

[silentwars]

4 hours ago, CARRERA said:

The primary factor on how quick your players will transition from back to front is the direction of the pass, not necessarily the length (evenhough it can compliment that). Wether a player decides if the ball is moved forward or sideways/backwards is determined by the mentality. On higher mentalities players are more inclined to make decisions where the ball is moved forward.

so playing a quick transitioning style with short passes can work quite well without dither in no-nonsense possession

This isn't how I'd personally play this system.

For example even if your player plays a pass forward if it's shorter it gives more time to your opponents players to get back into position whereas with a more direct approach the oppostion have less time to get back which means there is more space to exploit. 

[Strikerir1]

1 hour ago, silentwars said:

This isn't how I'd personally play this system.

For example even if your player plays a pass forward if it's shorter it gives more time to your opponents players to get back into position whereas with a more direct approach the oppostion have less time to get back which means there is more space to exploit. 

Feel free I'd be very interested on how you'd set up be creative I'm all for that, different approach was what I was looking here

[silentwars]

3 minutes ago, Strikerir1 said:

Feel free I'd be very interested on how you'd set up be creative I'm all for that, different approach was what I was looking here

What team are you managing?

[Strikerir1]

21 minutes ago, silentwars said:

What team are you managing?

I'm currently doing a fc united of Manchester save but that's going in a completely different direction, I'm doing a test save with spurs, but forget that, be creative imagine I have the perfect team I have 10 out of 10 in all positions and I have depth in all positions so any formation works, but if you still want a team to base around, man utd they are playing this style the most at least that I can remember or Leeds but yeah. 

[Zemahh]

8 hours ago, silentwars said:

Would disagree in regards to the shorter passing TI, if you want to transition the ball up the field quickly you need to be playing more direct and passing the ball into space ... otherwise he could end up with a possession oriented system.

Attacking mentality comes with Slightly More Direct Passing and Higher Tempo by default, so if you don't tone it down a notch, you could end up with too much hoofing. In a bottom heavy system like 4-4-2, midfielders and fullbacks need to be given enough time to get up in support, otherwise strikers can end up getting isolated easily. The idea is to get up the pitch with quick one-two's as a unit, not necessarily to get the ball to strikers as fast as possible, which would be the case in more conservative counter-attacking systems (where you don't want to commit too many men forward in order to stay defensively solid).

Here's my thought process behind Slightly Shorter Passing in more detail.

[silentwars]

11 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

Attacking mentality comes with Slightly More Direct Passing and Higher Tempo by default, so if you don't tone it down a notch, you could end up with too much hoofing. In a bottom heavy system like 4-4-2, midfielders and fullbacks need to be given enough time to get up in support, otherwise strikers can end up getting isolated easily. The idea is to get up the pitch with quick one-two's as a unit, not necessarily to get the ball to strikers as fast as possible, which would be the case in more conservative counter-attacking systems (where you don't want to commit too many men forward in order to stay defensively solid).

Here's my thought process behind Slightly Shorter Passing in more detail.

Yes I agree slightly more direct is fine, it's just the above post was recommending shorter passing which I don't personally believe is the most effective way of transitioning with speed. However, it's just my take/preference with this system, to be honest it's largely down to the players at your disposal as to what will work best. 

I will have a look through your post now 

[Zemahh]

10 minutes ago, silentwars said:

Yes I agree slightly more direct is fine, it's just the above post was recommending shorter passing which I don't personally believe is the most effective way of transitioning with speed. However, it's just my take/preference with this system, to be honest it's largely down to the players at your disposal as to what will work best.

Definitely more than one way to skin a cat, so I'm always up for discussion. 

Personally, I tend to group my passing directness and tempo up in order to achieve different playing styles. The idea came from one of Rashidi's streams, when he was talking about breaking down stubborn defences.

• Short Passing + High Tempo = quick one-two's
• Short Passing + Low Tempo = prioritize keeping possession
• Direct Passing + High Tempo = quick long balls
• Direct Passing + Low Tempo = take time on ball, make direct switches of play

I also like to take opposition into account. I don't like things to be rushed against opposition that only sits back or too many touches to be taken when they're pressing high, so I'll adapt accordingly.

[Tsuru]

4 horas atrás, Zemahh disse:

Direct Passing + High Tempo = quick long balls

Did you use this combination after the last updates? I noticed that with it my team is now simple clearing the ball away - in fact, it is clearing the ball with any of the "fast transition" TIs, i.e., More Direct Passing, Higher Tempo and Counter Attack, despite the formation/roles/duties I use (and even with just one of those Tis). But maybe this is a team issue or something like that, maybe my players are not dealing well with the pressure against stronger teams.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Tsuru

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, silentwars said:

Would disagree in regards to the shorter passing TI, if you want to transition the ball up the field quickly you need to be playing more direct and passing the ball into space... otherwise he could end up with a possession oriented system

Not necessarily if you play on the Attacking mentality, as it already encourages a faster, riskier and more forward-minded passing style  

[Zemahh]

14 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Did you use this combination after the last updates?

No, I use it very rarely. Maybe on a few occasions in the last few minutes when I was chasing the game and decided to throw everyone forward, but apart from that it just doesn't seem like a very consistent way of creating chances to me. Sooner or later opposition starts sitting back and then it just stops making sense to rush things that much.

I'd say that kind of style is very dependent on A) opposition throwing enough men forward and thus leaving you space those very direct transitions can expose and B) having enough men in advanced areas yourself, offering close support to your strikers.

[Strikerir1]

16 minutes ago, Zemahh said:

No, I use it very rarely. Maybe on a few occasions in the last few minutes when I was chasing the game and decided to throw everyone forward, but apart from that it just doesn't seem like a very consistent way of creating chances to me. Sooner or later opposition starts sitting back and then it just stops making sense to rush things that much.

I'd say that kind of style is very dependent on A) opposition throwing enough men forward and thus leaving you space those very direct transitions can expose and B) having enough men in advanced areas yourself, offering close support to your strikers.

Zemah Thanks for linking your thread I've been reading it what a great read and gave me some cool ideas to test out

[Tsuru]

2 horas atrás, Zemahh disse:

No, I use it very rarely. Maybe on a few occasions in the last few minutes when I was chasing the game and decided to throw everyone forward, but apart from that it just doesn't seem like a very consistent way of creating chances to me. Sooner or later opposition starts sitting back and then it just stops making sense to rush things that much.

I'd say that kind of style is very dependent on A) opposition throwing enough men forward and thus leaving you space those very direct transitions can expose and B) having enough men in advanced areas yourself, offering close support to your strikers.

Yes, it makes sense, I was combining this fast/quick transition instructions with Lower LOE and the result was a team completely stuck on its own half, hoofing the ball randomly around. I need to try other approaches.

[Silver Sweeper]

On 01/06/2021 at 16:39, Strikerir1 said:

What I really want is to see some quick Transitions going from back to front quickly, from midfield to front quickly and from front to goal quickly

Quick transitions from front to back quickly has been amongst the key principles of my recent efforts with RB Leipzig, and I was fairly successful in the first season too, winning the Bundesliga... not with defensive football but with fast aggressive football played on the front foot.  My approach was to combine higher tempos with narrow, top heavy formations as I wanted bodies forward to receive those quick vertical passes and to overload/isolate the opposition defence.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Silver Sweeper