Jorgen Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 This is about FM2018, but I hope to find out if this is happening to other people with newer games too. And if this happens only with games that loaded extra editor files, or with vanilla games too. I might have posted this long ago already in a bug topic, but now I have a lot more data and an indepth look at this. In my FM2018 savegame, I play a longterm save, close to 2100 right now. I have selected 9 playable leagues: The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania. I have loaded all possible playable leagues from these nations. I use Claassen's extra leagues and cups and some Sortitoutsi files too. When I write about 9+16, I mean "teams from my 9 selected nations + the 16 top teams from other leagues"These 9 nations are the ones mentioned above. Those 16 teams are: Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Inter, Juventus, Milan, Napoli, Barça, Atlético, Real, Sevilla, PSG and Benfica The problem: FM2018: Almost every team in a non-selected league is without a manager. There are only 16 teams who do attract managers. In my 9 nations most teams find new managers. They get high reputation staff and when someone retires, finds a new job, or is fired, they will put out a job offering and find a new man to lead them. As far as I can see, that works as it should. It starts being a problem in every other league in the world. Only clubs with a very high reputation will attract managers and win European leagues. Every other team will not. What have I found out so far: A look at the leagues and clubs: I first looked at England. In the Premier League and Championship - together - are only 6 teams that attract managers. These are the topteams ofcourse: Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham. All other clubs are without a manager for 70 or 80 seasons in a row. There are teams that have only their original manager for a few years, like Everton and Birmingham, or had no manager at all, because there was a job opening at the start, like Aston Villa I have looked at other big leagues too: Spain: only Atlético, Barcelona, Real Madrid and SevillaItaly: only Inter, Juventus, Milan and NapoliFrance: only PSG So clubs like Lyon, Marseille, Monaco, Lazio, and Roma will not attract managers. Ever.Strange exception: Inter had managers, but after it's last one quited his job in 2081, there were no new managers attracted After that, I checked the smaller nations, which have topteams, like Belgium, Switzerland, Scotland, Turkey, Greece, Ukraine and Russia. All these leagues are without managers. They never attract even one. So Anderlecht, Basel, Celtic, Galatasaray, Olympiakos, Shakhtar and Zenit are without anyone leading them. All other teams in these leagues too. There is only one exception to this in my game and that is the Portuguese league. In Portugal every team is without manager too, except Benfica. They are attracting managers like the other bigteams and my selected nations. Porto has a unique situation too: they attracted one new manager, and after his departure, not anymore. A look at the news items: If I win a European match from such a team, I often get a strange news item saying that "Basel/Celtic/Team X still was in shock after the leaving of manager Y and now has a loss to add to that too" Would any team in the world, that is without a manager for 30, 40, or 80 years, still remember him and is still not over his/her departure?? I think not. So the game not only does not attract new managers, but also this newsitem is bugged. It could be that a team struggles to find someone. That they even are unable to find a interim manager, but after decades, they will not be shocked anymore. A look at the managers: After this, I checked the amount of managers, using Genie Scout. There is something quite wrong with the managers in my savegame. Around 75% of them, or even more are from those 9 nations. I used Genie Scout to view the 50 highest home reputation managers: 40 out of 50 are from those 9 nations. I have checked again, now viewing the 100 managers with the highest world reputations. 76 out of 100 are from those 9 nations. It appears that the other nations are not producing so many good managers. Why? Those managers will work mostly at my nine leagues, or at the 16 teams mentioned above. A look at the Champions League and Europa League: Champions League: In all those seasons, all winners, and all runners-up came from my 9 nations, or from the 16 teams with managers. No exceptions. Though a decent amount of usual suspects and new winners emerged through the years, it always where clubs from these 9+16 Europa League: here I see exactly the same as in the Champions League: every winner, each runner-up is from this pool of 9+16 clubs. The Europa League has 2 unique exceptions however. In the first few season Lille (from France) and Porto (from Portugal) reached the final and lost. Both teams where still having their managers at that time. Lille had their original manager, Porto their unique second one. After these 2 exeptions all finals were with the 9+16 A look at the domestic leagues: In France, PSG won the league more than 70 times in a row. Only Monaco managed to get 3 title wins in the first few years. After that only PSG In Italy almost all league wins are divided between Napoli and Juventus, except for again the first few years where Milan and Inter won only a few. In Spain the titles are divided between Real (3/4) and Barça (1/4). Only Atlético wins ones in a while In England, all titles go to city (3/4) and United (1/4). Only Spurs wins ones in a while Smaller nations with no managers at all are seeing big teams winning often too, or are seeing a bit more variety of the league wins. Conclusion: Though my savegame is lots of fun and the world changed very organicly, there is still a very big problem concerning managers. The teams buy and sell, they play their European matches, but it is strange none of these teams have a manager and will not attract one. I realise that this is an older game, and I have loaded lots of extra files, so I hope that the readers of this topic will check their long term saves too. Do you use the vanilla database of FM21 with no editor files? Do you use the official winter transfer update database? Did you load editor files? Or changed anything else? Still playing an older game like me? Please check your game for me if you have a bit of spare time left. I hope this is just a problem concerning older FM-games. If not, I hope this is something SI has allready fixed, or can still fix for future games. Dear people at SI, even when this is an older game, I still hope you are happy with finding this out and I hope it helps for when creating newer games. thanks for reading everyone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorgen Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 (edited) I will use this post for a summary of the reactions I might get. FM21: On another forum, someone that plays FM21 with every big league loaded, checked the smaller leagues for me. Racing Genk (Belgium) and Red Bull Salzburg (Austria) do not attract managers. This might be normal behaviour, according to Edited June 5, 2021 by Jorgen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tig212 Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 On 01/06/2021 at 14:21, Jorgen said: This is about FM2018, but I hope to find out if this is happening to other people with newer games too. And if this happens only with games that loaded extra editor files, or with vanilla games too. I might have posted this long ago already in a bug topic, but now I have a lot more data and an indepth look at this. In my FM2018 savegame, I play a longterm save, close to 2100 right now. I have selected 9 playable leagues: The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria and Romania. I have loaded all possible playable leagues from these nations. I use Claassen's extra leagues and cups and some Sortitoutsi files too. When I write about 9+16, I mean "teams from my 9 selected nations + the 16 top teams from other leagues"These 9 nations are the ones mentioned above. Those 16 teams are: Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United, Liverpool, Spurs, Inter, Juventus, Milan, Napoli, Barça, Atlético, Real, Sevilla, PSG and Benfica The problem: FM2018: Almost every team in a non-selected league is without a manager. There are only 16 teams who do attract managers. In my 9 nations most teams find new managers. They get high reputation staff and when someone retires, finds a new job, or is fired, they will put out a job offering and find a new man to lead them. As far as I can see, that works as it should. It starts being a problem in every other league in the world. Only clubs with a very high reputation will attract managers and win European leagues. Every other team will not. What have I found out so far: A look at the leagues and clubs: I first looked at England. In the Premier League and Championship - together - are only 6 teams that attract managers. These are the topteams ofcourse: Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham. All other clubs are without a manager for 70 or 80 seasons in a row. There are teams that have only their original manager for a few years, like Everton and Birmingham, or had no manager at all, because there was a job opening at the start, like Aston Villa I have looked at other big leagues too: Spain: only Atlético, Barcelona, Real Madrid and SevillaItaly: only Inter, Juventus, Milan and NapoliFrance: only PSG So clubs like Lyon, Marseille, Monaco, Lazio, and Roma will not attract managers. Ever.Strange exception: Inter had managers, but after it's last one quited his job in 2081, there were no new managers attracted After that, I checked the smaller nations, which have topteams, like Belgium, Switzerland, Scotland, Turkey, Greece, Ukraine and Russia. All these leagues are without managers. They never attract even one. So Anderlecht, Basel, Celtic, Galatasaray, Olympiakos, Shakhtar and Zenit are without anyone leading them. All other teams in these leagues too. There is only one exception to this in my game and that is the Portuguese league. In Portugal every team is without manager too, except Benfica. They are attracting managers like the other bigteams and my selected nations. Porto has a unique situation too: they attracted one new manager, and after his departure, not anymore. A look at the news items: If I win a European match from such a team, I often get a strange news item saying that "Basel/Celtic/Team X still was in shock after the leaving of manager Y and now has a loss to add to that too" Would any team in the world, that is without a manager for 30, 40, or 80 years, still remember him and is still not over his/her departure?? I think not. So the game not only does not attract new managers, but also this newsitem is bugged. It could be that a team struggles to find someone. That they even are unable to find a interim manager, but after decades, they will not be shocked anymore. A look at the managers: After this, I checked the amount of managers, using Genie Scout. There is something quite wrong with the managers in my savegame. Around 75% of them, or even more are from those 9 nations. I used Genie Scout to view the 50 highest home reputation managers: 40 out of 50 are from those 9 nations. I have checked again, now viewing the 100 managers with the highest world reputations. 76 out of 100 are from those 9 nations. It appears that the other nations are not producing so many good managers. Why? Those managers will work mostly at my nine leagues, or at the 16 teams mentioned above. A look at the Champions League and Europa League: Champions League: In all those seasons, all winners, and all runners-up came from my 9 nations, or from the 16 teams with managers. No exceptions. Though a decent amount of usual suspects and new winners emerged through the years, it always where clubs from these 9+16 Europa League: here I see exactly the same as in the Champions League: every winner, each runner-up is from this pool of 9+16 clubs. The Europa League has 2 unique exceptions however. In the first few season Lille (from France) and Porto (from Portugal) reached the final and lost. Both teams where still having their managers at that time. Lille had their original manager, Porto their unique second one. After these 2 exeptions all finals were with the 9+16 A look at the domestic leagues: In France, PSG won the league more than 70 times in a row. Only Monaco managed to get 3 title wins in the first few years. After that only PSG In Italy almost all league wins are divided between Napoli and Juventus, except for again the first few years where Milan and Inter won only a few. In Spain the titles are divided between Real (3/4) and Barça (1/4). Only Atlético wins ones in a while In England, all titles go to city (3/4) and United (1/4). Only Spurs wins ones in a while Smaller nations with no managers at all are seeing big teams winning often too, or are seeing a bit more variety of the league wins. Conclusion: Though my savegame is lots of fun and the world changed very organicly, there is still a very big problem concerning managers. The teams buy and sell, they play their European matches, but it is strange none of these teams have a manager and will not attract one. I realise that this is an older game, and I have loaded lots of extra files, so I hope that the readers of this topic will check their long term saves too. Do you use the vanilla database of FM21 with no editor files? Do you use the official winter transfer update database? Did you load editor files? Or changed anything else? Still playing an older game like me? Please check your game for me if you have a bit of spare time left. I hope this is just a problem concerning older FM-games. If not, I hope this is something SI has allready fixed, or can still fix for future games. Dear people at SI, even when this is an older game, I still hope you are happy with finding this out and I hope it helps for when creating newer games. thanks for reading everyone I remember someone from SI stating that in View-Only or unloaded leagues only the top teams will rehire managers and not the others so it is working as intended. However I agree that this is unrealistic and needed to be changed ASAP as it just ruins the realism got from playing this game, especially in continental games where you might play games against unloaded teams. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorgen Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 Thank you If that is true, this is very unrealistic And in long term saves it might not be game breaking, but it isn't adding to the experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Luke Hume Posted June 10, 2021 SI Staff Share Posted June 10, 2021 Would recommend logging a feature request here: https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/ Thanks 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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