my 4231 please help

[Novem9]

Things which worked for me in prev editions, not good in FM21  Please help!

I want to play pragmatic and combination football and use pressing in middle / opposite dm zone. (Because as I understood if push opposite team very high, they use bus tactic and I have many shots, but not a goals)

PI - BBM is move into channels

Cheers!

Edited June 1, 2021 by Novem9

[herne79]

Personally I've never been much of a fan of a 4231 that has attack duty players in both the STC and AMC positions.  I'd much rather have an attack / support duty combination there and if I want another attacker I'll give one of my wide men an attack duty.  I find that gives me better attacking options - rather than 2 players both attacking down the same central slot I get a better variety of attacking play which uses different angles of attack.

I'd also be careful about the use of additional tempo.  The Positive mentality already has a decent amount of tempo so do you really need more?  It can be one of those conditional instructions - useful against some teams, less so against others.

[Novem9]

30 минут назад, herne79 сказал:

Personally I've never been much of a fan of a 4231 that has attack duty players in both the STC and AMC positions.  I'd much rather have an attack / support duty combination there and if I want another attacker I'll give one of my wide men an attack duty.  I find that gives me better attacking options - rather than 2 players both attacking down the same central slot I get a better variety of attacking play which uses different angles of attack.

 

I want that both my W players come back in defensive stage, as I remember, support duty allows this?

Is it a good combination?

---------------PF(a)-------------
IW(s) ----- AM(s) ----- W(a)

 

Should I use any PI for AM(s) ?

 

Concerning more tempo - looks like my team create more troubles for opposite side when tempo is higher. Maybe if I use AM(s) it will be changed 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Novem9

[Novem9]

advanced question - is it a good idea to use 'prevent short GK distribution' in current lines?

I use DL +2 and LoE +0 for compactness of course. Does Standart LoE conflict with psGKd ?

[herne79]

44 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I want that both my W players come back in defensive stage, as I remember, support duty allows this?

Anyone can track back regardless of duty, although support duty players can tend to transition sooner.  A player's own work rate will also be a factor.

[Experienced Defender]

7 hours ago, Novem9 said:

 

7 hours ago, Novem9 said:

I want to play pragmatic

If you want to be pragmatic with the tactic, then: 

- Why much higher D-line? Why not just higher (without much)? 

- Why both more urgent pressing and prevent GKD at the same time? Why not just one or the other?

- Why pass into space, especially as a regular instruction? If you want to use the PiS, then better use it as a situational in-match tweak (i,e. only when it clearly makes sense).

Regarding roles... IWB is a nice role, but are you sure your player is good enough to play it properly and safely enough? Have you tried with a simple and less demanding FB on support (which would perfectly fit the setup and tactic as a whole)? 

In case you insist on using the IWB, I would put him on defend duty and then possibly change the DLP's duty into support. In that case, you may also consider the Underlap right TI. 

7 hours ago, Novem9 said:

PI - BBM is move into channels

Why? If you played in the 433DM Wide (a.k.a. 4123 wide) formation, then telling a BBM to move into channels would make more sense (plus would be less risky). But in a 4231, such PI can make him get too much out of position, which can cause problems defensively, given that he is one of the only 2 midfielders. 

If you want someone to move into channels, the AMC would be a lot better and more logical choice. 

[Novem9]

17 часов назад, Experienced Defender сказал:

 

If you want to be pragmatic with the tactic, then: 

- Why much higher D-line? Why not just higher (without much)? 

- Why both more urgent pressing and prevent GKD at the same time? Why not just one or the other?

- Why pass into space, especially as a regular instruction? If you want to use the PiS, then better use it as a situational in-match tweak (i,e. only when it clearly makes sense).

Regarding roles... IWB is a nice role, but are you sure your player is good enough to play it properly and safely enough? Have you tried with a simple and less demanding FB on support (which would perfectly fit the setup and tactic as a whole)? 

In case you insist on using the IWB, I would put him on defend duty and then possibly change the DLP's duty into support. In that case, you may also consider the Underlap right TI. 

Why? If you played in the 433DM Wide (a.k.a. 4123 wide) formation, then telling a BBM to move into channels would make more sense (plus would be less risky). But in a 4231, such PI can make him get too much out of position, which can cause problems defensively, given that he is one of the only 2 midfielders. 

If you want someone to move into channels, the AMC would be a lot better and more logical choice. 

• D-line changed to much higher
• delete prevent GKD
• delete pass into space
• use rb as fb(s)

As first impression, tactic started to make sense now, thank you!  

[silentwars]

What are you defenders like? are they quick enough to play a high line? or intelligent enough to use the offside trap?