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Which one is preffered for U18 players?

 

The reason I ask is because I have a couple of 17y olds who have the fabled 4 solid stars potential. The youth report usually says "is ready for U23 football, would be an important player".

Is it really a higher standard or is the difference minimal? Because U23 is regulary used by first team players. I have 2 high potential strikers in a formation with 2 strikers, but if the places are occupied by first team players for fitness, will they develop?

I don't want to loan them out to league1 teams with mediocre facilities as i have state of the art.

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If they're still only 17, the first question I'd ask is if the quality of u23 coaches is better than those of your 18s when it comes to training youngsters. u23 matches would be of a higher standard but training is still king at that age.

 

 

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I habitually have this issue. If there is a slot for them to start U23 games, I move them up. If they're going to sit on the bench, they'll stay and play in my U18 squad.  In some cases, I'll send the U23 player out on loan to free up a spot for the youth. In practice, my best youths often 'float' between the two squads to cover for injuries and suchlike - with your first team players needing match fitness being an example.

In your case, if your coach (assuming is reliable) is saying he's good for the U23s now, I'd follow that.

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Both Training and playing in matches at a relevant level are important for player development, however for under 18 players Training takes precedence, whilst for 18s and over matches takes precedence.

I stress above "at a relevant level" because ideally you are looking for the "goldilocks" scenario, ie., playing matches which are not too easy and not too tough but just right.  Your coach reports tell you what they are ready for.

So, as these players are still only 17 I'd keep them training in your U18s squad unless their attributes are already developed well enough to be exposed to higher levels of football or if they seem to have stalled in their progression.

TL;DR, if they're progressing well then don't do anything until they turn 18.

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46 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Both Training and playing in matches at a relevant level are important for player development, however for under 18 players Training takes precedence, whilst for 18s and over matches takes precedence.

I stress above "at a relevant level" because ideally you are looking for the "goldilocks" scenario, ie., playing matches which are not too easy and not too tough but just right.  Your coach reports tell you what they are ready for.

So, as these players are still only 17 I'd keep them training in your U18s squad unless their attributes are already developed well enough to be exposed to higher levels of football or if they seem to have stalled in their progression.

TL;DR, if they're progressing well then don't do anything until they turn 18.

So if they say "would be an important part of U23, then I should move them?

 

my U23 doesn not play in a league however (because i started vanarama south and didnt have a b team), i do shedule weekly friendlies

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3 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

So if they say "would be an important part of U23, then I should move them?

 

my U23 doesn not play in a league however (because i started vanarama south and didnt have a b team), i do shedule weekly friendlies

No, as I said above:

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

So, as these players are still only 17 I'd keep them training in your U18s squad unless their attributes are already developed well enough to be exposed to higher levels of football or if they seem to have stalled in their progression.

I'll also add that if your U23s are only playing friendlies I wouldn't put anyone into that squad which you actually want to develop.  Friendly matches are not the same thing as competitive matches and players won't get the same benefits in terms of progression.  If a young player is good enough move them straight from the U18s to your senior squad, giving them game time when you can (easy league matches, some cup games and/or substitute appearances).  Alternatively you could look for loan moves for them to teams where they will be at least a regular starter.

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2 hours ago, herne79 said:

No, as I said above:

I'll also add that if your U23s are only playing friendlies I wouldn't put anyone into that squad which you actually want to develop.  Friendly matches are not the same thing as competitive matches and players won't get the same benefits in terms of progression.  If a young player is good enough move them straight from the U18s to your senior squad, giving them game time when you can (easy league matches, some cup games and/or substitute appearances).  Alternatively you could look for loan moves for them to teams where they will be at least a regular starter.

I"m top half of the premier league, so it's unlikely I"ll get a 17y old that will be good enough right away. Mu current hottest prospect is League 1 material, but I don"t want to send him (or any of my younger than 18players) on loan because a) facilities and b) coaches.

 

But in what I read then the correct course of action would be to either promote them to the first squad and make available for U18, or just leave in the U18?

 

Slightly related, I also just did a first team friendly against a lowball team during the interland break. I used a few youngsters. Is this something that brings benefit?

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If the youngster is really good and has the potential to be a solid first team player, you should get him training and mentoring with the first team straight away. He should be put to always available for ongoing u18 or u23 matches. These high potential young players ability usually exceed youth level very quickly so move them up once they reach like league two level according to your coach.

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2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

I"m top half of the premier league, so it's unlikely I"ll get a 17y old that will be good enough right away. Mu current hottest prospect is League 1 material, but I don"t want to send him (or any of my younger than 18players) on loan because a) facilities and b) coaches.

 

But in what I read then the correct course of action would be to either promote them to the first squad and make available for U18, or just leave in the U18?

 

Slightly related, I also just did a first team friendly against a lowball team during the interland break. I used a few youngsters. Is this something that brings benefit?

You're in the same boat as me then. I've come up from non-league to the Premier League and am now deemed a solid midtable side. I've just got my first intake since having state of the art facilities (and great coaching staff), and they're damn brilliant but not near first team level. I'm surprised your board/the authorities haven't created and U23 side and put you in a league.

One thing I do is loan out my 19 year-olds if they get first team status in Championship sides with good training facilities. I've just had one return who's now on the fringes of my first team squad. I'm still not 100% sure if for the rest of them staying in my training complex and not playing regularly even for the U23s would be better or not.

Question to Herne: how useful are the competitive U23 and U18 fixtures? I habitually win the U23 competitions and come last in the U18 ones (the latter because between about September and March intake I rarely have a full starting XI due to shuffling kids up into the U23s to cover gaps). It seems to me that the U18s still excel in their training despite losing all their matches - does that affect their development at all?

I'd also like to know if it's at all beneficial for youth players to join the 3 or 4 left-behind first teamers for international-break friendlies, or whether a friendly against a league side is better for them than a competitive U18s fixture.

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4 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Question to Herne: how useful are the competitive U23 and U18 fixtures? I habitually win the U23 competitions and come last in the U18 ones (the latter because between about September and March intake I rarely have a full starting XI due to shuffling kids up into the U23s to cover gaps).

They're fine for players at that level.  However if their coach reports (for over 18 players) say they are ready for higher quality matches then put them into your first team squad or loan them out.  If loaning make sure they are going to get plenty of game time ("regular starter" or better).  Of course if no-one wants to take a prospect on loan it's still valid to keep him in the U23 squad.  Some game time is better than no game time after all.  If you have some special under 18s there is no harm in fast tracking them into your senior squad however I'd rarely (if ever) loan out a good under 18 prospect due to the importance of training for under 18 players.

4 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

It seems to me that the U18s still excel in their training despite losing all their matches - does that affect their development at all?

You answered your own question :).  Below the age of 18 training takes precedence for development, so playing in matches - whilst still valid - is of secondary importance.

One thing to bear in mind: there are no hard and fast rules.  Whilst the under/over 18 change is correct, individual players can develop differently, so always keep an eye on how players are developing and make adjustments on an individual basis if required.

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@herne79 what if a player is under 18 and has a poor personality and determination? Do you move him to the senior squad to mentoring or you keep him in the U18 and wait until he's 18 to do that?

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8 hours ago, mikcheck said:

@herne79 what if a player is under 18 and has a poor personality and determination? Do you move him to the senior squad to mentoring or you keep him in the U18 and wait until he's 18 to do that?

Personally I only move an u18 player into my senior squad if he's good enough to be there.

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How about throwing B teams into the mix? I'm currently playing in Portugal with Sporting, and activated the 3rd and 4th tiers which now makes my B team now essential a league club that shares my State of the art facilities. 

My B team now play 2nd div football, which I would assume would be a better level than my u18s and u23s. But after a couple of seasons of sending a select few players to play in the B side the don't really progress, certainly not as much as in the u18s/u23s. 

I've now 'disbanded' the B team and just use it for players ready to be sold/released. 

I now try not to clog up the u18s/u23s. No more than squads of 18 or 20 in either. 

It's now become the most interesting part of the game. Long gone are the days where you could just whack a 17 into the first teams and watch him rocket. You really have to think about their pathway and development. 

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8 hours ago, jozza800 said:

How about throwing B teams into the mix? I'm currently playing in Portugal with Sporting, and activated the 3rd and 4th tiers which now makes my B team now essential a league club that shares my State of the art facilities. 

My B team now play 2nd div football, which I would assume would be a better level than my u18s and u23s. But after a couple of seasons of sending a select few players to play in the B side the don't really progress, certainly not as much as in the u18s/u23s. 

I've now 'disbanded' the B team and just use it for players ready to be sold/released. 

I now try not to clog up the u18s/u23s. No more than squads of 18 or 20 in either. 

It's now become the most interesting part of the game. Long gone are the days where you could just whack a 17 into the first teams and watch him rocket. You really have to think about their pathway and development. 

B team is similar to a loan to affiliate in 2nd division with same facilities and coaching staff so they are better than u23 as they play competitive matches. But the principles remain the same you want players to play at a level suitable for their development. Hence it is very unlikely that many of your young prospect are going to be in it. I used to sign a few cheap veteran players and move them to the B team to fill up the spots. You will also need to set the league to be simulated in full detail to get the most out of it.

B teams can be quite overpowered in terms of churning out young talents as you have much more control towards the development of players. I still remember one Barcelona save I had that managed to get their B team into the second division. Never have to worry about finding a suitable loan for young players.

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My Coruna B side hasn't quite gotten into the Spanish second division as of yet (the curse of having to start outside the league structure in part) but will form a vital part of the strategy going ahead when it does make it.

It's vital because, although the B team staff is never going to be anything special, these players are not likely to get a better experience at that level than they will by being there, as they'll have access to not only the club's great facilities but also the first team staff. Although only the players that are legitimately expected to progress to top division level train with the first team as we ultimately don't want to overload the first team coaches. The majority of players are only going to be there as squad fillers to stay in that division and will routinely be sold or released as needed.

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But thats a specific set up forspain and portugal right? where the b team plays in the lower division? As you can not implement a newly created U23 team in a competition? I've followed the advice and cleared out my U23. A few are in the first team , andother were moved back to U18. Now i basicly onlyuse it for ftness purposes and to store myex-youngsters that I need for registration purposes

Another question about development: how should you judge it? I used to go by the progress tracker, but recently I have noticed that, especially for youngsters, it isoften in direct contrast to the coach report. For example below:

 

 

20210530101623_1.thumb.jpg.bebb574f18350daf261f6ed962036be9.jpg

This is a player I moved to my main squad (available for U18) specificlyto mentor his low determination. According to the progress bar there has been no improvement, yet the coach report (done by 20/20 judging), says he improved massivly (leaps and bounds)?

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21 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

how should you judge it?

By using your own eyes and not relying on what coaches tell you.  As your example shows, there can be a difference between what the coach says and what the progress says.

Over a long period, what you are looking for is a general upward trend - as the player above has and is showing good progress.  It's perfectly natural to have a short term month or two of "decline" from time to time as you are seeing.  The long term progress is the important part and that's looks good :thup:.

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1 hour ago, eXistenZ said:

But thats a specific set up forspain and portugal right? where the b team plays in the lower division? As you can not implement a newly created U23 team in a competition? I've followed the advice and cleared out my U23. A few are in the first team , andother were moved back to U18. Now i basicly onlyuse it for ftness purposes and to store myex-youngsters that I need for registration purposes

Another question about development: how should you judge it? I used to go by the progress tracker, but recently I have noticed that, especially for youngsters, it isoften in direct contrast to the coach report. For example below:

 

 

20210530101623_1.thumb.jpg.bebb574f18350daf261f6ed962036be9.jpg

This is a player I moved to my main squad (available for U18) specificlyto mentor his low determination. According to the progress bar there has been no improvement, yet the coach report (done by 20/20 judging), says he improved massivly (leaps and bounds)?

Look at the coach report. It says here that he is operating at National League North/South level hence unlikely to be ready for first team matches if let's say you are a Championship or Premier League team. And there are no good loans out there at that level so better if he stays in your club. For me, a player will need to reach at least a level below where the club is at before I consider promoting to the first team. And you will need to be selective with your loans to get good development.

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3 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Look at the coach report. It says here that he is operating at National League North/South level hence unlikely to be ready for first team matches if let's say you are a Championship or Premier League team. And there are no good loans out there at that level so better if he stays in your club. For me, a player will need to reach at least a level below where the club is at before I consider promoting to the first team. And you will need to be selective with your loans to get good development.

That wasnt the question. it was why the discrepancy between the progress tracker and the coach summary

 

I know he isnt ready, but I want to mentor him. he is still playing all U18 matches

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Posted (edited)
Em 29/05/2021 em 20:50, herne79 disse:

Personally I only move an u18 player into my senior squad if he's good enough to be there.

But what if you have the feeling that he's going to be first team material in the future but he has a poor personality. Do you only still moving him into the senior squad when he's ready, and thus, you can put him in a mentoring group?

Edited by mikcheck
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31 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

But what if you have the feeling that he's going to be first team material in the future but he has a poor personality. Do you only still moving him into the senior squad when he's ready, and thus, you can put him in a mentoring group?

Personally I don't really see mentoring as being top priority for my 16/17 year olds in my u18 squad, however play it by ear, there's no hard and fast rule.  Would the young player benefit from a personality change vs training with the first team who will be on a different schedule to u18 matches?  How much training would he actually get?  Are the first team coaches good for training youngsters?  Just how bad is the youngster's personality?  Is his progression in the u18 squad decent despite his "poor" personality?

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17 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

That wasnt the question. it was why the discrepancy between the progress tracker and the coach summary

 

I know he isnt ready, but I want to mentor him. he is still playing all U18 matches

Try looking at Development -> Progress and then looking at 'attributes' rather than 'progress' if you want to know whether he's actually improving. I'm pretty sure that progress bar uses the star rating, which is a. relative to your squad, b. not perfect even with a staff member with JPA/JPP of 20 c. affected by form, so I wouldn't rely on it if I were you.

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18 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

That wasnt the question. it was why the discrepancy between the progress tracker and the coach summary

 

I know he isnt ready, but I want to mentor him. he is still playing all U18 matches

I don't bother with coach summaries. I only pay attention to

Progress : The chart tells you if a player is playing to potential. If he is then all is good. If it isn't then he needs a kick up the arse.
Raw attribute development: Over time a player will and should improve if you allow him to train and you play him the right amount vs the right opposition

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If I have a player in the u18/u23 squad but they're in first 11 or on the bench of the first team do they still get the benefits of u18/u23 training schedule? 

 

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On 28/05/2021 at 21:06, eXistenZ said:

Which one is preffered for U18 players?

 

The reason I ask is because I have a couple of 17y olds who have the fabled 4 solid stars potential. The youth report usually says "is ready for U23 football, would be an important player".

Is it really a higher standard or is the difference minimal? Because U23 is regulary used by first team players. I have 2 high potential strikers in a formation with 2 strikers, but if the places are occupied by first team players for fitness, will they develop?

I don't want to loan them out to league1 teams with mediocre facilities as i have state of the art.

U23 is the waiting room for players that are not good enough to play for your club

U18 is the development area for the best youth players from your club.

If you loan a player out its usually done after he has attained HGC status otherwise you run into issues later in your save. So for the best players you never loan them out. Ideally you want them training in your club with your coaches and using your facilities, thats assuming they are the better than others.

For my players who have 4 star potential, if they are ready for U23 football, they should be ready for first team football. But this is where you need to look at their attributes, I much rather they play for my first team. On my stream with Sporting Lisbon which is meant to answer all questions related to training you can see my approach. I have a player called Quaresma, the moment I started the save  he was a 17 year old player whose attributes weren't far off from being a player who could play in the first team. I moved him to the first team squad immediately, made him available for the U19 youth team but now he trains with the BEST COACHES at my club who are in the main team. 

I ignore the youth team coaches in my save, because these coaches aren't important in any way. They are just there to help develop the hidden players till they become visible. EVERY single player who has the potential to play for the main team will be moved to the first team squad if necessary. At one point I had 5 of them there, and i was rotating them. They each ended up having around 8-10 games a season of 15-45 minutes of action.

if a player is 18 years old and isn't good enough for the first team but is ready for the U23 my first choice is to loan them out. They need game time at that age. PLaying in the U23 is not competitive enough, they need to be playing in a competitive league at their level. You cannot develop EVERY single player.

I even have players who turn 18 and are good enough for the first team but can't get a look in, so these players are loaned only to clubs playing at the main squads competitive level.  Competitive football is more important than being in an U23 league team.

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1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

I ignore the youth team coaches in my save, because these coaches aren't important in any way. They are just there to help develop the hidden players till they become visible.

This has me befuddled. The club pays for JUNIOR COACHING - I assumed these are coaches who train 13, 14 15 year-olds until they arrive at the club in the annual academy intake. I assumed at that point they become visible and in your squad, under your jurisdiction. If you keep them in the U18 or whatever the most youthy of your squads is, youth coaches take charge of them. Have I got this wrong?

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5 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

This has me befuddled. The club pays for JUNIOR COACHING - I assumed these are coaches who train 13, 14 15 year-olds until they arrive at the club in the annual academy intake. I assumed at that point they become visible and in your squad, under your jurisdiction. If you keep them in the U18 or whatever the most youthy of your squads is, youth coaches take charge of them. Have I got this wrong?

To my knowledge, the only staff member you can actively hire that will play a role in development before they hit your intake is the HOYD and then yes, the youth squad staff will take over then (or whomever you have assigned to it).

I could be wrong, but my interpretation of Rashid's post was that in this particular save, the most promising youngsters are training in the first team. Anyone left behind probably isn't going to be a future first team player and as such you can comfortably ignore the youth staff with that approach.

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30 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

To my knowledge, the only staff member you can actively hire that will play a role in development before they hit your intake is the HOYD and then yes, the youth squad staff will take over then (or whomever you have assigned to it).

I could be wrong, but my interpretation of Rashid's post was that in this particular save, the most promising youngsters are training in the first team. Anyone left behind probably isn't going to be a future first team player and as such you can comfortably ignore the youth staff with that approach.

Yeh, ignoring any advice from them, sure. I've got State of the Art facilities and great coaching staff. For the first time, I've got a tranche of academy intakes that look like keepers. But at 16, they are far from the first team. I'll keep them close until they hit 18, then move them into my U23s. My current U23 have 11 players aged 16-19. The rest are loaned out. Just because they're not immediately ready for the first team squad doesn't mean they aren't important.

Having got into the Premier League, every point is crucial for survival in the first few years. I can't afford to sacrifice points by blooding kids in the first team. So the dilemma for me is what is most beneficial for each non-first team player: sit in the first team squad and play U23 matches to keep fit, go out on loan, and for the youngest ones, sit in the U23 or U18 squad whilst playing U18 fixtures. Here the question is whether they're better off on first team, U23 or U18 training schedules.

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My own personal opinion and approach in that specific situation (English premier league club) is simple; u23 is for first team players looking to get match fitness and the dead weight with no future. Anyone not good enough currently at 18+ to be in the first team squad and get at least a small amount of first team game time, but otherwise could potentially develop into a premier league player, are shipped out on loan to a club that plays at a competition level relevant for that player.

In my opinion, u23 competition level is not even close to good enough if its the only game time these players get in the next step of their development. u18 players stay put outside of exceptional circumstances (and them being promoted out of the u18 squad is never to the u23).

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One thing that keeps annoying me and I don't understand why it hasn't been changed yet, is the fact that we're not allowed to control U18 individual training if we want the U18 coach to use his preferred tactic.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Having got into the Premier League, every point is crucial for survival in the first few years. I can't afford to sacrifice points by blooding kids in the first team. So the dilemma for me is what is most beneficial for each non-first team player: sit in the first team squad and play U23 matches to keep fit, go out on loan, and for the youngest ones, sit in the U23 or U18 squad whilst playing U18 fixtures. Here the question is whether they're better off on first team, U23 or U18 training schedules.

One question is how good are your U18/U23 coaches?  Most of the time, they are inferior to your Senior coaches.  You can put a 17 year old on the senior team, have him train and mentor with the senior team, and make him available for both U23 and U18 matches, as they arise, of course depending upon fixture congestion.

Other approach:  You can mentor and train a young player with the senior team, without promoting him.  Go into Training/Units and add him to the appropriate unit, and he will otherwise stay on the U23/U18 team and play those matches as that Head Coach determines.

Edited by glengarry224
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4 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

One thing that keeps annoying me and I don't understand why it hasn't been changed yet, is the fact that we're not allowed to control U18 individual training if we want the U18 coach to use his preferred tactic.

I'm pretty sure that you can.  Just go into the target U18 player's training and when you attempt to change something, it will give you these options:

image.png.37916db3def8703e58d6218c1bcd01d2.png

 

 

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7 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

This has me befuddled. The club pays for JUNIOR COACHING - I assumed these are coaches who train 13, 14 15 year-olds until they arrive at the club in the annual academy intake. I assumed at that point they become visible and in your squad, under your jurisdiction. If you keep them in the U18 or whatever the most youthy of your squads is, youth coaches take charge of them. Have I got this wrong?

i mean the best will move up within a year or two, so how much do i want to invest in the coaches. It makes no sense

 

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8 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

This has me befuddled. The club pays for JUNIOR COACHING - I assumed these are coaches who train 13, 14 15 year-olds until they arrive at the club in the annual academy intake. I assumed at that point they become visible and in your squad, under your jurisdiction. If you keep them in the U18 or whatever the most youthy of your squads is, youth coaches take charge of them. Have I got this wrong?

Correct.  "Junior Coaching", which is something you have to ask your Board to upgrade, plays a part in determining the quality of junior players entering your youth squad on the annual intake day.  Youth coaches (eg., U18 coaches), which you have to hire and offer contracts to yourself, will then train any actual player you place in your youth squad (eg., in the U18 squad).

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Ive loaned out my top prospect to a club in the championship with state of the art facilities, i'll give an update in 6 months. Specificly asked him to be star player.

 

I have cleared out my u23 of any usefull players and moved the U18's with potential to train with the first team with available for U18

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3 hours ago, Rashidi said:

i mean the best will move up within a year or two, so how much do i want to invest in the coaches. It makes no sense

 

Great point.  I've taken over teams and belatedly noticed that in my U18, I have something like ten coaches for four allowed spots - how does that even happen? - and tried to mutually terminate almost all of them.  However, in some leagues, your reserve coaches can also coach your senior team.

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8 hours ago, Rashidi said:

i mean the best will move up within a year or two, so how much do i want to invest in the coaches. It makes no sense

 

Right, Gotcha. I'm one of those clubs whose philosophy is to develop youth from within, so I've always focused on bringing in exciting youth and selling them when they've plateaued or the chairman does it over my head. Profits I make have always been invested in improving facilities and higher wages for staff. My facilities are now maxed out, as is my staff numbers. I don't mind overpaying staff to keep them loyal as it's a lot less than giving a mediocre prima donna a long contract and not playing him!

It's also the curious case that in order to get Youth 1 rating, I'm obliged to hire an U18s goalkeeping coach and U18s physio - no other requirement. Anyway, point is I have perfectly decent and plentiful U18 and U23 coaches. Not including players out on loan, I have a total squad of about 47, only 17 of whom are aged over 21. With plenty of first team coaches I could put all of them in the first team squad for training purposes without overloading coaches' workload, but the key question is, would this be best practice? There are experts saying U18s develop best on U18 schedules below age 19, and others saying to the contrary.

To be clear, I have the best facilities and coaching staff at all levels. I have a great intake into my academy of 16 year olds who I fully intend to nurture but who won't be ready for the first team for maybe 2-4 years (think a bunch of little Fodens). I loan out 19 year olds and 20 year olds who probably could be decent in the first team squad but who have better players ahead of them but who might max out their development in the next year or two and be sold. Loanees only go out if the first or second tier loaning club guarantees first team status in the right position AND has excellent facilities. If development is below par, I bring them back in the winter window. Whilst the future is bright, the present is Premier League survival and I can't risk blooding youngsters in competitive matches.

so in these circumstances, what would you say is the optimum course of action to develop all my prospects here?  :)

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17 horas atrás, glengarry224 disse:

I'm pretty sure that you can.  Just go into the target U18 player's training and when you attempt to change something, it will give you these options:

image.png.37916db3def8703e58d6218c1bcd01d2.png

 

 

Thanks. Didn't know about that. Was it always like that or only in this version?

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On 01/06/2021 at 12:21, phnompenhandy said:

With plenty of first team coaches I could put all of them in the first team squad for training purposes without overloading coaches' workload, but the key question is, would this be best practice? There are experts saying U18s develop best on U18 schedules below age 19, and others saying to the contrary.

Transferring all of them is not advisable. Generally you transfer only those who have the ability to play, unless you feel generous and are willing to see a few sit there. 

Pros and Cons.

Pros 

Even if a youth player is moved to the main team, it all depends on his training schedule. My youth team and senior team have nearly the same training schedule, with the difference being the youth team has one extra match practice session. So if you are such a player then the youth player is not going to be adversely affected by using that schedule.

Its easier to mentor, since he is in the main team. I have  found that youth players who are good enough to play transferred early can still progress very well. One of my best players in the senior team is actually a 19 youth player who was promoted when he was 17. His attributes then were good enough for him to play.


Downside

The biggest downside of promoting them too early is learning traits. Its easier to learn traits when they are younger. The risk is they make more mistakes cos the traits are built on attributes that may not be very well distributed yet. I find this to be a small risk in fact, i much rather a young player working alongside an older player. It happens in real life and I dont see why this is such a bad thing on FM.

Having too my youth players in the main team can lead to over worked staff, who have to juggle time between more players. This has a detrimental effect on development.

 

The argument that a player should be in a youth team than in a senior team is placebic at best. If he is good enough move him. leave him if he isn't. BUT once they are 18 you have some hard decisions to make and this will be more a case by case thing than a rule.

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 @Rashidi    Got that, excellent, thanks.

My youths are not first-team ready, and I do prioritise learning traits as early as possible. When they outgrow the U18 squad I move them up to the U23 squad. The following season I try to find then suitable loans; if I can't (eg offered only rotation status or training facilities too low), they stay in the U23 squad.

I wonder if you'd be good enough to confirm whether my system is optimal or whether it disrupts player development:

First team squad of 21 - one GK and 2 per outfield position. Players who don't get minutes (either unused sub or not in matchday squad) may get minutes in midweek U23 game.

11 players in my U23 squad.

11 players in my U18 squad.

Whenever a first team squad player is injured, his equivalent in the U23 squad moves up, and the U18 understudy moves up to U23 side. The player temporarily moved up is unlikely to actually play a match and will likely return to his base squad as soon as the originally-injured player recovers. He might therefore miss out of days of training and a midweek match. Does this mess up anything, like the U18 player learning his trait?

 

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12 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

 @Rashidi    Got that, excellent, thanks.

My youths are not first-team ready, and I do prioritise learning traits as early as possible. When they outgrow the U18 squad I move them up to the U23 squad. The following season I try to find then suitable loans; if I can't (eg offered only rotation status or training facilities too low), they stay in the U23 squad.

I wonder if you'd be good enough to confirm whether my system is optimal or whether it disrupts player development:

First team squad of 21 - one GK and 2 per outfield position. Players who don't get minutes (either unused sub or not in matchday squad) may get minutes in midweek U23 game.

11 players in my U23 squad.

11 players in my U18 squad.

Whenever a first team squad player is injured, his equivalent in the U23 squad moves up, and the U18 understudy moves up to U23 side. The player temporarily moved up is unlikely to actually play a match and will likely return to his base squad as soon as the originally-injured player recovers. He might therefore miss out of days of training and a midweek match. Does this mess up anything, like the U18 player learning his trait?

 

I think they told you many times already, loan them out at the level that they are, instead of playing them in the U23 team, when they turn 18.

If they are good enough to have back up minutes with the first team, call them up to aid faster development when they turn 18.

If they are good enough to have appareances with the first team when they are younger than 18, again call them up. If not U18 is great for them still.

U23 leagues are to pick up fitness and play fringe players that might help you few games for injuries // sanctions. Level of the U23 is NOT an optimal level to aid development for over 18 year olds.

You want to win as many games as possible in all levels to keep everyone happy and performing // developing faster because they are happier.

It doesn't get easier than this.

Edited by Sharkn20
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On 31/05/2021 at 23:45, eXistenZ said:

Ive loaned out my top prospect to a club in the championship with state of the art facilities, i'll give an update in 6 months. Specificly asked him to be star player.

 

 

He played very well and improved quite well, mainly because he had great ratings (7.35 for 15 matches). However in the new season he is playing at a club thats not using him in the correct position and now his ability is declining because of the terrible ratings he gets... Will have to recall him asap in january...

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