Signing dramatically good players in the non-league

[Louie_g_34]

Just like any budding FM player that has finally "got the hang of" Football Manager i have started my own lower league save or non-league save depending on how you like your pasta.

Before I say anything else, this is the most frustrating, headache inducing thing I've ever done and I've... before. From the stupid youth internationals during important games to losing key player at any moment. Even the promises drive me up the wall more than usual.

I've got some good player in the team and making them reach the playoffs three seasons in a row in VNL/ South but because my team utterly implodes on itself every last few months I've never been able to get through the playoffs semis. (Maybe it's because I might be releasing half of them in a few months and that makes them nervous, idk)

I did a lot of Championship to PL saves recently, and a few messing about with world star teams so I was not at all prepared for the "your club doesn't match my ambition" phrase or the "team would prefer if so and so played with higher quality players". Getting really good player or 5 star CA players in the higher leagues is difficulty but I didn't think it would be this difficult. The highest I've been able to get, relative to my line up, is a 4 and a half star player. Which quickly goes down to 4 when he actually starts playing a few... maybe my scouts just suck. 

Getting to the question now has anyone found success getting a five star player to join your team, in either a transfer or loan capacity at all? 

 

...and if you did. How'd you do it? Spill em' beans.

[phnompenhandy]

 

1 hour ago, Louie_g_34 said:

Getting to the question now has anyone found success getting a five star player to join your team, in either a transfer or loan capacity at all? 

 

...and if you did. How'd you do it? Spill em' beans.

Loads of us. It's a huge subculture. I, myself, have been a lower league manager for 20 years and only now, during a long lockdown, have I got a club into the Premier League! But your question is too big to deal with in one post. Let me just say there are loads of youtube guides, guides in the tactics & training forum here and other fansites. Warning: you'd better be committed!

1 hour ago, Louie_g_34 said:

my team utterly implodes on itself every last few months I've never been able to get through the playoffs semis.

I'll deal with this one in a bite sized answer though. One important factor could be jadedness. Your players only train part-time, have too many matches to play and likely have a lot of kids and old codgers. Most people over-train their squads and don't give them enough rest. Given that training staff and facilities are so rubbish, most of player development comes from playing first-team competitive matches, so I keep a tight squad and give them plenty of rest during the season. I've identified two key periods when fatigue often tanks results - the Christmas period and the tail end of the season. Plan ahead, keep 'em fresh.

 

Oh, and a short response to this:

Quote

has anyone found success getting a five star player to join your team, in either a transfer or loan capacity at all?

imho, that's looking at lower-league management from the wrong perspective. you don't need the best players, and as you've identified, if you get one who's too good for you, he won't be around long. My view is that in LLM more than any other way of playing FM, tactics are all. It's your tactics that raise you above the rest - you can't spend your way to the top. Tactics. Identify the right formation, playing style and tactics for your players, keeping it simple. I said training doesn't do that much but I focus on developing physical attributes - and getting in players who are strong and quick, front and back. Given that players tend to come and go in great numbers, ensure you have the right system in place for new guys to slot into, hence keeping it simple and focusing on just a couple of skills. But it's all about the tactics, the right tactics for your players. You need to make the effort to study how they work and try a few short campaigns to get a feel of it.

Edited May 22, 2021 by phnompenhandy

[Louie_g_34]

4 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

 

Loads of us. It's a huge subculture. I, myself, have been a lower league manager for 20 years and only now, during a long lockdown, have I got a club into the Premier League! But your question is too big to deal with in one post. Let me just say there are loads of youtube guides, guides in the tactics & training forum here and other fansites. Warning: you'd better be committed!

I'll deal with this one in a bite sized answer though. One important factor could be jadedness. Your players only train part-time, have too many matches to play and likely have a lot of kids and old codgers. Most people over-train their squads and don't give them enough rest. Given that training staff and facilities are so rubbish, most of player development comes from playing first-team competitive matches, so I keep a tight squad and give them plenty of rest during the season. I've identified two key periods when fatigue often tanks results - the Christmas period and the tail end of the season. Plan ahead, keep 'em fresh.

 

Oh, and a short response to this:

imho, that's looking at lower-league management from the wrong perspective. you don't need the best players, and as you've identified, if you get one who's too good for you, he won't be around long. My view is that in LLM more than any other way of playing FM, tactics are all. It's your tactics that raise you above the rest - you can't spend your way to the top. Tactics. Identify the right formation, playing style and tactics for your players, keeping it simple. I said training doesn't do that much but I focus on developing physical attributes - and getting in players who are strong and quick, front and back. Given that players tend to come and go in great numbers, ensure you have the right system in place for new guys to slot into, hence keeping it simple and focusing on just a couple of skills. But it's all about the tactics, the right tactics for your players. You need to make the effort to study how they work and try a few short campaigns to get a feel of it.

Thanks so much for your insight. Tbh I was trying to he smart and ask this because I didn't think it was possible to be done. Gathering from what you said I guess I need to cool my want for the next Jamie Vardy.

As for why I'm losing so many playoffs I think I have to attribute that to jadedness like you said. I was playing a wonderful 4-4-2 Wingplay for most of the season and I just thought... " I'll plug in my best players for most of the season and presto! I'll be in League Two in no time." I'll try rotate the boys more now, they deserve a break and my second choice fullback with 4 crossing and 2 dribbling deserves some games.

Also, do you prefer spreading out your budget and getting largely similar skilled players (planning for the inevitable rotation) or do you just bite the bullet and play the very weak 2nd options?

[phnompenhandy]

42 minutes ago, Louie_g_34 said:

Also, do you prefer spreading out your budget and getting largely similar skilled players (planning for the inevitable rotation) or do you just bite the bullet and play the very weak 2nd options?

As a 20-year veteran, I have to get my thrills speciaL to keep going, so I set myself extra challenges. I haunt the Editors' Hideaway forum and depend on the geniuses there who produce super-lower-league added divisions. Leo's goes down to Level 11 in England, and Dans goes much further - down to level 23 one year. My current career started at level 13. It's brilliant, as in brilliantly awful when players have all their attributes in the 2s and 3s. I actually use the pre-game editor to dig out a squad of 15 year old lads and give them miniscule CA (some years I start them all on 1). I also do an 'Academy Challenge'. That's where I never buy any players at all - all the players I use have come through my youth academy. As I said, I've got further than I've ever got before, and I'm using the funds I get for selling stars to improve training and youth facilities. I've just maxed them out and am expecting some corking kids to come through. By starting so low down, what I find is that with the right tactics you can't not succeed. Those kids with CA1 rapidly improve with regular match experience (in the first year they keep blowing over when the ball whizzes past, but you keep going), and once you've settled on your formation and tactics, cohesion gradually sinks in and sticks. You might not want to go so hard core, so the way I play probably doesn't help you much!

[laurentius82]

Don't look at the stars too much. I know it's a cliché but it's especially true in the non-league. A player may have low current ability (and thus few stars), but if he has decent attributes at right places for his role in your tactic, he will be great in the non-league. For example, I have a 2-star striker who has scored 39, 47, 40, and 30 goals in the last 4 seasons. He has very low CA but good / decent attributes for pace/acceleration, off the ball, composure, anticipation, and finishing, enabling him to do really well in a poacher-type role in the lower leagues.

Currently I'm also struggling with jadedness towards the end of the season (can be a huge problem in non-league where there often may not much possibility to rotate your squad), and have bottled the playoffs 2-years running now. But I have made things a bit more difficult for myself by only signing players and staff named Steve.

[rafamaximo]

That's the magic of LLM. You will have to rely on your own judgment when it comes to players attributes and tactics. But if you're in England, focus on physical attibutes - strong and fast players before skilled ones. I think my last save like this in England has been in FM15 (or was that FM13?) when I took Carshalton Athletic from Conference South to Champions League title. Took me a very, very long time to achieve that though.

I am not sure how lower England leagues are working in recent FM like 2020 and 2021, but I recall most teams are so bad they won't be able to do much by passing the ball around, at least half the teams would focus exclusively at a more defensive play style with direct passing approach. So I would use some wierd formations to counter that, but I settled for a 4-3-2-1 (with wingers).

Four tall and strong defenders, wingbacks never ever leave defensive position. Two defensive midfielders who should focus on controlling space on midfield. One "creative" midfielder with good passing and, if at all possible, pace. Two VERY FAST wingers (doesn't matter if they suck at anything else, decent dribblling and cross help). A tall, strong stiker (if at all possible, some pace to keep up).

Team instructions without the ball: Very deep defense line, high and intense pressure line. This will leave some open space between lines? For sure. But high pressure will likely force opposing team to try a long pass, which your defenders will likely bounce back. Your defensive midfielders should take control of that space between your defensive and midield line.

Team instructions with the ball: Higher tempo, focus your passing through both wings. Instruct your wingers to always run with the ball and aim their crosses at your striker. Like, get the ball, pass to wingers, run, cross. 

This took me easily to League Two, almost got a playoff spot in first season there, when I was still struggling to rebuild my team and getting the players who didn't leave to sign full-time contracts.

[michael]

I have always found that pace for your strikers is a must for LLM. It doesn't matter too much if their finishing is poor because if they are up against defenders with poor pace they will normally get the time to finally put the ball in the net even if it takes them 2 or 3 attempts each time.