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The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570


Pukey
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4 minutes ago, Pukey said:

Grealish definitely needs to play his part in this tournament, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with Southgate's decision to play Sterling instead given how many times his pace got him in behind, and helped lead to the goal. And there was nothing wrong with him not bringing him on given we were winning (though I have reservations about subs potentially bringing more pressure on, but I don't think that happened too badly today.) 

Not saying Foden should be dropped (I'd play both), but as I said last night I don't think Foden should be as untouchable as he is to most English fans.

Great player, potentially 1 of the best in the world, but Grealish is better.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Haguey said:

Likewise, so does Southgate over Baptista, who is mostly known around here for usually being wrong. ;)

Do you not rate Grealish? Hard to tell. 

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Just now, arenaross said:

Do you not rate Grealish? Hard to tell. 

He's a fantastic player, but not better than Sterling, Foden or Sancho.

What a privilege to have so many good options though :thup:

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2 hours ago, Gizmo7 said:

 

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32 minutes ago, john1 said:

I think he was kept in a cotton wool for the Scotland game :D 

Final you mean? ;) 

22 minutes ago, Pukey said:

We are ridiculously fortunate to have so many very good attacking options. Sancho for example wasn't even on the bench today. 

This. We're so unbelievably stacked in the attacking midfield positions it's wild. That a player of the quality of Jadon Sancho can't get into the match day squad is crazy. 

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1 hour ago, Haguey said:

Likewise, so does Southgate over Baptista, who is mostly known around here for usually being wrong. ;)

What am I known for usually being wrong about?

I mean if you look back through my opinions, I've no doubt spoken some **** sure (Januzaj), but you'd be surprised how often I've spoken at least a little bit of sense. A **** load of players that fans are quick to write off - I've always seen that they will become good players, and have (Veretout, Douglas Luiz, Targett).

I sometimes have strong opinions which people laugh at because they look ridiculous at the time and don't appeal to the masses (i.e. saying Dele Alli is a limited player just after his great EPL season in terms of numbers) - how's he doing now?

Edited by Baptista_8
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1 hour ago, Pukey said:

Grealish definitely needs to play his part in this tournament, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with Southgate's decision to play Sterling instead given how many times his pace got him in behind, and helped lead to the goal. And there was nothing wrong with him not bringing him on given we were winning (though I have reservations about subs potentially bringing more pressure on, but I don't think that happened too badly today.) 

Exactly. Honestly getting really bored with those getting the hump when you don't have Grealish starting every single game, and you don't call him England's best player. He's going to have a huge impact, so let's just enjoy the options we have

The biggest issues from this game for me were Kane and Walker. Walker was terrible and Kane was non existent. 

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The good thing with that is we know Walker and Kane are quality players who should be able to up or get back to the required level of performance.

With Kane too, purely speculation here, but no idea how the Eriksen situation effected him. 

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2 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Missed the game because I was working (very busy morning but oddly by 2pm the place was almost empty, I wonder why) although I heard Kalvin Phillips had a good game.

Phillips was MOTM for the vast majority but officially it was given to Sterling. 

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35 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

What am I known for usually being wrong about?

I mean if you look back through my opinions, I've no doubt spoken some **** sure (Januzaj), but you'd be surprised how often I've spoken at least a little bit of sense. A **** load of players that fans are quick to write off - I've always seen that they will become good players, and have (Veretout, Douglas Luiz, Targett).

I sometimes have strong opinions which people laugh at because they look ridiculous at the time and don't appeal to the masses (i.e. saying Dele Alli is a limited player just after his great EPL season in terms of numbers) - how's he doing now?

Alli had 3 great seasons tbf. 

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Just now, Baptista_8 said:

Phillips was very impressive.

@Pukey does he always hold for Leeds or sometimes take a B2B role?

Was B2B before Bielsa but was pretty bog standard. Under Bielsa he has always been in the holding role, he does join the attack sometimes but he's definitely there to hold. 

Tbh even I would have had doubts about having him B2B but he was absolutely fantastic today. It was almost like having him do his holding role, disrupting the opposition with pressing everything but in a much more advanced position. He's always been decent on the ball too. 

Even though it was different to his usual role with us, cannot emphasise enough how much of an impact Bielsa has had on him. As I mentioned earlier, 3 years ago our fans thought he was garbage. Incredibly happy for him and so pleased he's proved doubters wrong, some twitter morons even questioning why he was even called up. Hope we get more performances like this, think him and Rice complemented each other really well, and Mount in there is handy, not quite at his best today but showed glimpses of what he can do. 

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Good result, not a fan of the mentality second half. Sterling goal papers over a LOT of cracks in that. Take some of more of them chances in first half no-one cares, but how we started 2nd half is a cause of concern IMO. First half, we were good. Ok front foot, pressure on, forcing them to go long and moving ball quick when going foward. 2nd half complete oppposite, especially after first 10/15 we were so off the pace. Next two will be a formality, but honestly that 2nd half better not be what we’ll do come last 16. 

Edited by pearcey_90
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There was a sense that Croatia were growing into the game back end of 1st half and start of 2nd, and Modric starting to dictate. I was getting flashbacks to WC18. Our goal came at the perfect tine really. And once we had the lead we did enough to see it out. Kane could have got a 2nd too.

Wasn't Modric's best game but christ he's still good at 35. Would love him in England's side. Exactly type of player would turn us from quarter finalists to winners.

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39 minutes ago, skybluedave said:

The good thing with that is we know Walker and Kane are quality players who should be able to up or get back to the required level of performance.

With Kane too, purely speculation here, but no idea how the Eriksen situation effected him. 

just think Sterling is getting seriously unjustified flak while players worse than him get away with it. 

Kane's lack of movement really hampered the fluidity of the front three

Scotland will be a good test, played on a Friday night, they will look to bring much more tempo and aggression against us and it won't be so blisteringly hot either

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1 hour ago, Pukey said:

Was B2B before Bielsa but was pretty bog standard. Under Bielsa he has always been in the holding role, he does join the attack sometimes but he's definitely there to hold. 

Tbh even I would have had doubts about having him B2B but he was absolutely fantastic today. It was almost like having him do his holding role, disrupting the opposition with pressing everything but in a much more advanced position. He's always been decent on the ball too. 

Even though it was different to his usual role with us, cannot emphasise enough how much of an impact Bielsa has had on him. As I mentioned earlier, 3 years ago our fans thought he was garbage. Incredibly happy for him and so pleased he's proved doubters wrong, some twitter morons even questioning why he was even called up. Hope we get more performances like this, think him and Rice complemented each other really well, and Mount in there is handy, not quite at his best today but showed glimpses of what he can do. 

Phillips has apparently spoken about how much he enjoyed playing alongside Rice. Maybe the centre-mid partnership of Rice and the Yorkshire Pirlo is what England should run with for the next few years.

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19 minutes ago, Heartwork said:

Phillips has apparently spoken about how much he enjoyed playing alongside Rice. Maybe the centre-mid partnership of Rice and the Yorkshire Pirlo is what England should run with for the next few years.

Bellingham's progression might make him undroppable in the years to come, but the Phillips and Rice combination will likely carry on for a bit longer yet

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9 hours ago, Pukey said:

He's had Phillips be more of a box to box before so that might be the plan. Which is daft as he's about a billion times better as a DM than a B2B but there you go.

 

9 hours ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

If he's looking for a box to box player then picking Phillips over Bellingham is still such a boring Southgate decision.

 

9 hours ago, Pukey said:

Don't disagree. If he wants to play 2 DMs to try and control the midfield and nullify their threat, I get it and Rice/Phillips is a good combo, but if he wants Phillips to be more attacking then he should be starting Bellingham. I think he'll be a bit of a hybrid, mostly defensive but expected to contribute to the attack occasionally. It's probably a bit negative but I'm not sure I trust Stones and Mings without that protection.

 

9 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Agree on this. If you want a Box to Box, play Bellingham

 

9 hours ago, Marc Albrighton said:

He doesn't want a B2B, he wants a safe boring lineup designed to not lose.

This needed quoting in full, sorry :D

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And on Trippier, did anyone else hear what Southgate said about the reasoning? Seems solid enough reasoning to me, more to do with individual players than tactics:

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/gareth-southgate-england-kieran-trippier-euro-2021-b940368.html

“We felt that his talking across the backline and his ability to get out and stop crosses quickly and his experience on a day like today - alongside Tyrone Mings, who is relatively early in his international career - would be a good stabilising element.”

“He is a very underrated player,” Southgate added. “People are still looking at the player from a few years ago and not at the one who is at Atletico Madrid and playing like a warrior in the last few seasons.

“He is a big part of what we’ve done over the last few years and he gave a really good performance.”

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6 minutes ago, m_fenton said:

 

 

 

 

This needed quoting in full, sorry :D

Not sure why tbh. Even Pukey the Leeds fan who loves him wasn't a fan, with good reason. Probably the first time he's ever played this well in a box to box role. 

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1 minute ago, Marc Albrighton said:

I'm trying to find your post disagreeing with any of it before you had the benefit of the result and hindsight.

I wasn't on the forum before kick off so can't have a friendly laugh about other people having a meltdown?

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I watched Phillips play more advanced for a couple of years in the Championship and he only barely looked at that level. He's obviously massively excelled at his holding role and I adore him, but it wasn't without reason to think if you want a box to box to play Bellingham instead. Fair play to Southgate for seeing that kind of performance in that role in him, clearly taking advantage of his physicality and his fitness to have him absolutely everywhere, and he's good enough on the ball to get out of tight situations and play good passes. The guy continues to exceed my expectations.

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2 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

No one was having a meltdown though.

I've just caught up on the thread (and the match one) from pre-kick off to now in one go. You've got people calling the line up embarrassing. saying that Southgate should be criticised for it regardless of the result, that it's boring and only designed not to lose.

Perhaps the manager isn't actually a boring clueless simpleton, and has at least earnt the benefit of the doubt by now for his decisions?

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5 minutes ago, Pukey said:

I watched Phillips play more advanced for a couple of years in the Championship and he only barely looked at that level. He's obviously massively excelled at his holding role and I adore him, but it wasn't without reason to think if you want a box to box to play Bellingham instead. Fair play to Southgate for seeing that kind of performance in that role in him, clearly taking advantage of his physicality and his fitness to have him absolutely everywhere, and he's good enough on the ball to get out of tight situations and play good passes. The guy continues to exceed my expectations.

Exactly. He's never at any point in his career shown he could play the box to box role at this level. Brilliant that he did, but Fenton coming in trying to do a told you so with hindsight is a joke really

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What I'd say is that he's shown attributes that make it easy to see why a manager would think "this guy can play this role for me" but he looked a standard Champ level midfielder before he was turned into a very, very good holding midfielder. Southgate clearly sees these attributes and loves him, but his previous England performances had our fans questioning why he wasn't doing the holding job/why both him and Rice were doing it and leaving us with little creativity. Obviously today the balance was right which helped massively, but yeah there hasn't been a great deal previously to make me think of him as an international B2B midfielder (but certainly an exceptional DM.) 

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Right, I've clearly misjudged the mood so won't say much else.

I assumed everyone had just finished a nice day in the sun watching England win, so might find it amusing re-reading the post match chat that ended up widest of the mark. Not trying to be a smart arse or anything, literally just making a little joke.

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I think it's a bigger joke people getting defensive about it. Would've been better to just admit that on this occassion that you got it wrong rather than trying to say to say 'Ah but you didn't say I was wrong before the game'.

So many people offer up insights before the game and when it comes true they're like 'See I told you Southgate hasn't a clue'. If you are going to offer an opinion before the game about a manager's decision suggesting it wasn't the right move then you leave yourself open to this after the match.

Edited by Tony85
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Just now, Tony85 said:

I think it's a bigger joke people getting defensive about it. Would've been better to just admit that on this occassion that you got it wrong rather than trying to say to say 'Ah but you didn't say I was wrong before the game'.

So many people offer up insights before the game and when it comes true they're like 'See I told you Southgate hasn't a clue'. If you are going to offer an opinion before the game about a manager's decision suggesting it wasn't the right move then you leave yourself open to this after the match.

I mean, most people have pretty much said he exceeded expectations in that role

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1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said:

Southgate commented on how unassuming Phillips is, clearly loves managing him

He comes across a really nice guy, and you can see in the Amazon documentary what a good guy he is. Seems very humble and the type who's willing to do anything, and he's got a really good family behind him as well. So happy he stayed with us when he was pretty close to going to Villa.

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6 minutes ago, Pukey said:

What I'd say is that he's shown attributes that make it easy to see why a manager would think "this guy can play this role for me" but he looked a standard Champ level midfielder before he was turned into a very, very good holding midfielder. Southgate clearly sees these attributes and loves him, but his previous England performances had our fans questioning why he wasn't doing the holding job/why both him and Rice were doing it and leaving us with little creativity. Obviously today the balance was right which helped massively, but yeah there hasn't been a great deal previously to make me think of him as an international B2B midfielder (but certainly an exceptional DM.) 

Would never have called him for an international B2B at any point, never thought he had the timing of the run, and while a good passer, didn't think he hadn't in him to play penetrative passes like that. Makes you wonder what his peak really is if he can learn and adapt that quickly. I know Lucy Ward well, and she used to rave about his thirst to learn

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  • metal_guitarist changed the title to The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

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