The Jack Grealish (and occasionally England) Thread: It's coming home attempt 5782570

[skybluedave]

The problem last night was nobody running in behind and overlapping Kane. Kane was taking Grealish space etc. I'd have moved Grealish left, Saka right and Lingard in the middle. 

[Pukey]

10 hours ago, ajw10 said:

Phillips is injured btw and I think might miss the first game

Southgate said he'll be involved at the weekend so injury isn't as bad as it looked, unless something has changed. 

[Pukey]

10 hours ago, Barry Cartman said:

Nah unless you're labelled a DM on Football Manager you cannot possibly have any defensive abilities whilst also being comfortable going box to box 

I do hope that's not aimed at the discussion from the other day, given that's not what was being argued in the slightest

[ajw10]

28 minutes ago, pearcey_90 said:

But there is runners behind. Coach Kane to make those runs behind like he did few years ago, not the crap he's doing at Spurs dropping deeper than the CMs. Foden makes runs behind regularly too, and is actually quite fast. It's not like there's no pace what so ever amongst them  Yes Pep is a far greater coach, but if Man City can win the league and get to UCL final playing with no 'runners' behind (Silva/KDB/Foden/Mahrez), then we can do something with those 3 + Kane. 

They don't need to play every game together as there's different options against certain teams, but they're in the strongest line up if pushed to name a XI. The first game we have where we're largely blunt, the chat in here will about how we have to get one (or two) of them more on the pitch. 

because it's that easy? I don't think Kane's ankles are quite up for making that many runs in behind.

[bigdunk]

11 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

because it's that easy? I don't think Kane's ankles are quite up for making that many runs in behind.

Even then, if you're playing some type of possession football, with one up front, you don't really want your centre forward making those runs. He's just going to be pushed much further forward and get isolated from the rest of your team. You want a winger running past him to create space, so you can play into Kane's feet and bring the midfielders into the game. 

[ajw10]

3 minutes ago, bigdunk said:

Even then, if you're playing some type of possession football, with one up front, you don't really want your centre forward making those runs. He's just going to be pushed much further forward and get isolated from the rest of your team. You want a winger running past him to create space, so you can play into Kane's feet and bring the midfielders into the game. 

definitely.

Plus, if you've got a player who is as good at making those passes as Harry Kane why would you stop him from doing so just to shoehorn Grealish or Foden in?

[sc91]

2 hours ago, VP. said:

Let's be honest we're struggling to get out of the group with this central defence. 

Coady not good enough

Mings a liability

Godfrey inexperienced 

Maguire injured

Stones can be brilliant but won't be when paired with any of the fit defenders 

Edit: on mobile and didn't mean to post when I did but the other centre backs like Godfrey not in the final squad are no better either.

Whilst not to white knight for Coady, I imagine he is only there incase England play with a 5, in which case he is the specialist in that position. He shouldn't be played in a back 4 at all.

[pearcey_90]

27 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

definitely.

Plus, if you've got a player who is as good at making those passes as Harry Kane why would you stop him from doing so just to shoehorn Grealish or Foden in?

Just drop Kane then if you are wanting him to drop off to make the passes.

[adhikapp]

Ideally if Joe Gomez was fit, there wouldn't be a debate of having lack of depth in defence for England. If Mings was right-footed, he wouldn't be anywhere near that England squad.

Foden, Mount, and Grealish could all definitely play together, but I don't think there would be much width, or anyone running in behind. One of Sancho or Rashford should be starting ahead of one of them cause those three kinda lack pace. Last year's Sterling would be lock in, but current form Sterling isn't it.

[EnterUsernameHere]

8 minutes ago, adhikapp said:

Ideally if Joe Gomez was fit, there wouldn't be a debate of having lack of depth in defence for England. If Mings was right-footed, he wouldn't be anywhere near that England squad.

Foden, Mount, and Grealish could all definitely play together, but I don't think there would be much width, or anyone running in behind. One of Sancho or Rashford should be starting ahead of one of them cause those three kinda lack pace. Last year's Sterling would be lock in, but current form Sterling isn't it.

Rashford/Sterling’s drop off is one of England’s biggest concerns. One thing I agree on with the others is that England could do with someone running in behind.

Edited June 3, 2021 by EnterUsernameHere

[arenaross]

Grealish is rapid and absolutely not lacking in pace ffs. This is what I mean about people not having actually watched him much other than a few highlight reels. 

Foden is hardly a slouch either. 

 

 

[EnterUsernameHere]

Just now, arenaross said:

Grealish is rapid and absolutely not lacking in pace ffs. This is what I mean about people not having actually watched him much other than a few highlight reels. 

Foden is hardly a slouch either. 

 

 

To be fair I don’t think people are calling him slow, just that he, Foden, Mount and even Kane to an extent want to do the same thing. I’d definitely start Grealish though.

[Darius1998]

Foden and Grealish are a lot better at running with the ball than they are making runs without it. To get some balance, it would probably be better to have one of them on the left and a wide forward on the right.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Darius1998

[arenaross]

Oh sure but let's not leave him out because he lacks pace when he's one of the fastest players in the league. 

[EnterUsernameHere]

Just now, arenaross said:

Oh sure but let's not leave him out because he lacks pace when he's one of the fastest players in the league. 

Yeah. Southgate being Southgate though.

[adhikapp]

Of course Grealish isn't slow, neither is Mount of Foden. But running in behind isn't his playstyle innit.

[arenaross]

3 minutes ago, adhikapp said:

Of course Grealish isn't slow, neither is Mount of Foden. But running in behind isn't his playstyle innit.

"One of Sancho or Rashford should be starting ahead of one of them cause those three kinda lack pace." 

[Barry Cartman]

The labeling of players in here is ridiculous  

[Barry Cartman]

2 hours ago, Astafjevs said:

Mount, Grealish, Foden is the new Gerrard, Lampard, Scholes

Except the alternative to playing 1 of them out of position isn't Darius Vassell this time 

[Baptista_8]

2 hours ago, ajw10 said:

It's absolutely not about talent, it's about a skillset.

This is nonsense isn't it? Any manager worth their salt would hamper the side by not playing a forward that runs in behind?

Sancho has finished the season strongly, scoring twice in a cup final and being a big part in Dortmund getting CL football. He picked up an injury around the last international break, where his form was incredible.

Sancho has scored 5 goals and 4 assists since Grealish last registered one of either at club level

I don't care about all these stats. Oh he's scored two goals in a final. So what? What were the goals like, what was his actual performance like?

The amount of chances Grealish creates is unreal, but it's not just that, he drags teams structures completely apart, and often gets the pass that leads to the assist also.

[Barry Cartman]

20 minutes ago, arenaross said:

"One of Sancho or Rashford should be starting ahead of one of them cause those three kinda lack pace." 

'Jack I want you to use your pace and make runs in behind'

'sorry boss it isn't my play style innit'

[Baptista_8]

35 minutes ago, arenaross said:

Grealish is rapid and absolutely not lacking in pace ffs. This is what I mean about people not having actually watched him much other than a few highlight reels. 

Foden is hardly a slouch either. 

Yeah but tbf like people have said it's not his game. When he plays LW, he doesn't play like an out and out winger, although he does occasionally get to the byline like a traditional winger, but he's more of a wide playmaker.

[themadsheep2001]

2 hours ago, arenaross said:

Point me in the direction of one good performance Sancho has put in for England. 

He also plays for a much better team than Villa. It's going to be a lot harder when you're playing with Marvelous Nakamba and Kieran Davis as opposed to Haaland and Reus. 

Unless Jack Grealish is going to play down the right hand side and keep the width, he doesn't come into the conversation on the right. It's Sancho Vs Sterling

Unless Jack Grealish is going to start making lots of direct off the ball runs in behind and keeping depth, he doesn't come into the conversation when we're talking about runners either when we talk Sterling, Rashford and Sancho

It's like everything here is being taken as some kind of slight on Grealish if you don't make him the first choice in any position. 

This isn't about trying to shoehorn our favourite or club players in FFS, it's about hopefully trying to go deep into s tournament and have an outside chance of winning it, and getting the best balance in the 11 to do so

[arenaross]

7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Unless Jack Grealish is going to play down the right hand side and keep the width, he doesn't come into the conversation on the right. It's Sancho Vs Sterling

Unless Jack Grealish is going to start making lots of direct off the ball runs in behind and keeping depth, he doesn't come into the conversation when we're talking about runners either when we talk Sterling, Rashford and Sancho

It's like everything here is being taken as some kind of slight on Grealish if you don't make him the first choice in any position. 

This isn't about trying to shoehorn our favourite or club players in FFS, it's about hopefully trying to go deep into s tournament and have an outside chance of winning it, and getting the best balance in the 11 to do so

He has played on the right for England though. He's been used in two or three different positions by Southgate during the matches he's played. 

I'm also still waiting for someone to point me to a time that Sancho has been anything other than mediocre for England. 

[arenaross]

Anyway I am off to the pub so shall leave you all to it. None of you deserve JG7 and i wish he'd chosen to play for Ireland. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, arenaross said:

He has played on the right for England though. He's been used in two or three different positions by Southgate during the matches he's played. 

I'm also still waiting for someone to point me to a time that Sancho has been anything other than mediocre for England. 

Ignoring the very specific point I made about keeping the width on the right. Again unless he's going to do that, doesn't come into the conversation. 

Sancho was playing for England during his dip in form in Germany, don't think we've actually deployed him consistently since he rediscovered his form

[craigcwwe]

Grealish and Sancho have two different styes of play. Shouldn't really be in competition with each other for the same position.

[kopsy101]

Sounds like Southgate has a really good problem going on in terms of forwards

I wouldn't start Grealish right now, as good as he is. You get more space and gaps attacking for Villa, than you do for City, Chelsea, United etc so it's difficult to say exactly how good he'll be, but there are other, proven, world class options. Can I just say that I really rate him, it's just that his competition is Foden, Mount, Rashford, Sterling and Saka. 

PS I wouldn't get too dragged into top speed stats, they're pretty unreliable and mostly irrelevant. 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, craigcwwe said:

Grealish and Sancho have two different styes of play. Shouldn't really be in competition with each other for the same position.

Exactly. It's not freaking rocket science and it does my nut in because it's like we don't learn from the same mistakes every international competition

[brett.spurs]

Don't see why a three of Rice, Mount and Foden couldn't work. They're industrious enough to get around, not like they're a couple of Ozils. Those three with Sancho/Sterling and Grealish either side of Kane. Not going to happen though obviously but it's not outrageously unbalanced.

[EnterUsernameHere]

15 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Ignoring the very specific point I made about keeping the width on the right. Again unless he's going to do that, doesn't come into the conversation. 

Sancho was playing for England during his dip in form in Germany, don't think we've actually deployed him consistently since he rediscovered his form

Why does he have to keep width on the right? If you let him tuck in you can still get width from an overlapping full back. 

I'd play him on the left for what it's worth, but width doesn't have to come from your most attacking wide man.

[themadsheep2001]

4 minutes ago, kopsy101 said:

Sounds like Southgate has a really good problem going on in terms of forwards

I wouldn't start Grealish right now, as good as he is. You get more space and gaps attacking for Villa, than you do for City, Chelsea, United etc so it's difficult to say exactly how good he'll be, but there are other, proven, world class options. Can I just say that I really rate him, it's just that his competition is Foden, Mount, Rashford, Sterling and Saka. 

PS I wouldn't get too dragged into top speed stats, they're pretty unreliable and mostly irrelevant. 

I think you could roll a dice to pick any two from three and still be ok, but my current personal preference would be Foden and Mount, having more experience playing against less space and against top continental sides, and both doing excellent. 

[EnterUsernameHere]

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Exactly. It's not freaking rocket science and it does my nut in because it's like we don't learn from the same mistakes every international competition

What mistake? 

[oche balboa]

24 minutes ago, arenaross said:

He has played on the right for England though. He's been used in two or three different positions by Southgate during the matches he's played. 

I'm also still waiting for someone to point me to a time that Sancho has been anything other than mediocre for England. 

This

[kopsy101]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

I think you could roll a dice to pick any two from three and still be ok, but my current personal preference would be Foden and Mount, having more experience playing against less space and against top continental sides, and both doing excellent. 

Absolutely, 100% agree. 

However, whichever combo he picks, somebody is gonna slaughter him.

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Why does he have to keep width on the right? If you let him tuck in you can still get width from an overlapping full back. 

I'd play him on the left for what it's worth, but width doesn't have to come from your most attacking wide man.

I'm aware it doesn't have to come from your most attacking wide man. But we're already going to be narrow and overlapping on the left, we should be using the full back on the right to almost supplement the midfield at times (help maintain midfield superiority), and being more judicious in overlapping, which places more impetus on the wide right player keeping wide. 

Secondly and more importantly I'm not just talking width in terms of delivery, but terms opening space for the midfield to overload. 

If Sancho is keeping his runs wide and pinning the full back wide, and the full back tucks in slightly on the right, players like Mount or Grealish Bellingham being deployed in midfield can attack even into the space created, and these players are lethal carrying the ball up the pitch into space

If we're narrow on both flanks you've taken the space for the midfield to drive into, and you become overreliant on full backs pushing up, which makes us more vulnerable on the counter. And the defence is already shaky as it is. 

[EnterUsernameHere]

7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm aware it doesn't have to come from your most attacking wide man. But we're already going to be narrow and overlapping on the left, we should be using the full back on the right to almost supplement the midfield, and being more judicious in overlapping, which places more impetus on the wide right player keeping wide. 

Secondly and more importantly I'm not just talking width in terms of delivery, but terms opening space for the midfield to overload. 

If Sancho is keeping his runs wide and pinning the full back wide, and the full back tucks in slightly, players like Mount or Grealish Bellingham being deployed in midfield can attack into the space created

If we're narrow on both flanks you've taken the space for the midfield to drive into, and you become overreliant on full backs pushing up, which makes us more vulnerable on the counter. And the defence is already shaky as it is. 

Right, so if Sancho is doing that on the right (which is what I'd go for), then there's clearly room for Grealish to play his normal way on the left and not turn himself into a Sterling/Rashford.

I get your point but it seems like you don't want him to play just because he doesn't fit your preferred personal formation.

I don't see why Grealish can't play narrow on the right if Sancho can stay wide on the left, but I'd have it flipped with Grealish cutting in on the left and Sancho holding width right.

Edited June 3, 2021 by EnterUsernameHere

[themadsheep2001]

9 minutes ago, kopsy101 said:

Absolutely, 100% agree. 

However, whichever combo he picks, somebody is gonna slaughter him.

Agreed. I think is also being forgotten that we help get the very best from these players by creating space for the and situations where they can dictate and isolate the opposition, hence players lie Sterling making selfless runs occupying players

[Baptista_8]

12 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I think you could roll a dice to pick any two from three and still be ok, but my current personal preference would be Foden and Mount, having more experience playing against less space and against top continental sides, and both doing excellent. 

I don't get this reasoning at all. They are playing in top sides that can compete against these other top continental sides with ease. Hence them both getting to the final, of course they're not going to struggle in those games. They are good players playing in well set up systems.

If you are honestly doubting that Grealish could achieve the same level of performance just because he hasn't played CL, I don't get it. Look at his England performances so far, been the best player in almost all of them and you're saying Mount and Foden should be ahead of him just because they've done well in the CL.

Grealish has excelled against these top sides domestically, in a poorer side.

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, EnterUsernameHere said:

Right, so if Sancho is doing that on the right (which is what I'd go for), then there's clearly room for Grealish to play his normal way on the left and not turn himself into a Sterling/Rashford.

I get your point but it seems like you don't want him to play just because he doesn't fit your preferred personal formation.

I don't see why Grealish can't play narrow on the right if Sancho can stay wide on the left, but I'd have it flipped with Grealish cutting in on the left and Sancho holding width right.

I'm really confused now. Since I never said Grealish couldn't play on the left. I've never argued that at all. Quite the opposite, just that my personal current preference would be Foden and Mount for reasons stated.

[EnterUsernameHere]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm really confused now. Since I never said Grealish couldn't play on the left. I've never argued that at all

My bad, I thought you'd said about him being a runner on the left specifically on your second sentence to Arena.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Baptista_8 said:

I don't get this reasoning at all. They are playing in top sides that can compete against these other top continental sides with ease. Hence them both getting to the final, of course they're not going to struggle in those games. They are good players playing in well set up systems.

If you are honestly doubting that Grealish could achieve the same level of performance just because he hasn't played CL, I don't get it. Look at his England performances so far, been the best player in almost all of them and you're saying Mount and Foden should be ahead of him just because they've done well in the CL.

Grealish has excelled against these top sides domestically, in a poorer side.

Honestly, Bap we did this last night and I'm not going to do it again. 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, EnterUsernameHere said:

My bad, I thought you'd said about him being a runner on the left specifically on your second sentence to Arena.

Nooo, runner on the right. Now I see why you thought that. 

[sc91]

41 minutes ago, arenaross said:

Anyway I am off to the pub so shall leave you all to it. None of you deserve JG7 and i wish he'd chosen to play for Ireland. 

You aren't the only one...

[themadsheep2001]

@EnterUsernameHere would never personally try and use Grealish as a runner, waste of his talent and not really his game

With Tripper, you could tuck him in on the left, Sancho go wide left and have Grealish tuck in on the right as a playmaker. Could have then deployed TAA in that really aggressive right full back role, but doesn't look like an option now

[EnterUsernameHere]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

@EnterUsernameHere would never personally try and use Grealish as a runner, waste of his uses. 

With Tripper, you could tuck him in on the left, Sancho go wide left and have Grealish tuck in the right. Could have then deployed TAA in that really aggressive right full back role, but doesn't look like an option

Yeah that's what I'd be going for if I was going for him on the right. 

As I said though, Rashford/Sterling being so out of form is the biggest question mark for me. I still think Southgate will pick one and I get why, but I wouldn't.

[skybluedave]

32 minutes ago, brett.spurs said:

Don't see why a three of Rice, Mount and Foden couldn't work. They're industrious enough to get around, not like they're a couple of Ozils. Those three with Sancho/Sterling and Grealish either side of Kane. Not going to happen though obviously but it's not outrageously unbalanced.

Agreed. Maybe not starting certain games but when we need a goal. That's the type of side I'd turn too. 

It would be a simple sub of Grealish on for Bellingham/Henderson to achieve it. And you still have the luxury of  chucking a Sancho/Sterling/Rashford (whoever's not starting) on to freshen up with pace.

Then after we score 3 to come back from behind to lead Portugal 3-1, we take Foden off for Phillips and see the game out comfortably.

[Barry Cartman]

Didn't the goal last night come from Grealish running in behind? 

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, Barry Cartman said:

Didn't the goal last night come from Grealish running in behind? 

From wide on the wing? Clearly not. 

[bigdunk]

8 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Didn't the goal last night come from Grealish running in behind? 

No, Grealish played the ball out to Kane and then he made a supporting run from deep.  We're talking about players making speculative runs in behind their backline, so we're always threatening to get in behind if they push out too much. Grealish normally wants to get on the ball deep and drive at their backline.