adhikapp Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 This is basically the depth chart if England go 3-4-3 (Notice that I just listed all the 10s at WL and all the wingers at WR for sorting purposes, not preferences. Also put Rashford as ST so it looks balanced ) With the squad picked, Southgate definitely has Walker and James at RCB of a back 3 in mind, because that's the most logical explanation why he called up all 4 RBs. He's got a back up for every position, and by making this out, it seems like Saka is the main beneficiary of Greenwood's injury. Genuinely think Southgate loves JWP, but Bellingham's rise at Dortmund forced him to not call him up. Lingard is just redundant in this formation when all the AMs and Ws are just better options. There's an argument he could've been in there instead of Saka, but don't think it'll matter that much since neither would start many games anyway. Seems like Southgate is going for the 2018 World Cup defence line-up again with Maguire-Stones-Walker back 3, Trippier at RWB, and a United player at LWB. Now he has Coady as a back up, a player who excells in the back 3 for Wolves. Don't actually rate Mings that much (just not my cup of tea imo and think Konsa is better), but I've come to warm up to the thought of a left footer as a back up there. Think if Joe Gomez isn't injured, he'd be there instead of Mings but that's a moot point anyways. Personal bias or not, he's the only weak link in the squad where Southgate don't exactly have better options above Mings for this exact role. I personally don't like the idea of Rice and Hendo as a midfield pair if England were to go with a back 3/5. In a back 4, that pair is fine because that means there's more attacking players are on the pitch. In the last Nations League matches, that pairing in a 3-4-3 is too static and have lacks creativity, especially when Gareth shunts his AMs to the wings (Mount, Foden, Grealish) where they aren't as effective. Personally, it should be Rice OR Henderson rather than AND, with Bellingham or possibly Mount next to the one starting. Kane is a cert, and DCL is a very abled back up. The players next to him are the toss up, really. An inform Sterling would've definitely be locked in the XI, but an out-of-form Sterling is lucky he's included. You could make a case for anyone playing next to Kane and I genuinely could say, "fair enough". It's refreshing to have an England side with so many good options around the pitch, when in 2018, people were genuinely discussing should Southgate have called up one of Shelvey or Wilshere... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Marc Albrighton said: Southgate is always going to use 2 holders in a 433 though i think. Because of the talent in the squad i think people obviously want to see those types of lineups but i dont think we'll be nearly as adventurous as the squad suggests. It's Southgate so there is no chance we're getting anything other than a team with a solid 7-8 defensive minded players. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren1983 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, adhikapp said: "Deano" Bit over familiar that, he's only got one cap Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afced7 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 On 31/05/2021 at 16:30, Matthew Le God said: Me when Ward-Prowse wins the tournament with a perfect free kick: (p.s. there is far more to his game than the lazy pundit view all he has is free kicks and corners) Gonna need to be a bloody good free kick to score it from his sofa. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhikapp Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 4 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: "Deano" Bit over familiar that, he's only got one cap England's got 2 Henderson's in the team and one's already taken the "Hendo" nickname. It was the easiest way to differentiate the two, otherwise some idiot might think/joke "hurrdurr why are you playing Jordan Henderson in goal hurrdurr" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 54 minutes ago, enigmatic said: We wake up I mean, he definitely could have, and frankly if he's going to pick four he might as well pick Ayling, Aarons, Cash, Wan Bissaka, Maitland Niles and Young so he's got the full XI He'll only have three actual central defenders if Maguire isn't fit... Walker plays RCB. So Walker, Stones, Mings, Coady Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Just now, ajw10 said: Walker plays RCB. So Walker, Stones, Mings, Coady 3 from those 4 still seems a bit thin for a tournament, especially considering Walker's not exactly a natural performer there and it's a 26 man squad... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Walker did play there in the World Cup, plus one of Shaw/Chilwell could fill in at LCB in an emergency, even Rice could. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm convinced that we are playing a back 3 without Maguire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Albrighton Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 50 minutes ago, enigmatic said: 3 from those 4 still seems a bit thin for a tournament, especially considering Walker's not exactly a natural performer there and it's a 26 man squad... Even more thin when Mings isnt even the best CB at Villa. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluedave Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Imagine the state of our centre backs if Stones hadn't turned it around this season. Year ago he was pretty much zero chance playing this summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 hours ago, afced7 said: Gonna need to be a bloody good free kick to score it from his sofa. I underestimated the hamster in the wheel in Southgate's head! I'm not saying he should be first choice or even starting, but to not be in the squad at all is daft. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astafjevs Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Let's be honest, he's **** and the players that have been picked ahead of him are better. He's essentially lost out to Bellingham and I don't think anyone in their right mind would complain at that decision. If you calculate those stats per 90, as you should when one player has played over 500 minutes more than the next guy, he's middle of the pack for most of them. Cba to work all of them out, but successful tackles per 90 is lower than Phillips and Bellingham. And not really that much better than Mount or Rice. One goal from open play is no better than anyone else. WhoScored suggests all 7 of those assists were from set pieces - 4 from corners, 3 from free kicks. So 0 assists from open play for a midfielder that played the full 90 minutes in all 38 Premier League games. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Genuine question for the people who want to see England 'open up' a bit more - is it because you think it would be better to watch or because you think it will be more effective? As far as I can remember the last time a World Cup/Euros was won by the most entertaining team was Brazil in 2002, though perhaps I'm doing a disservice to Spain 2008 and Germany 2014. By and large the best team to watch blitzes a couple of teams in the group stage and looks great until they come up against one of the best teams at which point they go out (Spain 06, Holland 08 and Colombia 14 the ones that immediately spring to mind but I'm sure there are others) while the tournament is won by a pragmatic side who are set up to play safe first and foremost. Perhaps in 6 weeks time I'll look like an idiot for saying this but in a tournament with 7 games in 4 weeks, at the end of an incredibly congested season where the majority of players already look absolutely cooked I can't see how going more gung-ho is logical over prioritising solidity and conserving energy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 better to watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pearcey_90 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Better/more effective. If playing 3 at the back has seen us under Gareth narrowly lose games, where we’ve been the better side and not had the break then it’s fine. But it hasn’t been, nearly every time we play 3 at the back against a semi good team, we lack ideas and options forward because it ends up being a back 5, with 2 CMs on the CBs toes. Then then the 2 ‘wingers’ have to drop and try and get on the ball really deep, leaving Kane isolated up top. Turns into the opposition can then control the game more easily in our half, and eventually break us down because even with all those defenders we’re not good at defending Players IMO are just not suited to that system, and Gareth isn’t a good enough coach to drill them into it to be effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 5 hours ago, Astafjevs said: WhoScored suggests all 7 of those assists were from set pieces - 4 from corners, 3 from free kicks. Are assists from set pieces and goals from set pieces not assists and goals? Why write them off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc91 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 24 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said: Are assists from set pieces and goals from set pieces not assists and goals? Why write them off? He didn't, he said he has zero assists from open play which shows the most common proved theory that set pieces aside, JWP is just a run of the midfielder and others do the jobs required much better, and let's be real, there is a reason he is still at Southampton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Squad on paper sounds good But having Southgate as manager really inspires zero confidence that the cup is coming home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 7 hours ago, Astafjevs said: Let's be honest, he's **** and the players that have been picked ahead of him are better. He's essentially lost out to Bellingham and I don't think anyone in their right mind would complain at that decision. If you calculate those stats per 90, as you should when one player has played over 500 minutes more than the next guy, he's middle of the pack for most of them. Cba to work all of them out, but successful tackles per 90 is lower than Phillips and Bellingham. And not really that much better than Mount or Rice. One goal from open play is no better than anyone else. WhoScored suggests all 7 of those assists were from set pieces - 4 from corners, 3 from free kicks. So 0 assists from open play for a midfielder that played the full 90 minutes in all 38 Premier League games. Tbf those stats aren't bad considering that unlike the others, he wasn't playing for a complete disaster of a football team Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Have you guys not seen how many 20's JWP has on FM? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdunk Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Robokid87 said: Genuine question for the people who want to see England 'open up' a bit more - is it because you think it would be better to watch or because you think it will be more effective? For me, I just don't trust our defence enough to think that we can actually win a tournament by grinding out results. We aren't going to go 7 games without Stones or Pickford or whoever gifting a vital goal to the opposition. And if we're set up to be solid and suddenly have to get a goal from somewhere, it's a big mentality change needed. We don't have to go completely gung-ho, but I don't want to see us start with 3 centre halves, 2 holding midfielders and Mason Mount stuck out wide in the front 3. The fitness aspect is why we should have taken as many forwards and midfielders as we could, not a million right backs. If we have to rotate Sancho, Foden, Sterling and Rashford for the wider positions, then fine by me. And of course, it's an English team, so being defensive means we just sit deeper and deeper and hit the ball longer and longer and cede possession to the other team. Get on the front foot, keep the ball and make the other team do the running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 8 hours ago, Robokid87 said: Genuine question for the people who want to see England 'open up' a bit more - is it because you think it would be better to watch or because you think it will be more effective? As far as I can remember the last time a World Cup/Euros was won by the most entertaining team was Brazil in 2002, though perhaps I'm doing a disservice to Spain 2008 and Germany 2014. By and large the best team to watch blitzes a couple of teams in the group stage and looks great until they come up against one of the best teams at which point they go out (Spain 06, Holland 08 and Colombia 14 the ones that immediately spring to mind but I'm sure there are others) while the tournament is won by a pragmatic side who are set up to play safe first and foremost. Perhaps in 6 weeks time I'll look like an idiot for saying this but in a tournament with 7 games in 4 weeks, at the end of an incredibly congested season where the majority of players already look absolutely cooked I can't see how going more gung-ho is logical over prioritising solidity and conserving energy. Both. We just don't have a defence that's going to keep the opposition out and grind our way to a trophy. Our strength is midfield and attack. Better off trying to win 2/3-1 than 1-0 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 15 hours ago, arenaross said: It's Southgate so there is no chance we're getting anything other than a team with a solid 7-8 defensive minded players. Is that counting the GK or not? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, skybluedave said: Imagine the state of our centre backs if Stones hadn't turned it around this season. Year ago he was pretty much zero chance playing this summer. The CB options for England in 2021 is in a very poor state. Edited June 2, 2021 by craigcwwe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Mount should be booted out the squad immediately for this clobber. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartwork Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Heartwork said: All Nike keeper shirts are the same style in different colours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Seriously is there a more scummier place than Sports Direct Wife gets a 20% off code for being NHS, so I think right going to get the 3 boys the full England kit for the Euros Put my older son the Goalie Kit and Home Kit in the basket, it says free name offer, so put Pickford and Foden. I then add 2 kits in for my twins Total before discount is £268, I add the 20% discount code, it takes all the 'FREE' names and stuff off, adds the cost of it, totals the price at £293, then takes 20% off that for a total of £251 They're ****ing thieving twats aren't they The goalie and home kit now costs me more with the name with the 20% off code Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuelawachie Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) I think people seriously underestimate how much having nearly-perfect set-plays are in a big international tournament. Most of these teams are more or less evenly matched especially if all the big boys play to their potential and reach the meaty stages of the competition. It is in games like that, and in times like that, that you will have just the little edge of having someone that can just produce some bit of magic from something so "simple". I've seen it so many times with Beckham, Juninho, and Messi or even on long-throws. There are times in games that having just that little extra wins it surprisingly. I would've taken him over Saka, or one of the right-backs. Well we shall see how it goes. Edited June 2, 2021 by samuelawachie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuelawachie Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 When it comes to controlling a midfield in a big game, the England squad will not compete favorably with the other traditional bigger sides. I fear that their midfield is weak and will necessitate a long ball/passes and/or counter-attacking style of play. I'm fascinated by how England even after all this time haven't learnt that "controlling the midfield" is key in BIG matches. That's the reason Chelsea won their 2nd UCL trophy last week. That's the reason some of the spanish sides have been successful in the past. And Germany too. They just never learn... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, samuelawachie said: I think people seriously underestimate how much having nearly-perfect set-plays are in a big international tournament. Most of these teams are more or less evenly matched especially if all the big boys play to their potential and reach the meaty stages of the competition. It is in games like that, and in times like that, that you will have just the little edge of having someone that can just produce some bit of magic from something so "simple". I've seen it so many times with Beckham, Juninho, and Messi or even on long-throws. There are times in games that having just that little extra wins it surprisingly. I would've taken him over Saka, or one of the right-backs. Well we shall see how it goes. England has no shortage of quality options to take right-footed set pieces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza D Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Barry Cartman said: Seriously is there a more scummier place than Sports Direct Wife gets a 20% off code for being NHS, so I think right going to get the 3 boys the full England kit for the Euros Put my older son the Goalie Kit and Home Kit in the basket, it says free name offer, so put Pickford and Foden. I then add 2 kits in for my twins Total before discount is £268, I add the 20% discount code, it takes all the 'FREE' names and stuff off, adds the cost of it, totals the price at £293, then takes 20% off that for a total of £251 They're ****ing thieving twats aren't they The goalie and home kit now costs me more with the name with the 20% off code Thought you were going to say they tried to charge you for your older son. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuelawachie Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 10 minutes ago, XuluBak said: England has no shortage of quality options to take right-footed set pieces. Way to miss the point. I didn’t say they don’t have quality right-footed players to take set-plays. When you have someone that’s sitting at the table with the best in the world at a particular skill, you give him serious consideration. I just assume Southgate did and he and he alone will be responsible for the decision, like always. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 How many set pieces have Messi, Beckham, Juninho, JWP scored in a World Cup Semi Final?... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haguey Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: How many set pieces have Messi, Beckham, Juninho, JWP scored in a World Cup Semi Final?... Only players to score in a semi-final or later for England in either a WC or Euro's since the 66 World Cup - Lineker, Shearer and Trippier. He deserves some damn respect. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samuelawachie Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 14 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said: How many set pieces have Messi, Beckham, Juninho, JWP scored in a World Cup Semi Final?... And taking set-pieces is just one particular skill. I could’ve said the same thing if they had one of the best passers of a football (like Riquelme) or one of the best headers (like Crouch) or something else very specific. Those players didn’t offer greater than standard in other areas of the game but were highly valued members due to their unusual skill. A very powerful shot. Two-footedness. Prodigious dribbling ability. Anything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigcwwe Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, samuelawachie said: When it comes to controlling a midfield in a big game, the England squad will not compete favorably with the other traditional bigger sides. I fear that their midfield is weak and will necessitate a long ball/passes and/or counter-attacking style of play. I'm fascinated by how England even after all this time haven't learnt that "controlling the midfield" is key in BIG matches. That's the reason Chelsea won their 2nd UCL trophy last week. That's the reason some of the spanish sides have been successful in the past. And Germany too. They just never learn... Partly why I don't like the 343, quickly turns int a 523 and you're pushed back if not done right. It's going to be the system of choice though sadly and we'll be forced to play counter attack football and on the back foot when we play a team as good or better than we are. Edited June 2, 2021 by craigcwwe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XuluBak Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 36 minutes ago, samuelawachie said: Way to miss the point. I didn’t say they don’t have quality right-footed players to take set-plays. When you have someone that’s sitting at the table with the best in the world at a particular skill, you give him serious consideration. I just assume Southgate did and he and he alone will be responsible for the decision, like always. I didn't miss your point. I'm saying the margins aren't significant enough to make a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, XuluBak said: I didn't miss your point. I'm saying the margins aren't significant enough to make a difference. If you're in a position where set pieces make such big margins, your actual style of play is massively compromised Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 Saying this as someone who probably would have taken Ward-Prowse in the 26, but I don't know why people are massively inflating the importance of his set piece ability. Yeah, he's absolutely outstanding at them, but given the players who are comfortably ahead of him, baring injury how much is he even going to play? Even as an impact sub, you'd be throwing him on in the hope of getting a set piece that might not even happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Albrighton Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 6 hours ago, arenaross said: Mount should be booted out the squad immediately for this clobber. Took me ages to get this because i honestly didnt realise that was actually Mount in the picture for a while 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 29 minutes ago, Pukey said: Saying this as someone who probably would have taken Ward-Prowse in the 26, but I don't know why people are massively inflating the importance of his set piece ability. Yeah, he's absolutely outstanding at them, but given the players who are comfortably ahead of him, baring injury how much is he even going to play? Even as an impact sub, you'd be throwing him on in the hope of getting a set piece that might not even happen. Yeah, like say you’re losing 1-0 with 15 minutes to go, Ward Prowse like for like with Henderson, Bellingham or Phillips isn’t that much of an impact sub and you might not even get a free kick or corner before the end of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
av3ry Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I've just tried putting it into a formation. wont be... Pickford Trippier--Coady--Mings Alexander Arnold--Rice--Bellingham--Saka Lingard--Kane--Grealish Would it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, PaulHartman71 said: Yeah, like say you’re losing 1-0 with 15 minutes to go, Ward Prowse like for like with Henderson, Bellingham or Phillips isn’t that much of an impact sub and you might not even get a free kick or corner before the end of the game. Yeah exactly. You'll be bringing on whoever's on the bench out of Grealish, Sancho, Sterling, and/or DCL as an extra striker or something. Not Ward-Prowse just in the hope we get a set piece to increase our chance of a goal by about 1% seeing as it's not like the options we have without him are exactly terrible at them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rob1981 said: Wonder if Bellingham and Rice will become the first choice midfield pair with Phillips and Henderson as the back up choices? Bellingham really has impressed me when I've watched him this season. Ridiculously gifted for a 17 year old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulHartman71 Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Pukey said: Yeah exactly. You'll be bringing on whoever's on the bench out of Grealish, Sancho, Sterling, and/or DCL as an extra striker or something. Not Ward-Prowse just in the hope we get a set piece to increase our chance of a goal by about 1% seeing as it's not like the options we have without him are exactly terrible at them. Does Kane even let JWP take one over him if it came to it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Adam Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 hours ago, Barry Cartman said: Seriously is there a more scummier place than Sports Direct Wife gets a 20% off code for being NHS, so I think right going to get the 3 boys the full England kit for the Euros Put my older son the Goalie Kit and Home Kit in the basket, it says free name offer, so put Pickford and Foden. I then add 2 kits in for my twins Total before discount is £268, I add the 20% discount code, it takes all the 'FREE' names and stuff off, adds the cost of it, totals the price at £293, then takes 20% off that for a total of £251 They're ****ing thieving twats aren't they The goalie and home kit now costs me more with the name with the 20% off code I think that's more to do with the limitations of their e-commerce system than a decision they've made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arenaross Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 What 4D formation are you trying here then Gareth? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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