keeper not distributing to TM/specific player

[fraudiola]

My target man is basically the only one up field good enough to win headers consistently but my keeper keeps distributing to my weakest player. Almost the exact same tactic worked perfectly at my previous club. I'm completely stumped. 

    

[kingjericho]

Who's the keeper passing to? He has good kicking but his passing is only 10 so he might not be aiming the kicks correctly.

Also, how did you conclude this? Watching the match, analysis, etc? One thing that could happen is the keeper is actually kicking the ball to the TM but he loses all aerial duels so that is not shown in the highlights.

[fraudiola]

7 minutes ago, kingjericho said:

Who's the keeper passing to? He has good kicking but his passing is only 10 so he might not be aiming the kicks correctly.

Also, how did you conclude this? Watching the match, analysis, etc? One thing that could happen is the keeper is actually kicking the ball to the TM but he loses all aerial duels so that is not shown in the highlights.

He sure is accurate with picking out our weakest player lol 

  VS  

I'm watching matches in full till I sort this out. I can try to find a keeper with a high passing rating next window. 

[Experienced Defender]

24 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

He sure is accurate with picking out our weakest player lol

Okay, but who is your weakest player the keeper is distributing to? Which position does he play in your formation?

[fraudiola]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, but who is your weakest player the keeper is distributing to? Which position does he play in your formation?

the LW in the screenshot on the left and my TM is the one on the right 

Edited May 16, 2021 by fraudiola

[Experienced Defender]

2 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

the LW in the screenshot on the left and my TM is the one on the right 

So your keeper is actually distributing the ball to your AML (left winger) instead of the target man, right?

If that happens only occasionally, then it could have to do with the Counter instruction. But if that happens all the time (always), then it is either a bug or is associated with some obvious flaws in your tactic as a whole.

[fraudiola]

Just now, Experienced Defender said:

So your keeper is actually distributing the ball to your AML (left winger) instead of the target man, right?

If that happens only occasionally, then it could have to do with the Counter instruction. But if that happens all the time (always), then it is either a bug or is associated with some obvious flaws in your tactic as a whole.

The keeper is more or less aiming for LW only from goal kicks but a little more mixed from open play. I'll try taking off counter for a few games. Would passing attribute have anything to with long kicks? 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

Would passing attribute have anything to with long kicks?

Yes, but I don't think that's the main reason in this case. 

 

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

The keeper is more or less aiming for LW only from goal kicks but a little more mixed from open play

Does he ever aim for the target man or never?

[fraudiola]

15 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Yes, but I don't think that's the main reason in this case. 

 

Does he ever aim for the target man or never?

goal kicks wise, some games never

[davenumber40]

Is he in a position where your goal keeper could reach him? I'm wondering if the attack setting has him too far up the pitch. Maybe try a support duty and see if that helps? It may help with your link up play as well.

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, fraudiola said:

goal kicks wise, some games never

Okay, goal kicks belong to regular in-possession play, so they should not pertain to goalkeeper distribution, which is a transitional instruction. Having said that, you should pay attention to your GK's behavior in terms of distribution in situations when he gets the ball after an opposition attack has been intercepted, because that's part of attacking transition. For example, when he saves a shot by an opposition player and has the ball in his hands, what does he do with the ball in such situations.

Apart from that, you also need to know that the ME tends to virtually "punish" tactics that contain any kind of contradiction or imbalance, which can often be reflected exactly in things like the one you are experiencing (i.e. players failing to follow instructions you set). 

[silentwars]

I would try removing distribute to target man and distribute to position instead and see if the same issue occurs. 

[tiotom92]

When I played three strikers I asked my goalkeeper to kick it long to the target man in the middle. Yet every single goal kick he'd aim at the short striker on the left, no exceptions.

Edited May 17, 2021 by tiotom92

[phnompenhandy]

Maybe too obvious, but is the target man in acres of space, or is he being marked?

[fraudiola]

On 17/05/2021 at 01:41, Experienced Defender said:

Okay, goal kicks belong to regular in-possession play, so they should not pertain to goalkeeper distribution, which is a transitional instruction. Having said that, you should pay attention to your GK's behavior in terms of distribution in situations when he gets the ball after an opposition attack has been intercepted, because that's part of attacking transition. For example, when he saves a shot by an opposition player and has the ball in his hands, what does he do with the ball in such situations.

Apart from that, you also need to know that the ME tends to virtually "punish" tactics that contain any kind of contradiction or imbalance, which can often be reflected exactly in things like the one you are experiencing (i.e. players failing to follow instructions you set). 

tbh i've moved on and evolved the tactic and it is now set to distribute to CB. but if my GK distributes every goal kick to CBs then shouldn't distribute to target man pertain to goal kicks too?

 

can you elaborate on the "virtually punish" part? 

 

11 hours ago, tiotom92 said:

When I played three strikers I asked my goalkeeper to kick it long to the target man in the middle. Yet every single goal kick he'd aim at the short striker on the left, no exceptions.

i played an AF/Poach next to my TM here and there and every goal kick that's was directed towards the wing was directed towards the AF/Poach.

 

5 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Maybe too obvious, but is the target man in acres of space, or is he being marked?

i mean it's a goal kick... the regular sort of marking i suppose? 

[phnompenhandy]

17 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

i mean it's a goal kick... the regular sort of marking i suppose? 

The keeper won't pass to someone who's being marked, even if asked to. I ask mine to roll the ball out to my DLP.
But if he's being shadowed by a marker the keeper will hoof it safely upfield.

[Experienced Defender]

35 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

tbh i've moved on and evolved the tactic and it is now set to distribute to CB. but if my GK distributes every goal kick to CBs then shouldn't distribute to target man pertain to goal kicks too?

You are probably right, but it's hard for me to comment on a kind of issue I personally haven't experienced in any of my tactics. It might be a bug, but might also be about something in your tactic. Really impossible to give you a definite answer. 

 

39 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

can you elaborate on the "virtually punish" part? 

I can, but don't know what exactly was not clear in my statement: 

Quote

the ME tends to virtually "punish" tactics that contain any kind of contradiction or imbalance, which can often be reflected exactly in things like the one you are experiencing (i.e. players failing to follow instructions you set)

 

[fraudiola]

11 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

You are probably right, but it's hard for me to comment on a kind of issue I personally haven't experienced in any of my tactics. It might be a bug, but might also be about something in your tactic. Really impossible to give you a definite answer. 

 

I can, but don't know what exactly was not clear in my statement: 

 

in what ways does it punish you? 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

in what ways does it punish you? 

It does not literally punish you (that's why I put the word "punish" between quotation marks). The thing is, in almost all cases when people complain about something strange or unwanted happening in their matches (like your situation with GK distribution), there have turned out to be some flaw or contradiction in their tactic.

For example, the most obvious contradiction in your tactic is the use of a playmaker role (DLP) in DM. Because such role in such position does not make sense in relation to the style of play implied by the rest of your tactic. I mean, your entire tactic encourages players to skip the midfield and play the ball forward early, so what's then the point of having a role supposed to organize your play from a deeper area? I hope you understand what I mean.

Of course, I am not a game developer and don't know what exactly happens under the hood (ME), so I cannot claim for sure if that exactly is the cause of your problem with the keeper. It could also be due to your TM's attacking duty, because TM is likely to struggle when played on attack duty as a lone striker (simply because the role is not mobile enough to avoid potential isolation, especially when it's a ball-magnet role). 

So you can apply the following tweaks: change your DM's role from DLP into a non-playmaker role (standard DM or anchorman) and also change the TM's duty into support. Then watch what happens and report back 

[silentwars]

18 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

The keeper won't pass to someone who's being marked, even if asked to. I ask mine to roll the ball out to my DLP.
But if he's being shadowed by a marker the keeper will hoof it safely upfield.

I wonder if you ask the keeper to 'take more risks' will they distribute to your chosen player even if marked. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by silentwars

[Experienced Defender]

33 minutes ago, silentwars said:

I wonder if you ask the keeper to 'take more risks' will they distribute to your chosen player even if marked. 

The "take more risks" PI has nothing to do with keeper distribution. It only encourages the player to attempt passes behind the opposition back-line. In the case of GK, those passes are essentially long balls over the top or sometimes to a flank for an onrushing winger. But it does not tell the keeper to play such pass for a specific teammate.

[fraudiola]

10 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

It does not literally punish you (that's why I put the word "punish" between quotation marks). The thing is, in almost all cases when people complain about something strange or unwanted happening in their matches (like your situation with GK distribution), there have turned out to be some flaw or contradiction in their tactic.

so would missing countless 1v1s or being gifted weird goals count as a "punishment"? 

[Experienced Defender]

23 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

so would missing countless 1v1s or being gifted weird goals count as a "punishment"? 

Yes, exactly that kind of things.

[fraudiola]

22 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

For example, the most obvious contradiction in your tactic is the use of a playmaker role (DLP) in DM. Because such role in such position does not make sense in relation to the style of play implied by the rest of your tactic. I mean, your entire tactic encourages players to skip the midfield and play the ball forward early, so what's then the point of having a role supposed to organize your play from a deeper area? I hope you understand what I mean.

Of course, I am not a game developer and don't know what exactly happens under the hood (ME), so I cannot claim for sure if that exactly is the cause of your problem with the keeper. It could also be due to your TM's attacking duty, because TM is likely to struggle when played on attack duty as a lone striker (simply because the role is not mobile enough to avoid potential isolation, especially when it's a ball-magnet role). 

So you can apply the following tweaks: change your DM's role from DLP into a non-playmaker role (standard DM or anchorman) and also change the TM's duty into support. Then watch what happens and report back 

this is the tactic im working with currently but i changed dlp to cm to see if it changes anything. goal kicks are still directed towards LM which results in a turnover every time unless i play someone capable of winning header at LM. "in transition" kicks are mostly directed towards towards AF who knocks it down for TM who lacks pace to break away. i've got a beast of an AF and its amazing when it happens the other way around, one counter is all we need in some games. 

     

[Experienced Defender]

17 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

  

 

17 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

goal kicks are still directed towards LM

Judging from this picture, I would not be so sure that the keeper intentionally distributes the ball to the LM, even if the ball ends up there. What is your keeper's preferred foot? 

 

20 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

"in transition" kicks are mostly directed towards towards AF

This is most probably due to the Counter TI. 

 

21 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

 

Regardless of the keeper distribution problem, are you generally pleased with this 442 tactic in terms of results? I am asking because it looks worse than your original 4123 when it comes to the selection/distribution of roles and duties (and there is again a degree of inconsistency between different tactical elements as well). 

[fraudiola]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Judging from this picture, I would not be so sure that the keeper intentionally distributes the ball to the LM, even if the ball ends up there. What is your keeper's preferred foot? 

the ball ended at the left wing. draw a line from the keeper to the ball and beyond for the trajectory. keeper's preferred foot is left. 

 

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

This is most probably due to the Counter TI. 

i'll try taking off Counter but i hope it doesn't limit our direct over the top counters too much since we score a fair amount from those 

 

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Regardless of the keeper distribution problem, are you generally pleased with this 442 tactic in terms of results? I am asking because it looks worse than your original 4123 when it comes to the selection/distribution of roles and duties (and there is again a degree of inconsistency between different tactical elements as well). 

very pleased, just so happened to come across the guide below which drastically improved our run. my 442 was already pretty similar but i changed DLP/d to s for a more stable and flat 442, GK to SK, willing to sacrifice CF helping out on defense for an AF as as an outlet for counter attacks, and kept my wide roles as is for more customizability. 

A guide to defending like a real 442 - Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com) @cocoadavid

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

keeper's preferred foot is left

Well, that's exactly what I suspected based on the trajectory of the ball. 

 

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

i'll try taking off Counter but i hope it doesn't limit our direct over the top counters too much since we score a fair amount from those

You don't need to take off the counter. I mentioned the counter TI only as a potential explanation for the keeper aiming the ball at the AF in transition. 

 

1 hour ago, fraudiola said:

very pleased

Good 

[fraudiola]

still facing this issue. any other suggestions? 

playing against clubs that like to press it's either we eat a counter because the wide players are unable to win headers or i pick distribute to CBs where my CBs don't have the composure to deal with the press. 

[Experienced Defender]

35 minutes ago, fraudiola said:

still facing this issue. any other suggestions? 

playing against clubs that like to press it's either we eat a counter because the wide players are unable to win headers or i pick distribute to CBs where my CBs don't have the composure to deal with the press. 

The problem is that we can only speculate. Unless somebody who had the exact same issue and then managed to solve it sees your topic and jumps in to help. 

Anyway, this observation from @phnompenhandy makes sense to me, as I myself have also noticed the same in a number of situations: 

On 17/05/2021 at 23:25, phnompenhandy said:

The keeper won't pass to someone who's being marked, even if asked to. I ask mine to roll the ball out to my DLP.
But if he's being shadowed by a marker the keeper will hoof it safely upfield.

 

[fraudiola]

11 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The problem is that we can only speculate. Unless somebody who had the exact same issue and then managed to solve it sees your topic and jumps in to help. 

Anyway, this observation from @phnompenhandy makes sense to me, as I myself have also noticed the same in a number of situations: 

 

 

On 19/05/2021 at 14:54, fraudiola said:

   

i mean they seem equally marked on goal kicks. i could try to get a keeper with super high kicking just to experiment. 

[Experienced Defender]

I don't know what to say. Try whatever you think may help.

[fraudiola]

On 17/05/2021 at 11:06, silentwars said:

I would try removing distribute to target man and distribute to position instead and see if the same issue occurs.