Which FM has the best engine?

[Toshevbgg]

I am looking to play some of the older FM games?

Which one would say has the best engine last few years ? I thinK I have all games bought except 17 or 18 I have to check steam

[alian62]

FM17 is considered by most but not all to have the best engine

[silentwars]

I like FM 16, not sure about the others but I have played that one recently and enjoyed it. 

[Domoboy23]

9 hours ago, alian62 said:

FM17 is considered by most but not all to have the best engine

One of the worst for me!

FM13 (by absolute miles), FM21 then FM12 in my book. On FM13 players played with personality and quirks. - I had odd players who would dance with the ball and love a mazy central run. And you'd see their thinking process. Newgen players who became renowned for their last ditch tackles. Strikers who loved sliding in at the near post to connect to a ball. Strikers who would pummel the ball ahead of them to run onto, others with really short delicate touches. Found it a lot easier to appreciate defending too with diving headers, decisive interceptions etc.
On top of that? A match engine with reduced animations. Nowadays the animations are so many and often so poor I find myself having to play on 2D so i can imagine the fiddly animations myself instead. Which is part of the fun.

Worst? FM20, FM17, FM18

Just for me anyway 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Domoboy23

[Brother Ben]

I liked FM17 but it may just be because the system demands jumped steeply for the 3D in FM18.

My guess is though that most peoples answers will coincide with memorable saves they've had on that particular version so it may not be that reliable.  Nostalgia is a funny old thing  

[BuryBlade]

12 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

I liked FM17 but it may just be because the system demands jumped steeply for the 3D in FM18.

My guess is though that most peoples answers will coincide with memorable saves they've had on that particular version so it may not be that reliable.  Nostalgia is a funny old thing  

I think you are right regarding nostalgia. I think people will correlate the memories of their favourite saves with a good ME when it might not necessarily be true.

Personally I enjoyed FM17 the most. Visually, the pitches and stadia look better than they have done in recent games and the gameplay was more varied and interesting than 18-20 was.

[Brother Ben]

13 minutes ago, BuryBlade said:

Personally I enjoyed FM17 the most. Visually, the pitches and stadia look better than they have done in recent games and the gameplay was more varied and interesting than 18-20 was.

Yeah there's definitely a difference but I think it was necessary to take the game to the next level graphics wise in terms of the amount of animations etc  

One step back two steps forward kind of thing

[BuryBlade]

37 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Yeah there's definitely a difference but I think it was necessary to take the game to the next level graphics wise in terms of the amount of animations etc  

One step back two steps forward kind of thing

You might be right but the amount of issues in 20 and 21 ME have made it far less fun to play. Basic things reported in the first few weeks that have never been fixed (analysis still doesn’t work) and stuff from previous versions that still doesn’t work (players not following set piece instructions/positioning!) 

[Bradley21]

Absolutely zero chance i can remember the version numbers, but because the Football Manager Live (FML) engine was tweaked far more regularly than the base game the engines there would skew wildly between unplayably bad and absolutely incredible. At that point feedback was listened to and you could present stats to the devs and they would actually hold lengthy discourse with you, which doesn't happen now. 

They also had the beta worlds which were very good for this sort of thing. 

[whyidie]

I felt like 17 was the most flexible in terms of tactical diversity. Could create various attacking and defensive styles that were equally effective. 

[Rookie FM]

The most Perfect Match Engine(I know it is old and very dated but I love the game too much!) and Overall is FM 2010

2nd - FM 2017

3rd - FM 2013

4th - FM 2012

The only Weakness in FM 2010 is Youth System as most of them Half stars and I am not sure if the Youth system is better in FM 2011 or 2012 or 2013......

Edited May 19, 2021 by Rookie FM

[phd_angel]

Instead of relying on my limited subjective bias, I went to see what FM edition got the highest review ratings in the professional reviewers community as measured in the Metacritic score. Sorry, this is the game perception overall, not just match engine since it began in 2005. But we can count since FM 2009, which was the first 3D version ever (as such, please ignore scores for FM05 until FM08 if you want).

According to Metacritic, FM 2010 was the best 3D version of the game with 87%. It's closely followed by FM13 and FM19 with 86%.  In my opinion, the best 3D engine is the current one FM21, even as the game seems to have lagged behind in other fronts. Interestingly, you notice that throughout the 2010s the game deteriorated gradually between 2013 and 2018, according to Metacritic ratings.

Metacritic (average of reviewers ratings) for Football Manager since 2005:
FM05: 89% (2D only)
FM06: 89% (2D only)
FM07: 87% (2D only)
FM08: 86% (2D only)
FM09: 83% (first time in 3D, also the most pirated version ever due to a key glitch)
FM10: 87%
FM11: 85%
FM12: 84%
FM13: 86%
FM14: 85%
FM15: 80%
FM16: 81% 
FM17: 80%
FM18: 82%
FM19: 86%
FM20: 84%
FM21: 85%

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by phd_angel

[Pav_Makarov]

Anything before 19 imo.

[wazzaflow10]

On 17/05/2021 at 07:52, Domoboy23 said:

One of the worst for me!

FM13 (by absolute miles), FM21 then FM12 in my book. On FM13 players played with personality and quirks. - I had odd players who would dance with the ball and love a mazy central run. And you'd see their thinking process. Newgen players who became renowned for their last ditch tackles. Strikers who loved sliding in at the near post to connect to a ball. Strikers who would pummel the ball ahead of them to run onto, others with really short delicate touches. Found it a lot easier to appreciate defending too with diving headers, decisive interceptions etc.
On top of that? A match engine with reduced animations. Nowadays the animations are so many and often so poor I find myself having to play on 2D so i can imagine the fiddly animations myself instead. Which is part of the fun.

Worst? FM20, FM17, FM18

Just for me anyway 

Shows you how subjective this is. I hated 13 so much I went back to 2010 and didn't buy another FM until 16 came out. 13 had all sorts of odd ball physics  for me. couldn't wrap my head around it. I want to love this year's version but the set pieces are brutal.

[crpcarrot]

On 21/05/2021 at 01:12, wazzaflow10 said:

Shows you how subjective this is. I hated 13 so much I went back to 2010 and didn't buy another FM until 16 came out. 13 had all sorts of odd ball physics  for me. couldn't wrap my head around it. I want to love this year's version but the set pieces are brutal.

I can relate i bought FM13 on release and hated the ME so much i didn't touch FM till a couple of months ago (After combined 3k hours on fm10 an FM12)

however the ME doesn't seem so bad now maybe due to patches etc but still had a load of long passes straight out of the ground in the lower leagues but not as many as on release. players also appear to be drugged on normal speed.

[wazzaflow10]

1 hour ago, crpcarrot said:

I can relate i bought FM13 on release and hated the ME so much i didn't touch FM till a couple of months ago (After combined 3k hours on fm10 an FM12)

however the ME doesn't seem so bad now maybe due to patches etc but still had a load of long passes straight out of the ground in the lower leagues but not as many as on release. players also appear to be drugged on normal speed.

I don't know about drugged lol. But there's a lot of odd representations of the ME at times. A game I just played had Delany just dwell on the ball for with no pressure and open passing options all around him. He decided to pass the ball back to Hummels who was completely covered by the opposing striker. 3 seconds later I give away a penalty  and lose the game. There was 30 seconds left before f/t. I don't know any player at that level that would make that decision. 

The only thing I can think of is the graphics didn't match the ME's calculation. 

[crpcarrot]

i have not played higher leagues with FM13 but the weird stuff is more pronounced in lower leagues. i guess have to put it down to the graphics interface interpreting the number crunching and the low skills of the players.

[Etebaer]

I liked FM13 quite a lot and the reason i did not buy another one til FM16 was that i allways want to make my own club and FM16 was the first i know of that allowed me to do that.

FM13 and FM21 be my favs...though i have FM21 quite a lot modded with realism patches etc. it is in fact the most modded FM i ever played and unmodded i would not play it.

Edited July 6, 2021 by Etebaer

[JAwtunes]

On 17/05/2021 at 13:07, Brother Ben said:

I liked FM17 but it may just be because the system demands jumped steeply for the 3D in FM18.

My guess is though that most peoples answers will coincide with memorable saves they've had on that particular version so it may not be that reliable.  Nostalgia is a funny old thing  

CM2.  I was a kid during Italia90 and loved my Milan and Fiorentina saves on CM2... so of course CM2 was the greatest

The audio commentary was legendary!

[Brother Ben]

3 hours ago, JAwtunes said:

CM2.  I was a kid during Italia90 and loved my Milan and Fiorentina saves on CM2... so of course CM2 was the greatest

The audio commentary was legendary!

Similar story here, I still play CM2 every now and then It was such a leap from CM93

[XaW]

37 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Similar story here, I still play CM2 every now and then It was such a leap from CM93

I started with this one:

Would be fun to pop back into it, but I doubt I could make it work anymore...

[Federico]

I'd say FM21, but I'm also particulary fond to FM07

[Brother Ben]

4 minutes ago, XaW said:

I start with this one:

Would be fun to pop back into it, but I doubt I could make it work anymore...

I've got you covered  

https://www.the9llamas.com/retro/championship-manager/championship-manager-norge

 

 

[samuelawachie]

On 07/07/2021 at 11:34, Federico said:

I'd say FM21, but I'm also particulary fond to FM07

FM07, 12 and 14 for me. Will find it hard to choose between those three. 

Started with 07 where Bent was banging it in and Aguero was just a wonderkid

Then 12 where if you signed Pace you had a good chance of winning lol. But then that ME was at the top of the developmental cycle of its era.

Then 14 that I've played for years now, till today.

Surprisingly though, those games were all the ones where I had the most fun saves. Says a lot about threads like this or the human perception of things. 

[Daveincid]

This can only be answered seriously by Chris Hammond, Jeremy Clarkson or James May 

Back to being serious: 
I think the newest Match-Engine is always the best, because it's improved from year to year. So FM21 for me

 

[pauloolivieri]

FM21 for me so far. I didn't play the 22 and many people say it's even better. But, for me, FM21 has the best engine by miles. It's the most realistic and less flawed (although some things like players running like crazy to get a ball that is going for a throw-in for their own side just to not make it and touch the ball and lose the throw-in really **** me off).

I played a lot of FM05 (before some update, Henry was a monster at Barça), but it could be very easy. FM08 was my favorite before 3D. I turned a Brazilian Third Division team into the best side in the planet (spoiler: Bahia's youth at that version was a scandal). FM16 was when I first noticed a change in the matches, with really nice through balls. I have a great save with Tottenham and managed to make my team play some great football. FM18 pissed me off in the beggining because of the terrible long shots. But after finding the right tactic, I could succeed with any side. Also have great saves there.

But I saw many saying that FM17 was the best. I never had it, so I got myself a copy to try it, and I must say, so far, that the engine is quite nice. Fluid, smooth, very good looking graphics and less flaws than 16 and 18. It's been fun so far, as I took a break on FM21 and these old versions are much faster to play.

[Carmi88]

Fm12  

[Erimus1876]

  

On 17/05/2021 at 22:26, whyidie said:

I felt like 17 was the most flexible in terms of tactical diversity. Could create various attacking and defensive styles that were equally effective. 

 

Yep, definitely this.

 

FM17 for me.

I've played 12, 14, 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21.  I always go back to playing 17 as its not only the most balanced engine*, but its also streets ahead of every other version when it comes to graphics, lighting, and stadium variety (and that includes the later versions which have been a big a step back in the visuals imo).

*(as long as you avoid playing 3 up top, which remains a bit overpowered in many versions of FM)

 

Stadium variety and lighting on FM17 is still the best...

Spoiler

 

[enigmatic]

FM17 is laughably unbalanced in midfield as well. Wide players stay wide in defence, so if you have one more man in the middle than your opponents it's easy to dominate possession. And it's easy to overload the penalty area too. Yes, this means there are a lot of different tactics that can destroy the dreadful standard AI formations even with much worse players, but that ain't balance...

The lighting might be nice but dribbles and turning on the ball animation are poor and playing out the back nonexistent compared with the last couple of versions, which really matters more (if stadium designs and lighting matter more than the quality of football that's what FIFA is for...)

FM21 is the best in terms of resembling actual football unless and until they rebalance possession in FM22

[Druid DR]

On 16/05/2021 at 12:48, Toshevbgg said:

I am looking to play some of the older FM games?

Which one would say has the best engine last few years ? I thinK I have all games bought except 17 or 18 I have to check steam

All versions are flawed so I guess it depends on what you consider the best for you, and the one you find the most fun.

FM2017 was the most enjoyable all round version for me as its graphically better than all the others and the engine is fine if you don't purposely use overpowered tactics - which is the exact same case on pretty much all versions to be honest.   They all have their strengths and weaknesses, so you won't find a "best" version, as its all subjective.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Druid DR

[rp1966]

When FM20 proved have such a poor ME, I went back to FM17 - it just plays really nice football in a variety of tactics - it has flaws; they all do, but it is one of the better ones.  It also helps that the 3D match visualisation looks better than those from FM18 onwards. The lighting is the biggest factor, I think, the current one is horrible and has been ever since the FM18 invasion of the picnic tables.

FM21 ME was really good - I liked the fact that attacking play was made much more incisive, so good chances became goals at a convincing rate and in a convincing manner - FM20 always felt severely nerfed.  Unfortunately FM22 also gives some FM20ish vibes around chance conversion.  In lots of ways it is a match for FM21, so I've not gone back, but attacking play seems very timid again compared to FM21.

As far as match visualisation is concerned, I think the player modelling and animations have improved in the post-FM18 engine and FM22 has taken a bit of step forward again in that department, but SI really do need to sort out the lighting and stadium modelling - it really isn't good enough for a modern game. I'm not asking for Unreal Engine 5 standards, but stadium models could be more architecturally convincing (without hitting licensing issues) and weather and lighting should take a generational shift forward.  .

 

[wilfy]

There has been no mention of FM22?  where does this fit in?

[alian62]

4 hours ago, wilfy said:

There has been no mention of FM22?  where does this fit in?

This post started before FM22 came out so a lot of these posts ae old . But i would say its the best of the lot with FM17 and 12 a close second

[ScotchWhisky]

I don't know for sure as I don't understand the intricacies of football.  However, I have played FM09, 11, 13, 15, 21 (barely), and now 22.  At some point between 15 and 22, they seem to have fixed the alligator legs issue.  You know, where a player would grow alligator legs trying to chase down a ball so the opposing player can get it first.  It was just a way for the ME to force a result.  I haven't noticed that once so far through nearly two season on FM 22.  Oh, how I remember the time in, I believe '13, a ball was slowly rolling towards my keeper who ran up to it, inexplicably tried to fall on it, missed, and it gradually rolled into the net.  Hahaha

One thing I noticed in FM '21 (which I only played a bit) and FM '22 is it seems key plays have changed a bit.  Perhaps it is confirmation bias, but in older versions, many key plays seemed to start with the team that doesn't get the shot with possession.  That's not including plays that start with goal kicks or long free kicks.  This version, it seems that unless a team is totally outmatched, key plays almost always begin with the team that is going to get the shot off.  It's not quite as exciting or nail-biting.

Edited January 27, 2022 by ScotchWhisky

[SimonHoddle]

The game is all about opinions of course but this is undebatable! 17 was by far and away the best graphically and ME. The lighting was outstanding and the game play in match was varied and innovative. Creative players created beautiful goals and opportunities.

I will never ever know why SI broke something that was fixed so beautifully and they have never given an explanation. God knows how great it would be now if they continued with that formula.

instead we had barren years of awful graphics and terrible match play which has only recently been addressed (21 and 22 with a gradual return to form). 

however I play on my Xbox X now and still think the game is visually and ME inferior to 17. I don’t know what developer they sacked and who they hired after 17 but it was a leap backwards.

it’s a relief to see it heading back in the right direction 

Edited January 28, 2022 by SimonHoddle

[ScotchWhisky]

55 minutes ago, SimonHoddle said:

however I play on my Xbox X now

Hmmm..  I feel this is probably your biggest mistake.  How could one handle navigating all the menus with a controller?

[Mitja]

21 by far. Then 17. 

[SimonHoddle]

7 hours ago, ScotchWhisky said:

Hmmm..  I feel this is probably your biggest mistake.  How could one handle navigating all the menus with a controller?

Play it on my iPad Pro on the cloud using touch screen. It means I can play with consummate ease whilst the family sleeps. Otherwise I would have rarely played for those exact reasons.

[Dagenham_Dave]

FM17 was the best looking 3D engine, no doubt about it, but for the actual match engine itself (ie what goes on under the hood), then I think FM21 is the best. the engine has taken a step backwards this year, unfortunately. 

Back on the topic of FM17 though, I just wish SI would improve the lighting and pitch textures back to what it was in that game. The whole thing just looked so much better, which adds to the immersion. For a 5 year old version of the game to look better than the current one is pretty unforgiveable, even if the current one has the better actual engine. 

[Erimus1876]

14 hours ago, SimonHoddle said:

The game is all about opinions of course but this is undebatable! 17 was by far and away the best graphically and ME. The lighting was outstanding and the game play in match was varied and innovative. Creative players created beautiful goals and opportunities.

I will never ever know why SI broke something that was fixed so beautifully and they have never given an explanation. God knows how great it would be now if they continued with that formula.

instead we had barren years of awful graphics and terrible match play which has only recently been addressed (21 and 22 with a gradual return to form). 

however I play on my Xbox X now and still think the game is visually and ME inferior to 17. I don’t know what developer they sacked and who they hired after 17 but it was a leap backwards.

it’s a relief to see it heading back in the right direction 

 

3 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

FM17 was the best looking 3D engine, no doubt about it, but for the actual match engine itself (ie what goes on under the hood), then I think FM21 is the best. the engine has taken a step backwards this year, unfortunately. 

Back on the topic of FM17 though, I just wish SI would improve the lighting and pitch textures back to what it was in that game. The whole thing just looked so much better, which adds to the immersion. For a 5 year old version of the game to look better than the current one is pretty unforgiveable, even if the current one has the better actual engine. 

 

It still baffles me why the matchday graphics after FM17 were radically changed (for the worse imo).

But it wasn't just the visuals that got downgraded, SI also removed a wealth of graphical and lighting options we once had...

 

 

We also had lots of different camera angles to choose from too...

 

FM17 was not only graphically better looking, it had far more stadium variety and stadium backdrops.  Those backdrops also had different cultural aesthetics to them, depending on which country you were managing in.  All those little things add so much to the whole matchday experience.  Since FM17, its become very sterile and 'samey' in that respect.

I think it was mentioned on here before that if we could have FM17's visuals, lighting, stadium variety, graphical options, and camera choices, along with FM21/22's ME, we'd be in FM heaven. 

I know a lot of players don't think those things are important, and rightly they should always be secondary to the ME match-play itself, but in a game that needs to constantly evolve and attract new players, there'll come a time when the graphics will need a overhaul, or at least something that gets them back on par with what FM17 offered.  No one expects FIFA graphics, just FM17's will do!

 

More beautiful stadium pics from my current FM17 save ( a trip dowm memory lane)... 

Spoiler

 

[SimonHoddle]

2 hours ago, Erimus1876 said:

 

 

It still baffles me why the matchday graphics after FM17 were radically changed (for the worse imo).

But it wasn't just the visuals that got downgraded, SI also removed a wealth of graphical and lighting options we once had...

 

 

We also had lots of different camera angles to choose from too...

 

FM17 was not only graphically better looking, it had far more stadium variety and stadium backdrops.  Those backdrops also had different cultural aesthetics to them, depending on which country you were managing in.  All those little things add so much to the whole matchday experience.  Since FM17, its become very sterile and 'samey' in that respect.

I think it was mentioned on here before that if we could have FM17's visuals, lighting, stadium variety, graphical options, and camera choices, along with FM21/22's ME, we'd be in FM heaven. 

I know a lot of players don't think those things are important, and rightly they should always be secondary to the ME match-play itself, but in a game that needs to constantly evolve and attract new players, there'll come a time when the graphics will need a overhaul, or at least something that gets them back on par with what FM17 offered.  No one expects FIFA graphics, just FM17's will do!

 

More beautiful stadium pics from my current FM17 save ( a trip dowm memory lane)... 

  Reveal hidden contents

Couldn’t agree more. Please anyone name one other game that has ditched its graphics to replace with something with far less quality. The real frustration on this is the complete silence from SI. why on earth did you do this???

 

[footballmanager1234]

TLDR - 22, I think obviously once you get to it and adjust to it.  For example in 22 I will change my line of attack much more during a game - reacting more to intricacies of the game is one of the things I suggested ages ago and which was done no doubt a while back Because I believe now in hindsight I have seen this being worked towards and others may have mentioned it too of course, but to have to react mid game is key to linking it up with the stats, both take on MORE meaning, and I try now to go round defences whereas I was not doing this in even 21 [which is more auto pilot where you just put on subs or maybe go cautious or positive but no major adjusts]!  In 22 if you say higher tempo the guys do that, slightly then more - you can suggest this and it plays out; slower, faster, press more, less, which person to press; players get caught in holes more, in corners more, the try to beat each other more (though the animations do not reflect this as much as in 2d) but you get the idea.  In 22 its been made clear how and when I should set an offside trap (I mean I do not play OP formations and tactics usually though yes I do have one option as gengenpress) and I adjust defensive line more and the visual game is more of a tussle and players run to close down like you see at games, and its just a better brand of football, patient if need be and faster if need be; importantly you can react more as you play it, to what it does.  As good as 17 is, its veritable auto-pilot compared to this.  Nor do I think 21 is any less a game but 22 is better.  

In 22 if you say control possession and all the rest, they will control possession and make their way up field sometimes not all that well, other times they get a roll-on.  This is not the case in 17; in 17 and others around that era they were in a rush and all the rest.  You could not get the full feel of such a tactic.  But you didn't mind as it fit into the sim-world.  Its fleshed out now.  In 22 it looks like more and more the AI as limited as AI can be, it begins to make more sense of evolving situations according to the tactics at least to a casual look (we know they are not sentient beings) - in 17 for example the way to play was to get the ball up there.  In 22, it unfolds much more like proper football and in movement and passing.  I understand that the speed of movement is the same and tactical variance between top and bottom clubs is somewhat nullified in terms of standard deviation distance to simply make the whole system work and be predictable, total permutation like in the real world is too much to ask for but it is what it is - and it helps to reflect that data you see and work with to make them play better; all that is interwoven so well now.  At least now passes can be under or over more, and they do sprint and speed up, but in future its obviously going get developed further.  I am just recognising that the 22 match engine is clearly out in front as to all the titles.  

As to graphics I personally think looking at 17 back to back with 22 demo that graphics for stadia complexity is on par or better now; I think the lighting is less garish, but in future who knows like in fallout 4 or skyrim they may be able to do that super-modern looking daylight, but for visibility I think 2022 is much better if that makes sense on top of my other assertion over quality.  I wish there were more variety perhaps but I see good/chunky stadia with geometric depth.  From about 17 onwards with analyst view you got a much better feel for stadia.  But these days it also translates into the other camera's too.  

 Re-format long form details of why I think 22, but at first i thought 17 like so many others; neither a bad game btw.  I have a premable for context and a scientific part in middle I will highlight.  It came to my attention via a video labelled First look at FM manager 2022, highlighted several things.  One was opposition instructions and I had played 22 demo a fair bit.  Op instructions matter more than in 2017 though I will go on to say I liked that engine.  The truth is 22 is ages in front of that.  As is the purchase price of players incrementally over the years.  It becomes difficult to say during this that 17 is better.  Though prior to my experiences with it all I may have said that despite enjoying it 100% and not playing it as much as 18.  50 hours (and 3 seasons) for example v 350.  In 2022 I don't mind also as years go on in life with this game to play it much slower and sink your teeth into it more, as is done.  In the modern engine you do have to be awake at the wheel a bit more, especially if you do what I do these days and begin with no more than 13-14 in manager traits and at mid-tier clubs, be they in the top flight or a couple down.  It becomes difficult I think for people above me, no offence, to say 17 was 'the best', I have come to see, over 21, its not technically.  

To assess some of this along with my playing time I actually because I had the 22 demo on, ran full matches side by side on 17, 21, 22.  Probably 3 of the key turning points or swings in the series.  Cant go into data and shouts and all that too much but that just got better. 

I played an hour a day on average some games in the series not all sitting at the computer but if its on a long match you can come and go or do other things sometimes, which is really good going if a game can give you an hour a day.  Others, barely 5 mins a day even though I did like them a lot.  Sometimes I whizzed through them across several seasons and got 'more' done, others I took my time and drawn out matches on full or comprehensive.  So trying to get to apples to apples; but also some years I did international management as well as club, other times not so. 

 

Premable 

By the time you read all this you won't remember I said this maybe but the rail camera in FM 17 REALLY sets off the whole engine, and those stadia and the non-ridiculous ad-board situation in 21 where in 17 the adboards are simply way more appropriate for football,  the whole engine is/was wonderful.  The 21 engine is fine for those but a lot was taken out like rail camera.  Its not in 22 as far as I can see.  And the air/atmosphere/graphical look is slightly better, iirc they had to tone that down for some people but its probably time to tone it back up in 23.  The 17 ME camera controls were bad as its difficult to navigate the UI but the options were more.  I think its surpassed in 22 overall but a shame its like it is by comparison to those things.  

I am currently playing 21 and not 22, only 22 demo.  I just came this year to 21 late.  I started it but never got into the save and a few false starts, but I am wanting to play it now alongside the 22 demo.  So I am behind, true.  

However as you read the scientific part you may come to understand other things went on and it was around 18 though I had pure enjoyment from the game (i mean that) I noticed that the passess basically were on rails, themselves.  They never really undershot or overshot and its as if the players were joined by a string and of course everyone knew that since 12 or 14 or something the defence didn't move as well as they could. 

For best engine when it comes to football play itself I do agree that 17 was so very, very good but obviously its eclipsed in total/overall by 21 and 22.  I completely enjoyed it for fun and felt it blended in with the overall game by that stage the best of any of the titles (in 2017/18; but looking back its more disjointed and not fully fleshed out - even when you watch full matches obviously 17 can't stand up as much to 22 and 21, but 17 had some good runs where 22 does not maybe as much though you get more complex play in 22 so there is no need to see such runs all the time, i get its fleshed out; above all its meant to simulate and 17-22 do that really well compared to 16 and prior in terms of visual and all the rest, its a good period for FM; and passing is better in 21/22 by a long way - 21/22 is just better football overall in many ways - but 17 is a gem no doubt!  So note my language and word I used - completely.  Maybe you will never see because of standard deviation bottom teams doing a certain way versus top teams, but its comparable at least a lot more now and the game versus visual simulation on match day is more nuanced; 17 you have to almost take as a whole block.  Its great but no where near as nuanced.  

 

I think 20 really made me question my game choices because it was the last of the old era; but 21 is like a new stage.  And 21 is great, too, its up there with 17 BUT I did not play it much until now, and I await to get 22 but I of course play the demo a lot. 

Which is the best game is the wider question with a 90% weight to the actual engine, as the engine is indeed the game.

I had a gap of play time after 13, and did not buy again until 15. I thought 18 was going downhill and not enough progress, but 19 and 21 were good.  My play time is as follows, and I think 22 is really good - but 17 had blemishes but not many, it was blemish free in so many ways.  I think 21 has less blemishes.  It is my guess 23 is going to be really good - but so often I am proven wrong.  I gave advice at 2019 and they took it up and I see that in 2022, and I am impressed.  

I completely enjoy 21, too, as stated with 17, but my scientific breakdown is as follows.  Note I am very good at the game and I also refrain from using O/P and downloaded tactics unless I am specifically seeing it 'just to see it' I do not use it in actual 'gameplay' saves.  I will start unemployed and with big clbs and with middle table clubs, but I do not like lower table clubs; so I mean I do not like relegation-battle clubs.  One reason is its drawn out by default and it used to prevent me from being an international manager. But so much content, too, fear of missing out.  I still want to play in so many leagues more as well.  Eg south America for one. 

Modern game when you could/feasible, it became so i could load more leagues, so now I use 30-40 leagues kind of thing.  Usually 42 in 21.  Also I like UI, so when user interfaces came along I would use those.  I use TCS3 skin in 21, but usually I no longer use any skins as its come along so well.  But I mean a good SI-made skin in the series probably made me play it even more that year(s).  Or new stats for example.  I was one who also enjoyed the 2d engine so much but now I like the 3d engine of course, nothing wrong with 2D though.  

________________________


Scientific stats from steam

13 - 30.5 hours (I did not like 13 very much and at this point had enough of the series as I knew it was developing again/at the start of that process)

15 - 325.3 hours 

17 -  65.3 hours; my 'fave', and honestly it was!  I came to it late though that year and didn't get back to it - because I figured I wouldn't buy 18 just keep 17 lol.... 

18 - 273.4 hours (as you can see I spent most time in 18 but i knew that 17 was better, except I wanted most up to date lists of players; a big reason for this lackluster result of my impression is because I felt 18 was not fully-baked yet; but I played it a lot of clearly enjoyed it to play it that much, I really wanted to win those titles)

19 - 361.9 hours (here I was chuffed with FM again - I played all the way back in fm07 days, and even c-manager green menu version and blue version 2, and green football manager 12 (original I think of new era)...but I know 19 was not one of the best, and I looked forward to 20....i played 19 in anticipation of 20 and with the big hour ones I would do multi year and club/international so it was full-on)...

.... in 17 I enjoyed taking a queensland club to the finals before going to 3 Bundesliga, then getting to top league but then I did not continue, fortuna iirc.  I did it really fast but then moved onto 18

20 - 46.3 hours - I did not like 20 and I missed 17 since I had a save I wanted to finish with Fortuna, and 19 I had played it sooo much it wa shard to beat; I was into racing simulation at that point, too.  I was thinking hmmm will 21 be able to progress the series as i felt it stagnated.  I felt 20 had a really slow start with patches.  

21 - I think is one of the best.  Only 132.6 hours - and I am fully enjoying it just now, I watch full matches in 19, 20, and 21as much as possible - in 17 I whizzed through the matches, but I always use the stats.  

 

Around 18/19 you could role-play a lot better....just like in CManager 2, and 94 version green menu iirc, like in 12 version you could role play more, so around 12-15 it was lacking in that regard, 17 was clinical and so good - and by 21 you can role play a club so much better now again, but more visually.

22, 10 hours, demo only just now.  I think the series is back on track/on course.

 

I enjoyed 17 most I would say but note my play time, but I undestood until I saw 22 and 21 that 17 was not beat, I would however install 17 like I am now again, to see. and I would play 17 again, yes.  But not 18, and not 19, obviously there is 21 and 22.  

_________________

 

Rankings 

In order, its for me 17

then 12 (was amazing and probably my peak fascination with football manager tbh)

then 21

then (probably 22 but it could well go up, and same with 21 could go higher on my list)

I know I play others more but for reasons and this is how I remember them.  But also their technical achievement. And sometimes the players so when they leave a team you do not play as hard until you find another save/time when you do want to play.  

Mostly I play naturally for personal challenge.  And appreciate holistically the title, technical and overall, and a best engine would have to be 17 and 21.  22 could become better most likely.  Its still pretty good but its my understanding some bugs will/could prevent that.  

Once it crosses a threshold it just vbecomes satisfying and good as a game, even if it has bugs -but some years if the M.E is bugged to start thats disappointing but does not always inhibit playing it.  Maybe I do not buy it as I skipped some.  20 I alsmot didn't get, 18 I almost didn't get, but both had good ones prior or after.  

So at this point I think 21 is technically the best title of the lot (until 22 gets patched probablyl; hlistically though 22 has surpassed somewhat already), not to take away from the fact that basically each and every FM can be taken on its own as very good.  So if you were on a deserted island and only had for example, FM 14, you probably would not be resentful of that fact.  

What makes the engine better, though?  I do not use first transfer window (I bar it), I use 30-40 leagues, usually 42 these days, I use full matches, I lower my badges to first national no matter where I play - I limit all stats to no more than 15, inc motivation and determination, I set attack no more than 10 and if anything I put tactics on 12...so i have low badges.  

It makes for a far better game, and I also choose to start at middle table clubs, or cough, man utd for example I guess we all have one club we pick; but make no mistake some years the engine could give you an enormous challenge even with man utd if you went in 10+ years, etc.

So in light of saying 17 and 21 for me are the best engines, thats under which circumstances, I make badges 50% good at best/and national former footballer at best, mid tier team to start, and only play top tiers as a reference (though its still all enjoyable and no offence to any one how they play)  When I used the 2012 engine and fm 15 I was not limiting my start like I do later on/now.

This is how I know 21 is excellent, for me anyway and 17, they were/are really well rounded.  The worst you could say about 17 is the regen faces probably.  Defence only improved and movement, but it was well rounded and did what it claimed on the tin.  And at least with the 21 engine, when you curtail yourself and I know not everyone wants to do that - you need to pay even more attention to things...for example with 21 and Stuttgart, you need to be on the ball/awake at the wheel; and I feel (and even with Brighton in EPL) those years I see now above the enjoyment, the engine allowed it a lot better with the new menu features/well rounded/not baking in the oven as much.  I tried Hamburg and Milan in 21, too, but I am sticking with a stuttgart save for foreseeable future.  For better or worse.  

___

So in conclusion, knowing all that for my mind alone, as far as I see it, to not be disingenuous as to my own intellect and what I see in my mind as to the honesty of my thoughts:  

Without putting too many stipulations on it (like it has to do x, y, z in a patch), to make the point as I do not know the future, finally 22, without it droning on for too long 22 will quite obviously go down as the best match engine yet.  Its like a smoother milkshake version, think chocolate flavour with and without cream, its just smoother and better.  In saying that, if you go back to 12 and watch that circle run down the sideline, a messi or C Ronaldo in later games, a Baggio, or rivaldo when the 34 year old him could fire in that rare game...those attacking plays, they mattered to make the engine greater; so if the 22 becomes more incisive in attack then its going to be the best one.  

 

Even now its hard to say (though it lacks some spark and 'flare' or fire of excitement/anticipation/surprise) that it won't be the best one as it certainly already is the best one.  I can stand to watch 21 and 22 on full matches and only going comprehensive to pause for stats (beats going to the highlight button down the bottom though I could if I paused it, my bad habit) so they are clearly the best in any case.

I think I need to state that about this thread, for me, though I like the others so much, 22 will be the best; its already 'technically' the best and have the smoothest and best feel.  I'm serious is that 22 is the clear best.  They just need to get it tweaked up that bit - though I understand the wider game has bugs.  I did say 21/22, but technically its 22.  And I do not mean to be rude or compare it poorly, I think its difficult to select another as being the best by those standards. 

 

The ones I played for an hour a day over the year on average are my faves except 17 which I played less but never got back to.  22 will probably be the best, and 21 is technically the overall best just now.  

Lessons from 17 for me though were the banner at top, green bar was too much and by 17 also I wanted to automate more and have the UI be better.  At 17 I probably used flut skin, do not now, and stadia pictures and faces etc.  But I enjoyed how the stats were coming along, and UI and these are big reasons why I couldn't resist 18 (and the way dev is these days) I played 18 a lot more.  I consider 18 as 17.5.  

In pure football its a no contest as 22 bug-fixed will be the best, but 21 technically the best overall game.  Which makes sense as its constantly developed.  And 20 did start very promisingly in the beta iirc.  So I would think everyone would be blown away by 22 if they only knew of 15 or 17 and they suddenly saw it and all its stats (which is somewhat true too for 21).  But as a game if you only had version 15 on an island I said, you would not resent that.  And if you had 17 while stuck on a island that would be better, but you would probably want 21 just now or 22 should it improve like it seems it will.  Even the M.E from 22 is fine as it is now in terms of can it be enjoyed.  But fear of missing out is a thing and I am not looking at commercial or marketing or market realities etc but tried to give an impression of both.  And as the series goes on, in 15 you just played on key, in 21 you watch or want to watch at least comprehensive or extended, but full match for long, long periods because it genuinely is better...so that is the proof for me.  I may think I like 17 more, but I actually like 21 and 22 the most; where you can also basically relate and correlate a lot not perfect the stats and visuals and player personality etc.  

__

EG in 22 I saw a player try to go past another as there was some good closing down, and they kicked it among themselves a bit opposition to player on my team a few times in a contest, then back to his teammate a bit, there is more of a struggle to get up the pitch playing against hard teams and it was a better and more stable match-engine experience.  But it was multiple passes and change of possession and contest for the ball, and they wanted to get out of their half after being closed down, so they had to try to clear after he was shut down.  

That is impossible in 17, even in 21 its not a given at all as the passing code is NOT changed from 17, see.  You may not see as many runs and stuff from what was it, I/w's unless it made patently obvious the team should do more running and there is a space but at least for 95% of the football experience is on screen.  Its less hollow in terms of simulation.  I think most people would agree that 22 is the best and it would be hard to go back to 17 full time.  

Edited January 30, 2022 by footballmanager1234

[SimonHoddle]

Yeah! Like he said! Pretty comprehensive @footballmanager1234

I really dislike the fact my iPad mini had better graphics 6 years ago versus my iPad Pro powered by Xbox now! 
the lack of words from SI on the subject I find insulting.

every year they do marginal gains on inferior graphics after throwing away the best look in 17. Every year they say a few more animations added. Whooop de dooooo

The players in my matches are blurred. The night lighting is awful. The look is dated. It’s worse than 6 years ago. Apart from Daniel Levy who actually makes a product worse without a really strong explanation?

sorry SI. But it’s been bugging me and this topic has brought it to the surface.

you fed us caviar in 17 and been given us Aldi fish roe ever since……why???????

 

just let me clarify….the game is good. I do play it a lot. I enjoy it. It’s just that a football game should have the match as the jewel in its crown. And right now it very much isn’t. If it was never as great as it was in 17 then we wouldn’t be complaining tbh.

Edited January 30, 2022 by SimonHoddle

[Garethjohn79]

On 29/01/2022 at 16:59, footballmanager1234 said:

TLDR - 22, I think obviously once you get to it and adjust to it.  For example in 22 I will change my line of attack much more during a game - reacting more to intricacies of the game is one of the things I suggested ages ago and which was done no doubt a while back Because I believe now in hindsight I have seen this being worked towards and others may have mentioned it too of course, but to have to react mid game is key to linking it up with the stats, both take on MORE meaning, and I try now to go round defences whereas I was not doing this in even 21 [which is more auto pilot where you just put on subs or maybe go cautious or positive but no major adjusts]!  In 22 if you say higher tempo the guys do that, slightly then more - you can suggest this and it plays out; slower, faster, press more, less, which person to press; players get caught in holes more, in corners more, the try to beat each other more (though the animations do not reflect this as much as in 2d) but you get the idea.  In 22 its been made clear how and when I should set an offside trap (I mean I do not play OP formations and tactics usually though yes I do have one option as gengenpress) and I adjust defensive line more and the visual game is more of a tussle and players run to close down like you see at games, and its just a better brand of football, patient if need be and faster if need be; importantly you can react more as you play it, to what it does.  As good as 17 is, its veritable auto-pilot compared to this.  Nor do I think 21 is any less a game but 22 is better.  

In 22 if you say control possession and all the rest, they will control possession and make their way up field sometimes not all that well, other times they get a roll-on.  This is not the case in 17; in 17 and others around that era they were in a rush and all the rest.  You could not get the full feel of such a tactic.  But you didn't mind as it fit into the sim-world.  Its fleshed out now.  In 22 it looks like more and more the AI as limited as AI can be, it begins to make more sense of evolving situations according to the tactics at least to a casual look (we know they are not sentient beings) - in 17 for example the way to play was to get the ball up there.  In 22, it unfolds much more like proper football and in movement and passing.  I understand that the speed of movement is the same and tactical variance between top and bottom clubs is somewhat nullified in terms of standard deviation distance to simply make the whole system work and be predictable, total permutation like in the real world is too much to ask for but it is what it is - and it helps to reflect that data you see and work with to make them play better; all that is interwoven so well now.  At least now passes can be under or over more, and they do sprint and speed up, but in future its obviously going get developed further.  I am just recognising that the 22 match engine is clearly out in front as to all the titles.  

As to graphics I personally think looking at 17 back to back with 22 demo that graphics for stadia complexity is on par or better now; I think the lighting is less garish, but in future who knows like in fallout 4 or skyrim they may be able to do that super-modern looking daylight, but for visibility I think 2022 is much better if that makes sense on top of my other assertion over quality.  I wish there were more variety perhaps but I see good/chunky stadia with geometric depth.  From about 17 onwards with analyst view you got a much better feel for stadia.  But these days it also translates into the other camera's too.  

 Re-format long form details of why I think 22, but at first i thought 17 like so many others; neither a bad game btw.  I have a premable for context and a scientific part in middle I will highlight.  It came to my attention via a video labelled First look at FM manager 2022, highlighted several things.  One was opposition instructions and I had played 22 demo a fair bit.  Op instructions matter more than in 2017 though I will go on to say I liked that engine.  The truth is 22 is ages in front of that.  As is the purchase price of players incrementally over the years.  It becomes difficult to say during this that 17 is better.  Though prior to my experiences with it all I may have said that despite enjoying it 100% and not playing it as much as 18.  50 hours (and 3 seasons) for example v 350.  In 2022 I don't mind also as years go on in life with this game to play it much slower and sink your teeth into it more, as is done.  In the modern engine you do have to be awake at the wheel a bit more, especially if you do what I do these days and begin with no more than 13-14 in manager traits and at mid-tier clubs, be they in the top flight or a couple down.  It becomes difficult I think for people above me, no offence, to say 17 was 'the best', I have come to see, over 21, its not technically.  

To assess some of this along with my playing time I actually because I had the 22 demo on, ran full matches side by side on 17, 21, 22.  Probably 3 of the key turning points or swings in the series.  Cant go into data and shouts and all that too much but that just got better. 

I played an hour a day on average some games in the series not all sitting at the computer but if its on a long match you can come and go or do other things sometimes, which is really good going if a game can give you an hour a day.  Others, barely 5 mins a day even though I did like them a lot.  Sometimes I whizzed through them across several seasons and got 'more' done, others I took my time and drawn out matches on full or comprehensive.  So trying to get to apples to apples; but also some years I did international management as well as club, other times not so. 

 

Premable 

By the time you read all this you won't remember I said this maybe but the rail camera in FM 17 REALLY sets off the whole engine, and those stadia and the non-ridiculous ad-board situation in 21 where in 17 the adboards are simply way more appropriate for football,  the whole engine is/was wonderful.  The 21 engine is fine for those but a lot was taken out like rail camera.  Its not in 22 as far as I can see.  And the air/atmosphere/graphical look is slightly better, iirc they had to tone that down for some people but its probably time to tone it back up in 23.  The 17 ME camera controls were bad as its difficult to navigate the UI but the options were more.  I think its surpassed in 22 overall but a shame its like it is by comparison to those things.  

I am currently playing 21 and not 22, only 22 demo.  I just came this year to 21 late.  I started it but never got into the save and a few false starts, but I am wanting to play it now alongside the 22 demo.  So I am behind, true.  

However as you read the scientific part you may come to understand other things went on and it was around 18 though I had pure enjoyment from the game (i mean that) I noticed that the passess basically were on rails, themselves.  They never really undershot or overshot and its as if the players were joined by a string and of course everyone knew that since 12 or 14 or something the defence didn't move as well as they could. 

For best engine when it comes to football play itself I do agree that 17 was so very, very good but obviously its eclipsed in total/overall by 21 and 22.  I completely enjoyed it for fun and felt it blended in with the overall game by that stage the best of any of the titles (in 2017/18; but looking back its more disjointed and not fully fleshed out - even when you watch full matches obviously 17 can't stand up as much to 22 and 21, but 17 had some good runs where 22 does not maybe as much though you get more complex play in 22 so there is no need to see such runs all the time, i get its fleshed out; above all its meant to simulate and 17-22 do that really well compared to 16 and prior in terms of visual and all the rest, its a good period for FM; and passing is better in 21/22 by a long way - 21/22 is just better football overall in many ways - but 17 is a gem no doubt!  So note my language and word I used - completely.  Maybe you will never see because of standard deviation bottom teams doing a certain way versus top teams, but its comparable at least a lot more now and the game versus visual simulation on match day is more nuanced; 17 you have to almost take as a whole block.  Its great but no where near as nuanced.  

 

I think 20 really made me question my game choices because it was the last of the old era; but 21 is like a new stage.  And 21 is great, too, its up there with 17 BUT I did not play it much until now, and I await to get 22 but I of course play the demo a lot. 

Which is the best game is the wider question with a 90% weight to the actual engine, as the engine is indeed the game.

I had a gap of play time after 13, and did not buy again until 15. I thought 18 was going downhill and not enough progress, but 19 and 21 were good.  My play time is as follows, and I think 22 is really good - but 17 had blemishes but not many, it was blemish free in so many ways.  I think 21 has less blemishes.  It is my guess 23 is going to be really good - but so often I am proven wrong.  I gave advice at 2019 and they took it up and I see that in 2022, and I am impressed.  

I completely enjoy 21, too, as stated with 17, but my scientific breakdown is as follows.  Note I am very good at the game and I also refrain from using O/P and downloaded tactics unless I am specifically seeing it 'just to see it' I do not use it in actual 'gameplay' saves.  I will start unemployed and with big clbs and with middle table clubs, but I do not like lower table clubs; so I mean I do not like relegation-battle clubs.  One reason is its drawn out by default and it used to prevent me from being an international manager. But so much content, too, fear of missing out.  I still want to play in so many leagues more as well.  Eg south America for one. 

Modern game when you could/feasible, it became so i could load more leagues, so now I use 30-40 leagues kind of thing.  Usually 42 in 21.  Also I like UI, so when user interfaces came along I would use those.  I use TCS3 skin in 21, but usually I no longer use any skins as its come along so well.  But I mean a good SI-made skin in the series probably made me play it even more that year(s).  Or new stats for example.  I was one who also enjoyed the 2d engine so much but now I like the 3d engine of course, nothing wrong with 2D though.  

________________________


Scientific stats from steam

13 - 30.5 hours (I did not like 13 very much and at this point had enough of the series as I knew it was developing again/at the start of that process)

15 - 325.3 hours 

17 -  65.3 hours; my 'fave', and honestly it was!  I came to it late though that year and didn't get back to it - because I figured I wouldn't buy 18 just keep 17 lol.... 

18 - 273.4 hours (as you can see I spent most time in 18 but i knew that 17 was better, except I wanted most up to date lists of players; a big reason for this lackluster result of my impression is because I felt 18 was not fully-baked yet; but I played it a lot of clearly enjoyed it to play it that much, I really wanted to win those titles)

19 - 361.9 hours (here I was chuffed with FM again - I played all the way back in fm07 days, and even c-manager green menu version and blue version 2, and green football manager 12 (original I think of new era)...but I know 19 was not one of the best, and I looked forward to 20....i played 19 in anticipation of 20 and with the big hour ones I would do multi year and club/international so it was full-on)...

.... in 17 I enjoyed taking a queensland club to the finals before going to 3 Bundesliga, then getting to top league but then I did not continue, fortuna iirc.  I did it really fast but then moved onto 18

20 - 46.3 hours - I did not like 20 and I missed 17 since I had a save I wanted to finish with Fortuna, and 19 I had played it sooo much it wa shard to beat; I was into racing simulation at that point, too.  I was thinking hmmm will 21 be able to progress the series as i felt it stagnated.  I felt 20 had a really slow start with patches.  

21 - I think is one of the best.  Only 132.6 hours - and I am fully enjoying it just now, I watch full matches in 19, 20, and 21as much as possible - in 17 I whizzed through the matches, but I always use the stats.  

 

Around 18/19 you could role-play a lot better....just like in CManager 2, and 94 version green menu iirc, like in 12 version you could role play more, so around 12-15 it was lacking in that regard, 17 was clinical and so good - and by 21 you can role play a club so much better now again, but more visually.

22, 10 hours, demo only just now.  I think the series is back on track/on course.

 

I enjoyed 17 most I would say but note my play time, but I undestood until I saw 22 and 21 that 17 was not beat, I would however install 17 like I am now again, to see. and I would play 17 again, yes.  But not 18, and not 19, obviously there is 21 and 22.  

_________________

 

Rankings 

In order, its for me 17

then 12 (was amazing and probably my peak fascination with football manager tbh)

then 21

then (probably 22 but it could well go up, and same with 21 could go higher on my list)

I know I play others more but for reasons and this is how I remember them.  But also their technical achievement. And sometimes the players so when they leave a team you do not play as hard until you find another save/time when you do want to play.  

Mostly I play naturally for personal challenge.  And appreciate holistically the title, technical and overall, and a best engine would have to be 17 and 21.  22 could become better most likely.  Its still pretty good but its my understanding some bugs will/could prevent that.  

Once it crosses a threshold it just vbecomes satisfying and good as a game, even if it has bugs -but some years if the M.E is bugged to start thats disappointing but does not always inhibit playing it.  Maybe I do not buy it as I skipped some.  20 I alsmot didn't get, 18 I almost didn't get, but both had good ones prior or after.  

So at this point I think 21 is technically the best title of the lot (until 22 gets patched probablyl; hlistically though 22 has surpassed somewhat already), not to take away from the fact that basically each and every FM can be taken on its own as very good.  So if you were on a deserted island and only had for example, FM 14, you probably would not be resentful of that fact.  

What makes the engine better, though?  I do not use first transfer window (I bar it), I use 30-40 leagues, usually 42 these days, I use full matches, I lower my badges to first national no matter where I play - I limit all stats to no more than 15, inc motivation and determination, I set attack no more than 10 and if anything I put tactics on 12...so i have low badges.  

It makes for a far better game, and I also choose to start at middle table clubs, or cough, man utd for example I guess we all have one club we pick; but make no mistake some years the engine could give you an enormous challenge even with man utd if you went in 10+ years, etc.

So in light of saying 17 and 21 for me are the best engines, thats under which circumstances, I make badges 50% good at best/and national former footballer at best, mid tier team to start, and only play top tiers as a reference (though its still all enjoyable and no offence to any one how they play)  When I used the 2012 engine and fm 15 I was not limiting my start like I do later on/now.

This is how I know 21 is excellent, for me anyway and 17, they were/are really well rounded.  The worst you could say about 17 is the regen faces probably.  Defence only improved and movement, but it was well rounded and did what it claimed on the tin.  And at least with the 21 engine, when you curtail yourself and I know not everyone wants to do that - you need to pay even more attention to things...for example with 21 and Stuttgart, you need to be on the ball/awake at the wheel; and I feel (and even with Brighton in EPL) those years I see now above the enjoyment, the engine allowed it a lot better with the new menu features/well rounded/not baking in the oven as much.  I tried Hamburg and Milan in 21, too, but I am sticking with a stuttgart save for foreseeable future.  For better or worse.  

___

So in conclusion, knowing all that for my mind alone, as far as I see it, to not be disingenuous as to my own intellect and what I see in my mind as to the honesty of my thoughts:  

Without putting too many stipulations on it (like it has to do x, y, z in a patch), to make the point as I do not know the future, finally 22, without it droning on for too long 22 will quite obviously go down as the best match engine yet.  Its like a smoother milkshake version, think chocolate flavour with and without cream, its just smoother and better.  In saying that, if you go back to 12 and watch that circle run down the sideline, a messi or C Ronaldo in later games, a Baggio, or rivaldo when the 34 year old him could fire in that rare game...those attacking plays, they mattered to make the engine greater; so if the 22 becomes more incisive in attack then its going to be the best one.  

 

Even now its hard to say (though it lacks some spark and 'flare' or fire of excitement/anticipation/surprise) that it won't be the best one as it certainly already is the best one.  I can stand to watch 21 and 22 on full matches and only going comprehensive to pause for stats (beats going to the highlight button down the bottom though I could if I paused it, my bad habit) so they are clearly the best in any case.

I think I need to state that about this thread, for me, though I like the others so much, 22 will be the best; its already 'technically' the best and have the smoothest and best feel.  I'm serious is that 22 is the clear best.  They just need to get it tweaked up that bit - though I understand the wider game has bugs.  I did say 21/22, but technically its 22.  And I do not mean to be rude or compare it poorly, I think its difficult to select another as being the best by those standards. 

 

The ones I played for an hour a day over the year on average are my faves except 17 which I played less but never got back to.  22 will probably be the best, and 21 is technically the overall best just now.  

Lessons from 17 for me though were the banner at top, green bar was too much and by 17 also I wanted to automate more and have the UI be better.  At 17 I probably used flut skin, do not now, and stadia pictures and faces etc.  But I enjoyed how the stats were coming along, and UI and these are big reasons why I couldn't resist 18 (and the way dev is these days) I played 18 a lot more.  I consider 18 as 17.5.  

In pure football its a no contest as 22 bug-fixed will be the best, but 21 technically the best overall game.  Which makes sense as its constantly developed.  And 20 did start very promisingly in the beta iirc.  So I would think everyone would be blown away by 22 if they only knew of 15 or 17 and they suddenly saw it and all its stats (which is somewhat true too for 21).  But as a game if you only had version 15 on an island I said, you would not resent that.  And if you had 17 while stuck on a island that would be better, but you would probably want 21 just now or 22 should it improve like it seems it will.  Even the M.E from 22 is fine as it is now in terms of can it be enjoyed.  But fear of missing out is a thing and I am not looking at commercial or marketing or market realities etc but tried to give an impression of both.  And as the series goes on, in 15 you just played on key, in 21 you watch or want to watch at least comprehensive or extended, but full match for long, long periods because it genuinely is better...so that is the proof for me.  I may think I like 17 more, but I actually like 21 and 22 the most; where you can also basically relate and correlate a lot not perfect the stats and visuals and player personality etc.  

__

EG in 22 I saw a player try to go past another as there was some good closing down, and they kicked it among themselves a bit opposition to player on my team a few times in a contest, then back to his teammate a bit, there is more of a struggle to get up the pitch playing against hard teams and it was a better and more stable match-engine experience.  But it was multiple passes and change of possession and contest for the ball, and they wanted to get out of their half after being closed down, so they had to try to clear after he was shut down.  

That is impossible in 17, even in 21 its not a given at all as the passing code is NOT changed from 17, see.  You may not see as many runs and stuff from what was it, I/w's unless it made patently obvious the team should do more running and there is a space but at least for 95% of the football experience is on screen.  Its less hollow in terms of simulation.  I think most people would agree that 22 is the best and it would be hard to go back to 17 full time.  

Could you repeat that please

[alian62]

7 hours ago, Garethjohn79 said:

Could you repeat that please

WTF . I read the bible quicker 😁

[kingjericho]

I always enjoyed FM11 but I might be nostalgic.

[Rookie FM]

I seem think FM 17 does have Defenders Issue when their wingers come crosser as it always end up goals and you rarely see FM 17 Defenders stopping the crosser where FM 22 is much better when come stopping crossing as depending how good your defenders are!

[SimonHoddle]

2 hours ago, Rookie FM said:

I seem think FM 17 does have Defenders Issue when their wingers come crosser as it always end up goals and you rarely see FM 17 Defenders stopping the crosser where FM 22 is much better when come stopping crossing as depending how good your defenders are!

I mean it definitely wasn’t perfect! But it was the greatest work in progress!

[naterego93]

FM12, 17 and 21 are all solid in my book.

[Metal]

FM21 has the best match engine imo, players actually follow your instructions, player traits matter and the actually strikers finish their dinners

Edited April 4, 2022 by Metal