Netherlands Provisional 34-man squad

[Wolf_pd]

Any Ajax players that will make their debut? Like Queensy Menig?

[himan]

That was a 3-0 win. The critics are silenced for a week. 

[adhikapp]

Maybe it was actually Ronald de Boer that had a decent spell as Ajax manager after all this time, and other clubs just hired the wrong brother?

[DJ]

2 hours ago, himan said:

That was a 3-0 win. The critics are silenced for a week. 

Haha. No. Georgia had some serious chances and cut through the defense a few times. The better countries would not miss those chances and no one is fooled by the result.
De Boer says that he simply needs another formation apart from 4-3-3 and I can't say he's wrong. But so far it's not working very well and I secretely hope that he will at least be able to bring himself to switch back to good old 4-3-3 if we're behind. I personally would have liked an experiment with 4-1-3-1-1 (Frenkie DM/M, Memphis AMC/F, Weghorst Striker) simply because we have the players for that, but it was never an option I guess. 

[Wolf_pd]

It's Georgia, not a country at the level of say.... Czecj Republic or Finland.

[Jeroen Thijssen]

Donny van de Beek is injured and out of the Euros.  No replacement called up. Duhhh....

[adhikapp]

De Boer is an idiot. Donny gets injured, and not calling up a replacement, despite naming an initial 34 man squad. What were the other 8 names for then?

[DJ]

I really don't get it. Wasn't he saying how much of a motivator Babel is, for example? Or why not El Ghazi, who has had a great season?

[Wolf_pd]

De Boer is a wise man, guys, so not too much comments

Never thought I would compare Frank de Boer with Danny Blind, but in terms of decisionmaking they are very close

[georginho_juventusygr]

Why does Van Basten look like he aged ten years in three? Looks very old and frail.

[Wolf_pd]

11 hours ago, georginho_juventusygr said:

Why does Van Basten look like he aged ten years in three? Looks very old and frail.

If you let him do commercials kicking a football it will probably hurt like hell.

But I agree, he is aging rapidly.

[Jeroen Thijssen]

Matthijs de Ligt out of game 1.

[Wolf_pd]

Good football starts and for me it is time to grab a good book and read with earplugs in

[georginho_juventusygr]

 

[georginho_juventusygr]

[georginho_juventusygr]

What is the best English translation for DOORSLUITEN?

[DJ]

14 minutes ago, georginho_juventusygr said:

What is the best English translation for DOORSLUITEN?

To 'lock through'. No one is any wiser

Still, this camera man shall be executed immediately for putting the strategic plans in the hands of the enemy. High treason  The highest!

Seriously though, this really isn't very clever. KNVB might react by closing all training sessions to the media. Thanks a lot. 

[Jeroen Thijssen]

Why does he use first names for all the players, except for the three DC's? (Blind/De Ligt/De Vrij) ?

[VamPook]

Netherlands looking good for the semi finals 

[Wolf_pd]

No complaints that Czechoslovakia will be the next opponent. Could have been France, Germany or Portugal.

[DJ]

5 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

No complaints that Czechoslovakia will be the next opponent. Could have been France, Germany or Portugal.

Absolutely. Well, Germany would have been nice, I love those games because of location reasons, but glad to avoid Portugal. They somehow always  have our number. 

[Wolf_pd]

2 minutes ago, DJ said:

Absolutely. Well, Germany would have been nice, I love those games because of location reasons, but glad to avoid Portugal. They somehow always  have our number. 

Yep, Portugal is really a bete noire for the Netherlands.

[DJ]

Just now, Wolf_pd said:

Yep, Portugal is really a bete noire for the Netherlands.

We could have tried to call up Khalid Boularouz ^^

[Wolf_pd]

42 minutes ago, DJ said:

We could have tried to call up Khalid Boularouz ^^

Luuk de Jong is out, can we still fly in a replacement?

[Roy Race 9]

48 minutes ago, Wolf_pd said:

Luuk de Jong is out, can we still fly in a replacement?

Dont think you can in KO rounds 

[craigcwwe]

1 minute ago, Roy Race 9 said:

Dont think you can in KO rounds 

You can't.

Replacements can be made for injuries up to the day before your first game. 

[Baptista_8]

Don't think they seriously wanted to call up Bouhlarouz guys

[himan]

No, we definitely wanted to do that, but Portugal is not going to be on the rolls, probably.

[georginho_juventusygr]

Couldn't believe it when I saw Wesley Sneijder. He's very rounded-shape!

[DJ]

18 minutes ago, georginho_juventusygr said:

Couldn't believe it when I saw Wesley Sneijder. He's very rounded-shape!

He's been worse actually Anyway, who cares, as long as he can pump out those hakkuh moves ^^

[Tikka Mezzala]

Hard luck fellas. Always like to see the Dutch do well due to their contribution to football historically. De Boer should be gone tomorrow, tbh. 

[TeeWee]

Apparently, there's an evaluation meeting with the KNVB scheduled today. Assuming this means that Frank de Boer resigns, who could replace him? I don't see many Dutch coaches of ability that are currently available.

Dutch football culture for the national team is opposed to the idea of foreign coaches, but the Dutch team could be prestigious enough to entice Arsene Wenger out of retirement? His football sense should be compatible with dutch football culture. His stature is obvious enough to have the respect of the players and it's a bold choice from the KNVB, it may even quiet the Telegraaf for a while. I'd watch an Arsene-led Dutch team with a lot of interest. 

[decapitated]

19 minutes ago, TeeWee said:

Apparently, there's an evaluation meeting with the KNVB scheduled today. Assuming this means that Frank de Boer resigns, who could replace him? I don't see many Dutch coaches of ability that are currently available.

Dutch football culture for the national team is opposed to the idea of foreign coaches, but the Dutch team could be prestigious enough to entice Arsene Wenger out of retirement? His football sense should be compatible with dutch football culture. His stature is obvious enough to have the respect of the players and it's a bold choice from the KNVB, it may even quiet the Telegraaf for a while. I'd watch an Arsene-led Dutch team with a lot of interest. 

Erik ten Hag?

[TeeWee]

I'd prefer a coach who has experience managing a large club in a big league. I think Ten Hag's football mind is a good fit, but he doesn't have experience managing a large club with huge egos. Ajax is not small, but he only has to manage a few big players with a clear hierarchy, managing Dutch national team demands people management skills from another level. 

[Wolf_pd]

1 hour ago, TeeWee said:

I'd prefer a coach who has experience managing a large club in a big league. I think Ten Hag's football mind is a good fit, but he doesn't have experience managing a large club with huge egos. Ajax is not small, but he only has to manage a few big players with a clear hierarchy, managing Dutch national team demands people management skills from another level. 

I think we have found Franks problem 

[Wolf_pd]

There was a poll in a newspaper asking whether a team wit Ronald Koeman would have won that game. I don't know if yes is the right answer, but.... the atmosphere would have been different at least.

Also, interesting insight from a few coaches from outside football but with massive experience in Olympic Games and such (Marc Lammer, former national hockeycoach) who were surprised at the seemingly lack of preparation. One even questioned Frank de Boers own memory about the USA World Cup where acclimatisation was a major part of the preparation due to the humid circumstances. Simply said, a coach that blames the weather is an unprepared bad coach.

[TeeWee]

Football's strangely conservative in a lot of ways. While they have made big advances in the physical and technical aspects, e.g. it's been very resistant to usage of statistics until very recently, mental coaching, and in this instance, acclimatisation to local weather. It seems like in some very real ways, football is very unprofessional compared to the preperation that e.g. Olympian sportsmen go through. I remember swimmers making a pretty big point about swimming their finals in the morning in Rio (I think) to accomodate TV worldwide, while they were used to late afternoon / evening finals and had concerns about shifting peak performance to the morning. 

[Wolf_pd]

Seeing that various teams through the years made sure to arrive in time (The Netherlands in WC94, PSV and Ajax in various games) I blame this more on the management of the current Dutch team. But that aside, I agree, football is conservative compared to the limitless possibilities they should have with the worldwide attention and the moneyflows.

[TM]

I don't think anyone is really shocked by that one

[VamPook]

Netherlands should really get someone competent for the World Cup

And find someone to partner Memphis ffs

At least they'll have VvD in defence the next round

[Wolf_pd]

2 hours ago, TM said:

I don't think anyone is really shocked by that one

3 weeks too late....

[georginho_juventusygr]

4 hours ago, Wolf_pd said:

Seeing that various teams through the years made sure to arrive in time (The Netherlands in WC94, PSV and Ajax in various games) I blame this more on the management of the current Dutch team. But that aside, I agree, football is conservative compared to the limitless possibilities they should have with the worldwide attention and the moneyflows.

They didn't fly directly to Budapest because of ...

HOLLANDSE GIERIGHEID

[georginho_juventusygr]

Arno Vermeulen would consider ANTONIO CONTE.

[Cedrik]

Those Dutch journalists are sometimes hard to take serious . Moreover, I also feel that there is way too much emphasis on the position of head coach. It's not that Holland has a world class team. Only in Europe there are already several teams who simply have (a lot) more quality. 

[DJ]

41 minutes ago, Cedrik said:

Those Dutch journalists are sometimes hard to take serious . Moreover, I also feel that there is way too much emphasis on the position of head coach. It's not that Holland has a world class team. Only in Europe there are already several teams who simply have (a lot) more quality. 

The last time was in the 70s. After that, there were always players in the NT that no one outside the NL had ever heard of or didn't rate at all. Tactics play a huge role, as LvG proved. WC final with a defense of nobodies, basically. 

Talking about LvG, there are some rumours that he will be asked to return. I would have nothing against it, but no longer than the WC. 

[Cedrik]

2 minutes ago, DJ said:

The last time was in the 70s. After that, there were always players in the NT that no one outside the NL had ever heard of or didn't rate at all. Tactics play a huge role, as LvG proved. WC final with a defense of nobodies, basically. 

Talking about LvG, there are some rumours that he will be asked to return. I would have nothing against it, but no longer than the WC. 

Didn't LvG also use a 5-3-2? The formation that is now being criticized a lot? In addition, I honestly think that the squad then was better than what is available now. 

[DJ]

6 minutes ago, Cedrik said:

Didn't LvG also use a 5-3-2? The formation that is now being criticized a lot? In addition, I honestly think that the squad then was better than what is available now. 

I lied, by the way, LvG was only third. Bert van Marwijk was second. Whatever

And yeah, if you have Robben, van Persie, Sneijder, vdVaart, Gio van Bronckhorst, Kuijt, Huntelaar (the latter two already being a stretch) the team has some world class players in it. But the rest... not so much. 

[Freakiie]

Van Marwijk largely relied on kicking the opposition out of the game, with that de Jong/van Bommel pivot, but he got to the finals, so nobody complained about how "undutch" he was playing. Playing good football is only a requirement when you lose, not when you win.

[Wolf_pd]

Just ask the 1988 guys.

[TeeWee]

5-3-2 is just another formation, it's the strategy that matters. '88 wasn't classical 4-3-3 either. 5-3-2 with wingbacks bombing forwards and crossing for Weghorst, knocking the ball towards Memphis and Gini could have been plenty attacking. But 5-3-2 with Weghorst up top but wingbacks not able / allowed to bomb forwards turns into lackluster static play. 

I think 3 at the back was mostly used to accomodate Daley Blind. You already have De Ligt and De Vrij, Virgil of course when he's fit to play, they are all better center backs. Blind is too slow to play as a modern fullback. So if all centerbacks are fit, you can sacrifice one (Stefan de Vrij) for Blind to add a bit more football into the backline. 

433 is a bit of a misleading discussion anyway. It's not like we're using classic "Hollandse school" wingers with great crossing ability anyway, but rather wingers that turn inside and shoot. And we also don't have the complete no. 9 that dominates in the air, can hold up the ball and launch a midfield runner or opposite winger, and is a big goal scoring threat at the same time. 

But for the WC qualies, we still have a good core. Virgil, De Ligt, De Jong and Gini are all at the top of their class. I think Dutch press is misclassifying Memphis as a creative player. He is a flair player no doubt, but not very creative, conjuring opportunities with vision. But if we can let De Jong and Gini do the creative work and Memphis to flair his way out of a tight space, Dutch team is a formidable opponent. 

The role of the head coach must be to allow the players and team to play to their strong suit, and select the players and formation which support that vision best. A defensive-minded coach might implement 433, but if he gives the wingers a large defensive task load, it's still not going to satisfy the Telegraaf (and therefore, the general public).