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[Discussion] Premium 'HD' version of FM?


UKFA
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How would you feel about an 'HD' version of FM, using Unreal Engine or something similar? To be clear, the normal game would remain as normal for us using older PC's, this would be an additional 'premium' option aimed at the types who pay $70 for the newest FIFA and play it on high spec gaming PCs. Now that FM is on the Epic Store they wouldn't have to pay a licensing fee to use Unreal Engine 5, which looks amazing, arguably better than FIFA's Frostbite engine.

The counter point is to concentrate all efforts on continuing to develop SI's own graphics engine which is great. But I think it's fair to say there's a large market that want the newest shiniest most ridiculously detailed graphics.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Lol.

FM isn't two separate executables - one for the "manager" view and one for the "match" view. The entire game would need a full rewrite in a new engine - not gonna happen.

Not to mention the amount of work that goes into FIFA to make motion capture smooth and animations blend well and look "realistic" (as comical as FIFA can be sometimes) - you're kinda asking for something that just isn't possible for SI. Hell, it's barely possible for EA!

What you really want is a revamped FIFA Career mode that isn't rubbish. But FM is an actual simulation, and without years upon years of development without distraction - it's not gonna happen.

Also I think you'll find that it's a minority of people that want spangly match graphics in FM. What we want is a flawless match engine that behaves and responds realistically. Which is also not gonna happen :P 

Source: I'm  a software developer.

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12 hours ago, theinfamousmielie said:

Lol.

FM isn't two separate executables - one for the "manager" view and one for the "match" view. The entire game would need a full rewrite in a new engine - not gonna happen.

Not to mention the amount of work that goes into FIFA to make motion capture smooth and animations blend well and look "realistic" (as comical as FIFA can be sometimes) - you're kinda asking for something that just isn't possible for SI. Hell, it's barely possible for EA!

What you really want is a revamped FIFA Career mode that isn't rubbish. But FM is an actual simulation, and without years upon years of development without distraction - it's not gonna happen.

Also I think you'll find that it's a minority of people that want spangly match graphics in FM. What we want is a flawless match engine that behaves and responds realistically. Which is also not gonna happen :P 

Source: I'm  a software developer.

what i want is more something like Dream Soccer League than FIFA 

 

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12 hours ago, theinfamousmielie said:

Lol.

FM isn't two separate executables - one for the "manager" view and one for the "match" view. The entire game would need a full rewrite in a new engine - not gonna happen.

Not to mention the amount of work that goes into FIFA to make motion capture smooth and animations blend well and look "realistic" (as comical as FIFA can be sometimes) - you're kinda asking for something that just isn't possible for SI. Hell, it's barely possible for EA!

What you really want is a revamped FIFA Career mode that isn't rubbish. But FM is an actual simulation, and without years upon years of development without distraction - it's not gonna happen.

Also I think you'll find that it's a minority of people that want spangly match graphics in FM. What we want is a flawless match engine that behaves and responds realistically. Which is also not gonna happen :P 

Source: I'm  a software developer.

before graphics we need to talk about player mouvements this is far more important , and with the actual engine i think we reached a wall 

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I don't disagree that improved match graphics and player movements would be nice, but you're the one that suggested using Unreal Engine 5. That would require a full game rewrite - from the ground up. Which will take years, and is not realistically going to happen.

I wouldn't mind seeing SI leveraging the Metahumans thing for regen faces though, lol.

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On 20/05/2021 at 09:51, theinfamousmielie said:

Lol.

FM isn't two separate executables - one for the "manager" view and one for the "match" view. The entire game would need a full rewrite in a new engine - not gonna happen.

Not to mention the amount of work that goes into FIFA to make motion capture smooth and animations blend well and look "realistic" (as comical as FIFA can be sometimes) - you're kinda asking for something that just isn't possible for SI. Hell, it's barely possible for EA!

What you really want is a revamped FIFA Career mode that isn't rubbish. But FM is an actual simulation, and without years upon years of development without distraction - it's not gonna happen.

Also I think you'll find that it's a minority of people that want spangly match graphics in FM. What we want is a flawless match engine that behaves and responds realistically. Which is also not gonna happen :P 

Source: I'm  a software developer.

If the graphics engine is inextricably intertwined with the match engine in some spaghetti then no offense, but that's bad coding, you should know that as a software developer. There's no reason SI can't do what FIFA or PES do, they don't even make their own graphics engine they just use pre-existing ones, in FIFAs case Frostbite wasn't really designed for FIFA and that's part of the reason for it being clunky. They already do motion capture, that can be applied to any graphics engine using the existing data. It's not something magical and special that EA do, they just have a higher budget to hire more devs and get the latest shiniest motion capture tools. And they also have access to a decent graphics engine, but now so do SI via Epic :)

Nah I have no interest in FIFA, I was simply making a suggestion for the devs for consideration, they can take it or leave it as they please. It's probably not gonna happen, although I appreciate you saying they can't do it cuz they are now more likely to take the challenge just to prove you wrong :D

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Posted (edited)
On 22/05/2021 at 08:21, theinfamousmielie said:

I don't disagree that improved match graphics and player movements would be nice, but you're the one that suggested using Unreal Engine 5. That would require a full game rewrite - from the ground up. Which will take years, and is not realistically going to happen.

I wouldn't mind seeing SI leveraging the Metahumans thing for regen faces though, lol.

There's no need to rewrite the game engine, they can just improve it incrementally as they do in new versions. And they don't have to code the graphics engine much at all if they use a pre-existing framework, you use the API and the existing tools.

Edited by UKFA
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IMO we don't really need anything else other than a graphical improvement. I get that it's not the main focus of the game and some people play 2D anyway but FM already has all the meat and potatoes for the most perfect Football sim that's every been created (Yea, I said perfect) other than little AI and UI changes what else does SI need to add to FM? I really hope they focused entirely on the look of the game this year around but I doubt it.

The game is addicting as is already and with a near-FIFA or PES look I don't think I would every sunlight ever again

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On 22/05/2021 at 09:21, theinfamousmielie said:

I don't disagree that improved match graphics and player movements would be nice, but you're the one that suggested using Unreal Engine 5. That would require a full game rewrite - from the ground up. Which will take years, and is not realistically going to happen.

I wouldn't mind seeing SI leveraging the Metahumans thing for regen faces though, lol.

meta humain would be interesting for regen 

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3 hours ago, destmez said:

meta humain would be interesting for regen 

Absolutely! I suggested in a previous discussion it would be really interesting if instead of using real player photos they used an image of the player as a computer model, so they are consistent with the regen pictures. It would be much more immersive that way imo.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 24/05/2021 at 00:55, UKFA said:

If the graphics engine is inextricably intertwined with the match engine in some spaghetti then no offense, but that's bad coding, you should know that as a software developer. There's no reason SI can't do what FIFA or PES do, they don't even make their own graphics engine they just use pre-existing ones, in FIFAs case Frostbite wasn't really designed for FIFA and that's part of the reason for it being clunky. They already do motion capture, that can be applied to any graphics engine using the existing data. It's not something magical and special that EA do, they just have a higher budget to hire more devs and get the latest shiniest motion capture tools. And they also have access to a decent graphics engine, but now so do SI via Epic :)

Nah I have no interest in FIFA, I was simply making a suggestion for the devs for consideration, they can take it or leave it as they please. It's probably not gonna happen, although I appreciate you saying they can't do it cuz they are now more likely to take the challenge just to prove you wrong :D

I don't have any real knowledge on the architecture of Football Manager itself, and I wasn't suggesting that the match engine and the rest of the game are programmed poorly in the sense that they're linked together with piles of spaghetti-code.

What I am suggesting with my relatively limited knowledge of game engines and game development is that Football Manager has been built upon years of work that they've iterated over and improved but ultimately is part of the same set of packages with the same set of dependencies under the hood - for example when there is no match going on there's no rendering going on, and you can access the interface itself mid-match, sometimes with the match carrying on in the background. I haven't got any information about what threads what runs on but I'm going to make the dangerous assumption that while the match might be run in a separate thread it's still part of the code application, written in the same language with the same libraries and dependencies available. The code for this is likely good quality code, but the presumption that one can just update the graphics engine to (for example) Unreal 4 or 5, and have the rest of the game just running "on top" is probably extremely unlikely. FIFA's UI's are in-engine. PES's UI is in-engine. I don't believe one could make the non-3D bits of FM in those engines without rewriting large parts of the game - decision logic (the match engine itself), database processing and other 'background' bits aside which are engine-agnostic would not need much of a rewrite, or would be a fairly simple port if it did.

Wouldn't mind heading some technical details from SI about this, I'm happy to be wrong about all this but AFAIK it's just not gonna happen for the reasons mentioned above. I am a software developer but as I said I don't have much experience with game development so I'm no authority on the matter :D 

And hey, if I am wrong and they end up accepting the challenge and presenting FM-quality matches with FIFA-quality graphics/presentation, then I will happily eat my words, hehehe.

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  • 5 months later...
  • SI Staff

Thanks for taking the time to log this request. Whilst this request could prove difficult for a number reasons including design elements and time, this has now been documented and is part of our internal database of features for consideration. Like all features raised to us, it could end up rejected, or could after extensive design and development become a part of a future FM.

Cheers.

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