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[FM21] Help with 4231 quick transitions


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Hi guys, I just started to make my own tactic and I was wondering if it made sense, and if there was any tips to make it better.

Due to my front 4 great acceleration and pace (best in the league), I wanted to play a football with quick transitions and give them space.

Thanks in advance

image.png.0af15a2864a2b63174df0741dbb2be7d.png

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Do you need two holding midfielders with Lille? Maybe against the top teams, but it might be more beneficial having a more offensive option such as a B2B or Mezella as the fullback on the right can cover for their forward movement. 

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I would consider: 

  • putting the CM-d on the side of the FB-a
  • changing the DLP-s to a more dynamic role (the midfield is receiving help from the AM-s and the RFB-s)
  • keeping an eye on loss of possession due to dribbling 
  • whether a Higher defensive line is an option instead of retaining compactness by lowering line of engagement

Otherwise this seems coherent + consistent. :thup:

Edited by Prolix
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51 minutes ago, sonnevillejr said:

I just started to make my own tactic and I was wondering if it made sense, and if there was any tips to make it better

Have you tested the tactic to see if and how it works?

Because if it turns out to work, why would you want to make changes?

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If you're going to keep the midfield the same, I'd recommend changing the right full back to a wing back so you have someone attacking the right side of the pitch, once Ikone cuts inside there will be space to exploite and Andre will be able to cover for him with his defend duty.

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After a few matches, I noticed that we didn't have many shots. I have trouble creating chances, against weaker sides it's a boring match and against stronger sides, I tend to suffer more but I don't create opportunies either. I don't know if it coul be useful to change an inverted winger to an inside forward in order to have more runs into the box 

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Just now, sonnevillejr said:

After a few matches, I noticed that we didn't have many shots. I have trouble creating chances, against weaker sides it's a boring match and against stronger sides, I tend to suffer more but I don't create opportunies either. I don't know if it coul be useful to change an inverted winger to an inside forward in order to have more runs into the box 

Your tactic is more suited to when you're the underdog so it should work for European games, PSG, Lyon etc. Personally, I'd create a 2nd tactic for when you're the dominant team. This is how I'd line up for matches I expect to win, which should be the majority for Lille:

2061536724_Screenshot2021-05-0419_21_25.png.51919c6549802aec9539eabc8ccea55e.png

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35 minutes ago, silentwars said:

Your tactic is more suited to when you're the underdog so it should work for European games, PSG, Lyon etc. Personally, I'd create a 2nd tactic for when you're the dominant team. This is how I'd line up for matches I expect to win, which should be the majority for Lille:

2061536724_Screenshot2021-05-0419_21_25.png.51919c6549802aec9539eabc8ccea55e.png

Ok thank you man, so it's obliged to play a more possession-based style of play against weaker sides?

Because when I play against teams with the "control possession" style, even if it's a weaker opponent, I thought my first tactic would work anyway 

Edited by sonnevillejr
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59 minutes ago, sonnevillejr said:

Ok thank you man, so it's obliged to play a more possession-based style of play against weaker sides?

I think it's more accurate to say that you will naturally have more possession against weaker sides, so you should have a plan for what to do with it. :D

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1 hour ago, sonnevillejr said:

Ok thank you man, so it's obliged to play a more possession-based style of play against weaker sides?

Because when I play against teams with the "control possession" style, even if it's a weaker opponent, I thought my first tactic would work anyway 

Well the weaker teams are likely to sit back and restrict space which makes it difficult to play with quicker transitions when you're a top side. So pass into space is less likely to be effective, I think pressing higher up is a must as these teams are more likely to defend deep and you don't really want to allow them time on the ball, especially if they're happy just passing it around and wasting time.

With that been said, you don't have to play with shorter passing you could play slightly more direct if you prefer it's really what your preference is. I would play out of defence so you're not turning possession straight back over though. 

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Well I think this game is not for me anymore lol.

I used to create my own tactics and always play with a possession-based style of play with the same kind of teams again and again and it worked pretty well, even if I was struggling in away games sometimes. But I got tired of this style and I tried to make a counter-attack tactic with a low block with Lille, worked well because I finished 2nd in Ligue 1 during the first season. 

The thing is I wanted to get more knowledge about tactics so I went here to read some advices and guides to set up a tactic and I found out my tactic was pretty consistent but there was room for improvements. 

Only, all the guides were confusing to me because of all that mentality and LOE & DL stuff and since then, I've been struggling to put a tactic in place, even with few instructions. I'm quite sure my roles and duties are good though. And now, after reading the guides, I can't help to think my former tactic doesn't make sense, and with some tweaks that I was sure it was right, it doesn't work anymore.

For example, I don't know anymore what mentality I should use, just as my DL and LOE

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14 minutes ago, sonnevillejr said:

But I got tired of this style and I tried to make a counter-attack tactic with a low block with Lille, worked well because I finished 2nd in Ligue 1 during the first season. 

Over the last 20 years, Lille has pretty consistently been one of the top 6 clubs in France. Realistically, how often will they be able to approach games with a low block + counterattacking as their primary tactical style?

Ignoring that, what facets of your tactic did you begin to doubt? What changes did you attempt to make? What were those changes meant to accomplish? What things are no longer working? 

19 minutes ago, sonnevillejr said:

For example, I don't know anymore what mentality I should use, just as my DL and LOE

What is your tactical objective? Does your tactical ambition match your circumstances? 

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2 minutes ago, Prolix said:

Over the last 20 years, Lille has pretty consistently been one of the top 6 clubs in France. Realistically, how often will they be able to approach games with a low block + counterattacking as their primary tactical style?

Well I'm a fan of this team, and with Christophe Galtier since 2018/2019, we like to play with quick transitions, we don't look for possession. We just have possession again weaker team because they sit deep (and that is against these teams that we are struggling). We have very fast players up front, and very low defenders with Botman and Fonte, that's why I wanted to let the opponent come and then use the spaces. As I said I managed to do this because I finished 2nd, no far from PSG.

7 minutes ago, Prolix said:

Ignoring that, what facets of your tactic did you begin to doubt? What changes did you attempt to make? What were those changes meant to accomplish? What things are no longer working?

In my first tactic, I played with low block + low line of engagement in a positive mentality + 2 DLP in the middle (André in defend and Sanches in support).

Fonte decided to leave the club so I replaced him with Sutalo who is much faster, but quite good at jumping and heading so I just increase the DL back to standard.

Also, I put Andre as a CM-d in order not to have 2 same roles in the middle. I also removed the "run at defense" TI, to take less risk with my CMs, and the "pass into space" TI (this one only against teams that sit deep), just not to lose the ball too easily when there is less space. And then, I've been struggling against weaker teams, but also against teams like OM or OL, I had very few shots.

17 minutes ago, Prolix said:

What is your tactical objective? Does your tactical ambition match your circumstances? 

I like to defend quite aggressevily, but not very high on the pitch because I want to use the acceleration and pace of my front 4 (all of them have min 16). I'm not interested in the possession although I can undestand I will have the ball against weaker teams. That's why I used a positive mentality but with a lower line of engagement (with the counter-press TI ticked)

I just don't understand why it doesn't work anymore, because I don't think my changes were irrelevant, and my reputation hasn't changed : I was a top side during the first season as well

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5 hours ago, Prolix said:

Over the last 20 years, Lille has pretty consistently been one of the top 6 clubs in France. Realistically, how often will they be able to approach games with a low block + counterattacking as their primary tactical style?

Lobanovsky solved this problem in real life and it is possible to replicate it in FM. Start the match against underdog with high pressure, very attacking style. Score fast. Than sit back and play counter.

 

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8 hours ago, sonnevillejr said:

I played with low block + low line of engagement

Low block and low LOE are the same thing. When you set the LOE to lower (or much lower), you automatically play a low block tactical style. It is the LOE that defines the type of your defensive block, not defensive line. 

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