Youth Recruitment is useless?

[dave88]

So, I play with a hungarian club since more than 10 years, developed my youth facilities and yout recruitments. Wasted a tons of money and i got literally 0 player i could even use. I have to kidnapp starving argentinian kids and force them to play in my club if i want players i can use. So, spending millions on youth recruitment is just useless? 

My head of youth development's talents: working with y 17, juding player potential 17. 

Is there any secret i dont know if i want good local players or in this game you only can find talents in africa and south-amerika? 

[ShaunG95]

23 minutes ago, dave88 said:

So, I play with a hungarian club since more than 10 years, developed my youth facilities and yout recruitments. Wasted a tons of money and i got literally 0 player i could even use. I have to kidnapp starving argentinian kids and force them to play in my club if i want players i can use. So, spending millions on youth recruitment is just useless? 

My head of youth development's talents: working with y 17, juding player potential 17. 

Is there any secret i dont know if i want good local players or in this game you only can find talents in africa and south-amerika? 

What is the reputation of your club now? The higher the reputation, the more likely you are to appeal to better younger players. Same goes for the reputation of your Head of Youth Development, if they have a high reputation within the game then they are more likely to encourage better youngsters to join your youth setup.

[dave88]

My club is national 3,5 and youth is 2,5 stars. And I'm in the Champions League since 8 years. Once were in the semi-final. 

Edited May 2, 2021 by dave88

[FrazT]

The reputation of your country does also have an impact on youth recruitment- if your country is not producing qulaity youngesters any where, then your own club will struggle to get youngsters who will make the top.

[Freakiie]

You play in a nation with a relatively low youth rating, at a club that starts out as a relatively low reputation club in a relatively small city. You stacked the deck against yourself quite a bit, so it's no surprise that you don't get any local super stars, especially if your team standard has surpassed that of the Hungarian league (which if you're capable of investing millions and are poaching talented south American youngsters it probably has).

It's basically like being at a club like Shakhtar and wondering why all your best talents are Brazilians you bought and not Ukrainians coming through your youth recruitment. Except that you're in a country with even worse youth rating than Ukraine, with worse reputation than Shakhtar and you're in a far smaller city, massively reducing the potential player pool.

[dave88]

I never said i expect 11 hungarian Messi in my youth academy, but at least 1-2 usefull guy after 10 years of CL. 

[herne79]

38 minutes ago, dave88 said:

I never said i expect 11 hungarian Messi in my youth academy, but at least 1-2 usefull guy after 10 years of CL. 

I'm afraid your problem is nothing to do with your club's facilities but the fact that you're in Hungary.  Hungary aren't exactly known for producing CL quality players (at least not recently) and that's translated into the game. There's always a small chance you may get someone but that chance is much lower compared to other nations such as Spain, Brazil, Germany and so on.

Having said that, a 2.5 star prospect is predicted to become roughly similar quality to your current squad.  Star ratings can also be very wrong and great prospects may sometimes be given poor ratings and thus overlooked.  Give prospects 6 months to a year in your youth team, let your coaches get to know them and their opinions may change over time.

[ShaunG95]

45 minutes ago, dave88 said:

I never said i expect 11 hungarian Messi in my youth academy, but at least 1-2 usefull guy after 10 years of CL. 

Granted but the odds will be stacked against you given that the fixed youth rating of Hungary isn't the best.

[dave88]

9 hours ago, ShaunG95 said:

Granted but the odds will be stacked against you given that the fixed youth rating of Hungary isn't the best.

So in the end, yes, in my case its a useless funciton 

[Bigpole]

14 hours ago, dave88 said:

So, I play with a hungarian club since more than 10 years, developed my youth facilities and yout recruitments. Wasted a tons of money and i got literally 0 player i could even use. I have to kidnapp starving argentinian kids and force them to play in my club if i want players i can use. So, spending millions on youth recruitment is just useless? 

My head of youth development's talents: working with y 17, juding player potential 17. 

Is there any secret i dont know if i want good local players or in this game you only can find talents in africa and south-amerika? 

Youth Coaching, Youth Recruitment and Youth Facilities are the most important factors when it comes to youth intake (without mentioning the most important factor - Nation youth rating).

If you max out all coaching, recruitment and facilities - you'll have the best odds in hungary to get quality players. Hungarians are not most desired and talented footballers in Europe but there's no chance that you won't get at least one CL quality players in 2/3 years. Trust me, I was manager in Poland, coming from 4th tier club with useless everything and within 15 years I've maxed out everything I could and when fm20 was out I've checked all players that came out of my academy since I'd maxed out everything. In 7-8 years I've got 2 wonderkids (170+), around 8-10 European players (140+ca) and around 15 that were at least polish ekstraklasa level (120ca+). 

I don't know what you mean by player you could even use, but I will bet you any money that in all intakes you have had, you've got at least few players that when developed, could be more than useful. 

And if you are CL quarter-final level IN HUNGARY - think about how many homegrown players are playing in quarter-finals in their respective clubs. And then add Hungary to the equation. 

[CARRERA]

Can‘t Nations youth rating improve over time as the nation / league raises in reputation? Or is it fixed? 

[Bigpole]

14 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Can‘t Nations youth rating improve over time as the nation / league raises in reputation? Or is it fixed? 

youth rating is fixed, league reputation is not but it won't improve youth quality.

[Mars_Blackmon]

Think of it like a lottery ticket. All it does is give you better chance of winning (better ratings = more tickets) doesn’t mean you’re actually going to win. 
 

But in your case (hungry) you’re playing in a lottery that isn’t known to produce winning tickets…Although I doubt you’ve have all “useless” players. 

[Sheikh Amin]

On 02/05/2021 at 03:55, dave88 said:

So, I play with a hungarian club since more than 10 years, developed my youth facilities and yout recruitments. Wasted a tons of money and i got literally 0 player i could even use. I have to kidnapp starving argentinian kids and force them to play in my club if i want players i can use. So, spending millions on youth recruitment is just useless? 

My head of youth development's talents: working with y 17, juding player potential 17. 

Is there any secret i dont know if i want good local players or in this game you only can find talents in africa and south-amerika? 

I personally don't worry myself since i have done everything possible but still i don't get any good players.

All i do is wait for the yearly recruitment date which normally starts in  march and I scout the  players from the other teams and sign the good ones.

[gunnm0nk]

15 hours ago, Bigpole said:

youth rating is fixed, league reputation is not but it won't improve youth quality.

Do you happen to know the reasoning for this? Is this to ensure that on longer saves where you're winning multiple CLs as BATE or whatever that your smaller nation doesn't produce more wonderkids than larger nations or those with more history?

[forameuss]

4 hours ago, gunnm0nk said:

Do you happen to know the reasoning for this? Is this to ensure that on longer saves where you're winning multiple CLs as BATE or whatever that your smaller nation doesn't produce more wonderkids than larger nations or those with more history?

Probably because it's more realistic that way.  A small nation winning the Champions League isn't going to suddenly mean that more kids are better at football.  These things change over generations, if at all.  

EDIT: And also to add, the sort of things that really would lead to these kinds of attributes changing aren't going to be present in the game.  Societal factors are going to be far, far stronger.  In fact, that's likely why it's static and not very gradually dynamic, because putting randomness on those things would be a poor choice to make in my opinion.

Edited May 4, 2021 by forameuss

[Daveincid]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb forameuss:

Probably because it's more realistic that way.  A small nation winning the Champions League isn't going to suddenly mean that more kids are better at football.  These things change over generations, if at all.  

+1. And it's not only about reputation. A small Nation is "small". So they are already limited in terms of population.  Even if in reality a club from Luxembourg would win the CL, they still don't produce several worldclass players. 

[gunnm0nk]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Probably because it's more realistic that way.  A small nation winning the Champions League isn't going to suddenly mean that more kids are better at football.  These things change over generations, if at all.  

EDIT: And also to add, the sort of things that really would lead to these kinds of attributes changing aren't going to be present in the game.  Societal factors are going to be far, far stronger.  In fact, that's likely why it's static and not very gradually dynamic, because putting randomness on those things would be a poor choice to make in my opinion.

 

1 hour ago, Daveincid said:

+1. And it's not only about reputation. A small Nation is "small". So they are already limited in terms of population.  Even if in reality a club from Luxembourg would win the CL, they still don't produce several worldclass players. 

This makes sense but I'll admit to being a little disappointed that the value is totally static. I don't think sudden movement in youth development makes sense, for the reasons you both state, but I'm also kind of a weirdo who plays out 40 year saves. I think it would makes sense for some movement even in smaller nations if you had an extremely successful club like you see in "build a club"/ "build a nation" type saves over a long period. With that said, from a development perspective I completely understand why that value is static. The ROI on serving a small number of players like myself doesn't really warrant introducing potentially very weird behavior into the game.

To OP's original point, (playing on FM19 but I doubt much has changed here) I'm playing in Northern Ireland which I'm assuming has a better national youth rating than Hungary. I'm in a provincial town with a much more established club  on the other side of town. I've matched and outpaced them in terms of junior coaching, youth facilities and youth recruitment within five years and have kind of the opposite problem. I've had a golden generation and have had probably 15+ players in the last three seasons who have come through the youth side who will be useful. The issue is that six of them are strikers when what I really want is someone who can play as a ball winner in a MC/ DM role. I'm no expert, but I suspect that has more to do with the level of the Northern Irish top tier and the country's youth rating more than my facilities.

OP, maybe start scouting hot prospects in Poland, Austria, Czechia, etc. and take satisfaction that you're the club that every kid in Hungary wants to go to? I know it's frustrating, but I hope this doesn't ruin your save for you. 

[Daveincid]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb gunnm0nk:

This makes sense but I'll admit to being a little disappointed that the value is totally static

Just because some values are static doesn't mean that the PA of newgens do not improve. As it's said earlier there are ways to get better newgens. The point is, that you won't reach Brazil-Level with Hungary, but usually the Teams in a Nation like Hungary still has room left in terms of Youth Coaching and stuff.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Daveincid

[gunnm0nk]

12 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

Just because some values are static doesn't mean that the PA of newgens do not improve. As it's said earlier there are ways to get better newgens. The point is, that you won't reach Brazil-Level with Hungary, but usually the Teams in a Nation like Hungary still has room left in terms of Youth Coaching and stuff.

Oh sure, I didn't mean to imply that the PA of newgens is static based on that one data point. I also very much take your point that even if a Hungarian team won 5 CL's in 20 years or whatever that they wouldn't reach the levels of other more established nations. I guess what I was trying to say was that, assuming you've maxed out your youth facilities, junior coaching, etc. and was a European powerhouse for decades in game, it would be neat if Hungarian youth were "inspired" and rather than producing 0-1 wonderkids in that period they might produce 0-1.2 or whatever, weighted on the other factors like population size, club location and all the other variables already in game. With that said, if that change request popped up in my JIRA backlog I'd probably think "That's kind of neat" and move on to a feature that actually benefited more than a very small set of FM players as from my (very limited!) understanding most players don't really go more than five seasons or so on a save, if that.  

[Daveincid]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb gunnm0nk:

I guess what I was trying to say was that, assuming you've maxed out your youth facilities, junior coaching, etc. and was a European powerhouse for decades in game, it would be neat if Hungarian youth were "inspired" and rather than producing 0-1 wonderkids in that period they might produce 0-1.2 or whatever

I tried to say that this is actually happening already  I was already thinking of doing a feature-request with exactly the same thing you mentioned: a low factor boost to static values of let's say 1.2 if you overperform for years. But this is already ingame

[gunnm0nk]

3 minutes ago, Daveincid said:

I tried to say that this is actually happening already  I was already thinking of doing a feature-request with exactly the same thing you mentioned: a low factor boost to static values of let's say 1.2 if you overperform for years. But this is already ingame

 Sorry, I didn't catch your meaning! I'm obviously a n00b around here and I appreciate the education. It's that kind of detail that has me obsessed with this game again...

[silentwars]

If you have the resources you should have the best set up you can to increase your chances of recuriting the best young players, however that doesn't guarantee you'll have any quality coming through especially in a country like Hungry which isn't known for bringing young players through. 

[Daveincid]

Gerade eben schrieb gunnm0nk:

 Sorry, I didn't catch your meaning! I'm obviously a n00b around here and I appreciate the education. It's that kind of detail that has me obsessed with this game again...

all good! my english isn't the best, so it might be a missunderstanding too!

[gunnm0nk]

On 02/05/2021 at 00:55, dave88 said:

So, I play with a hungarian club since more than 10 years, developed my youth facilities and yout recruitments. Wasted a tons of money and i got literally 0 player i could even use. I have to kidnapp starving argentinian kids and force them to play in my club if i want players i can use. So, spending millions on youth recruitment is just useless? 

My head of youth development's talents: working with y 17, juding player potential 17. 

Is there any secret i dont know if i want good local players or in this game you only can find talents in africa and south-amerika? 

One thing you might want to look at that I didn't think of before - Is your HoYD Hungarian or does he have knowledge of Hungary? I don't have data to back it up, but that might have an impact. Just a thought.

[Grifty]

Youth Recruitment is very much not useless. I'm in the Swedish league which I imagine has a higher rating than Hungary, but as a Champions league knock-out round regular, 11 of my squad of 21 came through my youth system. According to the news item that pops up every so often, I've created 36 players who play in the top leagues currently.

I haven't created any players who go on to be elite or world-class, but I don't need them to, I need them to be solid Swedish league players, who if needed I can sell for a few million, or who can play for my team for a number of years. If I look at my best eleven inc subs, 8 of them came through my youth system 2 of them have played over 400 games each.

Make sure your youth coaches are good and each responsibility in training is at least 4 stars. I find that players who come through the intake can massively improve after 2 seasons even if they look a bit naff to begin with. In fact, I just 'found' a centre back in my under 19s while looking through the Swedish U19s, went to buy him because he looked good only to realise he was my player. He's been promoted to the first team now and he was nowhere near that good last season otherwise I would have known who he was.

Edited May 4, 2021 by Grifty