Jump to content

Recommended Posts

its work as intended once the ball is in the final third. CM/D covers the IWB/A while the IWB/A makes a run in to or around the box. but the issue is in the build up play in my own half, both players end up holding hands. the CM/D moves back to cover way too early while IWB/A takes his sweet time in venturing forward. any work arounds? 

Capture.JPG.ab44117efcb8134a2a775e2e0c6f599d.JPG

Link to post
Share on other sites

No need to use a CM on defend duty when you already have a holding DM behind. BWM on support or carrilero would make more sense IMHO. 

I personally would also make a couple of tweaks elsewhere, but if you are pleased with how the tactic works, then better not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

No need to use a CM on defend duty when you already have a holding DM behind. BWM on support or carrilero would make more sense IMHO. 

I personally would also make a couple of tweaks elsewhere, but if you are pleased with how the tactic works, then better not.

still experimenting with the CAM. what other tweaks? 

feels safer with a CM/D on counter since hes almost an RB when we attack. i'll try carrilero 

 

 

EDIT: This is way too ballsy for me, CM/D would occupy the blue box. also Carrilero and IWB still holding hands in our own half. switching mentality to attacking makes the IWB burst forward a little earlier, but then it also affects everyone else's mentality. 

 Capture.JPG.df9ebd1a26ad3d28be3d436e64e876bd.JPG

Edited by rossenori
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, rossenori said:

what other tweaks?

Depends on your intended style of play. But one I would definitely make is switching the RM's duty to support (regardless of the role). 

You also failed to show your instructions, so it's hard to give more feedback on the tactic. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rossenori said:

EDIT: This is way too ballsy for me, CM/D would occupy the blue box. also Carrilero and IWB still holding hands in our own half. switching mentality to attacking makes the IWB burst forward a little earlier, but then it also affects everyone else's mentality. 

 Capture.JPG.df9ebd1a26ad3d28be3d436e64e876bd.JPG

Perhaps training the "Stays Back At All Times" PPM on the carrilero?

"Focus Play Down the Right" to raise the IWB-a mentality even higher? This would dovetail with @Experienced Defender's suggestion to use a W-s on the right. [Edit: as of FM21 this is no longer how focus play works.]

There may be an interaction between winger and IWB with the Underlap instruction, but I'm not sure.

Edited by Prolix
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Depends on your intended style of play. But one I would definitely make is switching the RM's duty to support (regardless of the role). 

You also failed to show your instructions, so it's hard to give more feedback on the tactic. 

i did but he didn't offer much on support, on attack hes currently the joint top goal scorer and assist provider. 

Capture.JPG.174ef832115609b03ad4f4836b3d12f2.JPG

 

2 hours ago, Prolix said:

Perhaps training the "Stays Back At All Times" PPM on the carrilero?

"Focus Play Down the Right" to raise the IWB-a mentality even higher? This would dovetail with @Experienced Defender's suggestion to use a W-s on the right. [Edit: as of FM21 this is no longer how focus play works.]

There may be an interaction between winger and IWB with the Underlap instruction, but I'm not sure.

so how does focus play work now? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rossenori said:

so how does focus play work now? 

"Focus play instructions now encourage players to drift into the half spaces to support the direction of focus. It also tells your team to play more passes into the focus area."

[h/t @Zemahh for bringing this change to my attention]

And sorry @rossenorifor the misleading advice! 

Edited by Prolix
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rossenori said:

Capture.JPG.174ef832115609b03ad4f4836b3d12f2.JPG

The main problem is contradiction between your possession-oriented Tis (PoD & short passing) and setup of roles and duties that is not quite possession-friendly. If you want to play a short-passing style, you need smoother interaction between roles and duties. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The main problem is contradiction between your possession-oriented Tis (PoD & short passing) and setup of roles and duties that is not quite possession-friendly. If you want to play a short-passing style, you need smoother interaction between roles and duties. 

how does that have anything to do with the RCM and RB problem? 2nd in the league, punching way above my weight. clearly the TIs and roles are working, plus i change TIs according to how the match is being played. 

Edited by rossenori
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rossenori said:

how does that have anything to do with the RCM and RB problem? 2nd in the league, punching way above my weight

Great. Then just keep playing. Simple as that. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, the IWB will move inside if there are less then 2 DM or stay wide if there is no player ahead of him.

so regarding your case the IWB will most likely sit narrow and cut inside as there is a winger in front of him and just one DM. If you want to stay more defensively solid i suggest playing the IWB with a defend duty and the CM on attack or at least support. Playing both CM and IWB on support you will create more fluid movement between them both which may lead to overloading the central space from time to time.

haveing the CM on defend or the IWB on attack will lead to more overlapping relations between those 2 players, which once again will lead to overloading situations.

anyway, if your system works well - why change anything

Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

haveing the CM on defend or the IWB on attack will lead to more overlapping relations between those 2 players, which once again will lead to overloading situations.

anyway, if your system works well - why change anything

OP is frustrated at the RCM and IWB occupying the same spaces during build up / before the IWB overlaps.

I have had the exact same frustration with an R-IWB behind a Roaming Playmaker in the RCM spot standing right on top of each other. I thought a roaming role would encourage some separation, but unfortunately not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You need width for IWBs to be effective. It's a narrow positioning role they offer support centrally which meens you can play wider with that extra man in midfield. Think of City how wide they play. Using IWBs with narrower width is just like playing narrower with already narrow formation like 4321. Makes no sense. 

Edited by Mitja
Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Mitja said:

You need width for IWBs to be effective. It's a narrow positioning role they offer support centrally which meens you can play wider with that extra man in midfield. Think of City how wide they play. Using IWBs with narrower width is just like playing narrower with already narrow formation like 4321. Makes no sense. 

its a 4-1-4-1 set on fairly wide...

8 hours ago, Prolix said:

OP is frustrated at the RCM and IWB occupying the same spaces during build up / before the IWB overlaps.

I have had the exact same frustration with an R-IWB behind a Roaming Playmaker in the RCM spot standing right on top of each other. I thought a roaming role would encourage some separation, but unfortunately not.

BINGO 

setting mentality to attacking or very attacking encourages him to make his run earlier but i don't want to affect everyone elses mentality. moving him up to RWB also encourages him to get forward earlier but then he also defends a little higher than an RB. 

dont think the game allows for what im trying to accomplish

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rossenori said:

setting mentality to attacking or very attacking encourages him to make his run earlier but i don't want to affect everyone elses mentality.

Well, if you just want him to make earlier runs you can try to remove play out of defense and or add counter TI 

while counter TI encourages players to move forward immediately after possession is won, play out of defense encourages defenders (including dms) to paticipate into build up play.

if that doesn’t help either I guess you might be right, it’s not achievable 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...