Adjusting In Possession Defensive Line & Offensive Line

[zabyl]

I know that we can set most things with current tactics creator. But there is a subject that is puzzling my head for a long time. I searched on the forums but I didn't find anything about it. So I ask if somebody can share their opinion with me. 

 

Firstly; I know that we can adjust out of possession Defensive Line & Line of Engagement with out of possession TIs. But how can we adjust Defensive Line when our team has possession? And how can we adjust our most advanced players' positions when we have the ball? For example; if my CB has the ball how can I adjust my lone striker's highest position and when my striker has the ball how can I adjust my 2 CBs' highest position? 

 

So you see there is no TI related to what I mentioned in in possession.

 

I am aware that they are dynamic and related to the opponent but I guess they are effected directly with team mentality. Am I wrong or not?

[Experienced Defender]

36 minutes ago, zabyl said:

I know that we can adjust out of possession Defensive Line & Line of Engagement with out of possession TIs. But how can we adjust Defensive Line when our team has possession?

Actually, the Defensive line instruction largely affects the positioning of your defenders when you have possession as well. So it's not purely an out-of-possession TI, even if it nominally is. 

 

36 minutes ago, zabyl said:

And how can we adjust our most advanced players' positions when we have the ball? For example; if my CB has the ball how can I adjust my lone striker's highest position and when my striker has the ball how can I adjust my 2 CBs' highest position? 

You cannot literally adjust these, simply because football is a dynamic game, so positioning of players is determined by more factors than just your tactical instructions. For example, you have the ball in your own half and the opposition defense is positioned very high (close to the half-way line). It automatically affects the positioning of your forwards, because if they move deeper into the opposition half at that point, they'll logically be caught offside. 

When it comes to positioning of your CBs when your striker has the ball, that's of course defined by your defensive line setting in tandem with the mentality, but is also partly affected by situational factors. As an example: your keeper or defender plays a long pass from your own penalty area directly to your striker. When the striker receives the ball, your defense will naturally be positioned deep even if you play with a high D-line, simply because they did not have the time to move higher up by the time the ball reached your striker. On the other hand, your CBs may be encouraged to move pretty high up if you are completely dominating the game in the opposition half, even if your D-line is not set to high. Because the opposition is pinned into their box, so there is little danger of your defense being suddenly exposed on the counter (which in some situations can still backfire, if your defenders misjudge the situation). 

[zabyl]

7 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Actually, the Defensive line instruction largely affects the positioning of your defenders when you have possession as well. So it's not purely an out-of-possession TI, even if it nominally is. 

 

You cannot literally adjust these, simply because football is a dynamic game, so positioning of players is determined by more factors than just your tactical instructions. For example, you have the ball in your own half and the opposition defense is positioned very high (close to the half-way line). It automatically affects the positioning of your forwards, because if they move deeper into the opposition half at that point, they'll logically be caught offside. 

When it comes to positioning of your CBs when your striker has the ball, that's of course defined by your defensive line setting in tandem with the mentality, but is also partly affected by situational factors. As an example: your keeper or defender plays a long pass from your own penalty area directly to your striker. When the striker receives the ball, your defense will naturally be positioned deep even if you play with a high D-line, simply because they did not have the time to move higher up by the time the ball reached your striker. On the other hand, your CBs may be encouraged to move pretty high up if you are completely dominating the game in the opposition half, even if your D-line is not set to high. Because the opposition is pinned into their box, so there is little danger of your defense being suddenly exposed on the counter (which in some situations can still backfire, if your defenders misjudge the situation). 

Then DL in out of possession TIs also effects dynamic positioning of DL when the team has the ball.

All I wanted to know was just one thing. Could we adjust attacking depth of our players (vertical spaces in between lines) like attacking width? I think this can be added to in possession TIs in future FMs. 

Thanks for the answer.

[Experienced Defender]

12 minutes ago, zabyl said:

Then DL in out of possession TIs also effects dynamic positioning of DL when the team has the ball

Yes, that's exactly what I said. 

 

13 minutes ago, zabyl said:

All I wanted to know was just one thing. Could we adjust attacking depth of our players (vertical spaces in between lines) like attacking width?

Well, that's essentially about the interaction between your roles and duties, i.e. how you set them up. 

[zabyl]

8 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

23 minutes ago, zabyl said:

All I wanted to know was just one thing. Could we adjust attacking depth of our players (vertical spaces in between lines) like attacking width?

Well, that's essentially about the interaction between your roles and duties, i.e. how you set them up. 

Sorry but I disagree with this. I played same match with same roles/duties with different team mentalities. When we have the ball; vertical space between players in higher team mentalities was lower than lower team mentalities. So I think; team mentality effects attacking depth more than player roles/duties.

[Experienced Defender]

Okay.

[CARRERA]

Vertical depth when in possession is affected by different things. All, the enemies Defensive line, your defensive line, roles & duties, as well as your teams general forward movement from mentality and other settings. 
Also tactical discipline, not allowing your players to roam around will help when playing vertically and direct.

 

[zabyl]

7 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Vertical depth when in possession is affected by different things. All, the enemies Defensive line, your defensive line, roles & duties, as well as your teams general forward movement from mentality and other settings. 
Also tactical discipline, not allowing your players to roam around will help when playing vertically and direct.

 

Yes. I agree. What I wanted to tell is; It is more complex to adjust a reference point to attacking depth than to adjust a reference point to attacking width.

For those many reasons which effect attacking depth, they might have deliberately set it up like this purposely for not complexing it too much.

[zyfon5]

14 hours ago, zabyl said:

Firstly; I know that we can adjust out of possession Defensive Line & Line of Engagement with out of possession TIs. But how can we adjust Defensive Line when our team has possession? And how can we adjust our most advanced players' positions when we have the ball? For example; if my CB has the ball how can I adjust my lone striker's highest position and when my striker has the ball how can I adjust my 2 CBs' highest position? 

 

1)When your team has possession and to some extent when out of possession, your defensive line is determined by the most forward player of the other team. This is to reduce the spaces between lines and keep your team shape as compact as possible. Just try to play a striker on support duty and a striker with aggressive duty like poacher and notice the difference in defensive line of the other team.

2) the position of the most forward player is determined by his role. If your striker is a poacher then he will stay much higher than lets say a DLF(s). However do note that the player position is always changing so a poacher can still drop deep and link up play but he will do it on a lower frequency than a DLF(s). The LOE is also partly responsible for your players positioning since a team that presses high is more likely to have players in more forward positions.

Edited April 23, 2021 by zyfon5

[zyfon5]

13 hours ago, zabyl said:

Then DL in out of possession TIs also effects dynamic positioning of DL when the team has the ball.

All I wanted to know was just one thing. Could we adjust attacking depth of our players (vertical spaces in between lines) like attacking width? I think this can be added to in possession TIs in future FMs. 

Thanks for the answer.

You cannot effectively control the vertical space in between your lines when you have possession. Only the defending team can dictate that. For example if you want to play with a lot of space between your lines and the other team could just easily counter it by playing with more compactness between their lines making all your forward players in an offside position. The converse is also true. Sorry to say but this is an absurd idea in football that you want to control the vertical spaces between the lines when you are attacking. You want to do that as the defending team not the team that is attacking.

[Mitja]

14 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

You cannot effectively control the vertical space in between your lines when you have possession.

You can more fluid systems are more compact and more structered are loose. Difference is obvious going from flexible to fluid let alone from v. structed to v. fluid.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Mitja

[zyfon5]

21 minutes ago, Mitja said:

You can more fluid systems are more compact and more structered are loose. Difference is obvious going from flexible to fluid let alone from v. structed to v. fluid.

There might be some misunderstanding about fluidity in FM here. More fluid systems means that players are more willing to do outside what they are currently assigned to do. For example, strikers will be more willing to get back to defend in more fluid systems and full backs will be more willing to go up and attack. However players getting more compact is not necessary less spaces between the lines because the boundaries that you can move in is still the same. It is just that in more fluid systems players are more willing to shuffle between lines rather than staying in their own assigned area.

Notice I am using the word effective here. Of course you can always put all players on support duty to make them more willing to move around or adjust the player roles so that they stretch as vertically as possible.  But OP is asking for adjusting the offensive line not options that are available in the game. And my question to OP is If the other team is playing very compact, what is the point for your defensive line to stand so close to your own goal and your striker to play extremely close to the other goal? Yes you are stretching the vertical space but it is just not effective.

Edited April 23, 2021 by zyfon5

[Mitja]

53 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

There might be some misunderstanding about fluidity in FM here. More fluid systems means that players are more willing to do outside what they are currently assigned to do. For example, strikers will be more willing to get back to defend in more fluid systems and full backs will be more willing to go up and attack.

Of course because mentality distribution is closer together with more fluid systems. On top more support duties are used and these two things create compact lines.

[zabyl]

37 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

There might be some misunderstanding about fluidity in FM here. More fluid systems means that players are more willing to do outside what they are currently assigned to do. For example, strikers will be more willing to get back to defend in more fluid systems and full backs will be more willing to go up and attack. However players getting more compact is not necessary less spaces between the lines because the boundaries that you can move in is still the same. It is just that in more fluid systems players are more willing to shuffle between lines rather than staying in their own assigned area.

Notice I am using the word effective here. Of course you can always put all players on support duty to make them more willing to move around or adjust the player roles so that they stretch as vertically as possible.  But OP is asking for adjusting the offensive line not options that are available in the game. And my question to OP is If the other team is playing very compact, what is the point for your defensive line to stand so close to your own goal and your striker to play extremely close to the other goal? Yes you are stretching the vertical space but it is just not effective.

More fluid means lesser vertical space between players. More structured means bigger vertical space between players. Fluidity is effected from duties but more from team mentality. That is what I see on match engine.

 

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

1)When your team has possession and to some extent when out of possession, your defensive line is determined by the most forward player of the other team.

That is a general info and it is not wrong for the basics. But what I see on match engine is; both teams' mentalities effect DL's adjustment more than roles/duties for both sides.

 

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

2) the position of the most forward player is determined by his role. If your striker is a poacher then he will stay much higher than lets say a DLF(s).

This is also a reference info. But my explanation is the same again. Both teams' mentalities effect more when you watch on match engine.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts 

[Bot Makel]

Roles and duties affect most of all in a tactic!

The team mentality defines the risk you want to take and is a consequence of the setting of the roles and duties you have chosen

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by Bot Makel

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

your defensive line is determined by the most forward player of the other team.

It is actually the other way around, the defensive line limits the Potential forward positioning of the others team striker. If the striker would move further forward he would simply be trapped offside. Unless the the defensive line moved up into the other team half of the pitch as then obviously no offside exists.

The role and duty just determines how much hes playing to the limit of his space.

 

@zabyl as we discussed already there are few things, but if you really want maximum vertical space, properbly defensive line is the easiest way to go. if you pick a very low defensive line you will find yourself with huge gaps vertically. 

[zabyl]

37 minutes ago, Bot Makel said:

 

Roles and duties affect most of all in a tactic!

The team mentality defines the risk you want to take and is a consequence of the setting of the roles and duties you have chosen

 

Logically yes, we all know the basics that roles/duties affect most of all in a tactic. But is it really like that on match engine? It’s not that simple.

Also team mentality does not only define risk, it defines everything.  

[CARRERA]

What are looking for btw? What’s your match plan, or did you ask just out of interest? Just curious

[zabyl]

1 minute ago, CARRERA said:

What are looking for btw? What’s your match plan, or did you ask just out of interest? Just curious

I just opened this thread for different opinions from experienced fm players about the title. And I’m happy to see many different approaches to mine like @Experienced Defender @zyfon5 @Mitja .

 

[Experienced Defender]

51 minutes ago, zabyl said:

team mentality does not only define risk, it defines everything

It affects/adjusts everything (through its automatic impact on all other team instructions and individual player mentalities), but does not define.