Tips and trick to decrease the number of times keepers hoof the ball

[Hallothere]

Since there will be no further updates to the ME's, i have tried to find a way to make my goalkeeper follow short distribution instrcutions. I have even cheated at given my goal keeper the trait "plays short simple passes", but nothing seems to work, he keeps hoofing, despite havin men right in front of him.

 

I have tried all keeper roles, no difference, and pretty much tried all of the possible distribution options.

 

anyone who have found something that decreases this problem, or will we just have to live with it, untill FM22

 

 

[Cult of Football Manager]

Can we see your whole tactic? Would be interesting to see if you have counter attack on for transition etc. 

[zabyl]

Decreasing team mentality (risk) can help. GK Distribution TIs can also help.

[Hallothere]

surely... it is a pretty weird tactic, however it works wonders, despite getting GK's to follow instructions 

 

 

[DarJ]

using a sweeper keeper on defend and asking him to take less risk works but he will still kick long from time to time 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Just spitballing but Distribute to Specific Team-mate could be a potential reason for this sort of behaviour.  Possibly in conjunction with slow pace down.

The basic gist is that the goalkeeper is being asked to distribute to a player that is likely to be marked (and thus potentially not on as a passing option) and further, slowing it down when he gets the ball is liable to further increase the chance the specified recipient is to be marked.

I'd recommend watching a match and paying attention to what's going on specifically when he does thump the ball long.

But there's a lot going on with this tactic (and potentially player stuff too) so yeah, spitball.

[Hallothere]

I can see what you mean, but as i wrote in the start i have tried pretty much everythinh, and right now i am testing playing to a specific players,

 

before that i have tried, to defenders, playmaker, just play it short etc.  but nothing seems to stop him from just hoofing away :/

[Mitja]

Another true defender could help there.

[zabyl]

58 minutes ago, Hallothere said:

surely... it is a pretty weird tactic, however it works wonders, despite getting GK's to follow instructions 

 

 

Remove be more expressive & pass into space and see if that helps.

Also you use a specific player distribution who can be “marked out” by opposition which can cause the issue.

[Cult of Football Manager]

First off let me say i'm not here to blindly defend the game I know this has been an issue for lots of people i'm just posting to help offer some thoughts from my own experience and hoping it can help.

Are you talking here at Goal kicks or when your GK has the ball after the ball is played long by the opposition? 

When teams press my tactic that is heavily based on playing out from the back and retaining the ball, they can often bring 4 players to press my backline on a goal kick or when the GK has the ball. What i've found is my GK likes to go long if the back 4 are marked which doesn't happen often especially if he collects it in his hands after a long ball as their team is a lot deeper and can't get up to press 4 players. But on a goal kick he makes a lot of decisions based on specifically that it appears.

Now you have only the 3 defenders. I assume if the same thing happens to your team that the opposition can have potentially 4 players pressing aggressively centrally to the point of screening the 3 DLP's you have in the middle ( and they might look open to you but the GK may not want to play it ) but also close enough to the WB's for the GK to feel like that isn't on either? Would be also interesting to note if your DLP's drop into the back line to get on the ball do any opposition players follow them even a little?

@Experienced Defender would be the person to help with this from a tactical point of view I think there may be an issue with your tactic regarding this specific issue in this specific case and how the match engine is reading your set up here. Again not talking about issues with success of the tactic just this specific issue. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Cult of Football Manager

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Hallothere said:

it is a pretty weird tactic, however it works wonders, despite getting GK's to follow instructions

It looks like an obvious example of a plug'n'play/exploit tactic, which is the most probable reason why it works. Because a tactic like that should otherwise never ever work, simply because it makes no sense at all. So if the keeper not following instructions is the only problem, you should be extremely happy, believe me. 

I apologize in advance if you don't like my extreme honesty, but that's simply how things stand. 

[XuluBak]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

It looks like an obvious example of a plug'n'play/exploit tactic, which is the most probable reason why it works. Because a tactic like that should otherwise never ever work, simply because it makes no sense at all. So if the keeper not following instructions is the only problem, you should be extremely happy, believe me. 

I apologize in advance if you don't like my extreme honesty, but that's simply how things stand. 

This.

That said, I've found GK distribution absolutely dreadful this year regardless of what I do with my tactical setup. It's easily one of my biggest frustrations. 

[Hallothere]

56 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

It looks like an obvious example of a plug'n'play/exploit tactic, which is the most probable reason why it works. Because a tactic like that should otherwise never ever work, simply because it makes no sense at all. So if the keeper not following instructions is the only problem, you should be extremely happy, believe me. 

I apologize in advance if you don't like my extreme honesty, but that's simply how things stand. 

I fine with you being honest..

 

But i have to say that this is not at plug and play tactic.

 

I started out with a 3-4-3 johan cruyff and had success. Because I wanted to spice of the game i started trying out different variations. Which lead to this tactic.

 

So it is not a plug and play, this it just experimentation base on a set of core principles for my save.

 

The problem arises when my keeper keeps hoofing despite there being totally unmarked players right in front of him.

[Keyzer Soze]

Never cease to amaze me this tactics were all the instructions are selected, and they work very well in the game.

It's almost like stretching the limits of the Match Engine, and still be able to get good results. 

[crusadertsar]

9 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Never cease to amaze me this tactics were all the instructions are selected, and they work very well in the game.

It's almost like stretching the limits of the Match Engine, and still be able to get good results. 

 Basically having all the instructions possible selected and it still works. Simply amazes me.

So I wonder if he opted for not having any instructions at all, the results probably wouldn't be all that bad

[Keyzer Soze]

2 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

 Basically having all the instructions possible selected and it still works. Simply amazes me.

So I wonder if he opted for not having any instructions at all, the results probably wouldn't be all that bad

Could be.

But it's funny, 

That tactic is almost a classic example of all the this things that common sence tell us that shouldn't work.... even the player roles are so strange... and yet...it works.

i wonder, if SI, when is testing the game, test the ME with this kind of tactics....

 

[crusadertsar]

6 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Could be.

But it's funny, 

That tactic is almost a classic example of all the this things that common sence tell us that shouldn't work.... even the player roles are so strange... and yet...it works.

i wonder, if SI, when is testing the game, test the ME with this kind of tactics....

 

They probably should. By God now that I actually look at the roles WOW I had my own Single CB crazy tactic but not even in my craziest fever dream did I think to implement those roles and duties. Maybe I had it all wrong and should go back and implement some of OPs tweaks   

Edited April 22, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Hallothere]

Dont know what to tell you guys, other than i know it is kind of weird but somehow it works, and even agains the big teams.

 

In my first season i CL i got a result like this. We are able to control possession so well.

 

And thank you for all the suggestions. i will try them, and see if i see a difference

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Hallothere said:

I fine with you being honest..

 

But i have to say that this is not at plug and play tactic.

 

I started out with a 3-4-3 johan cruyff and had success. Because I wanted to spice of the game i started trying out different variations. Which lead to this tactic.

 

So it is not a plug and play, this it just experimentation base on a set of core principles for my save

Maybe you unintentionally created an exploit tactic by yourself (as opposed to downloading someone else's)  

[Keyzer Soze]

4 hours ago, Hallothere said:

Dont know what to tell you guys, other than i know it is kind of weird but somehow it works, and even agains the big teams.

 

In my first season i CL i got a result like this. We are able to control possession so well.

 

And thank you for all the suggestions. i will try them, and see if i see a difference

 

Please, don't take my words in the wrong way. 

The most important thing in FM is enjoy the game, no matter the way you play the game. 

And, if the tactic is working, then great, just keep using it and have fun. I think that many times we forget to have fun and get to strict about the way FM should reflect real life football... and forget that FM is a game. 

But, when we look at your tactic.... 3 defenders... 4 playmakers... All players upfront attacking... And th instructions... ... so many... just got me thinking how well the match engine is working.

But never forget the most important thing about the game... If you are winning... Then you can you must be doing something right!!