Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

[Costanino Hummels]

3 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Si dices que un juego incompleto o un juego basado en una hoja de cálculo, en el que los números no funcionan es un juego que no está roto, no tengo nada más que discutir contigo.

Ve a comprar un coche sin ruedas y disfruta de la experiencia.

It is an exaggeration but I understand your point my friend.

We have had a product for almost 4 months that is not working properly and we have every right to come here to complain.

If they want to dismantle our arguments with comments like "ohhh what an analogy", etc ... there are them.

The faithful consumer will go away little by little and they will regret it

[BigV]

1 hour ago, Costanino Hummels said:

It is an exaggeration but I understand your point my friend.

We have had a product for almost 4 months that is not working properly and we have every right to come here to complain.

If they want to dismantle our arguments with comments like "ohhh what an analogy", etc ... there are them.

The faithful consumer will go away little by little and they will regret it

You do have every right to complain but *some* of those that do take it a step too far, broken game? if it was broken it wouldnt work, to use his car analogy *which is a terrible one in itself* is like driving a car with a faulty radio- Main parts still work, some issues that can effect the experience but the mian parts still working for you enough to drive/play. 

You've come to the feedback forums to put in complaints, do not get hurt when those that enjoy it fight back with their defense, there are better ways to complain about the game with constructive criticism.

Alot of people have said the same thing you said about the consumer going and they will regret it, heck I said the same thing in this forum 2 years back and you know what happened? i got fm20 for free, didnt like it and skipped it, i got fm21 through a friend and enjoyed it again and came back, things change, games change. 

Im sure they're working on a hotfix or even big patch to fix the issues, be patient, it's harder for them given the coniditions we're all in even if you think its a fundamental problem, some wont think it is, some go what they see by sight, there was a poll not to long ago and stats wasn't anywhere near the top 3 in most important they wanted to see improved- The ME, the graphics and UI was. 

[Tyburn]

Patience is learnt. From 20+ years with this title  

[Costanino Hummels]

I'm going to make an analogy too

Let's imagine we have a nice neighborhood bakery in a small town

The locals buy the bread daily because it is of quality and good, the baker has a very good relationship with the customer

One day that town, thanks to (insert reason here) became touristy

The baker has to sell more loaves and because of that the quality of his bread decreases

The baker is happy to receive his money and to please the new customers, but loyal consumers notice a decrease in the quality of the bread.

Loyal consumers ask him why the bread is worse than before and the baker gets angry and tells them that why do they tell him that, it is bread that can be eaten

Then one day (insert reason here) the town ceases to be touristy and the baker almost runs out of customers and the loyal consumers have forgotten their old trusted baker

End

[Keyzer Soze]

3 minutes ago, Costanino Hummels said:

I'm going to make an analogy too

Let's imagine we have a nice neighborhood bakery in a small town

The locals buy the bread daily because it is of quality and good, the baker has a very good relationship with the customer

One day that town, thanks to (insert reason here) became touristy

The baker has to sell more loaves and because of that the quality of his bread decreases

The baker is happy to receive his money and to please the new customers, but loyal consumers notice a decrease in the quality of the bread.

Loyal consumers ask him why the bread is worse than before and the baker gets angry and tells them that why do they tell him that, it is bread that can be eaten

Then one day (insert reason here) the town ceases to be touristy and the baker almost runs out of customers and the loyal consumers have forgotten their old trusted baker

End

I just want to congrats on the first bread analogy of this forum! 

[Costanino Hummels]

6 minutes ago, BigV said:

Tienes todo el derecho a quejarte, pero * algunos * de los que lo hacen van demasiado lejos, ¿juego roto? si estuviera roto, no funcionaría, para usar la analogía de su automóvil * que es terrible en sí misma * es como conducir un automóvil con una radio defectuosa: las partes principales aún funcionan, algunos problemas pueden afectar la experiencia, pero las partes principales siguen funcionando para ti lo suficiente para conducir / jugar. 

Has venido a los foros de comentarios para presentar quejas, no te lastimes cuando los que disfrutan luchan con su defensa, hay mejores formas de quejarse del juego con críticas constructivas.

Mucha gente ha dicho lo mismo que usted dijo sobre el consumidor que se va y se arrepentirán, diablos, dije lo mismo en este foro hace 2 años y ¿saben qué pasó? obtuve FM20 gratis, no me gustó y me lo salté, obtuve FM21 a través de un amigo y lo disfruté de nuevo y regresé, las cosas cambian, los juegos cambian. 

Estoy seguro de que están trabajando en una revisión o incluso en un parche grande para solucionar los problemas, tenga paciencia, es más difícil para ellos dadas las condiciones en las que estamos todos, incluso si cree que es un problema fundamental, algunos no pensarán que lo es, otros lo harán. lo que ven a simple vista, hubo una encuesta no hace mucho y las estadísticas no estaban cerca de los 3 primeros en lo más importante que querían ver mejorado: el ME, los gráficos y la interfaz de usuario. 

So what's the point of doing a long-term save if a lot of statistics aren't being saved and the AI is a huge disaster? What's the point of playing? What's the point if no new newgens are going to emerge in a few years? What is the point of buying the game in advance and waiting 4 months for a solution?

This is not Fifa or Pes. This is an immersion game that is not meeting your expectations.

This is reportable to the consumer ombudsman. And I already know how this video game market works. You put out a game and now companies have a margin to say "oooh sorry we're working on it". But things get complicated when we are talking about a game that is published year after year and that works halfway for 4-5 months.

[Costanino Hummels]

4 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

¡Solo quiero felicitarme por la primera analogía de pan de este foro! 

;))

[Federico]

1 minuto fa, Costanino Hummels ha scritto:

This is not Fifa or Pes. This is an immersion game that is not meeting your expectations.

You mean "your" expectations.

Because mine are totally met in fact.

[BigV]

I dont wanna clutter this up but I can see where you're going with this and it still doesn't fit.

Streamers and websites- Zealand, rashidi (bustthenet), FM scout, workthespace, jamie king etc. all have been *local*customers, sure they've had problems and issues with the game, but they comeback, do you know why? cuase the game is fullfilling to them, now put those that play the game WITHOUT being streamers (inc those in here, forums and outside the forums) it still stands to succeed because the SI try their damn hardest to fix the issues but sometimes with the coding it creates new ones that you cant fix in time for patches.

It's okay to demand something that should be fine but with a game like FM any little fix can massively change another thing and they have to prepare for that, fixing it is another issue... 

[Costanino Hummels]

6 minutes ago, Federico said:

Te refieres a "tus" expectativas.

Porque los míos se cumplen totalmente de hecho.

you mean to play for juventus and win it all?, ¡¡¡congratulations !!!

Edited February 12, 2021 by Costanino Hummels

[Costanino Hummels]

Hace 8 minutos, BigV dijo:

No quiero desordenar esto, pero puedo ver a dónde vas con esto y todavía no encaja.

Streamers y sitios web: Zealand, rashidi (bustthenet), FM scout, workthespace, jamie king, etc. todos han sido clientes * locales *, seguro que han tenido problemas y problemas con el juego, pero regresan, ¿sabes por qué? Ya que el juego les satisface, ahora ponga a los que juegan el juego SIN ser streamers (incluidos los que están aquí, los foros y fuera de los foros), todavía tiene éxito porque el SI hace todo lo posible para solucionar los problemas, pero a veces con el codificarlo crea otros nuevos que no se pueden arreglar un tiempo para los parches.

Está bien exigir algo que debería estar bien, pero con un juego como FM, cualquier pequeña corrección puede cambiar enormemente otra cosa y tienen que prepararse para eso, arreglarlo es otro problema ... 

Lo resumiría en pocas palabras: no tienen competencia

And do not talk to me about streamers, websites, magazines, etc. they all give them money to speak well, please

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Costanino Hummels

[Federico]

1 minuto fa, Costanino Hummels ha scritto:

play with Juventus and win it all, Congratulations !!!

Thanks I'll try it up!!!

[BigV]

4 minutes ago, Costanino Hummels said:

So what's the point of doing a long-term save if a lot of statistics aren't being saved and the AI is a huge disaster? What's the point of playing? What's the point if no new newgens are going to emerge in a few years? What is the point of buying the game in advance and waiting 4 months for a solution?

This is not Fifa or Pes. This is an immersion game that is not meeting your expectations.

This is reportable to the consumer ombudsman. And I already know how this video game market works. You put out a game and now companies have a margin to say "oooh sorry we're working on it". But things get complicated when we are talking about a game that is published year after year and that works halfway for 4-5 months.

If you are unhappy with the product then you simply dont buy it again (usually), if you like it enough but hated a version or few then you check it out and see how it goes. 

Ive seen people in 2045 doing completely fine and doing fine with their newgens, i look at stats usually and although some are wrong or not even recorded, I can still tell by the way we played the game cause I watch the game- that can be an issue for those who dont watch it. No one it telling you to play it now and keep playing it, its called patience, if its gonna get fixed it will, very rare do they mess something so *important* that doesnt get fixed.

It's really not, for it to be reportable the game has to be close to a fully broken game, you've exaggarated that much that its no use trying to change your opinion. 

Put it this way ive played fm17 till this day, i didnt like 19/20, i bought 18 and wasnt happy, you know what I did? i came on here to complain, within 2 years I realised that was the wrong thing to do, the more you know how the game works and how its made the more you realise its not all danndy no matter how much you expect it to be on the front of it. 

[BigV]

8 minutes ago, Costanino Hummels said:

Lo resumiría en pocas palabras: no tienen competencia

And do not talk to me about streamers, websites, magazines, etc. they all give them money to speak well, please

 

They do not, for certain Jamie doesn't, it's his hobbie, dont come to false conclusions that you dont know. 

Mods im happy for you to clean this up, apologies. 

[HUNT3R]

Ok, this stops now. Cut out the bickering and cut out the insults. If you don't have feedback on the game, don't post in the feedback thread. Have removed a few comments. We're better than this as a community.

[JordanMilly]

56 minutes ago, Costanino Hummels said:

Lo resumiría en pocas palabras: no tienen competencia

And do not talk to me about streamers, websites, magazines, etc. they all give them money to speak well, please

 

If SI pay money to streamers to speak well of the game, I need to get in touch with Miles for my cheque, I've been missing out!

I can assure you, SI have very little to do with streamers, youtubers, etc, unless it's one of SI's formally run events, and they're also some of the most vocal people when it comes to issues in the game. In future, it'd probably be best for you not to make false accusations about things you clearly have no knowledge of.

[kertiek]

i cant wait to play the full  game after the next update

for me the current problems are:

- incomplete match stats 

- poor wide play due to excessive crossing and/or lack of dribbles

- imposible to disable automatic substitutions while using match plans

- personalized positions wont save/work and constantly lose any changes made on them

- set piece instructions are never used, no matter what u change on them, they are not using in the matches, specially the throw ins on attack.

the list its longer but at least this points are key for me.

took the time to report each of the mentioned problems with detailed posts with all the required information months ago, sadly all those posts are inaccessible now because all the bugs reported in the first 5 or 6 weeks access to public play since November are now hidden.

[Platinum]

35 minutes ago, kertiek said:

i cant wait to play the full  game after the next update

for me the current problems are:

- incomplete match stats 

- poor wide play due to excessive crossing and/or lack of dribbles

- imposible to disable automatic substitutions while using match plans

- personalized positions wont save/work and constantly lose any changes made on them

- set piece instructions are never used, no matter what u change on them, they are not using in the matches, specially the throw ins on attack.

the list its longer but at least this points are key for me.

took the time to report each of the mentioned problems with detailed posts with all the required information months ago, sadly all those posts are inaccessible now because all the bugs reported in the first 5 or 6 weeks access to public play since November are now hidden.

I'd repost the '- personalized positions wont save/work and constantly lose any changes made on them' if i were you. All the others have been posted again apart from that one (im not 100% sure on the set piece one though)

Edited February 12, 2021 by francis#17

[kertiek]

8 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

I'd repost the '- personalized positions wont save/work and constantly lose any changes made on them' if i were you. All the others have been posted again apart from that one (im not 100% sure on the set piece one though)

 

[maestro31]

I've noticed theres no point providing feedback as it's often dismissed. Just because its playable doesn't mean it is satisfactory to a large portion of the community, why do we pay for a game that is not up to the satisfactory requirements of the consumers, mind you we are almost approaching 3 months of the full release of the game and there are too many flaws which won't be fixed and rectified until the next iteration of fm.

[XaW]

13 minutes ago, maestro31 said:

I've noticed theres no point providing feedback as it's often dismissed. Just because its playable doesn't mean it is satisfactory to a large portion of the community, why do we pay for a game that is not up to the satisfactory requirements of the consumers, mind you we are almost approaching 3 months of the full release of the game and there are too many flaws which won't be fixed and rectified until the next iteration of fm.

This is a feedback thread, and SI will read every and all comments in here. They won't necessarily respond to things, but they will read it. Any feedback, positive or negative are not dismissed as long as it is posted within the guidelines of the forum. Those who are not are subject to removal, and the content matter is not part of that, only the tone of the message. Coming in here and saying "I like that and that, however, that and that I don't like. Also this thing here does not work as I want it", that's perfectly fine. Coming in here calling the devs expletives or saying "teh gam is bruken lolz" is not the way, and doing things like that will most likely get a reaction, but rather from the mods than the devs.

Additionally, this is not a place for reporting bugs, there are a section for that, so bug reports should go there.

Finally, please remember that people play the game in different ways, so (and this is not directed at you maestro) if someone has another view of the game than you, that's perfectly fine. If you really want to discuss those things, keep it in DMs and let this thread contain actual feedback.

[SazoJohnno]

Firstly of all - I want to congratulate @XaW(however belatedly) on becoming a moderator. 

 

Secondly - Just a small feedback that I think hasn't been touched on by anyone yet - At end of the seasons award, it become a little laggy while scrolling down the players when on the transfers for the season and it process to the next part very slowly. Has anyone experienced this as well or is it just me? 

[BenW.]

Does anyone else's FM revert to Full Screen Mode when loading up the game? I play in Windowed and it's really frustrating when I keep having to change the settings every time I load it up.

I'm on a MacBook Air M1 if it helps.

[Gee_Simpson]

24 minutes ago, BenW. said:

Does anyone else's FM revert to Full Screen Mode when loading up the game? I play in Windowed and it's really frustrating when I keep having to change the settings every time I load it up.

I'm on a MacBook Air M1 if it helps.

I would open up a bug report if I was you.

[BenW.]

7 minutes ago, Gee_Simpson said:

I would open up a bug report if I was you.

I sent a support ticket earlier in the week and they suggested removing any custom skins which I did - still didn't work though.

[HUNT3R]

19 minutes ago, BenW. said:

I sent a support ticket earlier in the week and they suggested removing any custom skins which I did - still didn't work though.

Best would be to tell them that. Technical issues aren't dealt with directly on the forum anymore.

[blejdek]

Are player instructions broken in terms of pressing? Because I have pressing on extremely urgent (team tactic), yet on a player it says less urgent on pressing option.

[rdbayly]

What kind of garbage logic is powering the AI when it comes to hiring staff? I'm in the Premier League and they try to hire this guy as my fitness coach:

[HUNT3R]

8 minutes ago, blejdek said:

Are player instructions broken in terms of pressing? Because I have pressing on extremely urgent (team tactic), yet on a player it says less urgent on pressing option.

No. Some roles press less urgently than other roles and duties.

[blejdek]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

No. Some roles press less urgently than other roles and duties.

Oh I get it. So the level of pressing depends on the player role I choose ? Does the line of engagement and defense line also influence the level of pressing by a player ?

[d d]

4 hours ago, BenW. said:

Does anyone else's FM revert to Full Screen Mode when loading up the game? I play in Windowed and it's really frustrating when I keep having to change the settings every time I load it up.

I'm on a MacBook Air M1 if it helps.

 Give this a try, work for me.

 

Open STEAM
- From your Library; Right Click on Football Manager 2021
- Click on Properties
- Click on SET LAUNCH OPTIONS…
- Add the following
- -small_screen -windowed
- Click Ok; Start the game again

[BenW.]

1 hour ago, d d said:

 Give this a try, work for me.

 

Open STEAM
- From your Library; Right Click on Football Manager 2021
- Click on Properties
- Click on SET LAUNCH OPTIONS…
- Add the following
- -small_screen -windowed
- Click Ok; Start the game again

 

Tried this, unfortunately doesn't work

[FlorianAlbert9]

One of the biggest lack in the game imho is that FM fails to create a immersive world (a part of the knowledge we user have). 

Then it's a pity that one great step could be made using data the game already has. 

That's is an example. 
In that news they said about the younger that is labelled the next Kubala (that is one of the best player of Barcelona history). 
That's great. 

But to make that appears i have had to declare interest in that younger. And his description is a marginal note in the news.

While if in Hungary would pop-up the next Kubala (or Puskas or Albert etc...) there were more media event, pression on the player etc...

in the game, on the other hand, we end up not knowing anything about the players around us, especially as we progress through the years

Edited February 12, 2021 by FlorianAlbert9

[Federico]

4 ore fa, blejdek ha scritto:

Oh I get it. So the level of pressing depends on the player role I choose ? Does the line of engagement and defense line also influence the level of pressing by a player ?

I'd say LOE and DL rather influence the effectiveness of pressing, but I better let this to be explained by someone more knowledgeable.

[Zoolok42]

13 hours ago, Costanino Hummels said:

I'm going to make an analogy too

Let's imagine we have a nice neighborhood bakery in a small town

The locals buy the bread daily because it is of quality and good, the baker has a very good relationship with the customer

One day that town, thanks to (insert reason here) became touristy

The baker has to sell more loaves and because of that the quality of his bread decreases

The baker is happy to receive his money and to please the new customers, but loyal consumers notice a decrease in the quality of the bread.

Loyal consumers ask him why the bread is worse than before and the baker gets angry and tells them that why do they tell him that, it is bread that can be eaten

Then one day (insert reason here) the town ceases to be touristy and the baker almost runs out of customers and the loyal consumers have forgotten their old trusted baker

End

This analogy doesn't work, FM is literally better every year than the last. It's as if your imaginary baker got better and better at making bread, since he had more customers, and thus had more money to invest in himself and new opportunities opened up for him... Which is, incidentally, what keeps happening with Football Manager.

Yes, there are issues and things could be even better, but that applies to everything in life, especially products that you buy.

[steam just is]

44 minutes ago, Zoolok42 said:

This analogy doesn't work, FM is literally better every year than the last. It's as if your imaginary baker got better and better at making bread, since he had more customers, and thus had more money to invest in himself and new opportunities opened up for him... Which is, incidentally, what keeps happening with Football Manager.

Yes, there are issues and things could be even better, but that applies to everything in life, especially products that you buy.

Nah it’s not literally better every year. Some years they add a few more sesame seeds on the loaf but it’s to hide the fact the dough hasn’t risen in the bread.
I was playing fifa with my son a few weeks back and I said it seems much better this year. He replied by saying ‘of course! A game should be noticeably better year on year’. Really sorry but you can’t say that of FM. 

That doesn’t mean FM isn’t a really good game. It doesn’t mean the developers don’t work incredibly hard on it. It just means that it feels like it’s been treading water for a few years. They don’t have the production scale of other game producers so I’m not angry or shouty. But transfers, tactics (gegenpress etc was a rebrand of previous pressing tactics), training, interactions etc have got stuck. The ME and graphics are not improving rapidly - indeed both seemed to take steps back (shocking in the gaming world) before something of an improvement this year.

I think SI need a break. A fallow year. Give them some thinking time. Just do a data update in November this year. Work on making the ME flow, look brilliant. Make transfers realistic. More intelligent and intuitive interactions. Training creative. Tactics which go far beyond the tried and tested. Otherwise we’re just on a rinse and repeat cycle. It’s not SIs fault this game is so popular. It’s our fault for buying it every year despite knowing it will still irritate.

The bakers need a rest. Source some new flour and yeast. It won’t take much to be the best bread ever again.

 

[zyfon5]

3 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

One of the biggest lack in the game imho is that FM fails to create a immersive world (a part of the knowledge we user have). 

Then it's a pity that one great step could be made using data the game already has. 

That's is an example. 
In that news they said about the younger that is labelled the next Kubala (that is one of the best player of Barcelona history). 
That's great. 

But to make that appears i have had to declare interest in that younger. And his description is a marginal note in the news.

While if in Hungary would pop-up the next Kubala (or Puskas or Albert etc...) there were more media event, pression on the player etc...

in the game, on the other hand, we end up not knowing anything about the players around us, especially as we progress through the years

Every year you will have someone labelled as the next Messi etc so it is not really that much hype especially if he is from some obscure nation like hungary. If you have scouted the player before, sometimes you can see from the player information that the player is described as the next ___ so the information is definitely there if you have done enough scouting. But it is quite misleading as some players that clearly only have potential as an average premier league player are also labelled as the next (insert name of legendary player). Maybe it is realistic in a way?

[forameuss]

 

6 hours ago, steam just is said:

Nah it’s not literally better every year. Some years they add a few more sesame seeds on the loaf but it’s to hide the fact the dough hasn’t risen in the bread.
I was playing fifa with my son a few weeks back and I said it seems much better this year. He replied by saying ‘of course! A game should be noticeably better year on year’. Really sorry but you can’t say that of FM. 

That doesn’t mean FM isn’t a really good game. It doesn’t mean the developers don’t work incredibly hard on it. It just means that it feels like it’s been treading water for a few years. They don’t have the production scale of other game producers so I’m not angry or shouty. But transfers, tactics (gegenpress etc was a rebrand of previous pressing tactics), training, interactions etc have got stuck. The ME and graphics are not improving rapidly - indeed both seemed to take steps back (shocking in the gaming world) before something of an improvement this year.

I think SI need a break. A fallow year. Give them some thinking time. Just do a data update in November this year. Work on making the ME flow, look brilliant. Make transfers realistic. More intelligent and intuitive interactions. Training creative. Tactics which go far beyond the tried and tested. Otherwise we’re just on a rinse and repeat cycle. It’s not SIs fault this game is so popular. It’s our fault for buying it every year despite knowing it will still irritate.

The bakers need a rest. Source some new flour and yeast. It won’t take much to be the best bread ever again.

 

 

There's just...so much wrong with this.

I was playing fifa with my son a few weeks back and I said it seems much better this year. He replied by saying ‘of course! A game should be noticeably better year on year’. Really sorry but you can’t say that of FM.

If you're going to try and seriously argue this point, it's probably not the best course of action to choose a series that has gotten demonstrably worse as a product in the past couple of years.  In pretty much every area, EA have made a concerted effort to make the title worse for the consumer, albeit to make it absolutely tip-top for their profits.  Physics engine continues to be not fit for purpose, match engine is much jankier than FM's, even while being far more simplistic, most game modes utterly neglected, and their flagship one turned into a grindy, awful mobile-esque hellscape full of the absolute worst a gaming "community" has to offer.  It boggles the mind that either of you would think it's gotten better.

I think SI need a break. A fallow year.

Because if there's one thing that boosts creativity, it's zero cashflow into an already tight business.  Not to mention that this "year off" is not going to be the magic bullet that people are desperate to be.  And we can then look forward to the next release and people still talking about how it wasn't worth the wait.  

Edited February 13, 2021 by forameuss

[FlorianAlbert9]

4 ore fa, zyfon5 ha scritto:

Every year you will have someone labelled as the next Messi etc so it is not really that much hype especially if he is from some obscure nation like hungary. If you have scouted the player before, sometimes you can see from the player information that the player is described as the next ___ so the information is definitely there if you have done enough scouting. But it is quite misleading as some players that clearly only have potential as an average premier league player are also labelled as the next (insert name of legendary player). Maybe it is realistic in a way?

I know that you find the info in the player description i said that the data in already in the game. (another story Is that feature is very basic programmed and based on nation legends' description in db and not really linked with Legends' attributes).

But

As yourself said every year we have 'another' messi. And the fact that you know that without be a pro scout, prove my point. 

If you follow sports media even at basic level you will find pages on youngs prospect.

Talking in general in real life even my mother that has never seen a single game of football know about Messi (or Pelé). 

In game, after only 6 years i don't raally know who are the best. I have to check by miself. 

If i have to look for than that person i look for is not so famous.

 

 

 

 

 

[dolph11]

I am a huge fan of FM, have been since the beginning, but to say it gets better every year is disingenuous. A game that gets better every year is a game that reduces the amount of flaws / bugs that it contains upon release; FM is not that game. I bought FM 21 but had zero enjoyment so went back to FM20 due to a long-term save I'd gotten into, even then, I think FM20 is not that good. Some of the players positioning and decision making out of possession is unimaginable. As somebody with a UEFA 'B', albeit from 13 years ago, positioning is a big thing for me. In addition, some of the terrible positioning comes from nowhere and SEEMS contrived in some way. 

I will admit that my problem with the ME might not be seen by others, either through inability or lack of being bothered about truly analyzing it (furthermore, sometimes the players who are guilty still get great ratings or can't be told they made the mistake, really infuriating and lacking major reality), however, there are REAL bugs that affect the game. Now, it's your choice if you decide to enjoy the game despite them, that doesn't make it acceptable that they are there. Of course, consumers will accept an imperfect game but just look at the bugs section! To deny it is either putting your head in the sand or defending the indefensible for reasons of your own. This game is built on analysis and if the stats don't add-up correctly this can have a big knock-on effect, not even to mention the newgen problem; all of this when the season isn't far from being over. Totally unacceptable.

It could be said the game has definitely regressed in certain areas (pitch displays, no stadium view in 2D, the new skin) and has definitely stagnated in others. The ME improved slightly this year which was necessary, still a lot of glaring issues there though. 

I'm not a gamer, so I won't compare as I can't compare. FM is the only game I play as I stopped being part of football many years ago and it's my fix. If you truly believe it gets better year on year you are seriously helping nobody, neither the customers or SI, as the customers won't get the product they deserve as the producers will believe that they're going in the right direction with the way they are going about things at the moment. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by dolph11

[forameuss]

7 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

I am a huge fan of FM, have been since the beginning, but to say it gets better every year is disingenuous. A game that gets better every year is a game that reduces the amount of flaws / bugs that it contains upon release; FM is not that game. I bought FM 21 but had zero enjoyment so went back to FM20 due to a long-term save I'd gotten into, even then, I think FM20 is not that good. Some of the players positioning and decision making out of possession is unimaginable. As somebody with a UEFA 'B', albeit from 13 years ago, positioning is a big thing for me. In addition, some of the terrible positioning comes from nowhere and SEEMS contrived in some way. 

I will admit that my problem with the ME might not be seen by others, either through inability or lack of being bothered about truly analyzing it (furthermore, sometimes the players who are guilty still get great ratings or can't be told they made the mistake, really infuriating and lacking major reality), however, there are REAL bugs that affect the game. Now, it's your choice if you decide to enjoy the game despite them, that doesn't make it acceptable that they are there. Of course, consumers will accept an imperfect game but just look at the bugs section! To deny it is either putting your head in the sand or defending the indefensible for reasons of your own. This game is built on analysis and if the stats don't add-up correctly this can have a big knock-on effect, not even to mention the newgen problem; all of this when the season isn't far from being over. Totally unacceptable.

It could be said the game has definitely regressed in certain areas (pitch displays, no stadium view in 2D, the new skin) and has definitely stagnated in others. The ME improved slightly this year which was necessary, still a lot of glaring issues there though. 

I'm not a gamer, so I won't compare as I can't compare. FM is the only game I play as I stopped being part of football many years ago and it's my fix. If you truly believe it gets better year on year you are seriously helping nobody, neither the customers or SI, as the customers won't get the product they deserve as the producers will believe that they're going in the right direction with the way they are going about things at the moment. 

Do you think that SI employ one of those clap-o-meter things where the biggest amount of applause wins?  Do you think they're going to see people thinking the game has gotten better each year and just shrug and believe there's nothing to do?  Do you honestly believe that SI have ever sent an edition to release believing it was 100% perfect?  

As a whole product, the game has gotten technically better.  Bugs are nothing to do with that, given there has been bugs in every edition, and will be in every future edition.  But it's a subjective thing.  I thought 18 and 19 were soulless husks I just could not get into, but that doesn't mean that technically they weren't an improvement on the previous.  They were.  The game that consistently gets talked about as the best FM era title (12) was riddled with flaws, but was ultimately enjoyable to play.

I'll turn it around on you for a moment.  You talk about who isn't helping, and who you believe are the problem.  But I assume from what you're saying that you buy every year.  You also seem to think the game regresses fairly often.  So why exactly are you buying it every year?  Don't you think that the people "helping nobody" are people like that, who are indirectly validating SI's direction by continuing to bolster their sales figures, rather than those that are actually *gasp* just enjoying the product they bought?  Si have a roadmap, they have a direction they want to go in. If you don't like aspects of that, don't buy the game.  If enough people agree with you, then things might change.  If not enough people do that, then clearly it's a minority view and nothing will.  EIther way, you're personally richer and not doing something you don't enjoy.

[Zoolok42]

I bet that all the people basically accusing SI of being a sellout still get hundreds of hours of fun from the game. I know I sure as hell do, since CM times.

But really, compare every FM with earlier editions, and tell me newer ones aren't better?

[dolph11]

7 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Do you think that SI employ one of those clap-o-meter things where the biggest amount of applause wins? Do you think they're going to see people thinking the game has gotten better each year and just shrug and believe there's nothing to do? Do you honestly believe that SI have ever sent an edition to release believing it was 100% perfect?  

As a whole product, the game has gotten technically better. Bugs are nothing to do with that, given there has been bugs in every edition, and will be in every future edition. But it's a subjective thing. I thought 18 and 19 were soulless husks I just could not get into, but that doesn't mean that technically they weren't an improvement on the previous. They were. The game that consistently gets talked about as the best FM era title (12) was riddled with flaws, but was ultimately enjoyable to play.

I'll turn it around on you for a moment. You talk about who isn't helping, and who you believe are the problem. But I assume from what you're saying that you buy every year. You also seem to think the game regresses fairly often. So why exactly are you buying it every year? Don't you think that the people "helping nobody" are people like that, who are indirectly validating SI's direction by continuing to bolster their sales figures, rather than those that are actually * gasp * just enjoying the product they bought? If they have a roadmap, they have a direction they want to go in. If you don't like aspects of that, don't buy the game. If enough people agree with you, then things might change. If not enough people do that, then clearly it's a minority view and nothing will. EIther way, you '

I think SI have a loyal fanbase who will buy the game no matter what it is like upon release, like myself. There is no rhyme nor reason for it other than I love football and tactics and am not involved in that anymore. I'm not saying I don't enjoy FM, at times I do and at times I don't. An example, I started a new save with Gloucester City last night on FM20 and got promoted in the first season, it was strange, though. I should have been buzzing but the way it transpired was just down-right weird. Nonsensical. Additionally, there is no rival to FM. Around ten years ago they really distanced themselves from any competition and set them themselves apart, credit for that! But it has really improved much in recent years.

I can only speak for myself that I have a pretty chilled life where I live near the beach in a sunny country so buying a game and chilling out and playing on it and seeing its flaws/bugs is of minimal concern. I'm not on here typing with rage or anger, just trying to give a measured view. I cannot fathom how the game was released with so many bugs. Again, you are OK with it but in the main it is not OK. People have reported bugs, some over multiple editions, and they are still there, that is truly mystifying. Are they unable to fix them or are they ignoring them? 

Me not buying the game won't make one iota of difference to SI, they will continue to sell in high numbers due to the addiction the game has on people. I would say 99% of the people who complained this year will buy FM22, they can't help it. I've hardly played FM21 but I'll probably buy it too. This may not help, but one thing is for sure, if everybody who does buy it highlights what is wrong with it they might just listen. 

I enjoy sitting on the beach or in a cafe on a Saturday morning playing FM, it's a pleasure, no because of FM but because of life. Please, don't get my assessment twisted with someone who is raging against the game/SI.

[Costanino Hummels]

1. He disfrutado FM15 desde entonces y puedo decir que FM20 fue un desastre en el ME, pero al menos planteó desafíos. FM21 es el juego más aburrido que he jugado en años. Un buen ME pero una IA desastrosa, malas estadísticas y una interfaz dolorosa.

2. Como consumidor experimentado y viendo lo mismo que sucedió el año pasado, ¿qué esperanza puedo tener cuando en marzo de 2020 dejaron de actualizar y dejaron un ME aburrido y roto donde se marcaron 8/10 goles de cabeza?

3. Si Sigames no tiene la capacidad de desarrollar un juego estable y sin errores todos los años, deje de hacerlo. Busque alternativas. Nuestro dinero es importante para ellos pero más importante para nosotros.

Respecto a la evolución del juego, no olvidemos que todos los años compramos el juego donde hay dos países (más o menos) con los derechos adquiridos (escudos, nombres de clubes y estadios, etc. y el resto se quedan sin derechos) . Básicamente pagamos por una nueva máscara y transferencias.

La evolución de esta saga debería ser mucho mayor conociendo los años que llevan trabajando en ella

Por cierto, parece que les gustó la analogía del pan, gracias amigos

[zyfon5]

1 hour ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

If you follow sports media even at basic level you will find pages on youngs prospect.

If i have to look for than that person i look for is not so famous.

There is a ton of social media stuff in FM if you just pay attention to it. There is also transfer window news coverage for the major transfers. You can also increase the details level so that you would not miss anything up until who wins the best player in the U-19 league in Japan. So there is really no excuse that you miss out on the best players if you pay as much attention to social media in FM like in real life.

Edited February 13, 2021 by zyfon5

[FlorianAlbert9]

2 minuti fa, zyfon5 ha scritto:

There is a ton of social media stuff in FM if you just pay attention to it. There is also transfer window news coverage for the major transfers. You can also increase the details level so that you would not miss anything up until who wins the best player in the U-19 league. So there is really no excuse that you miss out on the best players if you pay as much attention to social media in FM like in real life.

1) no all U19 League have prizes.

2) transfert news are not the point. do you read news about Messi only when he pass in another teams in real life? of course no. 

3) Golden Ball news has the same space than "where is Kisvarda team of 2020?" 

4) real life Italian Serie A example: Cr7 is always on YouTube cover highlights even if he had not a good game. In FM is very very very rare that the news' title have a players name written. 

but:

you again miss the point. 

let me make an example. 

If I have to look for in google "English Quartet band of 60s" for sure then I'm not looking for Beatles. Everybody know them. I don't need to be into the Music Professional world to know Beatles. it's pop-culture. 

 

[steam just is]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

 

 

There's just...so much wrong with this.

I was playing fifa with my son a few weeks back and I said it seems much better this year. He replied by saying ‘of course! A game should be noticeably better year on year’. Really sorry but you can’t say that of FM.

If you're going to try and seriously argue this point, it's probably not the best course of action to choose a series that has gotten demonstrably worse as a product in the past couple of years.  In pretty much every area, EA have made a concerted effort to make the title worse for the consumer, albeit to make it absolutely tip-top for their profits.  Physics engine continues to be not fit for purpose, match engine is much jankier than FM's, even while being far more simplistic, most game modes utterly neglected, and their flagship one turned into a grindy, awful mobile-esque hellscape full of the absolute worst a gaming "community" has to offer.  It boggles the mind that either of you would think it's gotten better.

I think SI need a break. A fallow year.

Because if there's one thing that boosts creativity, it's zero cashflow into an already tight business.  Not to mention that this "year off" is not going to be the magic bullet that people are desperate to be.  And we can then look forward to the next release and people still talking about how it wasn't worth the wait.  

Haha - good line about zero profits! They can still charge us for a data update....it’s not like they haven’t done it before 😳 

sounds like you go on the fifa forums moaning like I do on here. Have to say the gameplay feels better on fifa this year. And don’t even compare the graphics, it’s not fair on SI. I don’t want FM to be FIFA btw. It was just by way of comparison. FIFA has leapt forward ( and destroyed the competition) in much the same way as FM leapt forward 10 years ago and destroyed CM). No coincidence that stagnation comes with monopolisation. I’m sure FIFA will suffer from that soon too.

this chat proves that taste and opinion isn’t homogeneous and that’s a good thing. I also like the fact you’re defending the game, it makes feel it’s still good. There have been improvements this year but, be really honest @forameuss, it’s marginal gains. 

[steam just is]

1 hour ago, forameuss said:

Do you think that SI employ one of those clap-o-meter things where the biggest amount of applause wins?  Do you think they're going to see people thinking the game has gotten better each year and just shrug and believe there's nothing to do?  Do you honestly believe that SI have ever sent an edition to release believing it was 100% perfect?  

As a whole product, the game has gotten technically better.  Bugs are nothing to do with that, given there has been bugs in every edition, and will be in every future edition.  But it's a subjective thing.  I thought 18 and 19 were soulless husks I just could not get into, but that doesn't mean that technically they weren't an improvement on the previous.  They were.  The game that consistently gets talked about as the best FM era title (12) was riddled with flaws, but was ultimately enjoyable to play.

I'll turn it around on you for a moment.  You talk about who isn't helping, and who you believe are the problem.  But I assume from what you're saying that you buy every year.  You also seem to think the game regresses fairly often.  So why exactly are you buying it every year?  Don't you think that the people "helping nobody" are people like that, who are indirectly validating SI's direction by continuing to bolster their sales figures, rather than those that are actually *gasp* just enjoying the product they bought?  Si have a roadmap, they have a direction they want to go in. If you don't like aspects of that, don't buy the game.  If enough people agree with you, then things might change.  If not enough people do that, then clearly it's a minority view and nothing will.  EIther way, you're personally richer and not doing something you don't enjoy.

What’s their roadmap!

[zyfon5]

2 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

1) no all U19 League have prizes.

2) transfert news are not the point. do you read news about Messi only when he pass in another teams in real life? of course no. 

3) Golden Ball news has the same space than "where is Kisvarda team of 2020?" 

4) real life Italian Serie A example: Cr7 is always on YouTube cover highlights even if he had not a good game. In FM is very very very rare that the news' title have a players name written. 

but:

you again miss the point. 

let me make an example. 

If I have to look for in google "English Quartet band of 60s" for sure then I'm not looking for Beatles. Everybody know them. I don't need to be into the Music Professional world to know Beatles. it's pop-culture. 

 

1) Most leagues have prizes and in FM you can adjust the detail level so that you will receive news for any competition you are interested in.

2) In FM you can adjust the details level of the social media or follow a certain player. If in real life I do not pay any attention to any La Liga news I will know very little about the matches Messi plays or how many goals he scored. I will only know he won the top goalscorer of La Liga or the Ballon D or.

3) There are news title with players name written. Player of the week, player of the month, stats analysis, the summary in the league after every game week, transfer rumours before a transfer window etc. If you want to receive more information you can follow certain competitions and adjust your details level to extensive.

4) But then again you are not born with knowledge with the Beatles don't you? Eventually you start to look at something pop music related and then you learn about the Beatles. Which is the same in FM. You want to know who are the best young players in Ligue 1? Then you follow Ligue 1 related news and start from there.

[zyfon5]

24 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

25 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

In FM is very very very rare that the news' title have a players name written. 

 

LOL. Just look at how many players names are mentioned here. And I play on minimal detail level btw. Sure in FM you do not have youtube and recommendation algorithms but I do not see how different is this social media and websites thing different to real life.