Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

[XaW]

23 minutes ago, Federico said:

So FM is better than reality. Is this what you're saying? It's not my intention to have a go against you but from my point of view you're flipping the problem upside-down by pointing that FM does better than reality does. This opens a chest full of problems according to me, philosophically speaking.

Bahh I wouldn't mention italian clubs. We're rubbish and I would sound biased. Let's focus on german and spanish teams, it seems to me they achievied "something" lately.

That's your point of view, and we would have a nice chat at the pub in front of a couple of stouts about it, but we're discussing here in a forum about a software that should reproduce, early seasons at least, what happens IRL, more or less.

I can't see money giving any advantage IRL, at least in continental competitions. If that was the case, City would have collected multiple continental silverware, but they didn't apparently. Same applies to PSG. Fortunately things are slightly different.

I'm sorry but this whole sentence is wrong in whatever the point you read it from. Money apart, you think that FM reflects how english clubs should perform realistically. So we're down the field of assumptions, which is the opposite of what FM claimed to be in these years, the most realistic simulation on the market. You say EPL clubs are underachieving IRL. Alright, but according to what? The pitch is the only thing that speaks the truth, and the pitch says a club achieve what it deserves to achieve, nothing less, nothing more. And FM should reproduce what is reflected by real football as its best.

For me, this is not its best. And I don't think everything is down to SI, but I'd rather begin from how EPL players/clubs are assessed.

 

I mean, I don't think we are in much disagreement, I also think English teams do too well in the game, I just think we disagree about the reason. I think it's down to the game AI being "better" at using the money to get better. What do you think? That English players are too highly rated? If so, why do English teams keep winning futher down the line when most real players have retired?

[rdbayly]

If not signing players over the age of 29 is a non-negotiable part of my club's culture, why are the majority of players recommended to me in the 'recruitment meeting' over 35?

The person that laid down this law is literally sat in the room with us as the DOF / Chief Scout reels off suggestions that are the complete antithesis of the club. Not a word said. Nothing. Shame that this disconnect from the game world exists here.

The recruitment meeting was a nice idea, but like many new features, it's just a place holder until something is meaningfully developed. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by rdbayly

[Federico]

25 minuti fa, XaW ha scritto:

I mean, I don't think we are in much disagreement, I also think English teams do too well in the game, I just think we disagree about the reason. I think it's down to the game AI being "better" at using the money to get better. What do you think? That English players are too highly rated? If so, why do English teams keep winning futher down the line when most real players have retired?

As stated above, I think EPL (but i'd even go deeper) players and clubs (and all that is around the club, like income, youth turnover, market, reputation and so on) need to be looked at. I think even clubs from the lower tiers have easy access to cash cabability, and this of course produce a lot of benefits on cascade. From an outer point of view, it's like if UK is part of a parallel universe where nobody goes bankrupt and even Socketberry United (invented one) will benefit of a sugar daddy at some point.

I mean I read someone in season 2 playing West Ham with Messi, Asensio, Gnabry.... please....

[XaW]

11 minutes ago, Federico said:

As stated above, I think EPL (but i'd even go deeper) players and clubs (and all that is around the club, like income, youth turnover, market, reputation and so on) need to be looked at. I think even clubs from the lower tiers have easy access to cash cabability, and this of course produce a lot of benefits on cascade. From an outer point of view, it's like if UK is part of a parallel universe where nobody goes bankrupt and even Socketberry United (invented one) will benefit of a sugar daddy at some point. I mean I read someone in season 2 playing West Ham with Messi, Asensio, Gnabry.... c'mon....

Yes and no. I think England in general have a higher level of teams among the second best teams. I rate teams like Everton, Southampton, Aston Villa, etc higher than teams expected to finish behind the "best" teams in other leagues.

Comparing 6th, 7th and 8th place in the various leagues last season:

6th - Tottenhan, Real Sociedad, Hoffenheim, Milan
7th - Wolverhampton, Granada, Wolfsburg, Napoli
8th - Arsenal, Getafe, Freiburg, Sassulo

So for me, the English leagues are "better" than the others on that point and those teams should be rated higher than the ones in other leagues.

And the money from the PL are very high and most teams rake in around £100m per season from TV right alone, so there is a whole lot of money going around there a the top.

And I've played a lot in England, and I struggle with finances unless I manage to get up into the Premier League, lower down it's hard to keep the money coming in!

That said, if someone got Messi, Asensio and Gnabry to West Ham for season 2, I would call shenanigans! If not, I'd report it as a bug, because that is clearly proof of something wrong.

 

[LucasBR]

So I'm trying to sell a player and hes price tag is 62,5M in brazilian real, I'm asking for 55M and I keep receiving offers like 7,5M, 10M... What kind of nonsense is that?

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

Still seeing some very disappointing ratings for players, especially my defensive midfielders. 

I think my honest feedback with this game having played it since the beta and closely monitoring threads here would be to scale back your ambitions for FM22. All the things you tried to add in this game only offered minor QOL improvements at best and major gameplay flaws at worst. Basic things like statistics, player ratings, passing networks, analyst reports, youth intakes, and more have all ended up suffering at the hands of change. It’s unfortunate that the long term viability of saves has been completely compromised by all of these issues and none of that has changed since the beta.

 

im sorry my feedback isn’t the blind praise of xG or the match engine, but I think some honesty from customer to business is necessary here. 

[Zoolok42]

1 hour ago, LucasBR said:

So I'm trying to sell a player and hes price tag is 62,5M in brazilian real, I'm asking for 55M and I keep receiving offers like 7,5M, 10M... What kind of nonsense is that?

This happens a lot, I can't manage to sell anyone for a normal price, whether I want to sell them or don't want to at all. Some say it's a part of AI negotiating with you - if you don't want to sell a player and they want to buy him, the AI team just makes any kind of offer to unsettle the player, and in the other case, when you do want to sell someone and offer them to AI clubs, they start lowballing you since somehow you, as a seller, are now in a weaker position suddenly. The first situation never happened (I've never had a player unsettled because I rejected a low-value offer for them, but I accept it could happen), and the second one is just nonsense. I mean, you go to a car salesman and offer 5 quid for a Lamborghini because, hey, the seller wants to get rid of the car, so that somehow makes his position weaker when negotiating a price.

Basically, the game treats players you want to sell as damaged goods somehow, but I've yet to see the same when trying to buy someone on a transfer list - the AI club sets the asking price, but when I offer that amount, they negotiate for more. I mean come on.

[iownyou]

Has anyone found that there are a staggering amount of transfers in the Premier League?

Im three seasons in and I’m finding most teams have entirely new squads. 

[3maldini3]

Was there anything form SI about fixing that? 

[anindyarajan19]

I hope that in the next update, SI make players with high technical and mental attributes stand out more. Right now, there doesn't seem to be a difference, at least a visual one, between players who are good on the ball and those who aren't. 

The play in the final third is also pretty frustrating, with constant blocked shots and crosses. The fluid, crisp one-touch football that I witnessed in the Beta, has been replaced with drab drawn out passing sequences that lead nowhere. My players simply can't operate in tight spaces like they should be able to, despite exceptional technical and mental attributes. My backline seems to hoof the ball out to my 5' 7" F9 to compete in the air with and can barely withstand high pressure.

I really hope SI remedies this since the ME is still far better than 20 or 19 and I really want to like this game. 

[mikcheck]

This is a lovely ball

[CaptCanuck]

17 hours ago, turgi said:

Was there anything form SI about fixing that? 

No. I think no is the correct answer:

For me it is the most annoying/impactful bug right now - can mitigate ME behaviour with tactic tweaks, but when you cannot investigate the data accurate;y it makes mitigation difficult.

Edited January 18, 2021 by CaptCanuck

[Novem9]

38 минут назад, mikcheck сказал:

This is a lovely ball

 

semi-pro league, I like this ME, so beautiful

 

[Novem9]

9 часов назад, anindyarajan19 сказал:

I hope that in the next update, SI make players with high technical and mental attributes stand out more. Right now, there doesn't seem to be a difference, at least a visual one, between players who are good on the ball and those who aren't. 

 

I feel a huge difference when my opposite team from lower league/country. In fact I can use any tactic because my players better and losing is almost impossible. 

I played by big teams, teams from second and third divisions and for now I play in semipro team. And I see a real difference in every case. My players in low teams make mistakes (including technical) which just no happen in top level at all, etc.

Dont sure which kind of difference you want to see

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

1 hour ago, CaptCanuck said:

No. I think no is the correct answer:

For me it is the most annoying/impactful bug right now - can mitigate ME behaviour with tactic tweaks, but when you cannot investigate the data accurate;y it makes mitigation difficult.

I hate it because xG is not even a useful statistic, especially at the expense of everything else and how it’s been incorporated. I’m sorry, but shot maps have been in the analyst report section for years, you can figure out conversion rates and number of shots on your own. All they have done is completely ruined the stats tracking at the expense of including xG. It isn’t as if the analysts give you any meaningful info (“our data shows they are average in attack and poor in defense”) anyhow. xG as it has been implemented in the game provides nothing more than a friendly and quick visual of info we already could figure out on our own. It really frustrates me how obvious these flaws were within a few hours of playing the beta, yet here we are nearly in February with passing networks, heat maps, player ratings, statistical discrepancies, and player count issues still prominent issues in the game. It’s a terrible feeling knowing the last patch is around the corner with no end to these issues in sight. 

[3maldini3]

2 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

No. I think no is the correct answer:

For me it is the most annoying/impactful bug right now - can mitigate ME behaviour with tactic tweaks, but when you cannot investigate the data accurate;y it makes mitigation difficult.

Exactly! How am I meant to fix tactical issues? watch full games?

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

33 minutes ago, turgi said:

How am I meant to fix tactical issues? watch full games?

By looking at whether or not your team lives up to xG or not! Forget build up play, forget who makes the most passes, forget key passes, forget key tackles, all that matters are those three digits and whether you score more or less goals than them! 

[iownyou]

Man, the fixture scheduling in this is absolutely horrendous 

World Cup year is crazy. 

[CaptCanuck]

Has anyone else noticed your very recent former players showing up against you in European competitions?

In the group stages of the Europa League we had Olympiakos, who we sold Duffy to in the offseason, then in the 2nd Knockout Rd (we had a 1st rnd bye) we draw Shaktar who we sold Ryan to in the offseason, and now we are through to the QF and drew Milan, who we sold Bissouma to in the same offseason.

Coincidence or do they actually have a couple lines of code that do a search for former players and then deliberately match you up?

[rp1966]

3 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

 

Coincidence or do they actually have a couple lines of code that do a search for former players and then deliberately match you up?

Don't get me started on what I think they're doing in what should be random cup draws ...

 

[stppnmd]

On 18/01/2021 at 03:14, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

Still seeing some very disappointing ratings for players, especially my defensive midfielders. 

I think my honest feedback with this game having played it since the beta and closely monitoring threads here would be to scale back your ambitions for FM22. All the things you tried to add in this game only offered minor QOL improvements at best and major gameplay flaws at worst. Basic things like statistics, player ratings, passing networks, analyst reports, youth intakes, and more have all ended up suffering at the hands of change. It’s unfortunate that the long term viability of saves has been completely compromised by all of these issues and none of that has changed since the beta.

 

im sorry my feedback isn’t the blind praise of xG or the match engine, but I think some honesty from customer to business is necessary here. 

yeah... i've read good reviews, bought the game and I feel a bit robbed

[RVP32]

I really, really, really hope they fix the ways opposing team approach you if you play in the big leagues and are a club of respectable reputation.

The difference that I see here from screenshots and clips from lower rep clubs on lower levels and big level clubs on big levels is night and day and almost don't feel like the same match engine at all and I think it's really frustrating that you need to play on a specific level to be able to fully enjoy the match engine.

[dunk105]

On 18/01/2021 at 09:48, anindyarajan19 said:

I hope that in the next update, SI make players with high technical and mental attributes stand out more. Right now, there doesn't seem to be a difference, at least a visual one, between players who are good on the ball and those who aren't. 

The play in the final third is also pretty frustrating, with constant blocked shots and crosses. The fluid, crisp one-touch football that I witnessed in the Beta, has been replaced with drab drawn out passing sequences that lead nowhere. My players simply can't operate in tight spaces like they should be able to, despite exceptional technical and mental attributes. My backline seems to hoof the ball out to my 5' 7" F9 to compete in the air with and can barely withstand high pressure.

I really hope SI remedies this since the ME is still far better than 20 or 19 and I really want to like this game. 

Definitely- also how often does a player get into a promising position (normally wide) and you think "Ah nice first time pass / cross" and they dither and allow themselves to be closed down.

[dunk105]

3 minutes ago, RVP32 said:

I really, really, really hope they fix the ways opposing team approach you if you play in the big leagues and are a club of respectable reputation.

The difference that I see here from screenshots and clips from lower rep clubs on lower levels and big level clubs on big levels is night and day and almost don't feel like the same match engine at all and I think it's really frustrating that you need to play on a specific level to be able to fully enjoy the match engine.

Agree- its like FM20, every single team parks 9 men behind the ball, and with wide play being useless its a chore to break teams down. Teams don't even open up when they go behind. Before anyone mentions tactics, I'm not complaining because I am losing, just because its tedious:

[glenjamin]

Lads what is with the inability to score penalties in this game? I've scored 50% of my penalties. Even Brentford who are top of the league have only scored 50% of there's too. 

I'm still seeing the same old crap in games too: goalkeepers with poor CA turning into Buffon when they play me, defenders with poor pace managing to recover and get a block or tackle in against my attacker who has gotten away from them, countless blocks from shots or crosses, players missing sitters when only a couple of yards from goal, players suddenly turning their back to goal when placed in a scoring opportunity and electing for the pass rather than the easy shot, players being caught offside when they have full view of the offside line. 

[Heywood JaBlowme]

Will there ever be changes to players thinking they deserve a new contract-when they're less than 1 year into their current deal? It's beyond asinine. 

[mikcheck]

42 minutos atrás, glenjamin disse:

Lads what is with the inability to score penalties in this game? I've scored 50% of my penalties. Even Brentford who are top of the league have only scored 50% of there's too. 

I'm yet to see that inability that people talk. My penalty taker scored 9 in 11 and the other one  scored 4 in 4. 

Are you sure you're choosing the right player?

Edited January 19, 2021 by mikcheck

[Svenc]

20 hours ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

xG as it has been implemented in the game provides nothing more than a friendly and quick visual of info we already could figure out on our own.

999 out of 1000 FM'ers were absolutely terrible at doing just that. (And sorry for the repeat, but they had ample role models all over the media).

Edited January 19, 2021 by Svenc

[mp_87]

I took a few weeks off due to annoyance at the game, but lockdown and the new patch led me to give it another chance. Unfortunately, nothing has changed.

 

I'm not going to be your average FM player. I watch matches in full and am most interested in the tactical perspective, and like to play what you would call an ultra possession style of play. Ultra methodical and patient and absolute domination of the ball with short passes, and keeping the ball centrally as the 1st, 2nd, and 333333rd option/mindset. And I don't evaluate the game on nice moves and goals sporadically, My criteria is the 99% that makes up the rest and if it represents a realistic, or at least fairly accurate, 90 minutes of real life football.

But playing this way over the last few editions is now just impossible. I'm sure loads of forummers can put up clips of the random times the ME does put a nice move together for a goal, and keeps those who play on minimal highlights happy and convinced there is nothing wrong, but the rest of the time the football, the behaviours, and the tendencies, are nonsense and often wildly unrealistic.

 

I've said it all before, but once again, if you wanted to sum it up the game is far too frenetic in recent editions and like it suffers from ADHD and just cant help forcing the play with every other pass. Short patient passing, recycling possession, going backwards, etc, rarely happens, most passes are random infuriating balls out to the opposite wide man. Doesn't matter how many passing options around them, doesn't matter if that wide player is open, BOOM! it's going across the pitch. And don't even get me started on the absolutely bizarre backwards diagonals - over the heads of most of your team - to the fullback that is your furthest team mate away that get played, often as an outball under pressure, that have been in the last couple of editions of the game.

Then there is wide play itself. It needs a total rethink. Basically every wide role now just runs, and crosses. It can't be stopped. It's just rinse and repeat arcade style. Wide midfield or defender. They just get the ball and charge forward. It doesn't matter about instruction or role it's like it is hardcoded. There are concepts now, especially with the likes of juego de posicion for the wide players to stay high and wide but not actually that involved, they're just creating space for others in the centre, recycle the ball a bit and join in with simple play, and waiting to time a run into the box as a poacher - think David Villa, think Raheem Sterling, and so on. This is a totally alien concept to FM, a) if you want a player to stand that high it's got to be down to an aggressive attack mentality and so automatic run/cross spam, and b) if you did have a player standing out there, it would just get launched to them hoof ball style.

 

For all of this I have extensively tested and gamed it now to extremes and can safely say you cant avoid it. For the possession it doesn't matter about role, mentality, instructions, tempo, attributes, Traits, tactical fluidity, and whatever you can think of. You still see the same patterns of play no matter what you do. As for the wide play and it's one dimensional nonsense, when you still see defend duty fullbacks charging down the flank, even with 'dribble less' and traits 'Runs with ball rarely' and 'stays back at all times' you just accept it is time to give up and you are fighting a fight you cannot win.

 

Go back five years say, and though the game was simpler and less evolved in some ways at least this style of play was eminently possible. Players kept position and to instruction, would turn out and recycle the ball, and look to pass it around rather than so many positions now just charging forward or forcing a pass. Pretty astounding that several editions later it has regressed so badly. I'm not asking for it to be easy, with the introduction/evolution of pressing and LOE for example it should be harder to play passing football, but possession play and choices and patterns have completely gone to pot, in my opinion.

And this isn't even written as a reaction to losing. Far from it. I'm still winning the vast vast majority of games, seeing some nice moves and goals on occasion, dominating with 70% + possession, and on paper ticking every box. But watching a full match I just see mostly unrealistic nonsense and it ruins any immersion and enjoyment I might get I'm afraid.

 

I could then start on the general annoyances such as attempted crosses being hammered against defenders legs on repeat, headers skewing off in every direction but the logical one, players chasing and running the ball over the touchline (even if it's going out for their throw/corner), specific man marking instructions not working, set piece instructions being limited and often not working, and so on... But I'll leave it there.

A shame because I think the rest of the game is quite impressive, but it's let down by its most important part.

End of essay.

Edited January 19, 2021 by mp_87

[akm.91]

On 18/01/2021 at 00:11, iownyou said:

Has anyone found that there are a staggering amount of transfers in the Premier League?

Im three seasons in and I’m finding most teams have entirely new squads. 

AI squad building has been unrealistic for as long as I can remember in this franchise. Wayyyyyy too many transfers, and way too many unnecessary transfers for players squads already have positions covered in. It’s the same year after year, so at this point I genuinely don’t believe they have a long term AI squad building fix...

[Nick_CB]

Is the problem with canceling the scout task a recognized bug?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Nick_CB

[Zoolok42]

14 hours ago, mp_87 said:

I took a few weeks off due to annoyance at the game, but lockdown and the new patch led me to give it another chance. Unfortunately, nothing has changed.

 

I'm not going to be your average FM player. I watch matches in full and am most interested in the tactical perspective, and like to play what you would call an ultra possession style of play. Ultra methodical and patient and absolute domination of the ball with short passes, and keeping the ball centrally as the 1st, 2nd, and 333333rd option/mindset. And I don't evaluate the game on nice moves and goals sporadically, My criteria is the 99% that makes up the rest and if it represents a realistic, or at least fairly accurate, 90 minutes of real life football.

But playing this way over the last few editions is now just impossible. I'm sure loads of forummers can put up clips of the random times the ME does put a nice move together for a goal, and keeps those who play on minimal highlights happy and convinced there is nothing wrong, but the rest of the time the football, the behaviours, and the tendencies, are nonsense and often wildly unrealistic.

 

I've said it all before, but once again, if you wanted to sum it up the game is far too frenetic in recent editions and like it suffers from ADHD and just cant help forcing the play with every other pass. Short patient passing, recycling possession, going backwards, etc, rarely happens, most passes are random infuriating balls out to the opposite wide man. Doesn't matter how many passing options around them, doesn't matter if that wide player is open, BOOM! it's going across the pitch. And don't even get me started on the absolutely bizarre backwards diagonals - over the heads of most of your team - to the fullback that is your furthest team mate away that get played, often as an outball under pressure, that have been in the last couple of editions of the game.

Then there is wide play itself. It needs a total rethink. Basically every wide role now just runs, and crosses. It can't be stopped. It's just rinse and repeat arcade style. Wide midfield or defender. They just get the ball and charge forward. It doesn't matter about instruction or role it's like it is hardcoded. There are concepts now, especially with the likes of juego de posicion for the wide players to stay high and wide but not actually that involved, they're just creating space for others in the centre, recycle the ball a bit and join in with simple play, and waiting to time a run into the box as a poacher - think David Villa, think Raheem Sterling, and so on. This is a totally alien concept to FM, a) if you want a player to stand that high it's got to be down to an aggressive attack mentality and so automatic run/cross spam, and b) if you did have a player standing out there, it would just get launched to them hoof ball style.

 

For all of this I have extensively tested and gamed it now to extremes and can safely say you cant avoid it. For the possession it doesn't matter about role, mentality, instructions, tempo, attributes, Traits, tactical fluidity, and whatever you can think of. You still see the same patterns of play no matter what you do. As for the wide play and it's one dimensional nonsense, when you still see defend duty fullbacks charging down the flank, even with 'dribble less' and traits 'Runs with ball rarely' and 'stays back at all times' you just accept it is time to give up and you are fighting a fight you cannot win.

 

Go back five years say, and though the game was simpler and less evolved in some ways at least this style of play was eminently possible. Players kept position and to instruction, would turn out and recycle the ball, and look to pass it around rather than so many positions now just charging forward or forcing a pass. Pretty astounding that several editions later it has regressed so badly. I'm not asking for it to be easy, with the introduction/evolution of pressing and LOE for example it should be harder to play passing football, but possession play and choices and patterns have completely gone to pot, in my opinion.

And this isn't even written as a reaction to losing. Far from it. I'm still winning the vast vast majority of games, seeing some nice moves and goals on occasion, dominating with 70% + possession, and on paper ticking every box. But watching a full match I just see mostly unrealistic nonsense and it ruins any immersion and enjoyment I might get I'm afraid.

 

I could then start on the general annoyances such as attempted crosses being hammered against defenders legs on repeat, headers skewing off in every direction but the logical one, players chasing and running the ball over the touchline (even if it's going out for their throw/corner), specific man marking instructions not working, set piece instructions being limited and often not working, and so on... But I'll leave it there.

A shame because I think the rest of the game is quite impressive, but it's let down by its most important part.

End of essay.

I think your playstyle is on the extreme, and the game is not designed with that in mind. There are issues (players running after the ball over the touchline is especially annoying), but, to me, not on the scale you describe here. I think it also comes down a lot to your expectations. Player instructions, for instance, are not on/off. Stay back at all times... doesn't mean that that man will literally stay back at all times. They have a personality and decisions of their own, just like in real life, and when they think it's maaaybe better to do something else, they will do it. Or they will simply forget the instruction and do the opposite. This to me is perfectly realistic, having them blindly and literally following instructions (like you seem to expect) is not. They are supposed to be humans, not robots.

All the other things come down to what you think football should be played like. As I've said, you seem to be (by your own admission even) on the extreme side of things, so I find your views and expectations about football also extreme and not what I have in mind when I think about football. There does seem to be a lot blocked crosses, I agree on that, which sometimes results in a lot of corners, but it could be due to both of us doing something on the extreme, which the game then handles like this. I'm not saying it's your tactics, I'm saying the game isn't designed to be able to handle your tactics 

[mp_87]

1 hour ago, Zoolok42 said:

I think your playstyle is on the extreme, and the game is not designed with that in mind. There are issues (players running after the ball over the touchline is especially annoying), but, to me, not on the scale you describe here. I think it also comes down a lot to your expectations. Player instructions, for instance, are not on/off. Stay back at all times... doesn't mean that that man will literally stay back at all times. They have a personality and decisions of their own, just like in real life, and when they think it's maaaybe better to do something else, they will do it. Or they will simply forget the instruction and do the opposite. This to me is perfectly realistic, having them blindly and literally following instructions (like you seem to expect) is not. They are supposed to be humans, not robots.

All the other things come down to what you think football should be played like. As I've said, you seem to be (by your own admission even) on the extreme side of things, so I find your views and expectations about football also extreme and not what I have in mind when I think about football. There does seem to be a lot blocked crosses, I agree on that, which sometimes results in a lot of corners, but it could be due to both of us doing something on the extreme, which the game then handles like this. I'm not saying it's your tactics, I'm saying the game isn't designed to be able to handle your tactics 

No but combining TI, PI, Traits, Attributes such as Teamwork, Decision Making etc. the vast majority of times they should follow instruction, and always used to. As I said, I have tested and gamed this to the extreme - When I see for the umpteenth time a fullback on defend duty, a defensive team mentality, be more disciplined TI, restrictive PI's, the Traits I mentioned, and fully fluid with the tactic charging forward with the ball so we get more run/cross spam you realise you may as well not bother, it's a futile effort.

My play style might be towards the extreme side of thing but if I don't want aggressive wide play it should be possible. Hardcoded default behaviour whatever the role/instruction means it is not.

 

Then there is the patterns of possession. I don't know what has happened in the last couple of years but the game is now non-stop with sweeping balls out to the flanks or players trying a killer action. Often it just goes coast to coast. Sent out to the left flank, if you're lucky and the wideman doesn't charge to the line with run/cross spam and actually recycles it back inside, a couple of passes later it's getting lofted out back to the right flank. Even if the man out there has a defender right up his backside. And as previously mentioned, then there are the dreaded backward diagonals..... 

If no one is seeing that constantly all match, especially if they watch on more than minimal highlights, then I don't know what they're watching or they simply don't care. Sporadically you do get nice passages of play that slice the opposition apart and probably keep 99% of FM'ers happy (especially if they're just watching the key moments) but between those fleeting moments for me the 90 minutes of football leaves a lot to be desired. I might be asking too much, but no way is what is presented - especially in terms of stable patterns of possession - close to being realistic and has taken huge steps backwards compared to previous editions.

Edited January 20, 2021 by mp_87

[Norfair]

I haven't bought FM21 for two reasons; I'm having an epic FM20 save, 40 seasons long and still going, and also because of reading about so many game-breaking bugs. I have one question though. What is player decline like? Same model as previous iterations? Do players still start to lose their physical attributes at 32, pick up speed at 33 and freefall at 34+ ? This is the biggest issue for me of all and if they haven't improved it I don't see a reason to buy FM21 at all.

[Katsuo10]

At the end of the day, rating is still broken. And we are in January.

[steam just is]

17 hours ago, mp_87 said:

I took a few weeks off due to annoyance at the game, but lockdown and the new patch led me to give it another chance. Unfortunately, nothing has changed.

 

I'm not going to be your average FM player. I watch matches in full and am most interested in the tactical perspective, and like to play what you would call an ultra possession style of play. Ultra methodical and patient and absolute domination of the ball with short passes, and keeping the ball centrally as the 1st, 2nd, and 333333rd option/mindset. And I don't evaluate the game on nice moves and goals sporadically, My criteria is the 99% that makes up the rest and if it represents a realistic, or at least fairly accurate, 90 minutes of real life football.

But playing this way over the last few editions is now just impossible. I'm sure loads of forummers can put up clips of the random times the ME does put a nice move together for a goal, and keeps those who play on minimal highlights happy and convinced there is nothing wrong, but the rest of the time the football, the behaviours, and the tendencies, are nonsense and often wildly unrealistic.

 

I've said it all before, but once again, if you wanted to sum it up the game is far too frenetic in recent editions and like it suffers from ADHD and just cant help forcing the play with every other pass. Short patient passing, recycling possession, going backwards, etc, rarely happens, most passes are random infuriating balls out to the opposite wide man. Doesn't matter how many passing options around them, doesn't matter if that wide player is open, BOOM! it's going across the pitch. And don't even get me started on the absolutely bizarre backwards diagonals - over the heads of most of your team - to the fullback that is your furthest team mate away that get played, often as an outball under pressure, that have been in the last couple of editions of the game.

Then there is wide play itself. It needs a total rethink. Basically every wide role now just runs, and crosses. It can't be stopped. It's just rinse and repeat arcade style. Wide midfield or defender. They just get the ball and charge forward. It doesn't matter about instruction or role it's like it is hardcoded. There are concepts now, especially with the likes of juego de posicion for the wide players to stay high and wide but not actually that involved, they're just creating space for others in the centre, recycle the ball a bit and join in with simple play, and waiting to time a run into the box as a poacher - think David Villa, think Raheem Sterling, and so on. This is a totally alien concept to FM, a) if you want a player to stand that high it's got to be down to an aggressive attack mentality and so automatic run/cross spam, and b) if you did have a player standing out there, it would just get launched to them hoof ball style.

 

For all of this I have extensively tested and gamed it now to extremes and can safely say you cant avoid it. For the possession it doesn't matter about role, mentality, instructions, tempo, attributes, Traits, tactical fluidity, and whatever you can think of. You still see the same patterns of play no matter what you do. As for the wide play and it's one dimensional nonsense, when you still see defend duty fullbacks charging down the flank, even with 'dribble less' and traits 'Runs with ball rarely' and 'stays back at all times' you just accept it is time to give up and you are fighting a fight you cannot win.

 

Go back five years say, and though the game was simpler and less evolved in some ways at least this style of play was eminently possible. Players kept position and to instruction, would turn out and recycle the ball, and look to pass it around rather than so many positions now just charging forward or forcing a pass. Pretty astounding that several editions later it has regressed so badly. I'm not asking for it to be easy, with the introduction/evolution of pressing and LOE for example it should be harder to play passing football, but possession play and choices and patterns have completely gone to pot, in my opinion.

And this isn't even written as a reaction to losing. Far from it. I'm still winning the vast vast majority of games, seeing some nice moves and goals on occasion, dominating with 70% + possession, and on paper ticking every box. But watching a full match I just see mostly unrealistic nonsense and it ruins any immersion and enjoyment I might get I'm afraid.

 

I could then start on the general annoyances such as attempted crosses being hammered against defenders legs on repeat, headers skewing off in every direction but the logical one, players chasing and running the ball over the touchline (even if it's going out for their throw/corner), specific man marking instructions not working, set piece instructions being limited and often not working, and so on... But I'll leave it there.

A shame because I think the rest of the game is quite impressive, but it's let down by its most important part.

End of essay.

Think you make some great points here. Ingenuity and invention are at a premium. Individuality has disappeared. You can have Kevin de bryune or ndidi as CM and they will both play the same ball out to the wing. That’s really not good. More concerningly is, like you say, it seems to have gone backwards after a high watermark a few years ago. Why is a computer game regressing when others stride forwards? Even this year, and I play FMT on my iPad Pro, the updates seems to have diluted the quality of the match. Why?

the match should be the pinnacle, at the moment it’s repetitive and not evolving.

 

[rp1966]

14 minutes ago, steam just is said:

Think you make some great points here. Ingenuity and invention are at a premium. Individuality has disappeared.

 

I think there has been a strong element of that ever since roles came along. However, I think it has improved.  This year, more than any recently, I am seeing players' attributes making a noticeable difference to how a tactic plays. To give an example from my current save - I have a good left winger who is my top player for assists, but he rarely scores anything. Due to injuries I've had to move an attacking midfielder who can also  play out wide into that role and he is less likely to release the ball and has chipped in with some goals. The role is the same, but it is played differently depending on the player.

I'm sure there is still scope for roles to be less of a straightjacket, but attributes definitely seem to be differentiating players enough to give them a personality.  Maybe it's a bit different when you have the real player in mind. In my case I am dealing with newgens, so I have no preconceptions about how they should be playing.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by rp1966

[Marko1989]

2 hours ago, Norfair said:

I haven't bought FM21 for two reasons; I'm having an epic FM20 save, 40 seasons long and still going, and also because of reading about so many game-breaking bugs. I have one question though. What is player decline like? Same model as previous iterations? Do players still start to lose their physical attributes at 32, pick up speed at 33 and freefall at 34+ ? This is the biggest issue for me of all and if they haven't improved it I don't see a reason to buy FM21 at all.

In my save, Messi had his Acceleration drop from 17 to 13 in one year. During that year, he had just one injury, 5 days long.

But in next FM, they will give him 17 for acceleration again haha.


 

[GOODNAME]

I just witnessed right now bug in the ME

I scored a goal in the 75th mintues and the opposition team just didnt start the match, the 2 players just stood in the center of the pitch and didnt pass the ball from the start 

[blejdek]

Nice game, ONLY 98 corners in 4 matches, 90 came from idiot wide players who didnt cross when they were alone, better wait for opponent players coming to block. 

[Norfair]

49 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

In my save, Messi had his Acceleration drop from 17 to 13 in one year. During that year, he had just one injury, 5 days long.

But in next FM, they will give him 17 for acceleration again haha.


 

Thanks, that tells me all I need to know  I can't believe they're not trying to fix this.

[ottey_swe]

The game still refuses to remember that I put it in windowed mode the last time I played.. MacOS Big Sur 1.1

[ViG1980]

Man, I rally hope they fix the massive drop-off after 30, newgen issues and player ratings issues. I have bought every single FM since the very FIRST CM back in 1992 I think and I always buy by Christmas.

I still assume I will buy this one but it seems like there are too many things that are game-breaking at the moment. A true shame if the match engine is the best one yet!

[duesouth]

13 minutes ago, ViG1980 said:

Man, I rally hope they fix the massive drop-off after 30, newgen issues and player ratings issues. I have bought every single FM since the very FIRST CM back in 1992 I think and I always buy by Christmas.

I still assume I will buy this one but it seems like there are too many things that are game-breaking at the moment. A true shame if the match engine is the best one yet!

Always very mixed feedback on here, give the demo a try and see what you think - you might love it, you might not!  It seems some people are coping with the bugs more than others, but I can't get going on a long term save...  The thing still feels like a beta to me.

[ViG1980]

35 minutes ago, duesouth said:

Always very mixed feedback on here, give the demo a try and see what you think - you might love it, you might not!  It seems some people are coping with the bugs more than others, but I can't get going on a long term save...  The thing still feels like a beta to me.

I'm going to wait until the next patch and see what it fixes. If it fixes the ratings, I'll probably put on some of the mods to help newgens. I don't expect the 30+ year olds issue to be fixed, nor the lack of development in players after 23.

[h3nrique_SEP]

4 hours ago, blejdek said:

Nice game, ONLY 98 corners in 4 matches, 90 came from idiot wide players who didnt cross when they were alone, better wait for opponent players coming to block. 

 

98???? hahahaha, and i was thinking to download the game again. thank you pal. 

and i'm sorry 

[Abysmal]

Im genuinely starting to lose patience now with player ratings. I made a separate thread after the hot-fix addressing it and there were quite a few others complaining, yet no response from SI. I come into this thread and read the responses and some of the highest upvoted ones are all regarding player ratings. 
 

At this point are SI even bothered? This issue has been raised so many times now and has only partially been addressed. Im not sure how much longer I can continue to play when my players are just averaging 6.4/6.5 despite me completely overachieving as a squad and individual players all contributing quite well. 

I dont care what they say but it is game breaking for me. It completely rips the fun out of the game. Constant media questions about why I continue with certain players, the board being unhappy with the recent performances of certain players, debating selling wonderkids because they just are not developing as fast as they should because of poor performances.

It also clearly isn't my tactic as im winning lots of games and overachieving. Just not sure what more there is to say at this point. Hoping for it to be finally addressed in the next patch but for an issue as big as this should have been fixed long, long ago.

[freddieos]

Does anyone else find that there is a disappropriate amount of newgens that have Unambitious personality compared to previous versions? Think I've seen it mentioned by someone else on the forum before, not sure if it's a known issue or not. 

@Abysmal - I've played in a few different leagues so far with different tactics and find that ratings change between them. Try a save somewhere else and see if you get same results.

[Delvi]

Il 19/1/2021 in 12:05 , stppnmd ha scritto:

yeah... i've read good reviews, bought the game and I feel a bit robbed

I think it's difficult to balance it properly: with FM20 it was the opposite, DLP had highest ratings almost in every match. I really hope they will fix it properly with next patch.

[Delvi]

7 ore fa, Marko1989 ha scritto:

In my save, Messi had his Acceleration drop from 17 to 13 in one year. During that year, he had just one injury, 5 days long.

But in next FM, they will give him 17 for acceleration again haha.


 

Player development IMHO is the area which requires more improvement. I hate to be forced to sell players when they're just 32-33 yo...