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Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread


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11 minutes ago, jim5000 said:

Why can you not dispute with a player when they say that you haven't fulfilled your promise when you have?

Key examples being:

  1. You promised my match time wouldn't change when I returned from injury
  2. You promised me more match time.

You play these players in pretty much every match, and when they come complaining that you have broken your promise your options are

  1. Sorry pal, I promise I'll play you more
  2. Tough luck, do you want to leave
  3. I'm the manager, suck it up

Why is there no option that says 'I have played you in 90% of matches that you have been available for since the promise was made, your complaint is not upheld'??

Other examples being 'You said you would improve the coaching team', when you have, and 'you said you would reinforce the midfield, when you have.

I have paraphrased slightly on the chat options, but the main gist of it is there. It's really irratating to have to pander to them, or admit you have broken promises when you clearly haven't.

This is definitely a module in the game that does need some tuning- if you have a save from just before any of these instances please upload it to the Bugs forum and let the guys have a  look at it

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17 minutes ago, FrazT said:

This is definitely a module in the game that does need some tuning- if you have a save from just before any of these instances please upload it to the Bugs forum and let the guys have a  look at it

Thanks, posted a save file to the bugs forum -

 

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1 hour ago, rdbayly said:

The in-game world disagrees with you. I’ve just take over at Norwich and one of their full backs has a 6.4 average for the season. This is low enough for ex players to start criticising them, fans having a go on social media and for constant questions about their ‘poor form’ in press conferences.

So the game is absolutely classing a 6.4 average as poor.

Problem is when I analyse previous games, I’m not seeing much in either the stats or analysis to justify his ratings. 

It doesn’t help that we’ve been denied these tools during live play, and the ones that do exist are flat out broken.
 

The in game world doesn't disagree since starting rating is in the 6 range which is average, if 7 rating was average then the starting rating would be 7, which it's not.

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why do my players stand there like melons not making a tackle while players run through them like there not there and score? yes sometimes they might run after the runner but still don't even bother to get a tackle in even when in a good position to, frustrating to look at

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41 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

The in game world doesn't disagree since starting rating is in the 6 range which is average, if 7 rating was average then the starting rating would be 7, which it's not.

The ‘6 range’ is too blunt in this case as the ratings are far more sensitive than that. There is a huge difference between (for example) a 6.3 and a 6.7. This is proved by the frequent question thrown at you post match about why I chose not to sub off x player (who got a 6.3) as he was playing so poorly.

Anyway, not going to labour this any further. The original point was that many players seem to dip in to this lower 6 band, and are subsequently deemed by the game to have played poorly.

This was fine in previous iterations as It was less prevalent and we had the stats available to understand why.

 

Edited by rdbayly
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4 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

7 rating is not average, 7 rating is having a good game, dont know where your getting your information from.

From the game. Try praising a player who finished a game with a 7 rating for a good game. Even at >7.0 I've had players disagree and say "It seems like we differ about what makes a good performance". I've just tried it with anyone at 7-7.2 range, most of them were not happy and I demoralized half of my squad - so where are you getting your information from?

Edited by goranm
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On 23/12/2020 at 00:34, Domoboy23 said:

Yep. It appears even if your full back has defended his life out, cleared 5 balls off the line, won 20 of his 20 headers... if he is in a tactic that plays hoofball and his pass completion isn't over 90% he's down to a 5.8! The player rating system doesn't seem to reward defending, only attacking.

Loving the game this year, and the ME and I'm very picky. Just a shame it seems it's hard to give any value to player ratings which makes scouting and assessment very difficult. Especially combined with the UI changes which make stats a lot less accessible and heavily bugged at the moment,

There is a post in this very thread saying that only defenders were leading in the average ratings for the league, something like 8 out of the 10 top average ratings are defenders...so clearly not for at least one person. Also my player of the season 8 out of 10 seasons has been a centre back on FM20.

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7 hours ago, goranm said:

From the game. Try praising a player who finished a game with a 7 rating for a good game. Even at >7.0 I've had players disagree and say "It seems like we differ about what makes a good performance". I've just tried it with anyone at 7-7.2 range, most of them were not happy and I demoralized half of my squad - so where are you getting your information from?

Your confusing a good game with an excellent game, why would i praise a player for a good game? to single out praise for a single player would need to be at the very least an excellent game.

Edited by iAlwaysWin
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Is it possible to build a new stadium which is not bigger than the old stadium in this game? Like what Juve did in real life? For example, I'm playing as Lazio with my stadium being Olimpico with capacity 68000 and we never have sold out games and average att is around 48000, I would like to build a new one with ,let's say, 50000 capacity. Has anyone ever seen something like that in the game?

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4 hours ago, kiwityke said:

There is a post in this very thread saying that only defenders were leading in the average ratings for the league, something like 8 out of the 10 top average ratings are defenders...so clearly not for at least one person. Also my player of the season 8 out of 10 seasons has been a centre back on FM20.

Key words here: FM20 not FM21

Also the other thing about in this thread... Which update was that post made on? As the issue only seems to of cropped up since the last one a week ago

It's a shame as I love defending. I'd rather a 1-0 other a 4-3 anyday. Just want to see players rewarded as they used to be

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1 hour ago, iAlwaysWin said:
7 hours ago, goranm said:

 

Your mixing up a good game with an excellent game, why would i praise a player for a good game? to single out praise for a single player would need to be at the very least an excellent game.

I don't know why would you do that, you play the game the way you want to, and I play the way I want to. The praise option is not reserved for masterclasses only, it's a "well done, you've had a good game" kind of thing. I praise players consistently when they have 7.3 or above, and in FM21 it is yet to backfire. But praising at 7 or 7.1, well that might have consequences.

And no, I'm not mixing up anything. The language used by a player when he disagrees with you literally uses the adjective "good".

Also, praising players after the match has completely concluded and you have left the dressing room is not singling them out, nothing is stopping you from praising multiple players. The only time that you'll get a message that the player has appreciated you singling him out for praise is if you do it in the dressing room after the match.

Point is that a rating of 7 is an average game, not a "good" game. A midfielder can get a 7 if they have 0 key passes, 0 shots on goal or 0% shot on goal accuracy, 0% crossing accuracy and passing accuracy around 88%. That's just a game where the midfielder did nothing, not a good game. I've won games with 5-0 where the midfielder would get a 6.9 or 7 or 7.1 because he didn't do anything.

Edited by goranm
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The game starts and players are on 6.7 at kick-off which implies that is where they should finish if they do nothing. For many years now 6.6-6.7 has been a bang average player and anything below that suggests they are underperforming and the media modules, discussion modules and ME feedback all back this up. Fullbacks getting ratings between 6 and 6.5 are underperforming given the metrics used in Football Manager. Not sure why this is a point up for semantic debate when the in-game evidence is pretty clear.

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1 hour ago, goranm said:

Point is that a rating of 7 is an average game, not a "good" game. A midfielder can get a 7 if they have 0 key passes, 0 shots on goal or 0% shot on goal accuracy, 0% crossing accuracy and passing accuracy around 88%. 

No they Cant.

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Just a silly little observation about [Manager name]-ball  - it's a nice little touch, but seems to be used a bit too often.  I'd like to only see it appearing if a manager has had repeated success across clubs with the same tactic or long-term success at one club. I'm seeing it now after little more than a season with one club, which seems rather premature.

 

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16 hours ago, tiotom92 said:

Loving the match engine since the patch.

Has anyone else noticed that long shots are now way more effective? Not complaining as they were a bit ineffective before! One of my CMs has tripled his last season (pre-patch) goal tally and we're only 4 matches in, and my other CM has equalled his. All long-range screamers, love it. Even my wing-backs are banging in the occasional goal from 30 yards.

Yes, about half the goals in my matches post patch have been from outside the area which statistically is too many (real life stats suggest one goal in eight or so?).  However, I've only played a handful of matches so not enough of a sample to know whether it's coincidence, the ME, tactical, or to do with player attributes but it's something I'm watching for.

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Ok so with the Christmas break for the first time I got some time to get really into it, and I must say it didn't disappoint. I'm having a lot of fun with FM21 right now. A couple of remarks from my side:

- The ME is great, thanks for that SI.

- I've said it before, but the UI in general and especially the match UI are very disappointing, if you compare it to FM19 or below for example, it's much worse now. I get that SI want the game to be like football in real life, but don't forget that it's just a game and almost everyone doesn't watch the full 90 minutes. I wish you could just let us choose between the new or old UI. 

- Manchester United are, again, ridiculously overrated. 

- The AI makes a lot of stupid decisions. I'm managing in Holland but since I like Liverpool a lot I watch between 10 and 20 Liverpool matches a season, in game. The first season, Milner played in almost all of them, while Thiago only got to seven games (and he was only injured for like three weeks). Naby Keita got to twelve appearances, eight of them coming off the bench, while Oxlade-Chamberlain played 24 matches (six off the bench)? And the worst of all, Liverpool got to the Champions League final, against Juventus. Everyone was fully fit. So, when you have a fully fit squad and you're managing Liverpool, who do you pick as you starting LB in a CL final? My guess is, you would definitely not pick James Milner. But, that's right, the AI did. Robertson on the bench, Milner starting LB, and a midfield of Henderson, Wijnaldum and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Thiago, on of the best midfielders in the world, not even in the squad. Come on SI...

But, as I said, I'm having fun! These are just a couple of irritations that I had to get off my chest.

Edited by hagedisboy
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18 hours ago, goranm said:

He's lost 66% of his headers and made 1 foul. Passes were probably all safe passes, and no key tackles or key headers. At the end of the game the 0.4 bump is likely a clean sheet bonus, and the game can't tell if it'll be a clean sheet until it's over.

Can you post a screenshot of Stones' stats for that match? He got a better rating with a yellow card, so there'll probably be some clues as to why Gabriel has 6.8.

 

John Stones_ Form.png

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Haven’t played for about a month due to other commitments, but looking to get some game time in over Xmas.

 

It looks like the ME is still in good shape since release which is great. I’ve read on this thread about a NEWGEN bug that’s in game currently? Has this been addressed yet? (Can’t find the relevant thread)

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Not sure if it's a lower league in an editor added expansion issue, but.... The game seems completely random. My team plays great one match, terrible the next. Sometimes they are playing to my instructions, sometimes they aren't. My goalkeeper lets in crap goals from 35 yards against the run of play, then gets a great match rating. xG never really makes any sense.

I know the first response will be, "it's your tactics", but I've been playing since CM 01/02 and been pretty darn good at both tactics and generally winning. Until now.

I'm all for making the game more challenging, but not just random nonsense.

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5 hours ago, iAlwaysWin said:

No they Cant.

I guess my game's broken then.

90% pass completion, no key passes, 0% crossing completion, 1 shot, 0 shots on goal. Rating: 7.0

The midfielder above him: 86% pass completion, 1 key pass, 33% cross completion, 1 shot, 0 shots on goal. Rating: 7.0. Both had an ok game, neither had a good game.

 

ok.jpg

Edited by goranm
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2 hours ago, Jimaldo said:

They've not won a league on my game in 4 seasons. Oddly, Arsenal have finished in the top 6 each season too :lol:

One of the things FM doesn't simulate well is bad ownership.  United are bad in real life* in large part because of Ed Woodward making poor transfer and staffing decisions, yet keeping his job long-term.  Arsenal are bad in real life in large part because the ownership hired a crook to run their recruitment.  Those factors basically go away in FM's simulations (and some of it, like Arsenal paying backhanders to friendly agents, doesn't exist).  So it turns into Team A having Weakness N and addressing it by buying Player X.  It's all logical, and means that generally Arsenal, United and other big-but-dumb clubs will trend towards being good because they've got money. 

One place I'd like to see a bit of development in FM is in the area of catastrophe.  Bad owners, financial crisises, player revolt.  And make it stick by locking certain staff responsibilities for certain clubs and certain situations.  For example, at Club A in a fully realistic environment, the manager shouldn't be able to take responsibility for transfers away from their awful Director of Football, or hire and fire the DoF/Technical Director, until they've proven themselves or the DoF has been fired.

 

*for a certain value of bad, obviously.  They under-perform relative to their income, transfer spend, wage outlay and recent history. 

Edited by Sunstrikuuu
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26 minutes ago, goranm said:

I guess my game's broken then.

90% pass completion, no key passes, 0% crossing completion, 1 shot, 0 shots on goal. Rating: 7.0

The midfielder above him: 86% pass completion, 1 key pass, 33% cross completion, 1 shot, 0 shots on goal. Rating: 7.0. Both had an ok game, neither had a good game.

 

ok.jpg

key header and a successful dribble and a pass completion of 90%, i would most certainly say that's better than a average game.

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7 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

key header and a successful dribble and a pass completion of 90%, i would most certainly say that's better than a average game.

Here's another one then, no key headers, no dribbles, 4 fouls. Not much of anything, another plain average game, he did what he was supposed to do, a couple of tackles, a couple of interceptions, nothing out of the ordinary. Rating: 7.0

High pass completion doesn't equate a good game. Look at Tonali in the same game, much riskier passing, but 4 key passes and 1 CCC. That's a good game.

ok2.png

 

6 hours ago, FrazT said:

For the second time of asking, please see my post from earlier today:

Guys- it might be better if you took your discussion about game ratings to the already opened thread here:

https://community.sigames.com/topic/544134-are-player-ratings-harsher-this-year/

If you can split & merge the relevant posts with that thread, I'd be happy to continue there. Otherwise I'm stoping here as I've made my point about 7.0 ratings.

Edited by goranm
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29 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

One of the things FM doesn't simulate well is bad ownership.  United are bad in real life* in large part because of Ed Woodward making poor transfer and staffing decisions, yet keeping his job long-term.  Arsenal are bad in real life in large part because the ownership hired a crook to run their recruitment.  Those factors basically go away in FM's simulations (and some of it, like Arsenal paying backhanders to friendly agents, doesn't exist).  So it turns into Team A having Weakness N and addressing it by buying Player X.  It's all logical, and means that generally Arsenal, United and other big-but-dumb clubs will trend towards being good because they've got money. 

One place I'd like to see a bit of development in FM is in the area of catastrophe.  Bad owners, financial crisises, player revolt.  And make it stick by locking certain staff responsibilities for certain clubs and certain situations.  For example, at Club A in a fully realistic environment, the manager shouldn't be able to take responsibility for transfers away from their awful Director of Football, or hire and fire the DoF/Technical Director, until they've proven themselves or the DoF has been fired.

 

*for a certain value of bad, obviously.  They under-perform relative to their income, transfer spend, wage outlay and recent history. 

All these things are basically negated by league rep. In real life very few top players want to go to United (Poor form, often no CL, no silverware in quite a while), and those that go will demand absurd wages knowing that United will pay those. United itself also has to pay premium, because clubs know they have money and not a lot of options. In game though? Big club from the highest rep league in the world?! Who cares that they don't play CL, win no silverware, I MUST play in the premier league! And voila, United will casually empty much better clubs than itself, like Bayern and Real, because every player there wants to play in the Premier League....

 

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21 horas atrás, tiotom92 disse:

Loving the match engine since the patch.

Has anyone else noticed that long shots are now way more effective? Not complaining as they were a bit ineffective before! One of my CMs has tripled his last season (pre-patch) goal tally and we're only 4 matches in, and my other CM has equalled his. All long-range screamers, love it. Even my wing-backs are banging in the occasional goal from 30 yards.

Oh no, so it's FM 2020 all over again? It felt like most of the goals in 2020 were from long distance, one of the reasons i stopped playing it...

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vor 22 Minuten schrieb pejocho:

It's very annoying that after being waiting for a fix for the youth intake issue, now I will have to wait one more time some weeks for the fix of the rating players issue. 

At the moment there are a few reports about a player rating issue. It's too early to say that this is a general issue. There is more evidence (stats) needed. 

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5 hours ago, Luizinho said:

Haven’t played for about a month due to other commitments, but looking to get some game time in over Xmas.

 

It looks like the ME is still in good shape since release which is great. I’ve read on this thread about a NEWGEN bug that’s in game currently? Has this been addressed yet? (Can’t find the relevant thread)

 

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hace 18 minutos, KUBI dijo:

At the moment there are a few reports about a player rating issue. It's too early to say that this is a general issue. There is more evidence (stats) needed. 

Yes, there is no massive reports as with the youth intake issue, one reason could be that it seems to affect just the full detail leagues, and the majority of people (I think) doesnt care about edit the full detail option of other leagues. In fact, I have seen other users that says that the teams of other leagues are not affected by this issue, so there is lots of probabilities that these leagues are not in full detail. Whoever that wants to comprove this issue, the only thing that they have to do is to simulate ONE season with a few leagues at full detail, and you will see the player ratings in these leagues.

I have done two test and I posted it in the respective post as moderators have said. I let you the two test, and you will see if you think that ratings are normal or low. I accept that for some people this is not game breaking and for other yes (for me yes), but the fact that this issue exist is a reality.

Cheers.

 

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As was pointed out in the other thread on ratings, Key Tackles have vanished apparently. Can concur that in my own save not a single player has made a key tackle so far (like 10 games or so in the season). Meanwhile, my fullback who is on loan to an inactive league and thus does not have full detail matches did make some key tackles and has a better average rating than any of the fullbacks at my club (except for one guy who played like 60 mins in a win and scraped out a 7.0 for reasons unclear to me).

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13 hours ago, Domoboy23 said:

Key words here: FM20 not FM21

Also the other thing about in this thread... Which update was that post made on? As the issue only seems to of cropped up since the last one a week ago

It's a shame as I love defending. I'd rather a 1-0 other a 4-3 anyday. Just want to see players rewarded as they used to be

That was a typo I meant FM21! Defenders do just fine on average ratings in my experience. If not a little OP in fact.

(Would appear this issue exists on the update I didnt update yet as I prefer to play a save on one ME version than multiple/risk introducing something game breaking)

Edited by kiwityke
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14 hours ago, KUBI said:

At the moment there are a few reports about a player rating issue. It's too early to say that this is a general issue. There is more evidence (stats) needed. 

Does positioning during the match (or off ball movement), and decisions a player makes, affect the player rating in the end? I'm guessing it does, but it can't be seen in the stats?

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hace 32 minutos, Zoolok42 dijo:

Does positioning during the match (or off ball movement), and decisions a player makes, affect the player rating in the end? I'm guessing it does, but it can't be seen in the stats?

The issue here is generalized, it is not about the defenders of a single tactic of a single user, its about all players affected by the ME in full detail leagues (always is the league of the managed club and other optional leagues if the user activate them). 

If someone here complaints about his fullback is getting low ratings, maybe it could be multiples factors, but I repeat, it is about all players of full detail leagues, both AI and user players. 

Edited by pejocho
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There is now a thread in the bugs forum and also one in the GD forum about a possible issue with player ratings and/or lack of key tackles. There is no need to discuss this here any further. 

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I have three memory related issues with the game.

 

1. It doesn't remember that I've put it in windowed mode, and every time I fire up the game it's back in full screen.

2. Every time I move an FC Bayern II player up to the FC Bayern squad it puts him back down.

3. Every time I go into the fixture list it by default shows me the info of the first pre season game, rather than the upcoming fixture.

 

Thankfully, the fitness issues during the Club World Cup seems to be fixed since FM20.

Edited by ottey_swe
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10 minutes ago, ottey_swe said:

I have three memory related issues with the game.

 

1. It doesn't remember that I've put it in windowed mode, and every time I fire up the game it's back in full screen.

2. Every time I move an FC Bayern II player up to the FC Bayern squad it puts him back down.

3. Every time I go into the fixture list it by default shows me the info of the first pre season game, rather than the upcoming fixture.

 

Thankfully, the fitness issues during the Club World Cup seems to be fixed since FM20.

Number 2 solution: Put player in bayern u-18 or whatever youth squad they have and from there put it in bayern first squad. Its not a fix yet, but at least it works with this trick.

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Is there any link to bugs forum where people were experiencing Carabao Cup fixture issue? Every time my next opponent in Carabao Cup is the team I play my next league game against if they also proceed to the next round. There is certainly something wrong there. 

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1 hour ago, CM said:

Is there any link to bugs forum where people were experiencing Carabao Cup fixture issue? Every time my next opponent in Carabao Cup is the team I play my next league game against if they also proceed to the next round. There is certainly something wrong there. 

I posted this earlier in the thread too, it’s 100% an issue.

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Anyone else seeing a lot more offsides since the latest patch?

I do manage in an amateur league and also play a more direct game, but I often see my players not even looking to move back onside. They just seem to stand there and hope the defensive line moves them back onside. It is giving my creative players no options because any ball to thes eplayers will result in an offisde call.

I just played my third match since the patch and I've noticed similar in all three. Just thought I'd post here before I think about bugging this.

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Now I play 5 away games in row in EPL. Fixture is kind of a joke. My games are being moved to further dates for no reason on weekends where I don't have any other games to play. When I use do not allow matches to be moved why are still my games still being rescheduled? 

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  • Neil Brock changed the title to Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

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