Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

[Tonton_Zola]

59 minutes ago, ai2ker said:

So this post was inexplicably removed without explanation, but its very pertinent to the general tenor of this thread:

FM21 has been released and I'm flabbergasted at how bad some of the changes made are. There's clearly some sort of 'bell and whistles' directive coming down which is why the UI is constantly tweaked, with shaky or non-existent justifications. I think the notion of leaving things well enough alone should be taken to heart. Frankly, I think it's probably too late for a lot of this, but at least I'll feel better having aired it all and maybe the next iteration can be saved. I've also tried to offer compliments where possible so this isn't all one way traffic. Anyways to the point, and I'll have shots of FM20 as well for comparison.

Pre-Match, FM20: 

Cleanly presented info, lack of clutter. This screen is now gone. Instead we have this:

 

Where's the game? Who's the ref? What other games are going on right now? Recent Form? Previous Meetings? Prefered Formations? Upcoming Fixtures? Who's injured for the match? Why did we lose all this information? The game now feels like it is in a vacuum, not part of an on-going league or cup. Not to mention we've lost all the tabs I've highlighted in red in FM20. 

Thing I like: For Next Match only - good if you want to change mentality specifically for a game against a league leader or minnow, but don't want it to be a permanent adjustment to the tactic.

In FM20, during the lead up to kickoff we have this great graphic showing the lineups, uniform colors AND formations:

 

For comparison, here's a real television pre-match screen:

 

Now we have this:

 

No formation,  no headshots; a stark white sheet with a rough font instead. In FM20, you can drill down into any of the players listed if you'd like - cannot do that in FM21. We do now have a simulacrum of social media on the left, which is entirely ignorable (just like real life, or this post - perhaps I'm getting too meta). Oh and we now know who the ref is. Who the ref is is not very important, but it's a nice piece of immersion.

What I like: The match sheet could have an old-timey, authentic feel, especially with lower-league clubs, but it should be in addition to, not in lieu of the formation screen.

Next pre-match screen, the pep talk. In FM20:

Again, clean, easy to read and use. Now FM 21:

I know this has a snowball's chance in hell of being changed as what we're looking at is one of the big 'features' and others have posted about it, but it's cluttered, confusing and an eyesore. Relabeling aggressive, cautious, etc. to thrash arms, point fingers, etc is pretty underwhelming. If you cannot represent the players beyond a box with their name in them (I mean at the very least add the headshots like in dynamics), there's little reason to arrange them in this difficult way to read. I can promise you it does not feel like a locker room with me the manager in the center.

Anyways - we give our pep talk, and onto the match:

In FM20, there's several things to note - first, we have a timeline, if want to rewind or see something again.

We have full club names (even if they're the FM trademark-avoiding version) with logos (when I have the pack installed), which again can be drilled into if you want to easily see the page of the team your playing (or your own).

We have customizable match information allowing yout display what you want, and not what you don't.

We have updates, which allows you to see the live standings. 

We have all the coaching tools on the top, while commentary runs on the bottom.

In FM21:

 

The timeline - where is it? 

The club names are all again in the same harsh font of the team sheet and strangely truncated and without logos. It's a weirdly, self-enforced limitation and makes it less obvious who you're playing. You cannot drill into the names to see. Not an improvement, in fact a decided downgrade. I like to play in unfamiliar leagues and it's not easy to always know who's being played in-match at a glance.

We've completely lost the ability to curate our match information on screen. The tablet is a poor substitute. I'm sure this was 'by design'.

Updates only flash when they change - I have to activate the tablet to see them now, taking up one of two available screens there.

The tactics and subs being adjacent to the commentary is confusing and cluttered. I accept that this may just be an adjustment to make, but the commentary is a lot easier to follow when it's the sole thing on the bottom of the screen. I understand the tactics bar can be minimized, but if you're using it, it'll be visible a fair amount. 

What I like: Not much to be honest, this was the chief driver of me making this post.

What about between highlights? FM20 vs. FM21

I won't even touch the memed-to-death-already passing chart in 'the dugout' but again this is not an improvement. Information is more scattered, less intuitive. My team is still on the bottom, theirs is in formation on the right. What use to be a simple scan across is now similar to the pep talks one of up down over and around. Are you guys trying to limit screen time through sore eyes?

What I like: How much that passing chart made me laugh - I think the sub recommendations are okay but will surely become 'overrun in midfield' tedious. Post Beta Edit: This has been fixed, sort of. 

Finally, let's talk goals and substitutions:

Why are there no headshots with goals? When are you ever going to see them? When you drill into their individual details only? This change is inexplicable to me. Again because the bottom of the screen is now cluttered, it's actually somewhat easy to miss events. In FM20 you have goalscorers and subs prominently at the top. 

I could very well go on further, but this is enough. I realize this may read like a complete trashing, and that's not the goal. I'm obviously a fan of FM and a lot of what is done is positive- FM21 has greater speed and an improved ME which I am a fan of. Would just love a more intuitive design and things to not be so unilaterally removed when there's no demand for it. This isn't even getting into the insistence that there is only one skin (from 3 default last version) that primarily consists of purple and snowblind white. I know people will have different opinions and I welcome them, but to me this new UI/UX is obviously less clear and informative, more click-intensive and graphically worse. I am more tempted than ever to just remain with FM20 than to persist in this purple purgatory but I am hoping some of this can be redressed.

 

Agree with everything.

also, why not give us the assister too?

[CaptCanuck]

40 minutes ago, ai2ker said:

Well considering there's been NO official response to all these very question UX moves, just moderators doing their underappreciated job, it seems unlikely. Not even receiving a 'we decided to change it to this, don't like it play something else' I'd say they're just planning on riding this out because they know there's a sizeable percentage who will buy it regardless, so it's moot. 

The hope is that they can revert some of this for 22, but let's be honest, considering how unpopular the changes made are it's clear the user doesn't mean much to the powers that be. 

. 

Gosh darnit I don't like being over pessimistic, but I do tend to agree with that last point Heck I wanted to be positive and post some clips of throughball goals, but guess what that functionality is broken.

Forgot the awful UI (sorry it's awful by any measure subjective or objective) just the amount of simply, silly bugs that are in the product is something I find quite staggering and an indicator of not giving a... and I've worked in a few software shops that would make 'Silicon Valley' look like a documentary, where we'd not do that.

How is the passing map broken? Why do you get hover-over fingers when you cannot click on anything? How can you not return to the data analysis screen once you are in the dressing room at half time? Why do labels have their IDs from the code displayed? Why do sizing issues mean I cannot see  the 'Do it' button in the prematch wack-a-mole windows/panels which are bound? How is video exporting and watching highlighted goals broken? Where did a goal's assist getter go in the highlight?

I'm a noob (only started playing in Mar. due to covid) and I have greatly enjoyed playing FM20 when I'm stuck at home and not allowed/shouldn't go out and socialise. It really has helped with the stircraziness of this year, but man there are just sooooo many things to overlook, to get an updated player DB and ME.

As a glutton for punishment, I am going to give it another go tonight and as long as there are enough football nerds out there who will do so, yes we likely are stuck where we are.

[Weasek]

Am I the only one who doesn't mind the u.i!I am 60 hours into my save ,nearly finished my 1st season with Exeter City and really enjoying it.i have got used to the screens etc.i quite like it you can see all the info you need at half time only.i watched a programme about the Brazilian national team and that's what happens in real life.There was 2 blokes with laptops in the stands analysing the match looking at space on the pitch ,players making runs etc&general shape of the teams then at half time they tell the manager all the info and he can do as he feels fit.i have found all the info i need to set my team up.if nobody else likes it then fair enough but I am enjoying the game &the new look on the whole.the m.e is far better.i been doing different tactical tweaks for each game &alot in game no problem.i have encountered very few bugs considering I am 60 hours in plus its the way every game is now.i would say s.i have done a good job.i am sure they will sort the regeneration (which of course needs sorting)out plus a few more tweaks along the way

Edited December 4, 2020 by Weasek

[Pav_Makarov]

1 hour ago, ai2ker said:

So this post was inexplicably removed without explanation, but its very pertinent to the general tenor of this thread:

FM21 has been released and I'm flabbergasted at how bad some of the changes made are. There's clearly some sort of 'bell and whistles' directive coming down which is why the UI is constantly tweaked, with shaky or non-existent justifications. I think the notion of leaving things well enough alone should be taken to heart. Frankly, I think it's probably too late for a lot of this, but at least I'll feel better having aired it all and maybe the next iteration can be saved. I've also tried to offer compliments where possible so this isn't all one way traffic. Anyways to the point, and I'll have shots of FM20 as well for comparison.

Pre-Match, FM20: 

Cleanly presented info, lack of clutter. This screen is now gone. Instead we have this:

 

Where's the game? Who's the ref? What other games are going on right now? Recent Form? Previous Meetings? Prefered Formations? Upcoming Fixtures? Who's injured for the match? Why did we lose all this information? The game now feels like it is in a vacuum, not part of an on-going league or cup. Not to mention we've lost all the tabs I've highlighted in red in FM20. 

Thing I like: For Next Match only - good if you want to change mentality specifically for a game against a league leader or minnow, but don't want it to be a permanent adjustment to the tactic.

In FM20, during the lead up to kickoff we have this great graphic showing the lineups, uniform colors AND formations:

 

For comparison, here's a real television pre-match screen:

 

Now we have this:

 

No formation,  no headshots; a stark white sheet with a rough font instead. In FM20, you can drill down into any of the players listed if you'd like - cannot do that in FM21. We do now have a simulacrum of social media on the left, which is entirely ignorable (just like real life, or this post - perhaps I'm getting too meta). Oh and we now know who the ref is. Who the ref is is not very important, but it's a nice piece of immersion.

What I like: The match sheet could have an old-timey, authentic feel, especially with lower-league clubs, but it should be in addition to, not in lieu of the formation screen.

Next pre-match screen, the pep talk. In FM20:

Again, clean, easy to read and use. Now FM 21:

I know this has a snowball's chance in hell of being changed as what we're looking at is one of the big 'features' and others have posted about it, but it's cluttered, confusing and an eyesore. Relabeling aggressive, cautious, etc. to thrash arms, point fingers, etc is pretty underwhelming. If you cannot represent the players beyond a box with their name in them (I mean at the very least add the headshots like in dynamics), there's little reason to arrange them in this difficult way to read. I can promise you it does not feel like a locker room with me the manager in the center.

Anyways - we give our pep talk, and onto the match:

In FM20, there's several things to note - first, we have a timeline, if want to rewind or see something again.

We have full club names (even if they're the FM trademark-avoiding version) with logos (when I have the pack installed), which again can be drilled into if you want to easily see the page of the team your playing (or your own).

We have customizable match information allowing yout display what you want, and not what you don't.

We have updates, which allows you to see the live standings. 

We have all the coaching tools on the top, while commentary runs on the bottom.

In FM21:

 

The timeline - where is it? 

The club names are all again in the same harsh font of the team sheet and strangely truncated and without logos. It's a weirdly, self-enforced limitation and makes it less obvious who you're playing. You cannot drill into the names to see. Not an improvement, in fact a decided downgrade. I like to play in unfamiliar leagues and it's not easy to always know who's being played in-match at a glance.

We've completely lost the ability to curate our match information on screen. The tablet is a poor substitute. I'm sure this was 'by design'.

Updates only flash when they change - I have to activate the tablet to see them now, taking up one of two available screens there.

The tactics and subs being adjacent to the commentary is confusing and cluttered. I accept that this may just be an adjustment to make, but the commentary is a lot easier to follow when it's the sole thing on the bottom of the screen. I understand the tactics bar can be minimized, but if you're using it, it'll be visible a fair amount. 

What I like: Not much to be honest, this was the chief driver of me making this post.

What about between highlights? FM20 vs. FM21

I won't even touch the memed-to-death-already passing chart in 'the dugout' but again this is not an improvement. Information is more scattered, less intuitive. My team is still on the bottom, theirs is in formation on the right. What use to be a simple scan across is now similar to the pep talks one of up down over and around. Are you guys trying to limit screen time through sore eyes?

What I like: How much that passing chart made me laugh - I think the sub recommendations are okay but will surely become 'overrun in midfield' tedious. Post Beta Edit: This has been fixed, sort of. 

Finally, let's talk goals and substitutions:

Why are there no headshots with goals? When are you ever going to see them? When you drill into their individual details only? This change is inexplicable to me. Again because the bottom of the screen is now cluttered, it's actually somewhat easy to miss events. In FM20 you have goalscorers and subs prominently at the top. 

I could very well go on further, but this is enough. I realize this may read like a complete trashing, and that's not the goal. I'm obviously a fan of FM and a lot of what is done is positive- FM21 has greater speed and an improved ME which I am a fan of. Would just love a more intuitive design and things to not be so unilaterally removed when there's no demand for it. This isn't even getting into the insistence that there is only one skin (from 3 default last version) that primarily consists of purple and snowblind white. I know people will have different opinions and I welcome them, but to me this new UI/UX is obviously less clear and informative, more click-intensive and graphically worse. I am more tempted than ever to just remain with FM20 than to persist in this purple purgatory but I am hoping some of this can be redressed.

 

I am behind every word you've said. I can't believe SI thinks it's handy to simultaneously track the match's progress and deal with tools, spread all over the screen in unreadable fashion.

This time SI fed us trash, saying it's a cake, but hey, there are no alternatives, right? Since they pedalled UI as one of highlight features we are forced to live with it.

In any case I'd love to hear the explanation from SI's UX/UI associate on why they consider this product completed and good

[santy001]

1 minute ago, rp1966 said:

New stealth kits have got to confuse the opposition ... right?

 

 

Definitely one for the bugs forum. If you've got the pkm saved, upload it. 

[rp1966]

6 minutes ago, santy001 said:

Definitely one for the bugs forum. If you've got the pkm saved, upload it. 

Yeah, can try but I think it's something in the match visualiser code around substitutes so might not be visible in a pkm.  Kits disappeared on first set of substitutes and reappeared after the next - game still in progress. I'll see what happens if I replay the pkm before trying an upload.

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by rp1966

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

so, no one has any info on why the match day UI team abbreviations are so silly and not just three letters??

[HCFC87]

After some time with the game, I want to say that I am a fan of the change from a % figure for fitness to the heart system.

Yes, it's slightly less accurate, but did we really need to know the exact % of a player's fitness - especially since 0-50% was basically never seen except for injuries.

I feel that with the heart system is making me pay more attention to the fitness of players. You can see very quickly who is tired and who isn't, and it honestly feels a bit more realistic to just have a more general view on their fatigue.

 

I can't say I agree with all the UI changes - the timeline is a big miss, assists seem hidden now, there's wasted space either side of the pitch on 2D, and the text commentry covers the pitch way too much. But I do in general like the move to something a little more simple.

 

Player ratings are something similar I'd love to see have an overhaul at some point in the future. We have an entire spectrum of 0-10.0 yet every player 90% of the time is rated 6.5-6.7, unless they score or assist. The whole system is meaningless. Even a move back to removing the decimal points would be good IMO, for all the use the .1s have for players.

[Haiku]

31 minutes ago, ai2ker said:

The hope is that they can revert some of this for 22, but let's be honest, considering how unpopular the changes made are it's clear the user doesn't mean much to the powers that be. 

Why do you think your opinion applies to all? I'm one of many who likes the new UI, and guess what, people who like it don't brag to tell how much they love it. They just enjoy the game, while those who don't like it go and bitch on the forums. And why should SI revert back and ignore those who like the new changes in favor of those who complain?

[craigcwwe]

The more I play and get used to the new UI the more and more I dislike it. So many little things missing as mentioned in the thread already that all add up and take their toll after a while. The biggest one being the team talk screen before/during/after a game. No need to change it, nobody asked for it to be changed and this new UI is pretty much universally disliked. Hopefully they go back to some of the older and much better UI bits for FM22. 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by craigcwwe

[rp1966]

4 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

Yeah, can try but I think it's something in the match visualiser code around substitutes so might not be visible in a pkm.  Kits disappeared on first set of substitutes and reappeared after the next - game still in progress. I'll see what happens if I replay the pkm before trying an upload.

 

OK. Updating this - using the replay controls skipped back to the time period where the kits had disappeared and everything was rendered OK. So it must be something specific that happens on some substitutions but is not persistent across renderings of a highlight.

[santy001]

Mods have no involvement so we can't really offer any commentary on why the UI changes the way it does. Personally I disliked the UI at first because it was different, over time I'm adjusting. I don't think its even a case of saying I necessarily preferred the old layout or the new layout I was just more familiar with it. I still mostly miss the split view I used to use several years back, that was my personal preference.

The ME is something that has more tangible information provided, via patch notes and stuff. So you'll tend to notice we will largely reframe the official information provided by SI when someone is making a point that is in contradiction to that information.

It's a feedback thread, not a Q&A thread. Whether you like or dislike an aspect is perfectly valid feedback. However, that feedback doesn't necessitate a response from developers. Funnily enough when you say "Well, I like/dislike X" the most likely reaction is that someone will read it and be like "Well, this person likes/dislikes X" and there is no further conversation required on that. 

Ultimately the process is pretty straight forward. My understanding is that this thread is a conduit for SI to collate information and feedback into the development process moving forward. It isn't inviting you in to be consulted on the development of the game, merely a process through which your opinions can in turn be passed on to the relevant developers. 

[Pav_Makarov]

Abscence of timeline is not nice. I can understand that aiming for realism they removed the possiblity to review the moment on the go, but there is no valid reason why we can't have timeline in analytics section post game. 

[Haiku]

16 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

The more I play and get used to the new UI the more and more I dislike it. So many little things missing as mentioned in the thread already that all add up and take their toll after a while. The biggest one being the team talk screen before/during/after a game. No need to change it, nobody aske for it to be changed and this new UI is pretty much universally disliked. Hopefully they go back to some of the older and much better UI bits for FM22. 

Nobody asked for most of the new features introduced throughout  the years, but people eventually liked them, got used to them or simply didn't. Not a SI defendant here, but eventually you'll get the idea that being a football manager is less about reading spreadsheets with data and more about socializing. You'll also understand that the physical social aspect is the most difficult part to recreate in a computer simulation, and most certainly it's at least one inch closer to reality having your players around you during team talk instead of looking at a spreadsheet with their names on it. Yes it is easier and faster to extract their reactions from a compact spreadsheet, but in a real locker room you'll have to move your head around to see those reactions. But don't worry, with the new changes in FM you'll only need to move your eyeballs across the screen, why is that too much for you?

[witticism]

15 minutes ago, Haiku said:

you'll only need to move your eyeballs across the screen, why is that too much for you?

How you feel about game mechanics does not excuse bad UI design.

Look at this profound waste of space

 

[craigcwwe]

16 minutes ago, Haiku said:

Nobody asked for most of the new features introduced throughout  the years, but people eventually liked them, got used to them or simply didn't. Not a SI defendant here, but eventually you'll get the idea that being a football manager is less about reading spreadsheets with data and more about socializing. You'll also understand that the physical social aspect is the most difficult part to recreate in a computer simulation, and most certainly it's at least one inch closer to reality having your players around you during team talk instead of looking at a spreadsheet with their names on it. Yes it is easier and faster to extract their reactions from a compact spreadsheet, but in a real locker room you'll have to move your head around to see those reactions. But don't worry, with the new changes in FM you'll only need to move your eyeballs across the screen, why is that too much for you?

Less of the snarky attitude wouldn't go amiss. 

And secondly. You have to remember it's a game at the end of the day and the FM20 UI for teamtalks is easier and quicker to see all the relevant information. The FM21 screen is awkward to look at and takes longer to see the information. It's unintuitive. 

If you've been keeping up with this thread then you'll have seen some very good posts highlighting the awkward UI we now have in the name of 'realism' as you put it. 

[Zoolok42]

37 minutes ago, Haiku said:

Why do you think your opinion applies to all? I'm one of many who likes the new UI, and guess what, people who like it don't brag to tell how much they love it. They just enjoy the game, while those who don't like it go and bitch on the forums. And why should SI revert back and ignore those who like the new changes in favor of those who complain?

There is no way you can know this. You know what you know, and that is that the majority of people giving feedback in the thread for giving feedback are not liking the new UI. The rest is speculation, and lack of overwhelming support for the new UI (again, in the only semi-official place on the planet to give feedback about the game) is not proof that people overwhelmingly like the new UI.

I suppose you download only 2-star apps from the play/app store, since obviously, the people that would give them 5 starts are out there enjoying the apps, and only the haters make an effort to have their voices heard?

[witticism]

 

3 minutes ago, craigcwwe said:

awkward UI we now have in the name of 'realism'

The worst part is, the game mechanics themselves should implement the realism, and we can have a field day with that chestnut another time, but that's wholly separate of the very literal implementation of a functional user interface.

[Zoolok42]

9 minutes ago, witticism said:

How you feel about game mechanics does not excuse bad UI design.

Look at this profound waste of space

 

But again, why is the room empty? Was it so hard to add some players in there, heaven forbid some (poorly) rendered 3D models of your squad, taken out from the 3D engine? Or at least their faces, and you know, facial expressions? If we're aiming for 'realism'?

[witticism]

  

Just now, Zoolok42 said:

why is the room empty?

because its easy to put in a wallpaper to make up for underutilized visual real estate.

1 minute ago, Zoolok42 said:

 Was it so hard to add some players in there, heaven forbid some (poorly) rendered 3D models of your squad, taken out from the 3D engine? Or at least their faces, and you know, facial expressions? If we're aiming for 'realism'?

Probably yes, by comparison

[BamBamBam]

50 minutes ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

so, no one has any info on why the match day UI team abbreviations are so silly and not just three letters??

I wondered that. Looks messy.

[roykela]

8 hours ago, Zemahh said:

What kind of "potential" does this Vanarama South 27 y/o have, to be worth €328M? 

Had exactly the same happen to me earlier today.
Set price was 10k but the asking price was for too low to generate interest so they suggested i set the asking price to £300M

[witticism]

More waste of space:

Just poorly thought out really

Edited December 4, 2020 by witticism
better pic

[Siven]

I came here to post about how bad the Team talks screen is after playing the game more.

But it seems i dont have to, as it seems many many people share the same opinion.

[rp1966]

 

59 minutes ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

so, no one has any info on why the match day UI team abbreviations are so silly and not just three letters??

It's a weird one.  The editor has a field for a 6 letter code.  A quick Google got me a Reuters list of the 3 letter codes for main leagues and international teams, so someone could mod it in.  Why, having gone for a TV type presentation, Si didn't go for the standard 3 letter codes I don't know.

Personally, I'd have made it switchable in preferences between TV codes and short team names. 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by rp1966

[Bakiano]

I hate the fact that I can't see who assisted a goal or who has x goals or x assists during the game. I just hate it.

[Phil930]

5 hours ago, ai2ker said:

So this post was inexplicably removed without explanation, but its very pertinent to the general tenor of this thread:

FM21 has been released and I'm flabbergasted at how bad some of the changes made are. There's clearly some sort of 'bell and whistles' directive coming down which is why the UI is constantly tweaked, with shaky or non-existent justifications. I think the notion of leaving things well enough alone should be taken to heart. Frankly, I think it's probably too late for a lot of this, but at least I'll feel better having aired it all and maybe the next iteration can be saved. I've also tried to offer compliments where possible so this isn't all one way traffic. Anyways to the point, and I'll have shots of FM20 as well for comparison.

Pre-Match, FM20: 

Cleanly presented info, lack of clutter. This screen is now gone. Instead we have this:

 

Where's the game? Who's the ref? What other games are going on right now? Recent Form? Previous Meetings? Prefered Formations? Upcoming Fixtures? Who's injured for the match? Why did we lose all this information? The game now feels like it is in a vacuum, not part of an on-going league or cup. Not to mention we've lost all the tabs I've highlighted in red in FM20. 

Thing I like: For Next Match only - good if you want to change mentality specifically for a game against a league leader or minnow, but don't want it to be a permanent adjustment to the tactic.

In FM20, during the lead up to kickoff we have this great graphic showing the lineups, uniform colors AND formations:

 

For comparison, here's a real television pre-match screen:

 

Now we have this:

 

No formation,  no headshots; a stark white sheet with a rough font instead. In FM20, you can drill down into any of the players listed if you'd like - cannot do that in FM21. We do now have a simulacrum of social media on the left, which is entirely ignorable (just like real life, or this post - perhaps I'm getting too meta). Oh and we now know who the ref is. Who the ref is is not very important, but it's a nice piece of immersion.

What I like: The match sheet could have an old-timey, authentic feel, especially with lower-league clubs, but it should be in addition to, not in lieu of the formation screen.

Next pre-match screen, the pep talk. In FM20:

Again, clean, easy to read and use. Now FM 21:

I know this has a snowball's chance in hell of being changed as what we're looking at is one of the big 'features' and others have posted about it, but it's cluttered, confusing and an eyesore. Relabeling aggressive, cautious, etc. to thrash arms, point fingers, etc is pretty underwhelming. If you cannot represent the players beyond a box with their name in them (I mean at the very least add the headshots like in dynamics), there's little reason to arrange them in this difficult way to read. I can promise you it does not feel like a locker room with me the manager in the center.

Anyways - we give our pep talk, and onto the match:

In FM20, there's several things to note - first, we have a timeline, if want to rewind or see something again.

We have full club names (even if they're the FM trademark-avoiding version) with logos (when I have the pack installed), which again can be drilled into if you want to easily see the page of the team your playing (or your own).

We have customizable match information allowing yout display what you want, and not what you don't.

We have updates, which allows you to see the live standings. 

We have all the coaching tools on the top, while commentary runs on the bottom.

In FM21:

 

The timeline - where is it? 

The club names are all again in the same harsh font of the team sheet and strangely truncated and without logos. It's a weirdly, self-enforced limitation and makes it less obvious who you're playing. You cannot drill into the names to see. Not an improvement, in fact a decided downgrade. I like to play in unfamiliar leagues and it's not easy to always know who's being played in-match at a glance.

We've completely lost the ability to curate our match information on screen. The tablet is a poor substitute. I'm sure this was 'by design'.

Updates only flash when they change - I have to activate the tablet to see them now, taking up one of two available screens there.

The tactics and subs being adjacent to the commentary is confusing and cluttered. I accept that this may just be an adjustment to make, but the commentary is a lot easier to follow when it's the sole thing on the bottom of the screen. I understand the tactics bar can be minimized, but if you're using it, it'll be visible a fair amount. 

What I like: Not much to be honest, this was the chief driver of me making this post.

What about between highlights? FM20 vs. FM21

I won't even touch the memed-to-death-already passing chart in 'the dugout' but again this is not an improvement. Information is more scattered, less intuitive. My team is still on the bottom, theirs is in formation on the right. What use to be a simple scan across is now similar to the pep talks one of up down over and around. Are you guys trying to limit screen time through sore eyes?

What I like: How much that passing chart made me laugh - I think the sub recommendations are okay but will surely become 'overrun in midfield' tedious. Post Beta Edit: This has been fixed, sort of. 

Finally, let's talk goals and substitutions:

Why are there no headshots with goals? When are you ever going to see them? When you drill into their individual details only? This change is inexplicable to me. Again because the bottom of the screen is now cluttered, it's actually somewhat easy to miss events. In FM20 you have goalscorers and subs prominently at the top. 

I could very well go on further, but this is enough. I realize this may read like a complete trashing, and that's not the goal. I'm obviously a fan of FM and a lot of what is done is positive- FM21 has greater speed and an improved ME which I am a fan of. Would just love a more intuitive design and things to not be so unilaterally removed when there's no demand for it. This isn't even getting into the insistence that there is only one skin (from 3 default last version) that primarily consists of purple and snowblind white. I know people will have different opinions and I welcome them, but to me this new UI/UX is obviously less clear and informative, more click-intensive and graphically worse. I am more tempted than ever to just remain with FM20 than to persist in this purple purgatory but I am hoping some of this can be redressed.

 

Nicely done - very constructive.  They almost look like two different games (different series).  I struggle to think of any computer application in recent years that requires eyes to move so much for so little.

Regarding the purple and white issue - jump to the editors hideaway and download the FM21 dark skin (pinned topic).  It uses the same template, just dark.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Phil930

[Kingstontom88]

Is anyone else experiencing issues with shouts? I make one and it doesn't happen for ages - every time it seems to come after the next highlight which in some cases is too late as we concede.

Last few games I make a shout on minute 83/84 and it doesn't appear until the final highlight when the final whistle goes.

[CaptCanuck]

5 minutes ago, Kingstontom88 said:

Is anyone else experiencing issues with shouts? I make one and it doesn't happen for ages - every time it seems to come after the next highlight which in some cases is too late as we concede.

Last few games I make a shout on minute 83/84 and it doesn't appear until the final highlight when the final whistle goes.

I tend not to use them too much, so my sample size is not great, but I have seen a couple take 10mins or more, and a couple be within a minute. I will try and pay better attention going forward to see if there can be a - steps to reproduce - for it.

[Sharkn20]

10 minutes ago, Kingstontom88 said:

Is anyone else experiencing issues with shouts? I make one and it doesn't happen for ages - every time it seems to come after the next highlight which in some cases is too late as we concede.

Last few games I make a shout on minute 83/84 and it doesn't appear until the final highlight when the final whistle goes.

The shouts reproduce when the ball gets out of bounds, or there is astop in the game like a fault or a goal... So if the opposition or yourself pass the ball for 10 minutes, then the shout won´t happen

[Bielsa1975]

54 minutes ago, Siven said:

I came here to post about how bad the Team talks screen is after playing the game more.

But it seems i dont have to, as it seems many many people share the same opinion.

where is the team talk screen i cant find it on the xbox version 

[SmurfDude]

I hope there are plans to fix the issue with the board being disappointed with every draw or loss. It's bloody annoying being expected to win every match

[Kingstontom88]

50 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

The shouts reproduce when the ball gets out of bounds, or there is astop in the game like a fault or a goal... So if the opposition or yourself pass the ball for 10 minutes, then the shout won´t happen

I suppose that makes sense - but in some way it doesn’t either as the ball would surely never stay in play for 10 straight mins? Either the ball isn’t going out/no stoppages in FM which is pretty unrealistic, or it’s missing some opportunities to make shouts actually happen 

[Leon_fogo]

I'm finding the game very good ... passes and varied plays, I haven't started a new solid game yet ...

But I am really disappointed to have a lot of stuttering on my ME, either in very high or very low graphics quality. Since everything is fast and at FM 2020 I ran the perfect game.
But anyone here feeling lags with Nvidia graphics card?

[RinusFM]

7 minutes ago, Leon_fogo said:

I'm finding the game very good ... passes and varied plays, I haven't started a new solid game yet ...

But I am really disappointed to have a lot of stuttering on my ME, either in very high or very low graphics quality. Since everything is fast and at FM 2020 I ran the perfect game.
But anyone here feeling lags with Nvidia graphics card?

 

Have you tried alt+tab? 

[Leon_fogo]

8 minutes ago, RinusFM said:

 

Have you tried alt+tab? 

As well ? During the game ? Doesn't doing this go back to the desktop screen?

[RinusFM]

10 minutes ago, Leon_fogo said:

As well ? During the game ? Doesn't doing this go back to the desktop screen?

During a match press alt+tab and then alt+tab again and see if the stutters went away. Sometimes I have to press alt+tab and it's all gone. 

[Leon_fogo]

23 minutes ago, RinusFM said:

During a match press alt+tab and then alt+tab again and see if the stutters went away. Sometimes I have to press alt+tab and it's all gone. 

Look, I've already tested everything, changed the graphics card settings, updated the driver, changed settings in the game, put it in window and in full screen, not to mention testing all the graphic quality settings I was testing. I will test this hahahaha

[JordanMilly]

1 hour ago, Leon_fogo said:

But anyone here feeling lags with Nvidia graphics card?

Nope, game runs at 165fps smoothly for me in matches, looks great.

[Leon_fogo]

 

47 minutes ago, RinusFM said:

During a match press alt+tab and then alt+tab again and see if the stutters went away. Sometimes I have to press alt+tab and it's all gone. 

I didn't do anything here ... we really need Sega and SI to see this, I think it is a bad optimization of the game on Nvidia cards because there is no feeling that the game runs perfect on the 20 and 21 not (not even on lower graphics, totally absurd lol)

3 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Nope, game runs at 165fps smoothly for me in matches, looks great.

How can I see this here? 

[JordanMilly]

6 minutes ago, Leon_fogo said:

How can I see this here? 

In Steam itself, go to Settings, then In-Game, then turn on the In-Game FPS Counter.

If you're still having issues, please report them over in the bug forum, and contact SEGA technical support for assistance, as this isn't really the thread for tech support. 

https://community.sigames.com/forum/819-crash-technical-issues-and-game-performance-support-portal/

[Phil930]

34 minutes ago, Leon_fogo said:

Look, I've already tested everything, changed the graphics card settings, updated the driver, changed settings in the game, put it in window and in full screen, not to mention testing all the graphic quality settings I was testing. I will test this hahahaha

Same issue here on a GTX 1080Ti.  No resolution yet. Never had this problem before or with Beta.

[Leon_fogo]

4 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

In Steam itself, go to Settings, then In-Game, then turn on the In-Game FPS Counter.

If you're still having issues, please report them over in the bug forum, and contact SEGA technical support for assistance, as this isn't really the thread for tech support. 

https://community.sigames.com/forum/819-crash-technical-issues-and-game-performance-support-portal/

I'm there already, I believe they are trying to solve this problem ... other than that the game is very good!

[Leon_fogo]

3 minutes ago, Phil930 said:

Same issue here on a GTX 1080Ti.  No resolution yet. Never had this problem before or with Beta.

I'm reporting everything with support and I see other people doing the same, I believe Sega will adjust this in future hot fixes or patches: D

[McClane29]

4 hours ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

so, no one has any info on why the match day UI team abbreviations are so silly and not just three letters??

Find them baffling to be honest.

Either have the club short name or a 2/3 letter abbreviation. Seems like we just have complete randomness without any look of consistency.

[Double Indemnity]

22 minutes ago, McClane29 said:

Find them baffling to be honest.

Either have the club short name or a 2/3 letter abbreviation. Seems like we just have complete randomness without any look of consistency.

I believe there's a mod for this: 

 

I haven't tried it yet myself.

By the way, SI, I'd pay five, maybe ten quid to remove all 3D "backdrops" from the game and replace them with plain black, if you're in the mood to do some cosmetic microtransactions.

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

43 minutes ago, Double Indemnity said:

I believe there's a mod for this: 

 

I haven't tried it yet myself.

By the way, SI, I'd pay five, maybe ten quid to remove all 3D "backdrops" from the game and replace them with plain black, if you're in the mood to do some cosmetic microtransactions.

had no idea about this mod, thanks for the link. unfortunately, it is not save-game compatible. not a knock against this mod, as this is something SI should have done in the first place. hopefully something official comes down the line that won't involve throwing away 5 years of in-game time!

[Nick_CB]

Can anyone answer me if the heat map is on the improvement list? I can't accurately identify my players' individual positioning, the heat map doesn't make any sense

[SmurfDude]

5 hours ago, santy001 said:

Mods have no involvement so we can't really offer any commentary on why the UI changes the way it does. Personally I disliked the UI at first because it was different, over time I'm adjusting. I don't think its even a case of saying I necessarily preferred the old layout or the new layout I was just more familiar with it. I still mostly miss the split view I used to use several years back, that was my personal preference.

The ME is something that has more tangible information provided, via patch notes and stuff. So you'll tend to notice we will largely reframe the official information provided by SI when someone is making a point that is in contradiction to that information.

It's a feedback thread, not a Q&A thread. Whether you like or dislike an aspect is perfectly valid feedback. However, that feedback doesn't necessitate a response from developers. Funnily enough when you say "Well, I like/dislike X" the most likely reaction is that someone will read it and be like "Well, this person likes/dislikes X" and there is no further conversation required on that. 

Ultimately the process is pretty straight forward. My understanding is that this thread is a conduit for SI to collate information and feedback into the development process moving forward. It isn't inviting you in to be consulted on the development of the game, merely a process through which your opinions can in turn be passed on to the relevant developers. 

If SI had any sense they would consult us before they begin development on each new version. Otherwise they run the risk of creating a game that they want, and not a game that their customers want. The UI overhaul they decided to do is a perfect example of this.

[upthetoon]

Anyhow having problems with balls over the top? This is a lower league Romanian league 2 AI match. I've scored goals and conceded goals like this very often. 

a ball over the top and the defense just stays static or hover where they are standing while the striker latches on to it for a shot.