Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

[witticism]

Has anyone else noticed teams in view-only leagues refusing to hire managers? because I swear every team I have faced in CL is managerless, or at best have an awful regen manager for no apparent reason?

[MatthewS17]

Feeling a bit FM20-ish all over again. Great promise in the beta, a step back in the full release.

Whereas in the beta I saw a few cutbacks from the goal line, it seems my wide players are now reminiscent of last year where dribbling from wide positions and shooting at impossible angles is the norm. 

Everything going wide and square seems massively dominant again. However, tbf I'm not sure how I feel about this. Still seeing the odd through ball, but I'm also seeing my wing back rack up an insane number of key passes, which shows the over emphasis on the wide aspects again. 

The beta had felt like it got the balance right. The only issues for me were defenders having incredible brainless moments and running into each other from balls over the top(which is still happening) and wing backs not tracking their man(which is still happening).

Starting to feel like a blocking fest and sideways passing festival all over again. 

Don't get me wrong, it's miles ahead of FM20. But what I saw in the beta gave me more feeling for the game than the experience I'm having now. 

[LolloViola]

few days with the full release and I genuinely don't understand those who say "it's too easy": I always start in 3rd/4rd tier with lowest teams and there's not a single match where you can just sit and watch. Actually, I'm kinda struggling to make my team play as I want - I absolutely refuse to plug and play tactics - but I'm really enjoying "ME-related" challenge, especially after the disastrous FM20.

But...

- I still think that UI changes are not understandable and I'm absolutely not getting used to it after > 60 hrs playing: even on my small 13" screen I have to look around just to read lines and lines of text, ie. during press conference: just a bit of fantasy and few more sentences or questions with the old and beloved graphic and the whole FM community would have been happy.
- I really can't stand having to reduce my 2D pitch just to make it fit during match day, leaving those useless side columns. Would be enough to have AT LEAST the bottom bar hiding and showing up automatically instead of buttons and buttons to click; now's too difficult even recognizing that a player is injured.
- Match day, I turn my head to the phone for a second and I lost a booking, a free kick, a perfect wide-play from my Regista... and I can't immediately go few seconds back just to look at it. Seriously?!
- I'd love to have the opportunity to not have ANY 3D background.
- Genuinely asking: was it really necessary to have "body language" in the game? I absolutely find no difference at all using it or not and I even find some cases where text and reaction seem completely opposite, but maybe it's a translation bug. After a bit I stopped using it, btw.

I'd end up for sure putting in 1000 hrs or more in it like every year since I don't remember when, I'm just waiting for youth intakes to be patched to start my long lasting save game; atm I feel like this really is an enormous waste of good potential: let's say like having a -9 sitting on the bench for the whole season  

Edited December 1, 2020 by LolloViola

[Domoboy23]

How are people finding dribbling? Hope there's some Mazy runs going on!

[kiwityke]

2 hours ago, Double Indemnity said:

This is such a tired, trite comparison between the leagues. Never mind that Pogba played in 40 Champions League games for Juve.

Yes so tired and trite yet unerringly accurate. Weird that you also tend to get a bit more space in the champions league than  you do in the Premier League. Also weirdly where his better games have come for Utd...funny that.

[RinusFM]

Dribbling.. Often they dribble, dribble, dribble, but forgot to pass or to shoot, lol. 

[Fabregas_04]

1 hour ago, Double Indemnity said:

Just to illustrate some of the UI complaints with an example.

In the screenshot, I've highlighted where my eye naturally falls in red; it's where it's led by the perspective of the scene. Meanwhile, things I will need to read or potentially interact with are in green. The yellow overlay is unused dead space. I'm playing on a 27" 1440p monitor, and my eye has to traverse all of the yellow to find the things in green, which are laid out in ways that defy reading order or any eye-tracking research I'm aware of. I have to go from the red to the green box to the green circles, read through the rote text, select one, then go back to continue in the top right (which, again, defies convention; most confirm prompts in most UI design sit in the bottom right because that's where readers finish). And that's a best-case scenario. If I want to do anything else, I have to go to the far corners of the screen or dig into other menus to find information not available on this screen, the overwhelming expanse of which is wasted.

And why is it wasted? To fit in a 3D "backdrop" of the corner of a flatly lit office with a drop ceiling and some cabling on the wall. And a "Football Manager" step and repeat that reminds me I'm playing a videogame called Football Manager, in case I'd forgotten. I guess the idea here is that I, the manager, am standing in front of this and being interviewed by James Mitchell? But why is James Mitchell represented, in 2D space, as being in front of the step and repeat, while I, the manger, am at the bottom of the screen? There is a 2D schematic of our conversation that is completely at odds with the pointless, gamey 3D depiction of it. I had to leave other, useful information behind to get to this full-screen presentation. Now consider how this conversation is depicted (up and down) versus every single conversation you've ever seen represented in, say, a messaging app, or social media DMs, all of which acknowledge that people read from left to right and from top to bottom, and that real-life conversations happen in lateral space.

The best user experience I can hope for here is that if I see this screen often enough—and I'll see it 50+ times a season!—I'll get good at clicking through it really fast by learning an algorithmic set of approaches to press questions, same as in previous years. But the act of reading and clicking on things is now harder and less intuitive than it was before, and I am far more conscious that I'm playing a videogame than I was in the past.

Quality post

[kiwityke]

1 hour ago, Double Indemnity said:

Just to illustrate some of the UI complaints with an example.

In the screenshot, I've highlighted where my eye naturally falls in red; it's where it's led by the perspective of the scene. Meanwhile, things I will need to read or potentially interact with are in green. The yellow overlay is unused dead space. I'm playing on a 27" 1440p monitor, and my eye has to traverse all of the yellow to find the things in green, which are laid out in ways that defy reading order or any eye-tracking research I'm aware of. I have to go from the red to the green box to the green circles, read through the rote text, select one, then go back to continue in the top right (which, again, defies convention; most confirm prompts in most UI design sit in the bottom right because that's where readers finish). And that's a best-case scenario. If I want to do anything else, I have to go to the far corners of the screen or dig into other menus to find information not available on this screen, the overwhelming expanse of which is wasted.

And why is it wasted? To fit in a 3D "backdrop" of the corner of a flatly lit office with a drop ceiling and some cabling on the wall. And a "Football Manager" step and repeat that reminds me I'm playing a videogame called Football Manager, in case I'd forgotten. I guess the idea here is that I, the manager, am standing in front of this and being interviewed by James Mitchell? But why is James Mitchell represented, in 2D space, as being in front of the step and repeat, while I, the manger, am at the bottom of the screen? There is a 2D schematic of our conversation that is completely at odds with the pointless, gamey 3D depiction of it. I had to leave other, useful information behind to get to this full-screen presentation. Now consider how this conversation is depicted (up and down) versus every single conversation you've ever seen represented in, say, a messaging app, or social media DMs, all of which acknowledge that people read from left to right and from top to bottom, and that real-life conversations happen in lateral space.

The best user experience I can hope for here is that if I see this screen often enough—and I'll see it 50+ times a season!—I'll get good at clicking through it really fast by learning an algorithmic set of approaches to press questions, same as in previous years. But the act of reading and clicking on things is now harder and less intuitive than it was before, and I am far more conscious that I'm playing a videogame than I was in the past.

Its even worse than this because the parts in green will move around the screen as and when new text pops up. Sometimes changing place as many as 8 or 9 times depending on how many Qs there are.

The pointless and fairly naff background however that attracts your attention stays the same.

I'm kind of convinced however that the UI is designed so badly so that it highlights the 3D backgrounds and a misguided attempt to recreate the feel of questions coming from all over a room! 

If it meant I didn't get massive eye strain I could really live without em.

It rather reduces than  increases immersion but seeing as the God awful revamp of staff responsibilities is still in the game I expect this is the norm for the next few years.

[kiwityke]

22 minutes ago, RinusFM said:

Dribbling.. Often they dribble, dribble, dribble, but forgot to pass or to shoot, lol. 

But occasionally they spank it in to the top corner or do a really sexy through ball...my left inverted-winger just dribbled in between 2 players cutting inside and spanked one in to the bottom corner man it looked good.

[damjanovski]

Do you think that strikers with high pace attribute are overpowered?

[iAlwaysWin]

This is why i hate when people brand the game to easy and how the Ai sucks, because i've had it quite easy for 3 seasons as Juventus, as you would expect and then out of nowhere my form has dropped slightly and you now got Inter Milan who are stupidly overpowered in the league.

Not really going to complain that much as we have won 12 straight league titles and got to lose one sometime to keep it interesting.

Also ran into a few super keepers this season, haven't seen them make appearance in FM since like before 2010 lol.

Edited December 1, 2020 by iAlwaysWin

[Double Indemnity]

More fun with UI/UX, this time in a match:

There are four ways to meaningfully affect how the match engine screen displays. They are in ... four different corners of the screen. So I've pointed them out with arrows!

In the top left, we can hide or unhide the Match Stats and Notable Events panel. This wasn't clear to me initially, because the blue icon is a little hard to parse at 1440p and uses no familiar interactable iconography. You cannot customize this Match Stats panel as you could in the past (more on that in a second!), and you cannot shrink or adjust the size of the Notable Events section, even though it takes up a huge chunk of dead space. Clicking on the team names or clock also controls this panel, rather than, say, taking you to a team screen or pausing the clock.

In the bottom left, there's a (hugely important) expand button for Tactics & Subs that gives you access to in-detail stuff. It's kind of buried at the end of an eye scan, which is weird. Also, once you expand this panel, you have to close it by clicking cancel in the bottom right, which is another long journey for the eye and the mouse. Almost none of the other interactions use this sequence! You cannot click the button twice to collapse the expand, even if you didn't take any actions; likewise, you can't click in the open space above the expanded panel. This panel also re-animates every time you click a tab (Tactics, Player, Set Pieces, etc.), which is a bizarre and disorienting choice. The distance from the tabs in the top left to the cancel button in the bottom right is, again, a screen width.

In the top right, you have your match speed, viewing options, play/pause stuff. There's actually a nearly hidden bar that allows you to record, rewind time, etc. ... though it's divorced from the game clock in the top left, and the absence of a timeline reduces player control overall. All of these options are uncoupled from all the information panels that would cause you to interact with them.

In the bottom right, you can hide the Tactics & Subs panel, even though it uses the same coloration as the SUBS button below it, which actually flicks between substitutes and players on the pitch (unhelpfully labeled "PITCH" rather than "ON PITCH" or "PLAYING"). This may just be me, but I found the label inconsistent with what's being shown: at a glance, I thought it was showing subs when SUBS was the label; it's the reverse. You can also show/hide the Touchline Tablet here ... provided a highlight is playing. If a highlight is not playing, the icon stays there but no longer hides the window, which feels bad. In general, the game does a poor job of distinguishing between "in highlight" and "not in highlight" than it used to, though the motion graphic in the top left is appreciated.

Some questions:

• Why are these four discrete interactable areas not combined as tabs or better arranged to minimize eye and mouse movement?
• Why are they so poorly labeled?
• Why do they all use different and internally contradictory interactions?
• Why does the interaction icon for "Tactics & Subs" work differently than the interaction icon for "Instructions" even though they're the same icon?
• Why, if I open a Shouts panel, am I able to click outside it to cancel, but can't do that with Instructions or Tactics & Subs, even if I haven't made any changes?
• Why do some of these icons lose functionality in different game states?
• Why are there no hover states or tooltips for these buttons?
• Why are there no keyboard shortcuts? If there are keyboard shortcuts I'm not aware of, why are they not shown to the player?
• Does a new user know to use spacebar to play/pause? How?

Let's turn to that Touchline Tablet, which basically lets you blob some (not all) of the old widgets and rearrange them. It's on the far right of the screen, past a lot of dead space (highlighted in yellow), including the wasted notable events space and wasted "dugout" space that rarely populates (and sometimes vanishes before you can act on it). My eye frequently has to "read" past these blank spaces.

Vitally, I cannot drag or rearrange these panels, which is a major step back from previous versions, and the panels pay no respect to higher resolutions; I cannot even resize Match Stats or The Dugout. Also, if I see something actionable on the Touchline Tablet, my eye and mouse now have to jerk all the way back to the bottom left to make adjustments. Some of what's in this screen is redundant or unhelpful. It duplicates player information shown in the bottom bar (albeit in a much more readable list format)! It duplicates match stats! Yes, it lets you customize them, but you won't see that customization reflected in the top left, because someone at SI has decreed that the customization and flexibility present in earlier versions has to go in favor of a "realistic" touchline tablet that is anything but realistic.

So we're left with an active impediment to clarity that fights the user's eye and is uncoupled from the actions you might take in response to it, which are scattered in the corners of the screen. And because this is the defined vertical height and layout of the panel, you frequently have to scroll information within the panel because you can't pop out or resize the information as discrete panels. Again, you used to be able to do this! It was granular and great!

Some bonus questions:

• Why are the team names shortened at higher resolutions? It seems unnecessary.
• Why is game speed set to max by default in FM21?
• Why do left clicks on the subs product menus similar to right-click menus throughout the rest of the game? Meanwhile, right clicks here do nothing?
• When I'm viewing my substitutes, why does clicking them do nothing? Shouldn't I at least be able to select "Substitute On"?
• Why is Notable Events not available in the Touchline Tablet? If I use the (superior) Match Stats panel available the tablet, I can't turn off the leftmost panel without losing the events.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Double Indemnity

[kiwityke]

23 minutes ago, Double Indemnity said:

More fun with UI/UX, this time in a match:

There are four ways to meaningfully affect how the match engine screen displays. They are in ... four different corners of the screen. So I've pointed them out with arrows!

In the top left, we can hide or unhide the Match Stats and Notable Events panel. This wasn't clear to me initially, because the blue icon is a little hard to parse at 1440p and uses no familiar interactable iconography. You cannot customize this Match Stats panel as you could in the past (more on that in a second!), and you cannot shrink or adjust the size of the Notable Events section, even though it takes up a huge chunk of dead space. Clicking on the team names or clock also controls this panel, rather than, say, taking you to a team screen or pausing the clock.

In the bottom left, there's a (hugely important) expand button for Tactics & Subs that gives you access to in-detail stuff. It's kind of buried at the end of an eye scan, which is weird. Also, once you expand this panel, you have to close it by clicking cancel in the bottom right, which is another long journey for the eye and the mouse. Almost none of the other interactions use this sequence! You cannot click the button twice to collapse the expand, even if you didn't take any actions; likewise, you can't click in the open space above the expanded panel. This panel also re-animates every time you click a tab (Tactics, Player, Set Pieces, etc.), which is a bizarre and disorienting choice. The distance from the tabs in the top left to the cancel button in the bottom right is, again, a screen width.

In the top right, you have your match speed, viewing options, play/pause stuff. There's actually a nearly hidden bar that allows you to record, rewind time, etc. ... though it's divorced from the game clock in the top left, and the absence of a timeline reduces player control overall. All of these options are uncoupled from all the information panels that would cause you to interact with them.

In the bottom right, you can hide the Tactics & Subs panel, even though it uses the same coloration as the SUBS button below it, which actually flicks between substitutes and players on the pitch (unhelpfully labeled "PITCH" rather than "ON PITCH" or "PLAYING"). This may just be me, but I found the label inconsistent with what's being shown: at a glance, I thought it was showing subs when SUBS was the label; it's the reverse. You can also show/hide the Touchline Tablet here ... provided a highlight is playing. If a highlight is not playing, the icon stays there but no longer hides the window, which feels bad. In general, the game does a poor job of distinguishing between "in highlight" and "not in highlight" than it used to, though the motion graphic in the top left is appreciated.

Some questions:

• Why are these four discrete interactable areas not combined as tabs or better arranged to minimize eye and mouse movement?
• Why are they so poorly labeled?
• Why do they all use different and internally contradictory interactions?
• Why does the interaction icon for "Tactics & Subs" work differently than the interaction icon for "Instructions" even though they're the same icon?
• Why, if I open a Shouts panel, am I able to click outside it to cancel, but can't do that with Instructions or Tactics & Subs, even if I haven't made any changes?
• Why do some of these icons lose functionality in different game states?
• Why are there no hover states or tooltips for these buttons?
• Why are there no keyboard shortcuts? If there are keyboard shortcuts I'm not aware of, why are they not shown to the player?
• Does a new user know to use spacebar to play/pause? How?

Let's turn to that Touchline Tablet, which basically lets you blob some (not all) of the old widgets and rearrange them. It's on the far right of the screen, past a lot of dead space (highlighted in yellow), including the wasted notable events space and wasted "dugout" space that rarely populates (and sometimes vanishes before you can act on it). My eye frequently has to "read" past these blank spaces.

Vitally, I cannot drag or rearrange these panels, which is a major step back from previous versions, and the panels pay no respect to higher resolutions; I cannot even resize Match Stats or The Dugout. Also, if I see something actionable on the Touchline Tablet, my eye and mouse now have to jerk all the way back to the bottom left to make adjustments. Some of what's in this screen is redundant or unhelpful. It duplicates player information shown in the bottom bar (albeit in a much more readable list format)! It duplicates match stats! Yes, it lets you customize them, but you won't see that customization reflected in the top left, because someone at SI has decreed that the customization and flexibility present in earlier versions has to go in favor of a "realistic" touchline tablet that is anything but realistic.

So we're left with an active impediment to clarity that fights the user's eye and is uncoupled from the actions you might take in response to it, which are scattered in the corners of the screen. And because this is the defined vertical height and layout of the panel, you frequently have to scroll information within the panel because you can't pop out or resize the information as discrete panels. Again, you used to be able to do this! It was granular and great!

Some bonus questions:

• Why are the team names shortened at higher resolutions? It seems unnecessary.
• Why is game speed set to max by default in FM21?
• Why do left clicks on the subs product menus similar to right-click menus throughout the rest of the game? Meanwhile, right clicks here do nothing?
• When I'm viewing my substitutes, why does clicking them do nothing? Shouldn't I at least be able to select "Substitute On"?
• Why is Notable Events not available in the Touchline Tablet? If I use the (superior) Match Stats panel available the tablet, I can't turn off the leftmost panel without losing the events.

I didnt even realize the top left button existed until this post...

[Pav_Makarov]

The lack of yellow cards highlights is extremely annoying. I play on comprehensive and I have not seen a single highlight of my players being booked in the last two games and it's near to impossible to track when this happens. I watch the game attentively, but in this mess of between highlights screen the moment of booking is just not seen. It's just BOOM and you realise you have two players booked. Of course you can view it via notable events, but this whole thing rips you out of game's context. Very maddening,

Do you think I should post it to bugs section? 

[Pav_Makarov]

8 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

I didnt even realize the top left button existed until this post

you never realise anything with this UI untill someones says it's there or you stumble upon it, lol

[kertiek]

2 hours ago, Domoboy23 said:

How are people finding dribbling? Hope there's some Mazy runs going on!

there is a few bug reports about dribbling and them being almost non existant in the current match engine, si games still does not give an answer in any of multiple threads reporting this problem.

[Pav_Makarov]

FFS, three bookings and I haven't seen a single one of them. This is ridiculous

[JordanMilly]

2 hours ago, MatthewS17 said:

Feeling a bit FM20-ish all over again. Great promise in the beta, a step back in the full release.

Whereas in the beta I saw a few cutbacks from the goal line, it seems my wide players are now reminiscent of last year where dribbling from wide positions and shooting at impossible angles is the norm. 

Everything going wide and square seems massively dominant again. However, tbf I'm not sure how I feel about this. Still seeing the odd through ball, but I'm also seeing my wing back rack up an insane number of key passes, which shows the over emphasis on the wide aspects again. 

The beta had felt like it got the balance right. The only issues for me were defenders having incredible brainless moments and running into each other from balls over the top(which is still happening) and wing backs not tracking their man(which is still happening).

Starting to feel like a blocking fest and sideways passing festival all over again. 

Don't get me wrong, it's miles ahead of FM20. But what I saw in the beta gave me more feeling for the game than the experience I'm having now. 

Per the previous posts by @Jack Joyce, those weren't changed in the match engine from the beta to the full game, and were already in the beta (and is something they're working on at present for a future patch).

[kiwityke]

17 minutes ago, Pav_Makarov said:

you never realise anything with this UI untill someones says it's there or you stumble upon it, lol

Yep this is the most stripped down FM I've played in years stats and everything but ME wise (its still great don't ruin it) mainly because I have no idea where the brains trust who design the UI has hidden it. When I do find it, I find its no longer in a user friendly form.

[MBarbaric]

I won't harp on the UI as others have done great job already, I just want to add that on ultrawide monitor, which should be perfect for these kind of games, it is even worse than on 1080p. The ammount of space that is empty on 3440x1440 is absolutely criminal. Shifting eyes from one corner to another is labourous not to mention mouse movement involved. Utter disgrace. hope they sort this out. Whenver I think I have time to play the game I immediately remember myself I have no time for eye excercise so I just go and do something else. The game is unhealthy for all the wrong reasons. 

[Pav_Makarov]

2 minutes ago, kiwityke said:

Yep this is the most stripped down FM I've played in years stats and everything but ME wise (its still great don't ruin it) mainly because I have no idea where the brains trust who design the UI has hidden it. When I do find it, I find its no longer in a user friendly form.

It's not only stripped down it forces a user to make an enormous amount of extra steps. For example if you go from a match to tactics you are thrown on a screen where instructions and positions are not shown, you have to click on an arrow (first you have to find it of course) to expand it, but once you'vr done your changes you can't go back to the game, first you have to get  back to initial tactic screen. That's an extra action

Or when you are asked a question you can't just pick an answer, first you initiate a pop-up, then you give an answe and then you click on finishing the conversation. That's two extra actions

I'm not trying to teach SI team how to build interfaces, but I have a side qualification in UX/UI and in this case I find it annoying and unnecessary

 

[kiwityke]

2 minutes ago, Pav_Makarov said:

It's not only stripped down it forces a user to make an enormous amount of extra steps. For example if you go from a match to tactics you are thrown on a screen where instructions and positions are not shown, you have to click on an arrow (first you have to find it of course) to expand it, but once you'vr done your changes you can't go back to the game, first you have to get  back to initial tactic screen. That's an extra action

Or when you are asked a question you can't just pick an answer, first you initiate a pop-up, then you give an answe and then you click on finishing the conversation. That's two extra actions

I'm not trying to teach SI team how to build interfaces, but I have a side qualification in UX/UI and in this case I find it annoying and unnecessary

 

I have no qualifications in either but even I know this UI and UX breaks all the rules of good UI and UX. To the point I cant believe nobody internally went "yeah this is rubbish" because it really is on the verge of unusable as far as UI goes. 

So much extra clicking. So many screens that add literally nothing and I wouldn't miss if you got rid. So much wasted space on screens I really do need. So much important info hidden behind screens behind a screen behind 3 other screens. With important info in various spots around various different screens.

[Dronx]

One thing I’ve noticed tonight after I noticed that my under 23’s lose every week is that they play a goalkeeper outfield in every game and sub him off at half time. 

[LolloViola]

3 minuti fa, Dronx ha scritto:

One thing I’ve noticed tonight after I noticed that my under 23’s lose every week is that they play a goalkeeper outfield in every game and sub him off at half time. 

hope springs eternal.

[hagedisboy]

Another thing that really annoys me, when you’ve finished a game and you click on the result in your inbox, you don’t see the players’ stats anymore so I have no idea who to compliment for their finishing, chances created, defending, etc... I just want the FM20 UI back. 

[GOODNAME]

2 minutes ago, hagedisboy said:

Another thing that really annoys me, when you’ve finished a game and you click on the result in your inbox, you don’t see the players’ stats anymore so I have no idea who to compliment for their finishing, chances created, defending, etc... I just want the FM20 UI back. 

I hate it when i want to check who got the assist and i need to focus to know which line is the player who got the assist 

[Bojanbbz94]

I'm not sure if this is really the right place to post this (feel free to move or delete if not!). I've played one full season on FM21 now, starting during  the beta, and I am really enjoying it. The match engine is definitely a significant improvement on the last few editions. 

But I really find some of the 'club visions' that the board try to impose at the end of the season to be quite odd and (if I am honest) a little immersion breaking; I have felt this way for a couple of editions tbh, but I thought I'd post about it this year.

To give a concrete example from this year. I am managing Stoke. At the start of the save, the visions are: develop youth players/play attacking football/play possession football/sign under 22s/worth within the wage budget. These feel fine, and (broadly speaking) the sort of things that the Stoke board have attempted to implement irl since Pulis left way back in 2013.

I have won promotion in my first season, and the board are now trying to implement a whole raft of new visions, screenshots attached. It feels very inflexible and odd. I know I will be able to remove some of them in negotiations, but because of the sheer number of them I know I won't be able to remove all the ones I don't want.
Some of them essentially contradict each other too. The demand to 'sign players 22 and under' has been replaced with 'sign players 23 and under', which is fine but it just feels like the game is replacing one very specific and arbitrary cut-off age for another (maybe something like 'sign players in their early 20s and younger' would be better?). They now trying to impose that I sign high-reputation players, but also that I continue to develop players using the youth system and sell players for profit; sign high-reputation players generally come at a premium, I feel like it should be one or the other. They want me to play exciting, attacking football, but also want me to 'make the most of set pieces'; maybe this isn't inherently contradictory, but I (and I presume a lot of people) associate them with two different footballing philosophies. I'm not bothered by the demand to not sign players over 30, but given that Stoke's big summer signings irl were Steven Fletcher and Jon Obi Mikel (both 33), I'm not sure it feels right.

I know a lot of these have a very low 'importance' set to them, and might not massively alter the way I play this save, but I still don't think it feels very natural. I have overachieved in winning promotion, and I signed a new contract the week before the last game of the season. I really don't think that in that scenario, the board are going to sit down with a manager at the end of the season and say "yeah, it's fantastic that you have won us promotion and everything, but we're going to start judging you on how many goals we score from corners from now on. Although we don't expect you to stay in the stop flight, we really want you to play entertaining, high-tempo pressing football every week".

I feels as though you are punished for being successful if the board start trying to formalise the way you play as part of a wider 'club vision', and it makes it feel as though I don't necessarily have the scope to be pragmatic.

I feel as though less is more with club culture, it seems interesting and engaging when there are a small number of specific things that the board want to form an overarching identify around. If the AI is going to impose multiple handfuls of demands on how they want me to play, it feels much more rigid and unrealistic.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Bojanbbz94

[Bosey82]

I bought the Xbox edition. Have to say I'm really disappointed. There's a lot missing from the PC version and maybe I should have know that. But the controller and mouse arrow are no replacement for your hand and a proper mouse. No real team interaction at all on match day. It really just a select your team and play format. What I was looking forward to was the ME thinking that the console version would feel a bit more FIFA-ish with the player bigger. But it's no different to when I Apple Play my desktop onto my big screen. It's hard to really see the action unless you are sitting up close. The PC version is the way to go.

[WHUkain21]

I am playing this game 14 years. I pay attention to every detail and it is a huge part of my life, my past and future. After so many years you created a perfect match engine. It was so nice to play Beta and watch games, way that team was passing, scoring, assisting, behaved in defence. I was speaking with everyone in our Serbian fm community, and promoting this new fm. 

 

And then i updated it to a full version and once again i have a feeling that i play the worst fm ever and that is fm20. Everything is the same. My striker can score and i achieve good results that is not the problem. But simply i have a feeling that result are randomly, that attributes don't reflect on the field, same as tactical instructions. I checked top goalscorers in top 5 european leagues no one scored more that 15? No way this is real. Can't see beautyful actions, lobs, placed shots, killer balls like in beta. You just destroyed everything and honestly i can't see any reason why. I know that all comments were positive about beta, just why you changed anything when everything was perfect? Now this is a completly new game, and all experinced players have the same feeling. 

 

Stay strong guys, hugs from Serbia, but i just don't have strenght anymore  for bad match engines and for all hopes and expectations... 

Edited December 2, 2020 by WHUkain21

[dannyrefc]

what can i say that hasnt 

ui is terrible 

match engine was good in beta , now awful as per usual 

yeah , fm hey 🤷‍♂️😂 typical oh well. 

[FCP_Football]

Paid £39 for this, feel like I paid that just for an updated database. If you mostly play touch and have fm2020 skip this. Why does touch not have the updated stats from scisports or I'm I blind?.

Knew I would feel ripped off buying this. They have added everything possible now most new additions are either small or features that just add bloat to the game. Start just releasing a paid transfer update and a full version every second year.

I remember the game used to be £28 quid brand new with loads of new features what happened?.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by FCP_Football

[kiwityke]

5 hours ago, Bojanbbz94 said:

I'm not sure if this is really the right place to post this (feel free to move or delete if not!). I've played one full season on FM21 now, starting during  the beta, and I am really enjoying it. The match engine is definitely a significant improvement on the last few editions. 

But I really find some of the 'club visions' that the board try to impose at the end of the season to be quite odd and (if I am honest) a little immersion breaking; I have felt this way for a couple of editions tbh, but I thought I'd post about it this year.

To give a concrete example from this year. I am managing Stoke. At the start of the save, the visions are: develop youth players/play attacking football/play possession football/sign under 22s/worth within the wage budget. These feel fine, and (broadly speaking) the sort of things that the Stoke board have attempted to implement irl since Pulis left way back in 2013.

I have won promotion in my first season, and the board are now trying to implement a whole raft of new visions, screenshots attached. It feels very inflexible and odd. I know I will be able to remove some of them in negotiations, but because of the sheer number of them I know I won't be able to remove all the ones I don't want.
Some of them essentially contradict each other too. The demand to 'sign players 22 and under' has been replaced with 'sign players 23 and under', which is fine but it just feels like the game is replacing one very specific and arbitrary cut-off age for another (maybe something like 'sign players in their early 20s and younger' would be better?). They now trying to impose that I sign high-reputation players, but also that I continue to develop players using the youth system and sell players for profit; sign high-reputation players generally come at a premium, I feel like it should be one or the other. They want me to play exciting, attacking football, but also want me to 'make the most of set pieces'; maybe this isn't inherently contradictory, but I (and I presume a lot of people) associate them with two different footballing philosophies. I'm not bothered by the demand to not sign players over 30, but given that Stoke's big summer signings irl were Steven Fletcher and Jon Obi Mikel (both 33), I'm not sure it feels right.

I know a lot of these have a very low 'importance' set to them, and might not massively alter the way I play this save, but I still don't think it feels very natural. I have overachieved in winning promotion, and I signed a new contract the week before the last game of the season. I really don't think that in that scenario, the board are going to sit down with a manager at the end of the season and say "yeah, it's fantastic that you have won us promotion and everything, but we're going to start judging you on how many goals we score from corners from now on. Although we don't expect you to stay in the stop flight, we really want you to play entertaining, high-tempo pressing football every week".

I feels as though you are punished for being successful if the board start trying to formalise the way you play as part of a wider 'club vision', and it makes it feel as though I don't necessarily have the scope to be pragmatic.

I feel as though less is more with club culture, it seems interesting and engaging when there are a small number of specific things that the board want to form an overarching identify around. If the AI is going to impose multiple handfuls of demands on how they want me to play, it feels much more rigid and unrealistic.

They've almost certainly added utilize set pieces or however it is named because you scored a lot of goals from set pieces last season. I've found over both FM20 and FM22 that board just adopt your tactics as their vision as long as your successful.

My board have "repair the finances of the club" as a club vision  so of course they instantly raised the wage budget by about 25%, RAISED not cut...clearly at odds with its own vision.

[Gee_Simpson]

44 minutes ago, FCP_Football said:

Paid £39 for this, feel like I paid that just for an updated database. If you mostly play touch and have fm2020 skip this. Why does touch not have the updated stats from scisports or I'm I blind?.

Knew I would feel ripped off buying this. They have added everything possible now most new additions are either small or features that just add bloat to the game. Start just releasing a paid transfer update and a full version every second year.

I remember the game used to be £28 quid brand new with loads of new features what happened?.

 

 

It's literally £28 on ShopTo right now. I actually got it for £25 from there.

[Allen1982]

I'm managing England and Harry Kane with Finishing 19, Composure 18 and Penalties 20 has now missed 5 penalties in a row..........I'm not sure that's ok. 

[Svenc]

13 minutes ago, Allen1982 said:

I'm managing England and Harry Kane with Finishing 19, Composure 18 and Penalties 20 has now missed 5 penalties in a row..........I'm not sure that's ok. 

That's XCOM Baby.  

(Assuming the average chance of scoring was a very decent 85%, missing five in a row would be a 1 in 13.000 chance. Long odds, but not quite akin to winning the lottery either. Over thousands of players, it should occur quite regularly. Only if SI were to ever hardcode that on x misses, the next kick is always a goal, wouldn't this occur.)

Edited December 2, 2020 by Svenc

[jc1]

Well done SI for listening to it's punters, ME is so much better than FM20 better creativity, 1v1, passing, goal variations and players playing in the style I want them to play. Still get the odd gaff from a player but it looks more honest than a bug. Team talks and press are much better with more variety of answers and expressions, so all in all a bid thumbs up from me so far just please don't go spoiling all that hard work by tweaking the ME in future updates, I can enjoy the FM series again.

[CaptCanuck]

I don't want to pile on, really I don't, but the ux/interaction design is simply poor throughout and is some places embarrassing and not something that should have found its way into a GA version of commercial software.

Doesn't matter if it's a game and not some mission critical business software, I know people are behind these things we spend hours enjoying or trying to enjoy, but seriously nothing that was properly designed and QA'd could be in the state this UI is in. I doubt I have seen all that's already been posted here, I have seen quite a few though, but really :-S

It looks like the use of real estate for how press conferences, interviews, and contract negotiation screens has been covered. You simply don't have a ring of questions at the top, with responses at the bottom, and a giant void in the middle. You're only making it harder for the user to logically engage with the menus. The static background of a room doesn't add anything to the immersion. From an interaction/info architecture POV, Pressers and interviews are simply drop-down menus with choices available for the user to select. No list of values should be divorced from their parent/subject by 3/4s of a page.

In a match I don't get how there is no consistency in how to close the windows. Contextual and/or independent floating windows that may be displayed from... well... over here and down there... oh hey! And there too. There's no central structure tying any of it together in any logical manner based on theme, subject, or use case. I don't think anyone wants an easter egg hunt. They want to press the left BPD and show him onto his opposite foot.

And why is there a popout window option for the XG, when it can all fit on the original panel it is in? The couple sentences of commentary don't add anything, and the shot legend and breakdown can easily fit in the existing space. Was this a licensing issue and needing to get SCISPORTS featured? Fair enough, but why not just have it on the original panel too?

 

And I really don't understand why there is not an [X] button in the top of every window. Why on the Analytics Data window do I have to click [OK] down in the bottom right, but in the XG windows I get an X? Is that the result of some integration connector from SCISPORTS? Again great, but why not put an x on the other windows. Not only for consistencies sake, but in the Statistics window, the stats dropdown list and switching between team tabs is all done at the top, it's natural for the user to slide across the top to an [X] to close the window. Especially in a window that is display only and has no actions to confirm.

And I guess it will stay open once you first click on it, but why would someone want the red arrow subset option, that also obscures all the players, versus the fill tactic window you get clicking 'Tactics'?

And maybe this is user error - I'm not the brightest spark - but once you click on Tactics in the bottom left of that previous window, how do you get back to the stats and analytics? My only option now is "Dressing Room". There's no back or cancel... or [X] ;-) Maybe it's my screen resolution, I will check that and see.

Ugh but yes now I am just the next whingebag banging on about the UI, but really it's because all the examples in all the pages and posts here genuinely detract from the game and needs to be addressed whenever a major patch is released.

[Double0Seven]

4 hours ago, dannyrefc said:

what can i say that hasnt 

ui is terrible 

match engine was good in beta , now awful as per usual 

yeah , fm hey 🤷‍♂️😂 typical oh well. 

I find it funny how people think the ME changed when SI has already stated multiple times almost nothing changed. What change do you see that made it awful and do you have any statistics to support that? Wouldn't be so hard to find stats to support it if you think the ME changed that much. 

[luka_zg]

Why are my scouts unable to find any left backs? I am Barcelona and I have great scouts and I put them to search for a leftback in the recruitment meeting of current ability 3.5 stars and potential 4.5 stars and they came back after a month with ZERO players. Like what?! Is there no leftbacks of 3.5 stars in the world? Something's wrong with this or am I doing something the wrong way?

[JordanMilly]

3 minutes ago, luka_zg said:

Why are my scouts unable to find any left backs? I am Barcelona and I have great scouts and I put them to search for a leftback in the recruitment meeting of current ability 3.5 stars and potential 4.5 stars and they came back after a month with ZERO players. Like what?! Is there no leftbacks of 3.5 stars in the world? Something's wrong with this or am I doing something the wrong way?

Well, that might be because a 2.5 star player would be one that would be an average player in your team, which is Barcelona. You're asking your scouts to find you a left back that is already better than the average player in your team, which is not going to be a particularly easy thing to do, because you're Barcalona. Might be worth dropping it down to 2.5 stars current, 3.5 star potential, see if that comes back with any better results.

[WHUkain21]

7 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I find it funny how people think the ME changed when SI has already stated multiple times almost nothing changed. What change do you see that made it awful and do you have any statistics to support that? Wouldn't be so hard to find stats to support it if you think the ME changed that much. 

I can't tell you anything about stats. But it's easy to see with the naked eye. The game is just not the same and it is easy to see.

 

For example with the same tactic in beta with weak West Ham i had 3rd best defence in first season in whole premier league. So with such a weak team 3rd best defence. And than after full version i started with Peterborough probably strongest team in League 1 i was 3rd worst defence on 21place. My free kick tacker scored 0  goals with free kick rating 17, Technique 16 and long shot 16 for League one he is Juninho Pernmbuckano in Peterborough. And in beta i had 3 direckt free kick goals against stronger keepers in first season. Of course in both saves i worked on set pieces for match preparation. And than passing, roles and how roles behave on the pitch are different. One on ones olso.  Strikes can't score close to reality. I checked best five leagues after full version no one scored more than 16 goals, that is not possible. And in beta usually top scorers in leagues achieve number of goals around 26,27 or even more. Wingers don't assist like in Beta etc etc... 

[luka_zg]

2 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

Well, that might be because a 2.5 star player would be one that would be an average player in your team, which is Barcelona. You're asking your scouts to find you a left back that is already better than the average player in your team, which is not going to be a particularly easy thing to do, because you're Barcalona. Might be worth dropping it down to 2.5 stars current, 3.5 star potential, see if that comes back with any better results.

At the moment I have a 32 year old Alba(3 star) and Miranda (2 star). There absolutely should be players that are better than these two in the world and who would have 0.5 stars better rating then Alba. Don't you think?

And I have no reason to search for a 2.5 stars player because I want to buy a first choice left back, the best I can find. For example why did they not recommend Jose Gaya from Valencia? I mean I could go to player search etc. no problem but I want to scout also because sometimes you find great players that you don't find on player search and because it's more realistic to do it with scouting but it's no use if they can't find any good players.

[luka_zg]

Just now, WHUkain21 said:

I can't tell you anything about stats. But it's easy to see with the naked eye. The game is just not the same and it is easy to see.

 

For example with the same tactic in beta with weak West Ham i had 3rd best defence in first season in whole premier league. So with such a weak team 3rd best defence. And than after full version i started with Peterborough probably strongest team in League 1 i was 3rd worst defence on 21place. My free kick tacker scored 0  goals with free kick rating 17, Technique 16 and long shot 16 for League one he is Juninho Pernmbuckano in Peterborough. And in beta i had 3 direckt free kick goals against stronger keepers in first season. Of course in both saves i worked on set pieces for match preparation. And than passing, roles and how roles behave on the pitch are different. One on ones olso.  Strikes can't score close to reality. I checked best five leagues after full version no one scored more than 16 goals, that is not possible. And in beta usually top scorers in leagues achieve number of goals around 26,27 or even more. Wingers don't assist like in Beta etc etc... 

I have players who are on 21 and 14 goals atm and we still have half a season to go. So, strikers can still score lot of goals if you set them up right.

[Double0Seven]

3 minutes ago, WHUkain21 said:

I can't tell you anything about stats. But it's easy to see with the naked eye. The game is just not the same and it is easy to see.

 

For example with the same tactic in beta with weak West Ham i had 3rd best defence in first season in whole premier league. So with such a weak team 3rd best defence. And than after full version i started with Peterborough probably strongest team in League 1 i was 3rd worst defence on 21place. My free kick tacker scored 0  goals with free kick rating 17, Technique 16 and long shot 16 for League one he is Juninho Pernmbuckano in Peterborough. And in beta i had 3 direckt free kick goals against stronger keepers in first season. Of course in both saves i worked on set pieces for match preparation. And than passing, roles and how roles behave on the pitch are different. One on ones olso.  Strikes can't score close to reality. I checked best five leagues after full version no one scored more than 16 goals, that is not possible. And in beta usually top scorers in leagues achieve number of goals around 26,27 or even more. Wingers don't assist like in Beta etc etc... 

No it's not easy to see with the named eye. You don't have a statistical sample size and your human eye is biased. SI have a ton of data and the ME code. That's the difference between them and us. Hence why I find it so weird when people claim the ME clearly changed yet I get no proper answers when I start asking for stats. 

[WHUkain21]

Just now, Double0Seven said:

No it's not easy to see with the named eye. You don't have a statistical sample size and your human eye is biased. SI have a ton of data and the ME code. That's the difference between them and us. Hence why I find it so weird when people claim the ME clearly changed yet I get no proper answers when I start asking for stats. 

Football is not about stats and this game it is about enjoying it is art not stat. If you watch your matches you will see huge difference it is a fact.

 

So many people saw the same thing. 

[Pav_Makarov]

I'll update on my previous feedback on the absence of bookings from game highlights. Tackles that lead to non game-ending injuries are not there as well. It's terribly hard to control the game flow this way. Examples from my last game:

Game starts, first highlight on comprehensive comes up on 5th minute, by that time i already have a player booked and I only saw it when he got the ball on a highlight, situation repeats itself later on. By the end of the game I had 4 yellow cards and no foul has been shown as highlight.

In the second half I sub tired player for a fresh one, highlight comes up with a subbed-in DM going for a tackle, ball leaves for a throw-in and highlight ends. Few minutes later I want to give a PI, open a lower panel and see that he has poor condition. Apparently he suffered a blow, but nothing ever showed that, there was no animation of doctors taking him away, a highlight or a text commentary, as it used to be before.

I've opened a corresponding topic in a bug section, this is a game breaking thing in my view.

Match UI has: notable events, dugout, tablet with four screens, XG, tactics button, collapsable menu with your line-up, shouts and instructions. During a game user has to navigate between pieces of information, located in opposing parts of a screen, interacting with various blocks and while it is arguable that we can get used to that, but it's near impossible in this conditions to keep a track on the match itself. Imagine missing second yellow card just because you didn't know there was a first one? Or subbing a player, while unaware you have an injured CD limping on.

I understand that UI can't be changed at this point, but adding notable events to highlights (that's in the name notable events) can be done. It's as if manager is blindfolded, how this is realism?

[samdiatmh]

11 minutes ago, luka_zg said:

At the moment I have a 32 year old Alba(3 star) and Miranda (2 star). There absolutely should be players that are better than these two in the world and who would have 0.5 stars better rating then Alba. Don't you think?

And I have no reason to search for a 2.5 stars player because I want to buy a first choice left back, the best I can find. For example why did they not recommend Jose Gaya from Valencia? I mean I could go to player search etc. no problem but I want to scout also because sometimes you find great players that you don't find on player search and because it's more realistic to do it with scouting but it's no use if they can't find any good players.

 

for argument's sake, I started a brand new save at Barcelona, and did this specific scouting (of Gaya)
at gamestart, Alba is actually rated better than him, and Gaya can only marginally become better potential wise)

your scouts aren't the issue, you're literally setting them an impossible goal

from the "initial scouting meeting", your option is TAA or TAA, literally there's no other choice

you've got to temper your expectations, because you're Barcelona - any 3.5* player is going to be better than Alba at gamestart (which is fairly difficult)
unless you've basically gutted the squad and are challenging for midtable (although that's a challenge to still be in a job at that point)

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by samdiatmh

[JordanMilly]

7 minutes ago, WHUkain21 said:

Football is not about stats and this game it is about enjoying it is art not stat. If you watch your matches you will see huge difference it is a fact.

 

So many people saw the same thing. 

And any of the issues they're seeing now were already issues in the Beta ME, because the only things changed between the beta ME and the release ME were:

1) Referees/VAR making stupid errors was fixed;

2) Goalkeepers making stupid errors (like running into the net with the ball) were fixed; and

3) Defenders move more narrowly against 3 striker formations to cover the 3 striker threats.

Those are the changes that were made, as stated by @Jack Joyce. So if you're saying more was changed within the ME, and the ME is now completely different, you'd not only be incorrect, you'd also be calling one of the guys who develops and knows the most about the ME than any person at SI a liar.

[luka_zg]

4 minutes ago, samdiatmh said:

 

for argument's sake, I started a brand new save at Barcelona, and did this specific scouting (of Gaya)
at gamestart, Alba is actually rated better than him, and Gaya can only marginally become better potential wise)

your scouts aren't the issue, you're literally setting them an impossible goal

from the "initial scouting meeting", your option is TAA or TAA, literally there's no other choice

 

I'm in the middle of my 2nd season and Alba started to downgrade. He is not 3.5 star player for me any more.

Also, do you know if you set them to scout for PA of 4.5 stars will they show you players of 4 stars PA?

Edited December 2, 2020 by luka_zg

[JordanMilly]

2 minutes ago, luka_zg said:

Also, do you know if you set them to scout for PA of 4.5 stars will they show you players of 4 stars PA?

Pretty sure they won't. They'll only show you players they believe to be 4.5 stars or higher.