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Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread


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16 minuti fa, anagain ha scritto:

Do you know if this works regarding the team talk to tactics and back to team talk screens? I assume not.

It is ludicrous that this has been altered in this way this year. There are some bizarre UI changes in FM21. I suppose it is all part of the change to the match UI, but I don't mind the match screen. I mind the little changes to the UI in other areas that just don't make sense, they just skimp on years of FM development Not being able to move between screens at half time, no way to look at past chat histories with a player.

Of course, I bugged both but they are both falling down the bug forum pages because they don't appear to have been acknowledged by SI. An acknowledgement to say SI are aware of them would be nice. I don't like to bump threads, but I'm considering it.

I want to start a long term save, but I can't with the UI as it is in these areas. It bugs me and ruins my enjoyment of the game. Let's hope we get patch 1 soon, and that they do fix these UI issues.

Anyone remember when patch 1 was last year?

 

Think I might go back to my Koper save from FM20. It's a shame that I don't get to enjoy the great FM21 match engine, but I had few qualms with FM20's engine anyway. Play that and Cyberpunk and hopefully FM will be compatible with my FM OCD by then. It's a shame the UI has gone backwards in areas. I appreciate we've all suffered covid, but to remove options seems baffling to me.

Problem started when  they planned to put FM on consoles. In this way, they have to create a new UI who is good for Pc players and console players. They obviously failed, creating a horrible UI full of bugs.

They are doing the same PDX interactive did: try to maximize earning reaching anyone and ignore the people who bought the game from 2005. 

I will laugh when EA or KONAMI will release FIFA/PES manager and the console players will play it 

I'm sorry but i'm really angry about how SI has ignored the problems regarding UI. We told you at day one, please give us back a good UI 

Edited by RioImmagina
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1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

What would a cynical person say? If you've pre-ordered the game, you'll have  access to the beta. If, in this fantasy world of tinfoil hats you live in, that SI DID make the main game deliberately worse, who is losing out? It would be different if beta access was given free by means of enticing people to buy the main game, but your point, such as it is, falls at the first hurdle. 

Unlucky. 

Well it would entice people to play the game, because reviews would be good.

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56 minutes ago, anagain said:

Do you know if this works regarding the team talk to tactics and back to team talk screens? I assume not.

It is ludicrous that this has been altered in this way this year. There are some bizarre UI changes in FM21. I suppose it is all part of the change to the match UI, but I don't mind the match screen. I mind the little changes to the UI in other areas that just don't make sense, they just skimp on years of FM development Not being able to move between screens at half time, no way to look at past chat histories with a player.

Of course, I bugged both but they are both falling down the bug forum pages because they don't appear to have been acknowledged by SI. An acknowledgement to say SI are aware of them would be nice. I don't like to bump threads, but I'm considering it.

I want to start a long term save, but I can't with the UI as it is in these areas. It bugs me and ruins my enjoyment of the game. Let's hope we get patch 1 soon, and that they do fix these UI issues.

Anyone remember when patch 1 was last year?

 

Think I might go back to my Koper save from FM20. It's a shame that I don't get to enjoy the great FM21 match engine, but I had few qualms with FM20's engine anyway. Play that and Cyberpunk and hopefully FM will be compatible with my FM OCD by then. It's a shame the UI has gone backwards in areas. I appreciate we've all suffered covid, but to remove options seems baffling to me.

From what I've tested as soon as you get to the team talk you're done for if you want to go back and look at the player and analytical data. That's why I'll be viewing the HT team talk as pretty much a start second half button. It is a strange decision to not allow us to view this information at any opportunity during half time, and hopefully something that will get fixed.

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I'm bugging out right now

Tonight, I tried putting together a few tactics & holidaying to December 31st with the Ass man running my tactic, it's a geeky little thing I enjoy doing

Hit a couple of stinkers then hit a 4th place with Birmingham City

So I thought I'd try out the latest Knapp super tactic to pit it against 

I was sacked by November  :brock:

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24 minutes ago, Pav_Makarov said:

Hey, people, just noticed, is match preview gone? With the weather, attendance etc. Can't find it anywhere

Correct. You can't see the state of the weather at all during a game. Nor the attendance.

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2 minutes ago, anagain said:

Correct. You can't see the state of the weather at all during a game. Nor the attendance.

But that's because a real life manager could just look up at the sky to know and not refer to a phantom match preview. It's all about realism dontcha know? 

That said, I've had my neck craned right up to the screen in some uncomfortable angles and I just can't see the damn sky. Game's unplayable IMO.

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53 minutes ago, RioImmagina said:

Problem started when  they planned to put FM on consoles. In this way, they have to create a new UI who is good for Pc players and console players. They obviously failed, creating a horrible UI full of bugs.

They are doing the same PDX interactive did: try to maximize earning reaching anyone and ignore the people who bought the game from 2005. 

I will laugh when EA or KONAMI will release FIFA/PES manager and the console players will play it 

I'm sorry but i'm really angry about how SI has ignored the problems regarding UI. We told you at day one, please give us back a good UI 

I know what you are saying, and it has been seen in a number of games. I just don't know if it is the sole cause for the changes to this year's UI. I think the major impact has obviously been coronavirus and the problems that lockdown has caused. It can't be easy to make a game under those circumstances.

As far as I am aware most developers will have teams focusing on PC and teams focusing on console. There may be overlap.

I don't want to get to insinuating that SI have skimped because they're making their game available on console. I understand the changes, I just don't like them.

Maybe it is my fault. My desire to see this change, added to the fact that my bug reports don't appear to have been dealt with, has led to words from me that may sound like I am seriously angry with SI. I'm disappointed. Disappointed because I thought the ME in 21 was fantastic and I'd love to be starting a new journey with that ME. I had plans and they're currently on hold.

I understand though, and I firmly believe we all should. I know they are under pressure. Let's just hope we see some changes soon in a patch. 

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10 minutes ago, anagain said:

I know what you are saying, and it has been seen in a number of games. I just don't know if it is the sole cause for the changes to this year's UI. I think the major impact has obviously been coronavirus and the problems that lockdown has caused. It can't be easy to make a game under those circumstances.

As far as I am aware most developers will have teams focusing on PC and teams focusing on console. There may be overlap.

I don't want to get to insinuating that SI have skimped because they're making their game available on console. I understand the changes, I just don't like them.

Maybe it is my fault. My desire to see this change, added to the fact that my bug reports don't appear to have been dealt with, has led to words from me that may sound like I am seriously angry with SI. I'm disappointed. Disappointed because I thought the ME in 21 was fantastic and I'd love to be starting a new journey with that ME. I had plans and they're currently on hold.

I understand though, and I firmly believe we all should. I know they are under pressure. Let's just hope we see some changes soon in a patch. 

I feel the same. SI are doing a fine job, but I cant help the feeling that they are a bit too relaxed knowing they have no competitor. Theres no reason for them to delay the game by even a week more to fix some bugs that werent fixed in beta. I dont even blame them for it, business is business. They killed the competition and are reaping the benefits from it. But as someone who plays games where bugs somehow arent fixed in years, im happy waiting for just months to get it fixed from SI. So its not that bad.

Edited by Double0Seven
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1 hour ago, giglet13 said:

The pre match line up screen (shown for big matches and comprehensive highlights) really should be able to be seen for Extended Highlights at least if not all as clicking skips through anyway. Good bit of Ui pre game does not correlate with wanting to watch the level of highlights in comprehensive mode in my view. This Screen:

1427993133_ScreenShot2020-11-26at16_08_16.png.4994706e99312c6019aa7b4867ae3584.png

If nothing else any advice for the Skinning Forum for how to edit it's behaviour please :)

Can anyone confirm when this screen should display? Is it for big (televised?) games? all games in comprehensive highlights? Only on the big leagues? I'm playing as a team in the Vanarama National League on Full highlights, and have never seen this screen display - only the matchday program style line-up (which I actually quite like, would just prefer to see both - but if the above is only shown for televised games, that would actually make sense to me)

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42 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But that's because a real life manager could just look up at the sky to know and not refer to a phantom match preview. It's all about realism dontcha know? 

That said, I've had my neck craned right up to the screen in some uncomfortable angles and I just can't see the damn sky. Game's unplayable IMO.

I dunno if you are being sarcastic, Dave. :brock:

I suspect for 70% of the player base there are no issues with UI negatives such as no weather, lack of back and forth between team talk and tactics and other minor UI gripes. It is just a big issue for some.

Weather is a weird one, as Pav says in the great post below. I have seen SI say that weather is huge in a match too, so to have no notification other than, as you say, crane your neck, is odd. If viewing the weather in the 3D match engine was infallible then fine. It is not. 

42 minutes ago, Pav_Makarov said:

This is dumb AF, why would they ever remove it? I mean there was a useful information, like referee stats, history between teams, after all SI always said that weather affects performance and now they take it out completely. 

Would be really nice if moderators or devs explained what was the logic behind that. And no, I'm not bying "removing extra screen", cause they've added plenty extra screens to UI this year

With regard to back and forth between screens, many users will make a team talk quick or just have their assistant do it anyway. It is certainly less of an issue for them. I am very careful with team talks. I speak to individuals a lot. I need team talks and tactics screens to be viewable as much as I like. 

The other big issue for me is the lack of a way to view past conversations with players. I speak to my players a lot in my saves. It is never good to say the same things to them too much though. Therefore, I now would have to make a note each time I praise a player's performance in a match or during training so that I don't overdo it. My actual memory is just not up to that anymore. 

This would be fine if making notes in FM was a simple and intuitive act. It is an area of the game that has never really received an update. 

So whilst I know you were being humerous Dave, sadly these losses are a game breaker for me.

As I have said, it's a shame because the ME is wonderful. 

Edited by anagain
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4 minutes ago, anagain said:

As I have said, it's a shame because the ME is wonderful

Just my thoughts at the moment, I'm enjoying ME, feels like finally it's an actuall football game, so these small things, that are simply THERE (or not there) just make me wonder, how fantastic this whole experience could have been.

Still, match is the king.

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2 minutes ago, Pav_Makarov said:

Just my thoughts at the moment, I'm enjoying ME, feels like finally it's an actuall football game, so these small things, that are simply THERE (or not there) just make me wonder, how fantastic this whole experience could have been.

Still, match is the king.

Maybe I should just start my save this weekend and trust in SI to deliver. I am itching to play, but am aware of just frustrating myself no end.

It is an age thing, lads. 

Might be best I do as I have hinted and do another season. Of my FM20 Koper save. I'll at least have a European adventure to look forward to. 

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31 minutes ago, AlexJames said:

Can anyone confirm when this screen should display? Is it for big (televised?) games? all games in comprehensive highlights? Only on the big leagues? I'm playing as a team in the Vanarama National League on Full highlights, and have never seen this screen display - only the matchday program style line-up (which I actually quite like, would just prefer to see both - but if the above is only shown for televised games, that would actually make sense to me)

I saw the prematch lineup screens in every championship game I have played and every league Cup game, all be it just 5 games. 

Possibly a level thing. 

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I've seen complaints about scouting and recruitment.

My Wycombe save still pre-Brexit (in playoffs Dec Season 1 - take that easy game doubters) but all the players in my scout reports match my lack of transfer budget. Noone over 60k in months.

My experience doesn't displace those for whom it isn't working - but it is working fine for me. Well done SI.

 

EDIT - ignore that, next scouting meeting was a nonsense haha

Edited by Christmas
oops
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2 hours ago, Pav_Makarov said:

This is dumb AF, why would they ever remove it? I mean there was a useful information, like referee stats, history between teams, after all SI always said that weather affects performance and now they take it out completely. 

Would be really nice if moderators or devs explained what was the logic behind that. And no, I'm not bying "removing extra screen", cause they've added plenty extra screens to UI this year

I liked to have that screen too,

but they will pay more attention if u were more polite about it man...

 

SI please bring back the page with history between teams, weather and referee stats. It is important for immersion, thanks.

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1 hour ago, anagain said:

I saw the prematch lineup screens in every championship game I have played and every league Cup game, all be it just 5 games. 

Possibly a level thing. 

I think it depends If your game is live on TV and/or if you watch the game  in comprehensive or full game. 

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On 26/11/2020 at 09:32, rdbayly said:

I want to start with a positive about the game. The ME is the best its been in years. From my perspective, the success of an iteration depends almost entirely on the football we are presented with on the pitch. If I feel that my tactical decisions and tweaks make a tangible and visible impact on the outcome of a match - for better or worse -  then that makes me feel like a manager. Variety and unpredictability are key to achieving this, which I have to say has been achieved this year. Well done SI!

Now the criticism. I genuinely lack the vocabulary to communicate how much I despise the match day UI. For me, the design choices taken here have me in a state of bafflement and bewilderment in every match.

FM is a decisions-based experience. We absorb huge amounts of information, and use it make informed decisions. We rely on this information to plug the gaps in the simulation that we miss due to not watching the entire 90 minutes. I have never felt less able to be in a position to make sound and timely decisions during a match. I've lost count of how many times I've missed a player picking up a booking or slight injury in a match.

If there are genuine justifications for any of the below, or I am missing something very obvious, please do let me know:

  • Why have the yellow and orange booking / injury indicators been removed from the central panels?
  • Why can't I customise the match stats panel underneath the timer? (and instead, am forced to duplicate it to my liking in the tablet, taking up precious panel space)
  • Why can't I customise the information we receive from our staff via the disastrous dugout panel?
  • Why does ALL match information disappear from view like a Tinder swipe when a 3D highlight begins?
  • Why were widgets removed? ('realism' is a fundamentally flawed argument, as there needs to be some common sense applied to what we need to function properly in a simulated world)
  • Why are my eyes always forced to the extreme edges of my monitor to scan for critical information in tiny text? (when it should be displayed clearly in a central location)
  • Why arrange players both vertically and horizontally on the team talk screen? (I've been teaching people to read for years, and it's been empirically proven that this takes longer to scan and decode) 
  • Why can't I access full player stats during a half? (I see a player's rating dip to around 6.3, but now I can't quickly establish why. The statistical tools have been taken away and they are now fed back to me one column at a time through laborious singular drop down menus)
  • Why don't the analytical tools work? (I assume they are bugged and weren't fixed for release)

The ME has undergone the equivalent of open heart surgery, and survived. What I find incredulous is that having achieved the most difficult feat, the game has voluntarily given itself a metaphorical skin disease.   

I would say the interface has undergone a total lobotomy.....  It is not unable to communicate to the outside world in any meaningful way

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Still seeing way too many goals where a wide player will run towards the byeline and refuse to cross, eventually plays a tentative ball back towards the edge of the are around 25/30 yards out and technically average/weak players are smashing volleys or half volleys in from a) a standing position b) a bad angle and c) off balance is disappointing 

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5 hours ago, anagain said:

I speak to my players a lot in my saves.

I dont know how you do it, it's awful this year. Same with the personal trait conversation window, so much wasted space, so much scrolling necessary to find the one item you wish to click on. I have a 4k display and I can't take advantage of any of it at all.

  

7 hours ago, RioImmagina said:

They are doing the same PDX interactive did: try to maximize earning reaching anyone and ignore the people who bought the game from 2005.


Hopefully unlike PDX SI will listen to longtime customers instead of selling out for new money

Edited by witticism
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On 25/11/2020 at 23:32, FrazT said:

Given the size of the changes to the UI, it is unlikely that there will be any roll back, to be honest.  Like all change, it is mostly not wanted, but once you start to get used to it, its annoyance decreases.  There may well be some minor changes with future updates, but I would have thought nothing major

With Flight Sim 2020, for example, you get the fixes roadmap. So you actually know what is reported, what has been looked at and where improvements are being made. 
Rather than the SI game of chance. At least the Flight Sim team have the confidence and transparency to have issues out there rather than pretend that all complaints are "bugs" and therefore allow justified concerns and criticisms from seasoned players to be  marginalised. 

"Like all change, it is mostly not wanted". Wrong and highly disingenuous. 
The ME changes are not "mostly not unwanted". Let's not tell customers how to think. 

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10 minutes ago, Nonlondoner said:

With Flight Sim 2020, for example, you get the fixes roadmap. So you actually know what is reported, what has been looked at and where improvements are being made. 
Rather than the SI game of chance. At least the Flight Sim team have the confidence and transparency to have issues out there rather than pretend that all complaints are "bugs" and therefore allow justified concerns and criticisms from seasoned players to be  marginalised. 

"Like all change, it is mostly not wanted". Wrong and highly disingenuous. 
The ME changes are not "mostly not unwanted". Let's not tell customers how to think. 

You stated your opinion and that is fine- I just stated my opinion

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8 hours ago, Pav_Makarov said:

This is dumb AF, why would they ever remove it? I mean there was a useful information, like referee stats, history between teams, after all SI always said that weather affects performance and now they take it out completely. 

Would be really nice if moderators or devs explained what was the logic behind that. And no, I'm not bying "removing extra screen", cause they've added plenty extra screens to UI this year

The logic is Managers don't have this information in text form (they do on phone apps etc but thats a moot point) so in the name of "realism" neither do we.

Its a Miles thing I'm sure, he's always banging on about realism, but FM is a game so they need to design UI and features around that not real life IMO!

I got asked about how the weather was going to affect the my team in a tunnel interview...I was like erm I dunno what the weather is...its stupid like a lot of recent years changes to the UI.

They took streamlined simple easy to use UI and replaced it with a minimum of 4 more screens that provide nothing to the experience in general.

I gave up playing Fm20 and wasn't going to even buy fm21 due to the awful ME the last few years that gets fixed (its a thing of beauty don't mess it up please) and the UI takes a a gigantic leap backwards.

Things I have a real problem with:

Analytical reports I used such as assist locations etc God knows where that is in game now. I haven't been able to find it at all.

Team talks are difficult to see who exactly is and isn't being affected by what I'm saying.

Press conferences have 90% of the screen as wasted space and the useful info as tiny text jumping all around the screen.

No match preview so I have no idea of match odds or weather. Opposition injuries and suspensions etc.

The staff responsibility tabs are still  a god awful unusable mess same as last year where its nigh on impossible to actually tell who is responsible for what anymore. Something that just worked in prior versions, God knows why they complicated it.

Due to the changes to how stats are provided in a match I've just stopped even caring about them. They may aswell just not exist as I cant find them easily anymore and if I can and accidentally go to another screen they are gone for good. Again why this change, who thinks within SI towers its a good idea! 

If you are a lower league team then lots of reports just don't exist at all anymore as you don't have the staff member who makes them...apparently I'm responsible for that in the staff tab! Erm okay...

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I'm trying so hard to like the match day UI but it's driving me nuts. I feel like SI have taken a few steps forward with quite a few aspects of the game (notably the match engine) , but they have also taken a massive leap backwards with the match day UI. It's simply awful. I just don't understand why they had to change it so drastically. 

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

We ask for constructive feedback in the thread (and in general), please

Hello

Is it possible to know the reason for removing match preview screen? Or at least where can a player find such information as: referee for an upcoming match, it's attendance, weather, history between two teams, unavailable players and all other info, that was handy before the game?

Thanks you

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17 hours ago, 1891 said:

 

Not sure if we know yet - but would any fix mean we have to start a new save, or would it fix the bug in existing saves?  Thinking about trying a new save, but will wait if it won't fix existing saves...

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1 minute ago, duesouth said:

Not sure if we know yet - but would any fix mean we have to start a new save, or would it fix the bug in existing saves?  Thinking about trying a new save, but will wait if it won't fix existing saves...

They said it will most likely be save game compatible.

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8 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

@Kimmy I have hidden your post. We ask for constructive feedback in the thread (and in general), please.

Ok constructive feedback

The bugs have to be sorted out asap. I still see a lot of bugs in the beta not fixed and even new bugs appeared. It is really affecting my experience with the game

The match engine also feel like it went backwards. I understand that some find it too easy and si have to fix it but the balance isn't quite right. It feels a bit like fm20 where I score a lot less than I should given the quality of the chance (reflected by xg)

 

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1 hour ago, Mattwall28 said:

On average having about 27 corners each game lol stupid

Good that it is not only me noticing this. IRL there are games where you hardly see 10 corners overall but in FM there are 20-30 corners every game and mostly because of blocked shots. 

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4 hours ago, witticism said:

I dont know how you do it, it's awful this year. Same with the personal trait conversation window, so much wasted space, so much scrolling necessary to find the one item you wish to click on. I have a 4k display and I can't take advantage of any of it at all. 

Well, I meant in past FMs. That SI fixed the individual team talks selecting all players was great. It is the fact that I can not move from team talk to tactics and back again that is my problem. I want to look at my half time analysis from my team, check player stats and use that to decide what I want to say to my players. But I can't go back. 

I have no problems with the player conversations. Yes, there is a lot of space on the window, but the idea is that SI are trying to simulate you being in your office with the player.

As I said elsewhere, those conversations, and the new press conferences, are essentially first passes and can be fleshed out.

The boxes could maybe be enlarged. 

I like them though. 

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7 minutes ago, CM said:

Good that it is not only me noticing this. IRL there are games where you hardly see 10 corners overall but in FM there are 20-30 corners every game and mostly because of blocked shots. 

From my observations, there's a lot more wide players running down to the byline and kicking the ball against a defender and out for a corner rather than recycling possession - part of the re-emergence of a few FM20isms post beta.

 

Edited by rp1966
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1 hour ago, Mattwall28 said:

On average having about 27 corners each game lol stupid

For real? That's crazy!! What numbers are the AI games producing? When I was browsing about last night I think the max I saw was 6 or 7 but wasn't really paying attention 

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1 minute ago, rp1966 said:

From my observations, there's a lot more wide players running down to the byline and kicking the ball against a defender and out for a corner rather then recycling possession - part of the re-emergence of a few FM20isms post beta.

 

That might or might not be the cause of it but get what you say and I did not experience those movements that much in beta. But I think corner numbers in beta were not that low either. 

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10 minutes ago, anagain said:

The boxes could maybe be enlarged. 

I like them though. 

Literally all I'd ask for, keep the absurd abstract console friendly UI representation if you must, but let me enlarge the existing UI at least, it feels like I am back in 800x600 days with the amount unnecessary scrolling and menu clicking I have to do now.

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14 minutes ago, CM said:

Good that it is not only me noticing this. IRL there are games where you hardly see 10 corners overall but in FM there are 20-30 corners every game and mostly because of blocked shots. 

My last 10 games for context - total corners for both sides:

11, 10, 17, 9, 15, 16, 16, 13, 5, 15.

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