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Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread


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14 minutes ago, Whufc10000 said:

How do you want me to produce this data without anyone saying that it has been doctored in some fashion?

Well, you could explain methodology, what your thesis was, how you confirmed it, how you controlled variables (or what variables you were unable to control), what you tried to reject it, summed up numbers showing it, how you calculated standard deviation, etc. Just about in every way anyone would show statistics without showing raw data. I mean, at least doing something like that would give us a way to get a grasp of what your data proves. And that would allow any one of us to try to recreate it. If we got another result, then at least we could compare things, and see if the variables created any discrepancies.

14 minutes ago, Whufc10000 said:

As for "media prediction", in every save I've had every single team has EXACTLY the same media prediction season after season, no matter where they have finished in the league(maximum 4 seasons as I can't play the game beyond 4 seasons as it just gets more and more ridiculous)

The promoted and relegated teams just switch, example West Ham first season MP 11th but relegated switches MP with one of the promoted sides.

If I'm managing West Ham, lets say I finish 1st - 3rd - 1st - in season 4 our MP is still 11th

Well, then I can say I don't experience what you do. What I see this season is different from last season, I can say that for sure. My problem showing screenshots is that I think I'll get promoted this season, so that would ruin it, but I'll save it anyway in case I don't. I'll show you when I have two season in the same division. It might take a few days to get through the seasons though.

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29 minutes ago, Whufc10000 said:

How do you want me to produce this data without anyone saying that it has been doctored in some fashion?

As for "media prediction", in every save I've had every single team has EXACTLY the same media prediction season after season, no matter where they have finished in the league(maximum 4 seasons as I can't play the game beyond 4 seasons as it just gets more and more ridiculous)

The promoted and relegated teams just switch, example West Ham first season MP 11th but relegated switches MP with one of the promoted sides.

If I'm managing West Ham, lets say I finish 1st - 3rd - 1st - in season 4 our MP is still 11th

In relation to media predictions being incorrect, if you upload the save, let me know the file name and I'll take a look. Details on how to upload here - https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/538431-how-to-upload-files-to-us/

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Yeah ive also had problems with the reputation, finishing top4 in PL for like 4-5 years a row.  i had hard times buying ”better” players and improving because They still saw us a middleclub. 

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1 hour ago, Whufc10000 said:

How do you want me to produce this data without anyone saying that it has been doctored in some fashion?

As for "media prediction", in every save I've had every single team has EXACTLY the same media prediction season after season, no matter where they have finished in the league(maximum 4 seasons as I can't play the game beyond 4 seasons as it just gets more and more ridiculous)

The promoted and relegated teams just switch, example West Ham first season MP 11th but relegated switches MP with one of the promoted sides.

If I'm managing West Ham, lets say I finish 1st - 3rd - 1st - in season 4 our MP is still 11th

I trailed this a while now, and I noticed the media preview changed inside the season (before/after the transfer window!). Have a look:

OslstSW.pngUJUYE3k.png

As you can see there is about a month between these screenshots and the media predictions have changed. For my own team it has reduced from 351 to 251 even if I'm still last. But some of the other teams have switched position due to changes. So there is change in media prediction as proven here.

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3 hours ago, XaW said:

I can provide you my basic tactic, but as everyone else, I tweak it to fit my team, I tweak it inside matches to make sure I take advantage of the opposition when I see it, and I tweak it if I see we struggle with something. So sure, I can give you my tactic that I have quite a lot of success with, if you want?

That's been one of Garry's problems. If he's using one of knaps, whilst knaps likewise throws "this is my tactic 24/7, end of" at the engine and tests it, I think knap at least provides a couple of variants, eg. SUS tactics (Shut Up Shop) and similar. However, the AI managers likewise, are managing matches dynamically. It can't read a match, but it's been given match context to react to in more or less logcial ways (changing things up at HT if results may not go to plan, going for broke if there's but a few minutes left and a goal down, etc.)

But in general, this is about the match dynamicism, and back then also being able to spot when things don't work as well as they usually do. Even knap's may have an AI nemesis somewhere, as they did on FM17 where most his tactics too likewise exploited the glaring ME weakness that central spaces were bust wide open (wide midfielders barely coming inside to defend centrally, huge half spaces in between wide defenders and central ones). The key is that the AI only defended this some by chance (AI managers are edited to have different prefered formations and traits, some of which HAPPEN to defend central spaces a bit better). If it would be intelligent, it would have tried such every game. (Second half of this post of mine):

Of course, this exploiting too is never seen as glaring "cheating" or reported as such, this always goes one way. ;) 

There's only ever been one bias, which is in favor of the players, in particular with feedback becoming ever more "spoon-feeding". 

Edited by Svenc
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9 hours ago, XaW said:

I trailed this a while now, and I noticed the media preview changed inside the season (before/after the transfer window!). Have a look:

OslstSW.pngUJUYE3k.png

As you can see there is about a month between these screenshots and the media predictions have changed. For my own team it has reduced from 351 to 251 even if I'm still last. But some of the other teams have switched position due to changes. So there is change in media prediction as proven here.

I think on this screeen the media prediction never changes. This has stayed the same for the second season in a row for me (not that long a time period though):
image.thumb.png.fd753615fc9e54074870b669e548bc1c.png

 

The screen you showed seems to be more dynamic:

image.thumb.png.1811e13e9f5cadc788ab555971c8d356.png

Edited by Platinum
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1 minute ago, Platinum said:

I think on this screeen the media prediction never changes:
image.thumb.png.fd753615fc9e54074870b669e548bc1c.png

Huh, I hadn't even noticed it was there. I always use the one for the league. But if that's the case, then it should be easy to spring up some examples of when that and the league one not matching up? For my game it's correct though.

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1 minute ago, XaW said:

Huh, I hadn't even noticed it was there. I always use the one for the league. But if that's the case, then it should be easy to spring up some examples of when that and the league one not matching up? For my game it's correct though.

Check the update I made to my message

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Just now, Platinum said:

Check the update I made to my message

Please report it in the bugs section with the screenshots. Should be possible for SI to track down.

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15 minutes ago, XaW said:

Please report it in the bugs section with the screenshots. Should be possible for SI to track down.

yep

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33 minutes ago, XaW said:

Please report it in the bugs section with the screenshots. Should be possible for SI to track down.

Ended up going on a bit of a roll and submitted a couple bug reports and a feature request lol. 

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12 minutes ago, Platinum said:

Ended up going on a bit of a roll and submitted a couple bug reports and a feature request lol. 

Excellent! No better way to get things fixed or changed! :D

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On 21/07/2021 at 13:35, Daveincid said:

I forgot what I wanted to write about FM21 because of reading the last pages, but it was positive anyway:thup:

So there is a little different feedback:

Feedback for the Football Manager-Feedback-Thread: Level of entertainment is impressive:D

 

It is!

I've posted a number of issues with the game but overall, it's been a lot of fun and everyone involved should be proud.

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how do you get si to reply ? ive had a problem for a while with the match engine being really laggy. posted in the support forum nothing. posted in general discussion and nothing. so im now posting here. everything was ok but suddenly its gone really laggy and ive not changed anything.

ive got a i9 rtx 2080 32 gig ram 

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1 hour ago, fm2020.smith said:

how do you get si to reply ? ive had a problem for a while with the match engine being really laggy. posted in the support forum nothing. posted in general discussion and nothing. so im now posting here. everything was ok but suddenly its gone really laggy and ive not changed anything.

ive got a i9 rtx 2080 32 gig ram 

Log a support ticket:

http://fm21.info/support-ticket

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9 hours ago, MasterFolke said:

I wish sigames had folks making the knap-tactics unplayable.

Whilst I'd much rather have competent AI tactical assistants helping players: I don't mind about anything like that personally as such. Anybody can play the game whatever way they like -- plus, if they're having fun, all fine. (That is apart of the fact that there's typically always an ME/AI issue behind the wonder results, which of course is never reported as a possible bug -- or perceived of the players in question "cheating" the AI, but that#s another matter :D .)


What I do mind is that:

- players downloading inherently won't have a clue about any tactic's strenghts and weakness (and thus when to slightly change a few things)
- never learn to manage matches (which the AI does all the time, even though it obviously cannot "read" a match as such)
- perceive the game as inherently unfair in favor of the AI in spite of all the stats/results/evidence going their way generally

Take a lookie at this. One of these replies was to be found in the biggest download thread (considering the barely defense there appears to be at least "some" realism occasioinally, although from experience this is vastly overstated how often "it" happens:


spacer.png

 

Or this, from a user playing the same way and posting how unfair the game was in favor of the AI on like the last couple pages (I think he's back to being banned). 

spacer.png

I mean, dude's right. Several downloads certainly can win you the league with West Ham (even if you never do anything but belting continue to progress the time -- technically, that may still count as "playing a game", I guess). This is never about the overall success. It wasn't back then also, when under a thousand different alias he replied with the same thing ("I'm generally successful, so how can it be tactical?). But being unable to see when in individual matches -- or spells during individual matches -- things don't go as well as usual.

However, what would happen if the AI one day were coded to prove an added challenge, say by managing the visibly space on the FM pitches, e.g. by accessing the positional heat maps to check for whether there is space available against any one tactics? It would be finally delight for anybody yearning for an added challenge sure, but it would also prompt even more posts of the game being inherently unfair and guys getting "FM'd constantly". SI naturally know this, so may approach their AI with cautious for as long as this perception exists.

wwfan fan (former mod) was right on this eons ago already too.

spacer.png

 

Where @Whufc10000 actually has a point is that the AI managers indeed have "Knowledge" insofar as they are coded to make logical decisions that can work. That's because of SI knowing their engine. But also because of them receiving criticism for AI manager decisions by players who can read the ME. Players have to figure this out all themselves. Some can, some cannot. Thus I personally still think a tactical assistant /match analyst module proper could help close the gap. Both between AI match management and human player match management in general. And in between players who "get" it and those who don't. (Sure, the tactical UI also remains a bit of a puzzle box, but that's another topic). 

Which is also crucial if there's ever going to be any much further headroom in terms of long-term AI development. 

Edited by Svenc
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Can someone explain what happens in the game after the half of the season is done? Suddenly I can't win for the life of me. I lose against teams I beat 6-1 before the winter break. And it's not like they are playing good, either. Their players have like a 6.4 rating, still they win the shots, the possession, and the match. Tedious.

 

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2 minutes ago, Viking said:

Can someone explain what happens in the game after the half of the season is done? Suddenly I can't win for the life of me. I lose against teams I beat 6-1 before the winter break. And it's not like they are playing good, either. Their players have like a 6.4 rating, still they win the shots, the possession, and the match. Tedious.

 

Well, in short, it's your tactics, but let me elaborate a bit. If you have a tactic that relies on space, or time to play, and you are not a favoured team initially, it will work wonders. All the other teams will give you the space because they think they can outplay you. However, the AI have learned to react, albeit slowly. So after a chunk of the season is done, they reassess you and come to the conclusion; "hey, this team is better than I had expected, I'll go more defensive against it". So now, you are facing teams that stay further back, play more on the counter, and restrict the space much more. So your tactic that has worked wonders when given space, doesn't work when the space is not there. If we also add in that your players are seeing you are overachieving then they will take their foot of the gas unless you hold control of their complacency (easier said than done!). Those things compounded can really change a season that looked amazing for a long while.

And most teams will encounter this, it also happens to the AI. Some times you can see AI controlled teams are flying in the 1st half of the season before falling flat in the 2nd half.

So how to fix it? Well, I'd usually suggest having a couple of different versions of the tactic at all times. If you have something that works, try to find one that is a bit slower in tempo, a bit more controlling. Where you are wary of counters, but expect to have a lot of the ball. Make sure you have pivots to be able to recycle possession if the space is not there. Create runs through the lines to open up that space. Then switching between the two will make it harder for the AI to react and also what to expect from you. Without knowing the tactic you use, it's not easy to give details, but posting it in the tactics section will allow others to give you some feedback.

The other thing is to see it coming. Giving your players a smack at the back of the head after the first signs are showing is a very good remedy for complacency. A poor win over a poor team in December is an excellent time to tell them that was poor even if you won it. Being more demanding will often cause the players to refocus. Still, it gets harder and harder the more successful you are to stay focused and not become complacent.

This is very common though, and happens to just about everyone of us one season or another.

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4 hours ago, XaW said:

Well, in short, it's your tactics, but let me elaborate a bit. If you have a tactic that relies on space, or time to play, and you are not a favoured team initially, it will work wonders. All the other teams will give you the space because they think they can outplay you. However, the AI have learned to react, albeit slowly. So after a chunk of the season is done, they reassess you and come to the conclusion; "hey, this team is better than I had expected, I'll go more defensive against it". So now, you are facing teams that stay further back, play more on the counter, and restrict the space much more. So your tactic that has worked wonders when given space, doesn't work when the space is not there. If we also add in that your players are seeing you are overachieving then they will take their foot of the gas unless you hold control of their complacency (easier said than done!). Those things compounded can really change a season that looked amazing for a long while.

And most teams will encounter this, it also happens to the AI. Some times you can see AI controlled teams are flying in the 1st half of the season before falling flat in the 2nd half.

So how to fix it? Well, I'd usually suggest having a couple of different versions of the tactic at all times. If you have something that works, try to find one that is a bit slower in tempo, a bit more controlling. Where you are wary of counters, but expect to have a lot of the ball. Make sure you have pivots to be able to recycle possession if the space is not there. Create runs through the lines to open up that space. Then switching between the two will make it harder for the AI to react and also what to expect from you. Without knowing the tactic you use, it's not easy to give details, but posting it in the tactics section will allow others to give you some feedback.

The other thing is to see it coming. Giving your players a smack at the back of the head after the first signs are showing is a very good remedy for complacency. A poor win over a poor team in December is an excellent time to tell them that was poor even if you won it. Being more demanding will often cause the players to refocus. Still, it gets harder and harder the more successful you are to stay focused and not become complacent.

This is very common though, and happens to just about everyone of us one season or another.

Yeah look at Southampton last season

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The offside algorythm seems not to work all the time bcs i just right yet had a goal scored by a player who obviously was offside but the algorythm checked the pre-assist when the scorer was still onside...

Edited by Etebaer
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For a little Feedback ragarding the challenge level of FM21.

I have pretty much installed all the available realism and add challenge mods i came to know which sum up around 14 or so.

I started in the lowest available german league as comlete nobody and it is indeed quite more challenging with these mods/patches.

Until 3.Liga only the champion of each lower league wins promotion and in the GRD for my region is no automatic promotion but only a playoff only the champion can qualify for.

The first season i face an outlier team in my league that is simply to strong to compete with and i have only non contract players which i circumvent by hiring players qualifying for youth contracts.

Compared to the non modded game i have a highly reduced access to top players (in context to my leages average player ability) but the team improves each season til i get promotion.

Now facing again a few outlier teams the whole promotion thing of mine depends that i am able to hire a striker that is able to score against the outlier teams that have GRD quality and i finaly manage to do so in pure Bayern Munich style by robbing him off from a team in my league when his contract ends. He becomes my record goal scorer and i manager another promotion.

Things start well but even in the GRD are several outlier teams that have a quality that is good enouhg to compete in the 3.Liga and while my Striker scores my Tier 5 GK lets slip once in a while a goal into his net that prevents me from competing for promotion and i start to rebuild the team knowing it will be at least 2 more seasons to fight for promotion.

Then the disaster happens - i have reaslistic injuries mod - and my record striker gets his ankle fractured , is 4 month injured, 2 more months out of form and has his abilties decrease by 1 which makes him become a 15 to 20 goal striker instead of a 40 goal striker and he stops to score agaisnt the big teams.

Until the promotion season i am unable to hire either a GK or a Striker that is up to the task to enable my team to fight for promotion and then i miss it by the away goal rule until it happens a season later.

All the time i am operating at a significant seasonal loss bcs the mods seem to increase the wage demands of the players as well as i am had set the house rule not to exploit loopholes in the contract negotiations and pay reasonable yet stil low wages.

I had sponsor income in the low hundrex thousand and between 1000 and 2000 paying visitors per match in average and the only thing keeping me afloat was the success in the cup games, winning the amateur cup 9 times and rake in the money via the dFB Pokal were i made several millions plus a former youth player of the team i managed (he was gone for years already) was transfered twice and i got 600k in compensation (youth development payments).

Not until 3.Liga i was in fiancially a able to pay my expenses form the seasonal income alone but relied on the  extra cup income.

From there it became easy, my clubs reputation went from 1,5 stars to 2,5 stars and i finally got access to good loan and young players that i can hire making me achieve promotion each season since now playing in the top league with 20 millions on my clubs bank account competing for the Euro League places.

The challenge in the lower leagues definitively was there but is gone since - i pay the least wages, have the least income, the least ability players, almost all of them loaned.

I am not sure what to make up of it bcs all the time i was only 1 misstep away from failing and having the club fall into the death spiral of financial disaster and administration but i avoided it and reaped the rewards of success.

And i never changed my tactic if not for a red card that forced me so...i only neede to sort the players around a little when things went wrong which mostly happened when inkjuries occured bcs i only ever had a small squad an no subs for certain positions.

Probably the watershed between success and disaster is to polarizing and the game needs more room for "mediocrity".

Clubhistory.png

saisonpreview.png

winterpausentabelle.png

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Another thing that is more a realism thing in general is the endurance with that players and coaches stick to thier clubs.

So many Coaches have tenures that be close to or exceed 10 yrs - in my save Pal Dardai is probably Hertha Coach since i started the save, Erling Haaland is in his 13th Season with Hertha, no he is not playing at the big european clubs he plays at Hertha Berlin (and was the sole reason they won against my Team, i have never seen a player that good at 35yrs).

Klopp is in Manchester since Guardiola retired which is one Club change in 15 Seasons, Tuchel is still Coach in Chelsea etc.

There is way to little movement in regard to that, probably way to little outbidding and unsettling.

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6 hours ago, Etebaer said:

Probably the watershed between success and disaster is to polarizing and the game needs more room for "mediocrity".

Sorry for offtop, is it the Light21 skin or something other?

2 hours ago, Etebaer said:

Another thing that is more a realism thing in general is the endurance with that players and coaches stick to thier clubs.

It's a known bug which has not been fixed in the FM21 apparently. At some point it becomes extremely annoying for journeyman players.

My guess it depends on the compensation the club will have to pay for the sacking of a manager, so if you're Hansi Flick on 10 million euro per year contract for the next 5 seasons you can just chill and don't even bother about being fired.

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1 hour ago, Etebaer said:

Its the "FM21 Light Skin" from michaeltmurrayuk.

And pls delete the post above as i am unable to edit it....

I've removed it for you.

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On 10/07/2021 at 12:21, Whufc10000 said:

How do you compete when teams like Liverpool(example) can win 20 games in a row without creating many(if any) decent chances?

liverpoolwinning1.png.12ffc92f7903eef5bd53a691166420d4.pngliverpoolwinning2.png.06bb45475efcbfcf796cd19f6e7455ab.pngliverpoolwinning3.png.1a748271920bc2f3ce263c885005bdab.pngliverpoolwinning4.png.24da7bbc4d9f5ff38fa44a09bc3df0bd.pngliverpoolwinning3.png.1a748271920bc2f3ce263c885005bdab.pngliverpoolwinning2.png.06bb45475efcbfcf796cd19f6e7455ab.pngliverpoolwinning1.png.12ffc92f7903eef5bd53a691166420d4.png

This is just another poor presentation flaw. If there would be better animations for individual skills like shots, passes and first touches the game at the field would justify for the player why this or that result was possible even when statistically it should not, Another thing concerning presentation is lacking variety of mistakes that DO NOT cause shots on goal or attack to final third. Theres too much match flowing from point A to B When game flow should be A - B - C - D. This leaves human player wondering how I where punished like this at the end of the game all of the sudden. Just because FM GME lacked the necessary clues telling human player you will get punished soon. example underdog at the 93 minutes makes perfect cross with limited skill and perfect header when it should show mediocre cross what bounces under the defenders feet to opponent all alone ST just because defencer didnt have time to run down and intercept the cross because human manager was still pressing high defline. Sometimes there's even goals coming 90+ because you defend too low and this is also poorly presentated. Yes it's possible that goal can come after a perfect cross to the box or perfect longshot. But I think it should more likely be a bad bounce, lazy reaction (yes this should be animated) from deep defender, miss understanding who marks who (should be animated and match report telling players are arguing who should have been marking).

Edited by Pasonen
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Like when there is matches in my leagues playing you know, and after my next click i can see the results come up, how do i make this happening when its the euros or world cup games? i do follow both of these, but i never seen them coming up.

And another question, if i wanna scout for hot prospects or like maximum of 18 years, how do i get these recommendations only in my scoutmeetings? because in my meetings there are players that i dont sat my scouts out to scout for. 

 

Cheers!

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37 minutes ago, MasterFolke said:

Like when there is matches in my leagues playing you know, and after my next click i can see the results come up, how do i make this happening when its the euros or world cup games? i do follow both of these, but i never seen them coming up.

Head into preferences and search for Screen Flow, from there you can set things up like this:

image.png.b34f34580ad23b9260d972d227507731.png

That should give you the results you want.

38 minutes ago, MasterFolke said:

And another question, if i wanna scout for hot prospects or like maximum of 18 years, how do i get these recommendations only in my scoutmeetings? because in my meetings there are players that i dont sat my scouts out to scout for. 

You can head into Scouting and press the "Filter"-button in the top right, from there you can select what types of messages go where. So trial and error there to set it up as you want.

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1 hour ago, XaW said:

Head into preferences and search for Screen Flow, from there you can set things up like this:

image.png.b34f34580ad23b9260d972d227507731.png

That should give you the results you want.

You can head into Scouting and press the "Filter"-button in the top right, from there you can select what types of messages go where. So trial and error there to set it up as you want.

Thanks, i love you, cheers:)

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I hope player ratings are a bit more standardized in FM22. It is a bit irritating to see Griezmann with a work rate of only 14 and rather low attributes in mentals for a player of his stature. And he is sadly not the only example where the ratings seem very off from real life.

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Player attributes are of course a matter of opinion and are set by the club researcher and verified by the country's Head Researcher.  If you have questions about any attributes you are welcome to raise them in the relevant Data Issues thread in the Bugs forum, but if you do, please read the posting guidelines because just your opinion, without any details to back that opinion up, will not carry any weight.

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Kind of annoying with that fifa world club in the summer, i got one day of training before it started and After the the First two games my players were tired as hell, so at the quarterfinal against City my team had nooooo chance because of fatigue, City tho had no tired players at all tho…

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5 ore fa, MasterFolke ha scritto:

Kind of annoying with that fifa world club in the summer, i got one day of training before it started and After the the First two games my players were tired as hell, so at the quarterfinal against City my team had nooooo chance because of fatigue, City tho had no tired players at all tho…

I think you refer to the Club World Cup. Unfortunately it is as it is.

 

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22 hours ago, Federico said:

I think you refer to the Club World Cup. Unfortunately it is as it is.

 

Oh Yeah. This is Where you wished that the people responsible for the game acknowledged the problem within weeks After the games release and then put out a patch fixing it…ffs sigames:(

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Honestly, going into 2022 I'd prefer effort be put into improving transfers over improving the match engine.  I am so so so so sick of fielding offers for the same players every day.  In the last ten days I've received twelve loan offers for a player who is marked as unavailable for loan.  They're all for 70 or 80% of his wages, the ones that're 70% have a small fee, they're all offering Squad Player status, which is the same thing he's got at my club.  He's not even unsettled or on a short contract.  The entire world has just decided that it's time to sign him on loan, and it's been like this since I bought him a year ago.

There's also the acknowledged issues of disparate offers for players from AI and human teams.  I'm very glad that's on the radar for 2022.  I appreciate that the game is considered too easy by some people, but one way to fix that is to look at transfers and squadbuilding.

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spacer.png

 

Followup to my post - that's the day after I said I'd had 12 loan offers for Pelaez in ten days.  Admittedly some of these (which are automatically rejected by the DOF) have different terms, though none are good enough to be worth accepting.

Edit: Got one more that same day.

Edited by Sunstrikuuu
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