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Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread


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28 minutos atrás, Rikdancer disse:

What a great game, I like purchasing a game full of bugs, just to wait till march to see more new bugs! Done with your business model, of gaslighting your customers and ask them to buy the new edition , because MAYBE the bugs get resolved, your game has no new (working) features, so this becomes you USP, insane . They did this with fm 19,20 and now 21. For the rest claiming this is a great game, with 'great' me, aka set piece simulator, enjoy your gegenpressing tactics, attacking possesion footbal has been impossible since fm 17, because the ****** ME has never been properly fixed. 

You should go to the tactics section or see BTN videos, because I guarantee you don't know jack s*** about the game, or even football to be so bad. I don't have any problem using anything that's not gegenpressing, nor I have ever seen the so called set piece simulator. 

This is the type of criticism that's uncalled for, not because people want to censor you, but because you say zero, you try to do misleading propaganda, and you don't even look at yourself in the mirror to see that you might just suck. Because the way you worded, the way you talked, you mos def suck at the game.

No hard feelings, just don't be a sissy like this. If you want to s*** on the product do it fairly and with head, body and members. 

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52 minutes ago, DAZZ67 said:

Hi everyone, first things first sorry for my written english, I'm French, so... please be indulgent :)

 

First time posting here, been a reader for quite a long time though. The topic I want to discuss with you is FM's supposed realistic AI. I'm playing with Tottenham at the moment, and I've seen myself do something I've never done in my 20 years of playing Championship Manager and Football Manager: cheating. On multiple occasions during my first season, I rage quit the game to start the last match over. Never done that before. In 20 years.

 

There are quite a few things that I find really wrong in the game, and I'm afraid SI isn't even close to consider things the same way. In a nutshell, I find it very similar to FIFA, insofar as you just need to collect wonderkids with the highest PA, find the most successful cheated KNAP tactic, and let things run on autopilot for years. Basically, that is how you succeed 100 times out of 100 in Football Manager. And on FIFA. The last time a real team, in the real world, won anything with a group of wonderkids was maybe Ajax in 1995. In other words, in the real world, the last thing you do is to have a side full of unproven players in an asymetrical, irrational formation in order to compete for silverware.

 

Back to my save. My most inconstant player is no other than Son Heung-min, playing is his favourite position, along very good players. The guy offered a collection of 6.1/6.2/6.3 rated games all season long, as well as 8.5/9 rated games, with the exact same instructions and players around. Okay, I can understand that a player in League One has his good days and bad days, but here we're talking about one of the most consistant player in the best league in the world. It's either he's having a good season, or a bad one, with background to it. But definitely not how it happened in my save.

And that transpires to the team as well. Sometimes you go out having a good momentum, players in good shape, playing against a team struggling, their best players injured. They have 2 chances, score twice, you dominate the game, 30 chances, score 0. Not once, not twice, maybe 15 times in a season. Again, my strikers are Harry Kane, Son Heung-min and Gareth Bale. And whether you change the mentality to Attacking and demand more from the players or not, never changed a thing. Those are solely made for aesthetic purposes, never had any kind of impact to my team. And to tell how much the IA has no form of logics, should you play the same game 10 times, there's no way you find a common line to each and every game played. I mean, I know football couldn't be farther from a defined science, but come on, were a good team to play against the bottom one at home 10 times, you'd surely find some common statistics.

 

That's how the game is wrong. It encourages things that have nothing to do with real football. It overpowers wonderkids, tactical systems that exploit the flaws of the match engine, and annihilates any other form of success. I just finished my first season, Florentino Luis who had a blend year at Monaco joins Chelsea, Nuno Mendes who didn't even average a 7.0 rate goes to City, etc etc. And this happens every single time, every single save. The PA of wonderkids rules this game, plain and simple. But hey, how do real club recruit? On PA only? If so, Florentino Luis wouldn't have been loaned out to be a fringe player at Monaco. Tottenham wouldn't have let Marcus Edwards go. Sandro Tonali would be the best midfielder in Italy by now. Is that the case? Absolutely not. In real life, the environment, the staff, the player's mentality, his entourage, his performances, his playing time, a million things affects his PA, maximizing it, or destroying it. In FM, the PA rules, no matter what. Best PA wonderkids end up in the same clubs for the same amounts save after save.

 

Which leads to my final (for now) point: you don't need a director of football or a scouting department on FM. First of all, the scouting department is a joke. Many times I've assigned my scouts to specific missions in specific areas. For instance I'd ask him to scout Scotland for players between 15 and 20, they'd come back with reports for south american free agents over 30. Fantastic job. But what concerns me even more, is that each and every club in the game is supposed to have its way: build on your academy, play a certain brand of football, rely on players trading, etc etc Well, when it comes to big clubs, where the identity should prevail even more, all of this disappears. You don't need no Michael Edwards at Liverpool, they'd sell Salah at the end of the first season every time and bring in loads of players they'd never to in real life. Michael Edwards did a real job in spotting the players he picked in the real life, and that's why Liverpool is so successful. He picked them for their technical attributes, as well as for their personalities, and a potential that not anybody saw. Football Manager? You go to FM Scout, get acquainted with the wonderkids list, buy 'em all, and that's about it. There's no identity to the clubs in FM, it's just the big guns battling it out for the best wonderkids and regens.

 

Well I think you got me by this point. Just wanted to share my frustration, cause I was trying to do something with Tottenham. Long-term as well as short-term planning, create a unit of players with common traits, bonding with them, but I keep on losing to a bottom of the league Burnley for no specific reason, and that, I cannot tolerate anymore. I'm okay with losing, but when I lose, it's either I've been outcoached tactically, or I'm having a bad day once every 6 months. In this game, this is a russian roulette kind of IA. You don't get outcoached, you get lucky or not.

 

I know SI won't change a thing to all of that, and if the majority of gamers like it, so be it. I'm done.

I do not agree with anything you said. My game experience is exactly the opposite, but I don't download tactics, don't use FM scout, and don't reload games.

Look, all of these things you wrote are true... Because you are doing them. Don't download KNAP tactics, don't use FM Scout, You need to watch entire matches to see what tactics and player instructions are really doing. If you shoot 30 times on goal, and the opposition scores from two only shots, again, you need to watch the game to fully understand why this is the case. I feel this edition (and older ones) really does a good job of telling you what is going on on the pitch.

There is a specific reason why you lost to Burnley, you just haven't discovered it. Maybe the game wasn't explicit enough about it, but if you watched the entire match in full detail and attention, I'm pretty sure you'd figure it out.

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41 minutes ago, Rikdancer said:

What a great game, I like purchasing a game full of bugs, just to wait till march to see more new bugs! Done with your business model, of gaslighting your customers and ask them to buy the new edition , because MAYBE the bugs get resolved, your game has no new (working) features, so this becomes you USP, insane . They did this with fm 19,20 and now 21. For the rest claiming this is a great game, with 'great' me, aka set piece simulator, enjoy your gegenpressing tactics, attacking possesion footbal has been impossible since fm 17, because the ****** ME has never been properly fixed. 

So calling a perfectly valid way of releasing and supporting a yearly cycle game "gaslighting", and it's the people who are enjoying the game who are wrong.

Aye, ok then.  I can just imagine the support group now, and everyone with the genuine mental ailments totally understanding how awful it must have been to...voluntarily buy a completely optional product.  Oh the humanity.

Edited by forameuss
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OK- everyone is entitled to their opinion and have the right to express it.  Everyone else has the right to disagree with that opinion but not to get personal and insulting, so please bear that in mind form here.

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1 hour ago, DAZZ67 said:

"find the most successful cheated KNAP tactic in the real world.... the last thing you do is to have a side full of unproven players in an asymetrical, irrational formation in order to compete for silverware."

Most of the KNAP tactics are symmetrical - that is one of the simplye giveaway to indentify them on screen e.g. my favourite of having two IWB-SU and IF-A out wide in a 433. Makes zero logical sense from tactical standpoint but perfectly exploits the match engine - which his tactics are all about. IRL 99% of succesful managers use asymmetrical formations as there is no 100% matching players in a tactic who hold their line perfectly at the same lenght of the pitch. Even if one winger is 1m more forward than the other in defense, it becomes assym and completely rational. That is the whole point of vertical and horizantal spaces to not have easy lines and holes between them for the other teams to exploit.    

1 hour ago, DAZZ67 said:

Back to my save. My most inconstant player is no other than Son Heung-min, playing is his favourite position, along very good players. The guy offered a collection of 6.1/6.2/6.3 rated games all season long, as well as 8.5/9 rated games, with the exact same instructions and players around. Okay, I can understand that a player in League One has his good days and bad days, but here we're talking about one of the most consistant player in the best league in the world. It's either he's having a good season, or a bad one, with background to it. But definitely not how it happened in my save.

As a PL Fantasy owner of Son, I can confirm that he is anything but consistent and you are heavily biased because you are a fan of Tottenham. Son had a few matches with 13+ points this season where he scored but most of them are 2-3-5 points - so literally nothing special statistically. Exactly as in your save how you described. I agree he is a brilliant and unique player IRL, but he is nowhere near a level of consistency like you described him as world class. At least not in statistical or rating perspective.

1 hour ago, DAZZ67 said:

mentality to Attacking and demand more from the players or not, never changed a thing. Those are solely made for aesthetic purposes, never had any kind of impact to my team. And to tell how much the IA has no form of logics, should you play the same game 10 times, there's no way you find a common line to each and every game played. I mean, I know football couldn't be farther from a defined science, but come on, were a good team to play against the bottom one at home 10 times, you'd surely find some common statistics.

Changing the mentality to attacking and demanding more from your players will not solve magically an incompetent tactic not creating chances. Your players will take way more risky passes and shots and will be hurried in their decisions to "attack faster". This will result in less quality chances as they are focusing on the more quantity to satisfy your request. Yes, football is not hard-coded as you've mentioned and almost completely random in real life as well. Rarely happens that there are pass-concepts drawn into a board replicated exactly multiple times in 90 minutes, most of the goals come from individual technical or tactical errors. If Real Madrid plays Elche 10 games they will not even win 10, not to mention with the same pass-combinations or goal variations. All our choices we make as FManagers and real life coaches too are to eliminate the luck factor as much as possible. "Try harder" is not a solution - that is why IRL manager are getting sacked so often when other teams figure out the way to play against them. 

 

1 hour ago, DAZZ67 said:

Best PA wonderkids end up in the same clubs for the same amounts save after save.

Because they (Manchester City, PSG, manred, Bayern) have money to invest 20-30M into multiple "whatIF" players each transfer window and you are focusing only on them. They will also buy the best current ability players most of the time for 50+M. IRL they do the same whenever they have the financial muscle to pull it off. Like Bayern is doing the most disgusting thing of hoarding the best Bundesliga youngsters from their rivals just to sit on their bench and not to play for the other team. Weaken your rivals and build up a talent pool within your team, makes sense.

 

1 hour ago, DAZZ67 said:

Michael Edwards did a real job in spotting the players he picked in the real life, and that's why Liverpool is so successful. He picked them for their technical attributes, as well as for their personalities, and a potential that not anybody saw. 

Yeah I mean nobody saw Salah at Roma tearing up Europe with his performance, Van Dijk being the best PL defender at Southampton, neither Jota being one of the most effective two footed striker, Thiago being the playmaker in a CL winning Bayern Munchen or Allison becoming the NT choice for Brasil. Holy **** man if anything Liverpool did in the past years they are just poaching established players in their peak from other teams! Just checked their current roster, only TAA is a notable youth product all of the others were big transfers for established player from top5 league clubs. That is not exceptional scouting that is the opposite, they lure and upset other teams best players and sign them because of their financial + reputation (Klopp, CL, PL) muscle. 

Just wanted to share this as this is a perfect example on how our own perception makes us think that "my opinion is the correct one" when in reality viewing it objectively every single point you listed could be debunked with underlying facts that you just completely ignore to make your points valid and believe it. Please do not take it as a personal attack against you. Nobody is winning any argument on the internet and everybody has their own opinion but we tend to make the biggest error when announcing these if not differentiating between our own opinion/bias and actual facts - especially in the area of soccer where everybody is a couch-manager and thinks they understand the game. No, we do not. 

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39 minutes ago, LucasBR said:

Even after doing 3 subs my assman keeps suggesting replacing players :seagull:

By now, I read it as "Man, it sure would be cool if we could make a fourth substitution" :D

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Has this thread always been so filled up with the "I'm not winning so the game must be broken" posts? I know they've always been around, but this year it just seems outrageous IMO.

Previous years I remember people (myself included) complaining about the ME being a bit boring, just wide play and blocked crosses, so the fact people come here to rage about results rather than the game itself surely must mean that this years ME is the best we've ever seen? Sure enough, people attribute their losses to a faulty game, but those of us that play the game every year usually complain that it's too easy, take over any top division team and you're more or less guaranteed europa cups even if you were predicted to fight demotion

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But let's think about the root reason why human player who is in full control and gets 30 shots can't win more often.

 

1) If ME would respect stats like scoring chances, interceptions etc. And tactic selections more precisely then it would not be possible to make AI play this close realistic football season in big scale in numbers. AI should be more wise when selecting tactic and more wiser when reacting. 

2) defending and limiting amounts of shots is not working. Taking defending tactic will result you being pushed deep just because middlefield is too easily passed or dribbled through. Flanks are too open for too long. This alone causes irritation to players because there's too many shots.

3) combining football realism and game. If FM would be too realistic how you could enjoy it when you start as a underdog? How and how often small clubs can make miracles in football? How implement squad building that is more realistic and important part of FM. How implement match preparation more deeply in game? And now we come again to the weakness of AI what is holding game back.

 

just some thinking..

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31 minutes ago, Pasonen said:

2) defending and limiting amounts of shots is not working. Taking defending tactic will result you being pushed deep just because middlefield is too easily passed or dribbled through. Flanks are too open for too long. This alone causes irritation to players because there's too many shots.

Time to resurrect my counter attacking thread in FM2020:

 

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10 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Time to resurrect my counter attacking thread in FM2020:

 

Yes yes. its in a way possible, but it should not be so rare. Its not just the defending and interception mechanic in ME its also because AI teams create the world of football in FM. Their actions and limitations are hurting the game experience and realism of this series. 

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Defending and limiting amounts of opposition shots is very much possible, but setting team instructions to defensive has very little to do with it. Just use your PIs to take out the oppositions 1-2 main (only) threats, and the AI opponent will just keep playing the same way until 80th minute or so before making any changes even though players like Harry Kane and Sergio Aguero doesnt get a sniff of the ball.

I do agree its way more fun to play FM when you're doing well, but when its almost impossible to create a long term project with a 2nd division team because you just know you will win promotion in season 1 and get europa cup placements in season 2 makes you hit the ceiling of your club way too soon IMO.

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5 hours ago, Zoolok42 said:

I do not agree with anything you said. My game experience is exactly the opposite, but I don't download tactics, don't use FM scout, and don't reload games.

Look, all of these things you wrote are true... Because you are doing them. Don't download KNAP tactics, don't use FM Scout, You need to watch entire matches to see what tactics and player instructions are really doing. If you shoot 30 times on goal, and the opposition scores from two only shots, again, you need to watch the game to fully understand why this is the case. I feel this edition (and older ones) really does a good job of telling you what is going on on the pitch.

There is a specific reason why you lost to Burnley, you just haven't discovered it. Maybe the game wasn't explicit enough about it, but if you watched the entire match in full detail and attention, I'm pretty sure you'd figure it out.

Who said I used KNAP tactics? I don't.

Also I'd be curious to understand why a proven goalscorer like Kane struggles to score when his attributes are world-class, the tactic makes sense, and has the opportunities to score. I mean, we're talking about missing 1v1 one after the other, not shots from outside the box. You are right, I'd love to understand how the best scorer of the PL misses clear cut chances in the game.

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2 hours ago, Pasonen said:

) defending and limiting amounts of shots is not working. Taking defending tactic will result you being pushed deep just because middlefield is too easily passed or dribbled through. Flanks are too open for too long. This alone causes irritation to players because there's too many shots

If your not sure how to limit the amount of shots your opponent has why not ask how to do it? Instead you said it's not possible when in fact it is possible.

People please stop saying you cant create chances, you cant stop opponent chances etc without asking for help first.

What we dont want is SI making the game easier because a minority are being vocal and complaining but havent checked what they are doing wrong first. 

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21 minutes ago, DAZZ67 said:

Who said I used KNAP tactics? I don't.

Also I'd be curious to understand why a proven goalscorer like Kane struggles to score when his attributes are world-class, the tactic makes sense, and has the opportunities to score. I mean, we're talking about missing 1v1 one after the other, not shots from outside the box. You are right, I'd love to understand how the best scorer of the PL misses clear cut chances in the game.

Well you mentioned KNAP tactics, it's not much of a leap to conclude you were using them, too.

And I don't know, if you can't get Kane to score, maybe you are doing something wrong? Without really knowing what you do, I can't tell you, but really, I mean sign Haaland now, and get him to not score, and then blame it on the game.

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4 hours ago, marioNOW said:

Most of the KNAP tactics are symmetrical - that is one of the simplye giveaway to indentify them on screen e.g. my favourite of having two IWB-SU and IF-A out wide in a 433. Makes zero logical sense from tactical standpoint but perfectly exploits the match engine - which his tactics are all about. IRL 99% of succesful managers use asymmetrical formations as there is no 100% matching players in a tactic who hold their line perfectly at the same lenght of the pitch. Even if one winger is 1m more forward than the other in defense, it becomes assym and completely rational. That is the whole point of vertical and horizantal spaces to not have easy lines and holes between them for the other teams to exploit.    

As a PL Fantasy owner of Son, I can confirm that he is anything but consistent and you are heavily biased because you are a fan of Tottenham. Son had a few matches with 13+ points this season where he scored but most of them are 2-3-5 points - so literally nothing special statistically. Exactly as in your save how you described. I agree he is a brilliant and unique player IRL, but he is nowhere near a level of consistency like you described him as world class. At least not in statistical or rating perspective.

Changing the mentality to attacking and demanding more from your players will not solve magically an incompetent tactic not creating chances. Your players will take way more risky passes and shots and will be hurried in their decisions to "attack faster". This will result in less quality chances as they are focusing on the more quantity to satisfy your request. Yes, football is not hard-coded as you've mentioned and almost completely random in real life as well. Rarely happens that there are pass-concepts drawn into a board replicated exactly multiple times in 90 minutes, most of the goals come from individual technical or tactical errors. If Real Madrid plays Elche 10 games they will not even win 10, not to mention with the same pass-combinations or goal variations. All our choices we make as FManagers and real life coaches too are to eliminate the luck factor as much as possible. "Try harder" is not a solution - that is why IRL manager are getting sacked so often when other teams figure out the way to play against them. 

 

Because they (Manchester City, PSG, manred, Bayern) have money to invest 20-30M into multiple "whatIF" players each transfer window and you are focusing only on them. They will also buy the best current ability players most of the time for 50+M. IRL they do the same whenever they have the financial muscle to pull it off. Like Bayern is doing the most disgusting thing of hoarding the best Bundesliga youngsters from their rivals just to sit on their bench and not to play for the other team. Weaken your rivals and build up a talent pool within your team, makes sense.

 

Yeah I mean nobody saw Salah at Roma tearing up Europe with his performance, Van Dijk being the best PL defender at Southampton, neither Jota being one of the most effective two footed striker, Thiago being the playmaker in a CL winning Bayern Munchen or Allison becoming the NT choice for Brasil. Holy **** man if anything Liverpool did in the past years they are just poaching established players in their peak from other teams! Just checked their current roster, only TAA is a notable youth product all of the others were big transfers for established player from top5 league clubs. That is not exceptional scouting that is the opposite, they lure and upset other teams best players and sign them because of their financial + reputation (Klopp, CL, PL) muscle. 

Just wanted to share this as this is a perfect example on how our own perception makes us think that "my opinion is the correct one" when in reality viewing it objectively every single point you listed could be debunked with underlying facts that you just completely ignore to make your points valid and believe it. Please do not take it as a personal attack against you. Nobody is winning any argument on the internet and everybody has their own opinion but we tend to make the biggest error when announcing these if not differentiating between our own opinion/bias and actual facts - especially in the area of soccer where everybody is a couch-manager and thinks they understand the game. No, we do not. 

This season, Son nearly has a 0.5 goal/game ratio, but yeah, he's not consistent. Biaised as I happen to be, I should definitely look at PL Fantasy to get a more accurate view on games instead of watching them. What a fool I am.

I get what you say on mentality changes and you are right I guess. However, I rarely got to see more chances being created in this case either. It's just fancy stuff to me. And so is morale, I mean you encourage, demande more, or whatever, the icon changes for a few seconds, than back to normal. What's the point?

About wonderkids, you are right too, my bad, I perhaps wasn't clear enough. What I mean is that there is a reason big clubs don't buy every single wonderkid in real life, and they don't all end up at City, PSG, Barca or whatever. What I mean is that the AI solely relies on the PA as a definitive value, that cannot be altered by anything. Like I said, in my save, Florentino Luis had an anonymous season with Monaco, but still ended up at Chelsea. In real life, Gedson Fernandes, a former wonderkid, got loaned to Tottenham, never lived up to expectations, and then moved to Galatasaray. In my save, he would have gone to Chelsea no matter how. What I mean is in real life that talent is never enough, but for this AI, it is.

Concerning Michael Edwards' work, I beg to differ. When he signed Salah, everybody reminded Liverpool of Salah's time at Chelsea, and the failure he was in the PL. I don't have many examples of players moving seamlessly from Serie A to the PL, let alone get even better. Veron and Crespo, in their prime, didn't succeed in England. So maybe I'm biaised on Tottenham, but you are on Salah too lol Van Dijk? EVERYONE thought his transfer was way too expensive, and nobody saw him as the best defender in the world when he signed. He was a solid CB having a great season, he wasn't seen as better than Ramos back then. Alisson had only 1 full season with Roma under his belt. And Thiago, well, he underperforms at Liverpool, so I guess you have your own weird way to analyze Liverpool's transfer strategy. Their strategy was never that of PSG like you seem to explain, it's actually the opposite. It's about taking players with great potential to the next level, and not every player can fulfill his full potential. So yeah, credits to Edwards, that was a masterclass. In my save, they signed Odegaard for 93M€. I'll treat you to your favourite restaurant for a year if anything like that happens in real life.

 

I don't pretend thet my view is the correct one. Been playing the game for 20 years, always refused to use already made tactics and buy every single wonderkid. I like to make things more realistic, and that rarely pays off. I don't take what you say as a personal attack, I'm actually pleased to have a conversation. However I just can't get anymore of seeing the same transfers being made in every save, it's just... I feel like SI promised me something realistic, and it's just not.

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3 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

If your not sure how to limit the amount of shots your opponent has why not ask how to do it? Instead you said it's not possible when in fact it is possible.

People please stop saying you cant create chances, you cant stop opponent chances etc without asking for help first.

What we dont want is SI making the game easier because a minority are being vocal and complaining but havent checked what they are doing wrong first. 

Alright, I'm ready to be enlightened then. How do I get a world-class striker to not miss clear-cut 1v1? How do I stop players with 17+ pace in the game other than tackling them hard and adopting a coherent defensive approach? Lys Mousset, Anthony Martial and Adama Traoré are fantastic on my save, but I when I watch the games every weekend, gosh what a difference.

 

So yeah, now I'm vocal after playing 20 years without posting on a single forum lol so please tell me, I'm here to learn

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6 minutes ago, Zoolok42 said:

Well you mentioned KNAP tactics, it's not much of a leap to conclude you were using them, too.

And I don't know, if you can't get Kane to score, maybe you are doing something wrong? Without really knowing what you do, I can't tell you, but really, I mean sign Haaland now, and get him to not score, and then blame it on the game.

I might be doing something wrong, the thing is that I don't get what. He's improving in training, morale is excellent, I'm among his favourite personnel, he has clear-cut chances, but misses. While FM's very won Calum Wilson needs 1 opportunity to score 3 goals year after year.

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1 minute ago, DAZZ67 said:

I might be doing something wrong, the thing is that I don't get what. He's improving in training, morale is excellent, I'm among his favourite personnel, he has clear-cut chances, but misses. While FM's very won Calum Wilson needs 1 opportunity to score 3 goals year after year.

Best to take it to the tactics forum with details of how you're setting up and the exact issues you have. :thup:

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2 minutes ago, DAZZ67 said:

I might be doing something wrong, the thing is that I don't get what. He's improving in training, morale is excellent, I'm among his favourite personnel, he has clear-cut chances, but misses. While FM's very won Calum Wilson needs 1 opportunity to score 3 goals year after year.

How good are the chances he is getting? What is your average xG? Can you give an example on where he missed a lot of good opportunities?

[edit] @HUNT3R is right, this is more for the tactics forum.

Edited by Zoolok42
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22 minutes ago, DAZZ67 said:

However I just can't get anymore of seeing the same transfers being made in every save, it's just... I feel like SI promised me something realistic, and it's just not.

If you mean the exact same transfers being made in different saves it's probably down to manager shortlists, the AI has them too, so often when there's lots of rumours of player X going to club Y IRL that player is added to the managers short list and he seeks to buy them every time you start a save.

I dont concede much at all to fast opposition strikers, I mainly have a problem with the huge target men on support coming late into my box and absolutely trashing my ball playing CBs. Its easier to play a lower defensive line than try to push up if the opposition attacks you.
But if you play possession football with a top 6 teams its only natural for the opposition to play counter attacking against you, and just like IRL its much easier to score on a counter attack than carving open a side that parks the bus. I really dont see this as the game being broken in any way.

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2 minutes ago, Zoolok42 said:

How good are the chances he is getting? What is your average xG? Can you give an example on where he missed a lot of good opportunities?

[edit] @HUNT3R is right, this is more for the tactics forum.

I'll get a look, no problem.

 

In fact, I don't demand that the game get easier, it's actually the exact opposite. I think the game is too easy to cheat. Most successful tactics are so because they make the most of the engine. This year it's gegenpressing for instance. And should you be able to get the right wonderkids, the right regens etc, well, done deal.

I'm actually asking to have more of a human approach to the game. Not let it be ruled by tactics (Ferguson won it all with a big old 442), by the potential ability, but instead make it a game where you as a manager, and the other ones, have personality traits that influence the game. In the game, for big clubs, doesn't matter who the coach is, the players they signed are always the same. As I see it in today's version of the game, there's no room for reflexion, for man management. It's just about tweaking your tactic and buying the best wonderkids. Well, that's one side of the game. Some of the biggest managers never relied on wonderkids (Mourinho). Some prefer to develop their own players rather than going to the market (Zidane). Some use their unparalleled man-management to overpower players potential (Simeone). Some are astute managers who can adapt anywhere and create a solid bond within the group (Ancelotti). 

Also clubs have a certain way of doing things. Rely on the academy, rely on smart scouting, buy the biggest names, buy older or younger. 

All of this, I have never, ever seen on Football Manager. I'm perfectly okay if you think the game is fine as it is, and I'm actually happy for you. But I'd rather have a game that cannot be cheated with a 1-minute-download 50Ko tactic file and a list of unbeatable assets. I'd rather have a game when, like in real life, anything we decide has real consequences. Maybe I'm dreaming though

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50 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

If your not sure how to limit the amount of shots your opponent has why not ask how to do it? Instead you said it's not possible when in fact it is possible.

People please stop saying you cant create chances, you cant stop opponent chances etc without asking for help first.

What we dont want is SI making the game easier because a minority are being vocal and complaining but havent checked what they are doing wrong first. 

I'm sorry my language is a bit hasty and clunky but I didn't mean that at all. I don't have a problem with the game personally, but when you look how AI tries to defend against bigger teams it's not looking realistic presentation of football at all. In these games middlefield is bypassed too easily and formations gives ground too easily. Gameplay needs more phases at the middlefield before defline collapses down and welcomes opponent to final third. AI teams reveal how the game is played in bigger scale and it shows there's too big difference between AI world and player world. This makes the game look bad when human player over attacks against AI. I look game purely from neutral perspective in this feedback.

Edited by Pasonen
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13 minutes ago, zindrinho said:

If you mean the exact same transfers being made in different saves it's probably down to manager shortlists, the AI has them too, so often when there's lots of rumours of player X going to club Y IRL that player is added to the managers short list and he seeks to buy them every time you start a save.

I dont concede much at all to fast opposition strikers, I mainly have a problem with the huge target men on support coming late into my box and absolutely trashing my ball playing CBs. Its easier to play a lower defensive line than try to push up if the opposition attacks you.
But if you play possession football with a top 6 teams its only natural for the opposition to play counter attacking against you, and just like IRL its much easier to score on a counter attack than carving open a side that parks the bus. I really dont see this as the game being broken in any way.

I agree.

But look, I tried to play the game just now. Counter-attack for Villa, an injured Grealish gets drives past my CB who neither presses nor gets back, and my GK doesn't even try to move. I mean, I'm asking my players to press, and my GK is a SK. What more can I do to make them move lol it's just crazy, they just looked at him do his thing like the front row fans. I'm okay to be an idiot, but when exactly asking my players to press has my CB to freeze like that? The rest of the game? They shot 4 times, scored 3. They led 1-0, came back 2-1, but obviously a bottom of the league Villa wouldn't let me go without scoring another 2 goals. What a joke honestly

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How did you end up with a 1 on 1 against you in the first place? It doesnt sound that unrealistic to me that Grealish scares a defender when he comes charging with the ball and the defender has no cover. 

Look at some of harry maguires mistakes IRL for man utd, or GKs giving away chances when trying to play out fron the back. I bet you'd call that a joke if it happened ingame as well. 

You really should start a thread in the tactics forum, dont waste a 20yr love for the game over what I suspect are small simple misunderstandings in what the instructions actually means.

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Why for the last 3 or 4 FMs do the 2 players you have lurking outside the area, for any attacking set piece, always stand in the same position holding hand????

 

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Possibly not the right thread to drop this but has anyone else noticed the pitch graphics are significantly poorer now than they were in fm17? For example I've just played on a pitch so terrible the media made a fuss about it, but it still looked like a snooker table on the match screen, kind of ruins the immersion somewhat. I'm running medium graphics on a toaster laptop, is there any tweaking l should do to improve this? 

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11 minutes ago, Danchinaski said:

Possibly not the right thread to drop this but has anyone else noticed the pitch graphics are significantly poorer now than they were in fm17? For example I've just played on a pitch so terrible the media made a fuss about it, but it still looked like a snooker table on the match screen, kind of ruins the immersion somewhat. I'm running medium graphics on a toaster laptop, is there any tweaking l should do to improve this? 

Pitch wear was a real issue in the early betas and it had been taken too far- consequently I think that they went back to the drawing board, so apart from making sure that your graphics driver on your toaster is fully updated, I doubt that there is much that you can do at the moment.

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After the last patch I've been enjoying the game quite a bit. But one thing keeps bothering me is the lack of response from the AI when we talk about transfers during a press conference. It should have some impact on future bids for the player.

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6 hours ago, DAZZ67 said:

I might be doing something wrong, the thing is that I don't get what. He's improving in training, morale is excellent, I'm among his favourite personnel, he has clear-cut chances, but misses. While FM's very won Calum Wilson needs 1 opportunity to score 3 goals year after year.

Son is suffering from the bug that plagues player stats... When he gets 6.1 6.2 he might not even play bad but the game punishes him severly for not scoring or asssintg. If you look you will see that even when he scores or assists he barerly gets rating 7

 

 

Also its a big joke Si stops update the game in MARCH when we have 8 months till next year and its a freaking pandemic .. I mean you even were late one month to release the game (No fault there as I said Pandemic) but u still stop updating  beginning of march?


 

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Lets take a look at top playe ratijngs in the world in my save

 

I am in Premier League

1st 7.52 (Bruno Fernandes he takes penalties tec) 

20th My GK (7. 20)


I quick glance at Top 20 in Seria A
1st is 8.20
20th is 752

LA LIGA
1st 7.94
2nd 7.93
3rd 7.89
4th 7.86
5th 7.80
20th 7.52

Bundesliga

1st 8.07
2nd 7.88
3rd 7.84
4th 7.70
20th 7.50

France
1st 8.13
2nd 8.09
3rd 7.86
4th 7.80
5th 7.78
20th 7.48

 

Those stats for me are game breaking . I like immersion thats why I play a stat based game.. Honestly first 2 seasons I Kept buying AMC And AMR and selling them since they all had average 6.5 .. Then I noticed something is very wrong with stats when every season I have 1 or 2 players above 7.00

 

Sure you can continue to play the game and win but I have always loved my stats and to be honest I used to relly on a business model. Buy an unproven youngster promote him get him to score a couple of goals assists and then sell him for profit till I build my team..  


Thats my two cents

 

P.S If you get a workign tactic and smash everything and play a team as Man Utd ect sure you can somehow get a decent rating from aplayer of two but when you are fighting for top half finish its  awful to see your whole team average 6.50 for the season 

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@Toshevbgg

With regard to the update schedules, there is no history in previous versions of any update after the Feb/Mar data updates unless there is a major technical issue and so there will not be any more updates for FM 21, as far as we know.

With regard to the player ratings, you have regularly expressed your opinion recently in several threads about this and have have made your point very clearly.  I would ask, however that you move on from here, please.

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1 hour ago, FrazT said:

Pitch wear was a real issue in the early betas and it had been taken too far- consequently I think that they went back to the drawing board, so apart from making sure that your graphics driver on your toaster is fully updated, I doubt that there is much that you can do at the moment.

This would kind of make sense but I'm getting no weather effects whatsoever, just looks like the exact same subbuteo pitch whatever the conditions - which is the graphics slider which affects this? They're all set to medium atm so I'm wondering if the game is just like this by design, if so it could do with some improvement imo. 

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2 hours ago, Danchinaski said:

Possibly not the right thread to drop this but has anyone else noticed the pitch graphics are significantly poorer now than they were in fm17? For example I've just played on a pitch so terrible the media made a fuss about it, but it still looked like a snooker table on the match screen, kind of ruins the immersion somewhat. I'm running medium graphics on a toaster laptop, is there any tweaking l should do to improve this? 

From Memory and my memory is crap ATM . :) But i think the graphics after 2017 were outsourced to another company or something like that . Yes the pitch and weather effects were good then but rubbish now . Even the Pre-Game editor , when making stadiums , has the option of pitch conditions ranging from poor , average , good and very good but in the game its the same pitch 

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58 minutes ago, FrazT said:

@Toshevbgg

With regard to the update schedules, there is no history in previous versions of any update after the Feb/Mar data updates unless there is a major technical issue and so there will not be any more updates for FM 21, as far as we know.

With regard to the player ratings, you have regularly expressed your opinion recently in several threads about this and have have made your point very clearly.  I would ask, however that you move on from here, please.

Well its about time they changed there tactics then , just like in the game it becomes monotonous , as does these updates especially when we are asked to log bugs and we wait patiently for the next update only to be disappointed that still after many years bugs never get fixed . Sorry but in @Toshevbggdefence our complaints are never heard because moderators shoot us down or lock the threads .  I don't log bugs anymore because it just isn't worth it . As an example i logged a bug in 2017 and every year after that still showed up in 2021 so i don't bother anymore as i think with a lot of players . This isn't a rant but more of a complaint . Im sure you will offer some sort of thought/excuse but its really not a good look and i would like to see a more dedicated forum towards bugs in this game rather than just logging them . It would be great to actually converse with people at SI through a forum about the bugs . 

 

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Not shooting your points down at all, but for some information here is a post from SI in another thread that gives some details of the procedures in place:

Just to clarify, when a bug is 'under review' it means our QA team are aware of it and it's been logged within our internal tracking system. 

Each bug will be categorised by a number of categories, including the priority for a fix and the severity of the issue. Given the amount of time and resource available, some issues won't be able to be fixed for FM21 and will instead be looked at for future versions of the game. This is especially the case with match engine issues, given even the slightest tweak can have considerable knock-ons which require a huge amount of resource to test and make sure any change is an improvement. 

Whilst there are always improvements to be made in our quest to make the game as close to real life as possible, the general consensus within the community is that this match engine is the strongest we've ever released, and at this stage of development there are no current plans for further updates for FM21. All under review issues on the forums will be considered and used as part of the larger scale plans, rewrites and improvements for future versions of Football Manager. 

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14 minutes ago, FrazT said:

Not shooting your points down at all, but for some information here is a post from SI in another thread that gives some details of the procedures in place:

Just to clarify, when a bug is 'under review' it means our QA team are aware of it and it's been logged within our internal tracking system. 

Each bug will be categorised by a number of categories, including the priority for a fix and the severity of the issue. Given the amount of time and resource available, some issues won't be able to be fixed for FM21 and will instead be looked at for future versions of the game. This is especially the case with match engine issues, given even the slightest tweak can have considerable knock-ons which require a huge amount of resource to test and make sure any change is an improvement. 

Whilst there are always improvements to be made in our quest to make the game as close to real life as possible, the general consensus within the community is that this match engine is the strongest we've ever released, and at this stage of development there are no current plans for further updates for FM21. All under review issues on the forums will be considered and used as part of the larger scale plans, rewrites and improvements for future versions of Football Manager. 

Yes i am well aware of the above procedures but obviously it needs refinements . And yes the 3D match engine is the best , No doubt about that at all . But then it seems its a strange coincidence that the FM20 Match engine was modified by Discord Korean Company through FMkorea that released a few match engines that were well above what SI had released in FM20 to such a great effect that SI started to discredit it and then this years game suddenly has a very good ME with the jason ME script now hidden so it cant be modified . Still no reason for bugs to exist in 5 years of programming either though . not saying for 1 minute they dont do a good job but improvements are needed i think . My opinion of course !! 

 

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8 hours ago, DAZZ67 said:

Some of the biggest managers never relied on wonderkids (Mourinho). Some prefer to develop their own players rather than going to the market (Zidane). Some use their unparalleled man-management to overpower players potential (Simeone). Some are astute managers who can adapt anywhere and create a solid bond within the group (Ancelotti). 

Mourinho never rely on wonderkids but he benefited massively from the huge spending during his time at Chelsea and Real Madrid. Look at how he struggled in Tottenham now.

You mean the same Zidane who can afford to have 60M players sitting on the bench? And I struggled to come up with one player that he develop during his stint at Real Madrid. Asensio and Vazquez maybe? Vinicius and Rodrygo came from the transfer market so they do not count. (Asensio and Vazquez too but I will give a pass on them)

And I am not so sure about Simeone ability to overpower player potential. I will pick Pochettino every time over Simeone.

The truth is to succeed you need the best players. Relying on man management or tactics alone can only get you so far.

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If I hadn't read some comments I wouldn't have known that my DLP has a lot of key passes due to the corners. It's insane, 8 to 10 key passes per match all of them in corners

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3 hours ago, zyfon5 said:

Mourinho never rely on wonderkids but he benefited massively from the huge spending during his time at Chelsea and Real Madrid. Look at how he struggled in Tottenham now.

You mean the same Zidane who can afford to have 60M players sitting on the bench? And I struggled to come up with one player that he develop during his stint at Real Madrid. Asensio and Vazquez maybe? Vinicius and Rodrygo came from the transfer market so they do not count. (Asensio and Vazquez too but I will give a pass on them)

And I am not so sure about Simeone ability to overpower player potential. I will pick Pochettino every time over Simeone.

The truth is to succeed you need the best players. Relying on man management or tactics alone can only get you so far.

Lol

Zidane helped develop Casemiro, Valverde, Vazquez, just to name a few. His president buys players, but ZZ would play the same team for years.

Not sure about Simeone? Was Llorente the player he is when he arrived? Godin? Luis Filipe? Miranda? Carrasco? Come on...

 

You don’t need to buy the best players, you need to make yours be the best version of themselves. In your world, Atalanta doesn’t even exist. Many great teams were build for cheap actually. Klopp’s BVB, Sarri’s Napoli, Pochettino’s Spurs. They did not all win silverware, but were so close to

 

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2 hours ago, DAZZ67 said:

Lol

Zidane helped develop Casemiro, Valverde, Vazquez, just to name a few. His president buys players, but ZZ would play the same team for years.

Not sure about Simeone? Was Llorente the player he is when he arrived? Godin? Luis Filipe? Miranda? Carrasco? Come on...

 

You don’t need to buy the best players, you need to make yours be the best version of themselves. In your world, Atalanta doesn’t even exist. Many great teams were build for cheap actually. Klopp’s BVB, Sarri’s Napoli, Pochettino’s Spurs. They did not all win silverware, but were so close to

 

You do realized that casemiro and valverde, Vasquez all had successful loan spells at other teams before getting more regular playing time under zidane right? Taking a regular starter from a midtable team and incorporate them as a rotation player in a top team can hardly be called as player development in my opinion.

Simeone is good for maximizing players that fits his system. But I doubt players like Felipe luis (who flopped at Chelsea) or Carrasco could find success in another top European team. So he did not really develop the players.

Klopp BVB, Sarri Napoli, Pochettino spurs all had players that went on to achieve success in another top team. So they have some really good players and hence my point stands. It is not like they have a bunch of average players that somehow become so successful as a team. And they do buy players with high potential and developing them which you so despise of. What else should we use to objectively measure success other than silverware?

Edited by zyfon5
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12 hours ago, Danchinaski said:

Possibly not the right thread to drop this but has anyone else noticed the pitch graphics are significantly poorer now than they were in fm17? For example I've just played on a pitch so terrible the media made a fuss about it, but it still looked like a snooker table on the match screen, kind of ruins the immersion somewhat. I'm running medium graphics on a toaster laptop, is there any tweaking l should do to improve this? 

Haha exactly! Poorer graphics in a game 5 years on. How does that happen in gaming???? Couldn’t agree more. I’m beginning to think they must have been under some copyright threat for the graphics code in 17. It suddenly got much worse in 18 and is still worse than 17 even now. I’ve asked it before and I’ll probably ask it again but which other game gets away with a worsening product?

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7 hours ago, Nick_CB said:

If I hadn't read some comments I wouldn't have known that my DLP has a lot of key passes due to the corners. It's insane, 8 to 10 key passes per match all of them in corners

You assume your player's playing awesome, creating chances left, right & centre until it twigs it set-pieces all of these chances are coming from then you crash back down to Earth & can't unsee it  

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On 3/17/2021 at 2:35 PM, Neil Brock said:

I've seen a couple of posts on average ratings, just to clarify that the rating system has undergone some significant changes for FM21. Note that the average rating is 6.8; Any value above this indicates performance above average, any value below (you get the idea).

Where in previous versions players got a big boost for goals and assists (even touches from a yard) this year, it was nuanced a bit more to take into account the roles of the players and what happens within the game at a level deeper. This means that the seasonal average rating of 8 and above is a thing of the past.

 

What I read between lines is: "guys I don't know what we've done but get used to this because we don't know how to solve it"

"We have qualified according to player roles"

Yes, but the rival goalkeepers exceed the rating of 7 every game (laughs)

Anyway, I've been buying from fm15 and I think "my biggest mistake" was entering this forum on fm20 and realizing the errors that it has every year and that are not solved.

What bothers me the most is that after the fm20 problems I thought that fm21 would be more polished but what I find is a degradation in the most basic and important of this game (AI, statistics, ratings, analysis, interface, etc, etc etc etc etc) Only a brighter ME but as they say in my country "all that glitters is not gold".

Immersion shattered by the non-compilation of statistics or the bad compilation of statistics and an AI that every year has less than "intelligent".

We have received the latest update and this game remains as is. Very disappointing.

These have been the hours of fm20 compared to fm21

I'm not going to be fooled by any promotional video, it's all smoke

M.png

D.png

(With this I am not saying that FM20 was better than FM 21, I simply wanted to illustrate the fatigue and frustration with Sigames)

Edited by Karl Krammer (KK)
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I'll be honest I've done a lot of complaining this year but two things I do love are the new interface and how optimised the game is in terms of saving and how quickly it runs.

I know theres been a lot of discussion about the interface but I for one love it, theres still some tweaking to do but I believe it's an improvement on previous versions. I also really like the addition of greeting players with a handshake etc, small feature but helps the immersion IMO.

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  • Neil Brock changed the title to Football Manager 2021 Official Feedback Thread

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