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Creating a direct 3412


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hey, I'm starting a new game and want to try with Inter. Due to the players they have I want to start with a 3412 formation and to take a more direct-attacking approach then they do in real life. I would like some feedback on the choice of roles and duties as generally I go for more patient possession based formations rather than direct & attack minded, but I wanted the change and I'm not sure what I've selected will work, especially the front 3. Thanks for your feedback in advance

 

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All of your most advanced players are on attack. You want to play direct football so you can use both forwards on attack. CAM can be a connection point between midfielders & forwards with a support duty.

MEZs is too risky to use in a 2 CM combination. A support duty role except it will be more stable.

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Having a DLP or any players with dictates tempo might ‘ruin’ your tactic a bit, as they’ll look for the DLP first, who will then launch those passes. But DLP with higher tempo might work? As he’ll slow the tempo down once in awhile which can give variety.

Playing out of defence also will slow the game down, as they’ll look to pass to each other or the midfielders. In positive mentalities attacking players by default have more direct passes and defenders shorter passes, so this instruction will slow the game a bit.

BUT try it for 2-3 official matches (not preseason) and see how it plays out.

I’d probably change to a 3412 with wingbacks too instead of midfielders, because a flat midfield implies more attacking intent. DWs don’t cover space on defence as well as WB just because of their positioning. They intercept balls, press high and run INTO the space at the wings to defend it if someone is running there if they have the right attributes. Unless your plan is to win the ball high and in the middle of the pitch (that’s your plan, right?)

I also feel force opposition outside isn’t that great as it’s more of a counter instruction (lure them down the flank to cross), but this is just how it looks in my head. I suggest playing without that instruction first, see how you’re defending, then try it for a bit to see how it works for you.

if I were you, I’d remove all the instructions in possession as this is already naturally direct (two forwards on attack duty with an SS).

 

Edited by backpocket
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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the feedback, I have made some updates to the player roles and tweaked the TI's a bit. I removed Play out of defence as I thought this could affect my aim of having a more direct playing style.

I tweaked the outside CB's as well to include 'stay wider' - not sure if that helps to cover for the DWs?

I did last year try WBs on another tactic, but only for a short time and I wasn't that happy with the support they provided and thought to try a Winger and DW here as its a stronger team. I will try for a bit and see whether switching the DLP-D to a CM-D could improve things

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Edited by Vega09
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I’m running a pretty similar system  with Livorno (now in Serie B in my second year) and it’s been fantastic. I personally have been loving the DW/WM in the 3atb shape. It’s so much more proactive than with WBs You might be a bit open with the full on winger on the right but overall it’s surprisingly good defensively. I actually liked your MEZ in the first tactic, and I pair it with a CAR (my player acts like a more dynamic playmaker in this role), and an AM(s), but yours looks good as well.

I think you’ll find that with your aggressive defensive TIs you’ll end up with a possession tactic again, though. I’m doing it on purpose, but I’m averaging 58% possession per game with similar TIs (though I have a balanced mentality and default pressing) This is despite being newly promoted!

Your TIs make it look more like gegen (winning the ball back high and when the opposition is disorganized) which might be what you’re looking for but won’t result in as much direct play.
If you really want to play direct and on the counter, you might need to pull your lines back a bit to pull the opposition out. If you want a slightly less aggressive gegenpress which will probably result in lots of possession then you’ll do well here.

 

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4 hours ago, Vega09 said:

I tweaked the outside CB's as well to include 'stay wider' - not sure if that helps to cover for the DWs?

If you mean shielding, during defensive transitions it will be the CMs who will shield the CBs and slow attacking opponents.

If you mean direct balls to the space outside, I believe Stay wider only applies during attacking phase, and the CBs will tuck in anyway. So what actually helps to stop that when you lose the ball is counterpressing and more aggressive pressing because they’ll stop the opponents from having time to pick out the pass. It won’t stop all the balls, but it can be enough to slow them down.

4 hours ago, Vega09 said:

I will try for a bit and see whether switching the DLP-D to a CM-D could improve things

He’ll just keep it simple and pass it on then hold position. If you like the CM role, you should think about adding ‘stay wider’ to provide support to the winger. But monitor your games and see if it’s needed. Moving wider could also give the AM more space.

A DLP will move around to collect the ball and pass it. Because of this they’ll naturally move slightly wider to offer a passing option when the ball is at the flank near them. You could add ‘More Direct Passes’ and/or ‘Take more risks’ if that’s what you like, as in everyone looking for the playmaker and he makes the direct pass for the forwards.

You can also think about giving your AM a more aggressive duty. When he’s on support he’ll drop deeper, so sometimes you’ll see the 3 midfielders in midfield holding hands. A Shadow Striker is actually great here, because the AF and PF do tend to run into the channels, creating space for the SS to receive crosses and cutbacks.

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Thanks again for the feedback. My thinking was with the TI's to win the ball back early and up the pitch and yes I can see your point that this will not really be that direct, that would be better to sit back and hit on the counter. Wasn't what I had in mind initially but its more my preferred style of football - so will stick with it 

I've made a few more minor tweaks. 

- Changed from a W to a DW but with the PI 'Get Further Forward' - decided that it may be better to start a bit more defensively sound, will see how the role plays, and I can try against weaker opposition if switching to a W works

- Changed the AM(S) to AM(A) - I will try the SS role as well but I'm not sure the traits of Eriksen lend themselves well to this role and he will likely play more than Sensi. I'd like in the future to bring Zaniolo back who I think could do really well in this role.

- Added 'Take more risks' to the DLP based on your suggestion, will see how it goes

I'm still running through pre-season but a 5-2 win over Atletico Madrid was nice. 

image.thumb.png.ba2be8d5e48bc16de9bf705736f97a20.png

 

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9 minutes ago, Vega09 said:

Thanks again for the feedback. My thinking was with the TI's to win the ball back early and up the pitch and yes I can see your point that this will not really be that direct, that would be better to sit back and hit on the counter. Wasn't what I had in mind initially but its more my preferred style of football - so will stick with it 

I've made a few more minor tweaks. 

- Changed from a W to a DW but with the PI 'Get Further Forward' - decided that it may be better to start a bit more defensively sound, will see how the role plays, and I can try against weaker opposition if switching to a W works

- Changed the AM(S) to AM(A) - I will try the SS role as well but I'm not sure the traits of Eriksen lend themselves well to this role and he will likely play more than Sensi. I'd like in the future to bring Zaniolo back who I think could do really well in this role.

- Added 'Take more risks' to the DLP based on your suggestion, will see how it goes

I'm still running through pre-season but a 5-2 win over Atletico Madrid was nice. 

image.thumb.png.ba2be8d5e48bc16de9bf705736f97a20.png

 

Good times. This formation is very good for applying pressure high up th pitch. I think you’ll do very well, curious to see how it works for you.

As @backpocketmentioned, the trouble comes against 4-2-3-1, or really any formation with two strikers and an attacking mid. It actually lines up surprisingly well against 4-3-3 unless they’re really focusing down the wings. The wide CBs cover well against the three forwards and the CMs provide good cover too to maintain numerical superiority. At least that’s what I’ve found!

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