Multiple attempts at untraining a PPM

[riv3th3ad]

It's rare that I've tried removing PPMs from players but I've signed a winger who's best attributes are dribbling and speed who came to me with "tries first time shots" PPM. I tried to train it off him but it didn't work. Is there a chance it will work on another attempt? Should I try it with a different coach or is another attempt a waste of time?

[Experienced Defender]

How old is the player and what are his stats for teamwork, work rate and determination? Also, what is his personality?

[riv3th3ad]

5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

How old is the player and what are his stats for teamwork, work rate and determination? Also, what is his personality?

25 years old, Balanced personality

Teamwork: 10

Work Rate: 11

Determination: 10

[Keyzer Soze]

This is something that i've been noticing since FM19.

Players learn new traits with ease, but it's very hard for them to unlearn a trait.

I've try to get Darwin Núnez to unlearn the trait "likes to try to beat offside trap" and so far with no luck. He is been trayint to unlearn it for more than a year. He has determination (16), teamwork (16) and work rate (17).

In FM19 and FM20 i've try to get Fiorentino Luis to unlearn the trait "play simple passes" and with no sucess. He has determination (15), teamwork (17) and work rate (15).

Don't know if this is a issue, or something intended...

[Experienced Defender]

13 hours ago, riv3th3ad said:

Teamwork: 10

Work Rate: 11

Determination: 10

Well, that might be the reason. But given that it's not my area of competence, take my answer with a pinch of salt.

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, Keyzer Soze said:

This is something that i've been noticing since FM19.

Players learn new traits with ease, but it's very hard for them to unlearn a trait.

I've try to get Darwin Núnez to unlearn the trait "likes to try to beat offside trap" and so far with no luck. He is been trayint to unlearn it for more than a year. He has determination (16), teamwork (16) and work rate (17).

In FM19 and FM20 i've try to get Fiorentino Luis to unlearn the trait "play simple passes" and with no sucess. He has determination (15), teamwork (17) and work rate (15).

Don't know if this is a issue, or something intended...

The problem might arise when the player does not possess suitable attributes for that trait in the first place. As is simetimes the case with the starting players. Like why does Darwin Nunez have "beat the offside trap" when he has really low "off the ball" (10 I believe)? He wouldn't even be able to learn it in the first place. Then with Luis I think he is not the most technical passer and yet has "short passing". A trait which is usually reserved for very technical players. So as counterintuitive as it is, maybe you need to improve the relevant attributes before your player can unlearn the trait. Same as requirements for learning them. But I'm not a developer so maybe someone with more technical knowledge of the game could back this throry up?

Edited April 16, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Keyzer Soze]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

The problem might arise when the player does not possess suitable attributes for that trait in the first place. As is simetimes the case with the starting players. Like why does Darwin Nunez have "beat the offside trap" when he has really low "off the ball" (10 I believe)? He wouldn't even be able to learn it in the first place. Then with Luis I think he is not the most technical passer and yet has "short passing". A trait which is usually reserved for very technical players. So as counterintuitive as it is, maybe you need to improve the relevant attributes before your player can unlearn the trait. Same as requirements for learning them. But I'm not a developer so maybe someone with more technical knowledge of the game could back this throry up?

Thks for the reply, but that theory don't makes much sense to me.

Pretty much what you are saying is....because the player is awful at one thing he can't stop doing it? 

I can understand that line of thinking in terms of learning he traits, and if that really works that way in the game then fantastic job from SI. But to unlearn trait it should work precisely the other way around: If a player has a trait and don't have the necessary attributes to use that trait in the best way, then it should be even easier for him to unlearn it.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Keyzer Soze

[crusadertsar]

Just now, Keyzer Soze said:

Thks for the reply, but that theory don't makes much sense to me.

Pretty much what you are saying is....because the player is awful at one thing he can't stop doing it? 

I can understand that line of thinking in terms of learning he traits, and he that really works that way in the game then fantastic job from SI. But to unlearn trait it should work precisely the other way around: If a player has a trait and don't have the necessary attributes to use that trait in the best way, then it should be even easier for him to unlearn it.

It doesn't make sense to me either. But it is a video game and in the past weird things like that happened. It really depends on how this is coded behind the hood. Which is why I suggested that someone with more intimate knowledge of the inner workings chip in. I have seen same problem too. Usually with newgens with "bad" traits who couldn't unlearn them. And in all cases their attributes were not very good for those traits.

[Freakiie]

2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

The problem might arise when the player does not possess suitable attributes for that trait in the first place. As is simetimes the case with the starting players. Like why does Darwin Nunez have "beat the offside trap" when he has really low "off the ball" (10 I believe)? He wouldn't even be able to learn it in the first place. Then with Luis I think he is not the most technical passer and yet has "short passing". A trait which is usually reserved for very technical players. So as counterintuitive as it is, maybe you need to improve the relevant attributes before your player can unlearn the trait. Same as requirements for learning them. But I'm not a developer so maybe someone with more technical knowledge of the game could back this throry up?

Uhmmm, it's the exact opposite? The trait is "plays short simple passes", which is for players that are not technical. So if Luis is a poor passer, then it's going to be rather hard to unlearn the trait, as it's meant for poor passers.

If a player has a trait that's not suited to them (and your coaches agree on that), I've generally managed to get rid of unwanted PPMs, although at times it did take a few tries. Even managed to get rid of "shoots from distance" on my AMC at one point. If your guy has "likes to beat offside trap" with 10 OTB it probably would be possible to get rid of it (assuming his other relevant attributes aren't high either, I'm guessing stuff like Anticipation/Acceleration also matters).

 

[crusadertsar]

22 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

Uhmmm, it's the exact opposite? The trait is "plays short simple passes", which is for players that are not technical. So if Luis is a poor passer, then it's going to be rather hard to unlearn the trait, as it's meant for poor passers.

If a player has a trait that's not suited to them (and your coaches agree on that), I've generally managed to get rid of unwanted PPMs, although at times it did take a few tries. Even managed to get rid of "shoots from distance" on my AMC at one point. If your guy has "likes to beat offside trap" with 10 OTB it probably would be possible to get rid of it (assuming his other relevant attributes aren't high either, I'm guessing stuff like Anticipation/Acceleration also matters).

 

So for a short passing Tiki Taka style you don't want very technical players with great passing then? 

Edited April 16, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Freakiie]

17 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

So for a short passing Tiki Taka style you don't want very technical players with great passing then? 

Those are two completely different things. Why do you think it's called simple passes?

The PPM is for players like CBs, Anchor Men, DM(D) etc that you just want to win the ball and then hand the ball to the nearest technical player that can actually do something with the ball. There's a reason it is incompatible with "tries killer balls often".

[crusadertsar]

18 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

Those are two completely different things. Why do you think it's called simple passes?

The PPM is for players like CBs, Anchor Men, DM(D) etc that you just want to win the ball and then hand the ball to the nearest technical player that can actually do something with the ball. There's a reason it is incompatible with "tries killer balls often".

True. My bad. I think we were talking about two different things. I forgot that there was the "simple" part in that trait. Thought it was just short passes haha