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Hi all,

Really struggling to get my head around focus play this year. I was always under the impression that if I focused play to the right, it would tell my team to attempt more attacks on the right flank. My understanding now is that this will make my team try to play more in that area AND shift central players more to the right to support this.

My thinking always used to be for an effective wing play tactic, I'd focus play to both wings. However, I've read a lot on here that suggests I should actually be focusing play down the middle as this then exposes the flanks. But I thought that by focusing play in the middle, my wingers would be a lot more narrow to support this and my team wouldn't look to pass there as much?

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Play with no focus passing TIs, how does the team formulate attacks? Assuming a given formation uses fullbacks, wingers etc with no added PIs and basic roles, the most likely scenario will be the MEs interpretation of positions and how they play. Perfect example, the NN or Inverted FB, still being found going full Bobby Carlos on the flanks. Default. 
 

Common-sense would assume the brains behind the game plugged in team width equating to play in the flanks. A wider attacking approach paired with focused passing in a particular flank or both might bring more emphasis in the wings.

Haven't had any issues in this regard but haven’t focused on one particular side, unless situational ie. following opposition sending off. 

Good luck. 

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Intersting thread.

For example, if i'm playing with a 4123 with DM formation, or a 4231 formation, and facing a opponet with a narrow formation (for example the 41212), whould i use the TI's to explore the flanks? My common sense says that it«s the right thing to do.

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Would assume the team being set to play with attacking width plays it’s part. Using the flanks in this instance will exploit the narrowness, but not without compromising compaction in the middle. 

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None of the instructions do anything.

Theres loads of variables that go into how your team plays and clicking an instruction doesnt mean theyll do anything.

Most instructions are totally useless.

Just focus on a sold formation and set up of roles, factoring in their traits.

Thats 90% of the battle.

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1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

Which one's do nothing @FMunderachiever?? I find most of them do 

I should have been more detailed.

The instructions are a much SMALLER factor than the roles, and the traits.

If you tick "play out of defence"..... that instruction wont do anything if you have players who attempt long passes. or are bad passers.

working ball into box is mostly useless.

Pass into space is a decent one though.

I use roles to create overloads rather than focusing play.

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1 minute ago, FMunderachiever said:

I should have been more detailed.

The instructions are a much SMALLER factor than the roles, and the traits.

If you tick "play out of defence"..... that instruction wont do anything if you have players who attempt long passes. or are bad passers.

working ball into box is mostly useless.

Pass into space is a decent one though.

I use roles to create overloads rather than focusing play.

Very true, I can't see how, say, focus play though the right flank is any different from putting a playmaker out on the right flank. I know what the description says & what Youtuber's say goes on under the hood, but I really don't see any difference on the pitch when using a focus play 

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Before FM21; focus play allowed players in the focused areas to make more forward runs. But other players couldn't always feed these runs. In FM21 focus play also effects passes not only runs. 

@Domoboy23If you want to overload an area you can use focus play to bring players closer to that area when the ball is there. If you want to isolate your wide players for finding them more space; you can use narrower/standard attacking width (depending on mentality) with stay wider PI for wide attacker. Focus play through the middle brings players closer when the ball is played to the central areas. It also effects both passing and running directions; consequently there can not be so many wide attacking runs. To counter this; a more attack minded role can be used with stay wider in wide positions.

edit: I tested focus play and wanted to fix this post. Focus play doesn't bring all players closer to focused area. Focus to flanks created wide overloads with 2-3 players which played on wide areas or closer to wide. Focus to center created central overloads with 4-5 players which played on central areas and close to center.

Edited by zabyl
edit: tested and added info.
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2 minutes ago, zabyl said:

 

@Domoboy23If you want to overload an area you can use focus play to bring players closer to that area when the ball is there. 

Does it though? I'm genuinely interested because I notice zero difference if it's on or not. Without any of the options ticked, were the ball is the players will move too. They don't hang to the left if I'm using focus down the left for example, the players will still move to the centre or wide to support play as normal 

I remember Rashidi explaining on one of his videos, focus through the centre can help reduce the ball going wide & preventing the blocked crosses people were having trouble with, I noticed zero difference in play, players weren't more focused on making internal passes, they just played like normal   

Seeing it in play were the instruction is affecting something would actually help explain it or having a "under the hood" explanation from a dev or someone could clear up because reading all the theory on it is fine but I can't see what's supposed to be going on or fully understand what's supposed to change. The bigger effect I see is from my linuep of roles & the oppositions selection   

 

 

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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Does it though? I'm genuinely interested because I notice zero difference if it's on or not. Without any of the options ticked, were the ball is the players will move too. They don't hang to the left if I'm using focus down the left for example, the players will still move to the centre or wide to support play as normal 

I remember Rashidi explaining on one of his videos, focus through the centre can help reduce the ball going wide & preventing the blocked crosses people were having trouble with, I noticed zero difference in play, players weren't more focused on making internal passes, they just played like normal   

Seeing it in play were the instruction is affecting something would actually help explain it or having a "under the hood" explanation from a dev or someone could clear up because reading all the theory on it is fine but I can't see what's supposed to be going on or fully understand what's supposed to change. The bigger effect I see is from my linuep of roles & the oppositions selection   

 

 

I understand your approach and I want to add that PPMs / roles / PIs effect play more according to TIs. But focus play effects passing and forward runs. I tested again. I used universalist roles and no playmaker with a 4-2-3-1.

GKs - RFBs - RCBd - LCBd - LFBs - RCMs - LCMd - CAMs - RWs - LIWa - AFa

When I used focus to wings; players preferred to pass to flanks more. IWa-Ws-FBs played wider with/without ball. Players dribbled/passed more to wide areas. Forward runs came from wide players. When I used focus to center; players preferred to pass/dribble to central areas more. Forward runs came from central players. Both 2 focus TIs did not bring players closer. Focus TIs only effected passing/dribbling directions in play and it effected intensity of forward runs with selected areas.

I'm agree that focus play doesn't get them closer.

I'm also agree with Rashidi's thoughts about decreasing crosses.

Edited by zabyl
added last 2 lines.
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This subject pops up just as I am admiring a goal which I believe is a perfect example of using the focus play mechanism. For me it's not about how many people we can get to one side of the pitch it's how many people we can get the other team to move to the one side of the pitch and here in more than half of one side of the pitch we have just 2 opposition players defending so we have drawn 7 opposition players to the to the left allowing us a 3/4 on 2 advantage on the right.

image.png.fda5a7463d70b5ec551a85975e6e5246.png

By the time my playmaker gets the ball to Cristante you can see Mkihitayan has actually moved their number four closer to the overload thus giving Pedro a clear path to goal. 

image.png.f91249f51162090bc863c6960c2bfcd2.png

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I've just played the same game 4 times, bland tactic, no PPMs on the players to see if I could tell what Focus play did. At times I thought I could, maybe once or twice a game but that could've just been how the match played out. I didn't see the players move any differently, I didn't see the focus of play gravitate to a certain area & the affect of runs wasn't any different

Tactic.png.f6173b994d9d0816ec159378bd5dfb27.png

 

Here's the average position on the ball of all the players, I played the same 11 for the whole 90 in each game  

I won't say which is which, just see if anyone can tell any difference because I can't:

A)

1986074505_FocusNone.png.d1fa94b27296a52ed6713c4bc1f3dcf7.png

B)

512730825_Focusleft.png.f1a74f7cdf935289444ab91260f83864.png

C)

1592767771_FocusCentre.png.5058e1af98d51b9b5ad9adfced313543.png

D)

1915122832_Focusright.png.4d04d747730cf3f3ba166735c100bd32.png

 

I've no idea why the other team's keeper shows on that last one :D

Can't really pick out anything in the player stats either that screams out "you were focusing play"

 

Edited by Johnny Ace
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Focus play is all about bait and switch. I look to attack one area to to exploit another. 

Have a look at Rashidi's Bayern replication for a really good example of focus play in action

 

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9 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I've just played the same game 4 times, bland tactic, no PPMs on the players to see if I could tell what Focus play did. At times I thought I could, maybe once or twice a game but that could've just been how the match played out. I didn't see the players move any differently, I didn't see the focus of play gravitate to a certain area & the affect of runs wasn't any different

Tactic.png.f6173b994d9d0816ec159378bd5dfb27.png

 

I wouldn't expect to see too many overloads with those roles tbh. I think the roles are key as well as making sure that you have a creative player situated in that overload in space with the passing range to be able to hit the open men who are now in space.

So you can see here from a previous thread I posted on where I took on a Wolves save how the overload has drawn 6 Aston Villa players over to the right side of the pitch and the very gifted playmakers(6) Moutinho and (8) Neves have both moved over to the right and both are in acres of space ready to hit a diagonal ball if called upon.

 

image.png.8b98b67f51117517ac591d19b2cbc8ed.png

image.png.df40273bd1582c36b1efe8fa4658c3c9.png

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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Yeah @Crazy_Ivanoverloads are awesome as said earlier in the thread with overlaps & playmakers, idea of the thread is to see what the TI, Focus Play actually does & no one's come up with an actual explanation yet :) All I've found is it makes zero difference to a tactic 

Edited by Johnny Ace
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2 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I wouldn't expect to see too many overloads with those roles tbh. I think the roles are key

:thup:

12 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

idea of the thread is to see what the TI, Focus Play actual does & no one's come up with an actual explanation yet :) All I've found is it makes zero difference to a tactic 

As explained so many times, instructions - including the focus - are effective only when they make sense as part of a tactic as a whole, of which the setup of roles and duties is the most important part. No instruction alone works like a magic bullet ;)

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19 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Yeah @Crazy_Ivanoverloads are awesome as said earlier in the thread with overlaps & playmakers, idea of the thread is to see what the TI, Focus Play actually does & no one's come up with an actual explanation yet :) All I've found is it makes zero difference to a tactic 

Rashidi says it in that Bayern thread that was linked to you by mad sheep.

On 24/11/2020 at 14:04, Rashidi said:

Focus play focuses passing down a specific area, players will also move towards these areas to support the passing focus. You can see from the images I linked above, when i build my play down the right flank, i create overloads down that flank. And as I explained the overloads allow me to counterpress very effectively when i have the ball. Naturally the quality of my counterpress will depend on the kind of players that i have. 

That's exactly what it does but it also has to be set up right. 

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

 No instruction alone works like a magic bullet ;)

They do in a way though, you can select any other TI & see what it actually does on the pitch.

You can play a Playmaker with an overlapping fullback on the right & have an attacking role wide left, whether you ask you team to focus down the right or not, they'll focus down the right. If you tick focus down the left, the playmaker sees no less of the ball, that's what I'm trying to get at    

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Yeah, Rashidi says in one of videos, I've already mentioned it, I don't find what he said to be the case at all, focusing on the centre doesn't bring players closer to the centre of the pitch or look for central options more. Looks at the average positions above   

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I don't know why you're mentioning average positions tbh average positions aren't really going to represent overloads that last not much more than 10 seconds in play.  I play a balanced mentality with a narrow ti setting and  focus set on to both flanks and it's palpable watching our players A)Focus attacks down the flanks when we win the ball back and B)Watch players gravitate to overload on flanks, especially my striker who is pivotal in creating overloads and space for the players on the opposite flank to attack quickly. This is confirmed to me when I analyse the stats.  What you set up with wingers and an advanced forward and fbs on support is not really conducive to using focus play in the game imo.

image.png.52902bda3fb4eedeb35f0b9c64de8bca.png

Focus1.PNG.ecd7d3aa3ccbddf347027f7d5e6d33b6.PNG

 

 

 

 

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I'm not on about overloads, if players are supposed to gravitate to a certain area of the pitch with the Focus Play, their average positions on the ball would show that surely? I'd expect more than 10 seconds of play over a game else it's pointless, unless I'm expecting too much? 

Do you know exactly what the Focus of Attacks map is showing you? I don't exactly, I think it's from the direction of the ball into the box & as far as I can tell it includes corners & freekicks so that skews it

I'll have a look from those games later on but I really doubt there'll be any significant differences. I went though all the player stats & they were pretty evenly spread through the team

The point I'm trying to make is, I can use Play out of Defense & see the team play out of defense, I can ask them to Shoot on Sight & they will, I can ask them to lower the tempo & they will, Play Narrower & I'll see it in game, when I use Focus Play I see no visible difference in the ME to if I wasn't using it 

Like, if you took off the focus down the flanks, would you see any change in your team's Focus of Attacks ? 

I dunno, I don't even use the instruction, I don't need too, I just want to see it doing something. For example, right now I'm using a 4-4-2, we attack mostly down the left because that's where I have an overlapping fullback, he finds space out on the left & puts the balls in. If I invert the roles, most of out attacks come down the right, I can see that in game & Focus of Attacks shows me that. We're vulnerable down that side too & see that. I don't use a focus play instruction. I'll try something out later  

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These questions have no answer.

There are a multiple factors that go into making overloads or using different sides of the pitch.

Just try things out and see the effect it has on a particular team you manage.

If all your players just moved over to the left, youd get pumped down the right.

Theres many many things going on.

Roles will always be the single biggest factor. instructions can do a little bit but wont do anything if the roles dont work for your players.

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Im confused. Overloads are the whole point here, it's exactly why you want certain people gravitating towards a certain part of the pitch.

I can't speak for Rashidis comments about focusing through the middle because I haven't seen it or indeed used it but I think the quote I posted above by Rashidi and what he laid out in that Bayern thread is exactly what happens in the game and exactly how it plays out for me. 

Btw the comment you made about playing out from the back further reinforces the point Experienced Defender was making. 

We have loads of people that come on here saying they use that TI and their defenders hoof it out from the back and therein is the issue. The way they setup their roles in the team and indeed the players they use in the system has an effect on playing out from the back just like how you would set up a team to take advantage of the focus ti.

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There's an in game mechanic for playing out from the back, it does something in the ME, your defenders & midfield line up to play out from the back, defenders hoofing the ball & what not doesn't mean playing out from the back does nothing 

You can overload a flank just fine through roles (like I've now mentioned 3 times) absolutely fine, been able to do that in game for years, possibly decades. If you play 3 playmakers in the middle  of the park with inside forwards you'd expect plenty of play in the middle of the pitch, absolutely etc  But what I'm saying is using the focus, does that actually reinforce it? Focusing down the left when you're overloading on the right, does it actually see less play down the right? Would Rashidi's tactic attack any less down the flanks without the TI selected? That's what I'm asking.  I'm going to try it out later on 

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"defenders hoofing the ball & what not doesn't mean playing out from the back does nothing" 

Absolutely, now apply this to what you have written about Focus play and the examples I have already given in this thread to prove that focus play works. So far your only rebuttal to me has been it might be corners or free kicks that adds to my stats. I really don't feel like I should have to provide a dozen examples from one game to prove my point but I am ready to do that.

 

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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12 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

"defenders hoofing the ball & what not doesn't mean playing out from the back does nothing" 

Absolutely, now apply this to what you have written about Focus play and the examples I have already given in this thread to prove that focus play works. So far your only rebuttal to me has been it might be corners or free kicks that adds to my stats. I really don't feel like I should have to provide a dozen examples to prove my point but I am ready to do that.

 

I'll try something later on @Crazy_Ivan. Teams will generally attack from the flanks more than the centre in a given tactic that's not what I'm getting at, I could post a dozen examples of where we've attacked down the flanks without any use of focus,  I want to see if they attack more using the focus down a certain area of the pitch than without it. I want to see how it affects the player's decisions on the pitch, because so far it doesn't. I know the tactic, the oppos' tactic, which way the wind's blowing etc will affect it  

ETA: I'm not rebutting you either, I'm genuinely interested in what the instruction actually does, not theoretically which is what I pretty much said in my first post in the thread 

Edited by Johnny Ace
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1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

I'm genuinely interested in what the instruction actually does, not theoretically

What the instruction actually does - not theoretically - is mentioned at the top of this pinned thread https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/531157-fm21-changes-that-affect-your-match-day-experience/.

However, the frequency and magnitude of it happening will be dictated by a whole host of factors (this TI being one of them), as indeed do a lot of tactical instructions.  I think this is where many people get confused (and where the game could be improved): they see an "instruction" and think that simply by clicking it they'll see a difference.  For example it's pretty common to see someone write their players still shoot from distance even though they select work ball into box and thus the ME is naff.  And the game leads us to think this whereas in reality it's just one factor of many that can influence things.  Not saying this is what you do Johnny, just an example :).

So yes this instruction can actually help to create overloads or focus passing, but the rest of the system needs to be set up in a complimentary fashion in order to have much of an effect.

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Now I am confused

In my doss about save, watching the full match, we've scored twice & won a couple of corners, my FOA shows nothing. Spurs win a corner & their FOA registers for winning a corner on the right?

The Spurs FOA graphic is showing down the left too?  ETA: Ah okay, with a bit of searching, this is a bug , that doesn't help things :D

 

lol.thumb.png.18a02c86ad387b96ef3fc1612b61ab1e.png

Edited by Johnny Ace
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On 25/03/2021 at 11:10, Johnny Ace said:

The point I'm trying to make is, I can use Play out of Defense & see the team play out of defense, I can ask them to Shoot on Sight & they will, I can ask them to lower the tempo & they will, Play Narrower & I'll see it in game, when I use Focus Play I see no visible difference in the ME to if I wasn't using it 

Like, if you took off the focus down the flanks, would you see any change in your team's Focus of Attacks ?

Did you look at the key pass combination too? it should be easier to see it from there I think 

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45 minutes ago, DarJ said:

Did you look at the key pass combination too? it should be easier to see it from there I think 

I didn't, where would I find that? 

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3 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I didn't, where would I find that? 

It's in the analysis tab, the you go to team and then passes

1734509471_analyticaldata.png.bc5e452cc5b110d208b36498c57f84e8.png

1935397890_passcomb.thumb.png.f5c7afa61f751b78066a969471bac9b8.png

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15 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

Passing combos is still broken on FM21, along with a lot of the other analysis data.

What other analysis data are broken?

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A fair bit unfortunately. It's not all detailed here, but I think there are some links to others in this thread

The FM21 feedback thread has loads of examples.

Edited by CaptCanuck
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On 26/03/2021 at 20:42, CaptCanuck said:

Passing combos is still broken on FM21, along with a lot of the other analysis data.

I don't understand, it works just fine for me. It wasnt in previous iterations but it is now.

Also btw that is a very good suggestion re: passing networks they very clearly display hoe focus play works.

Edited by Crazy_Ivan
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1 hour ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I don't understand, it works just fine for me. It wasnt in previous iterations but it is now.

Also btw that is a very good suggestion re: passing networks they very clearly display hoe focus play works.

Yeah they work fine for me. People might need to clear caches

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7 minutes ago, CaptCanuck said:

@Crazy_Ivan @themadsheep2001 - thanks for the tip folks! I will give that a go, as they are most definitely still crocked for me.

It was same for the stats per 90. Someone had them broken for months but they weren't for SI. They eventually did a cache clear. Also try verifying files again. Reminder that this will add back any deleted files so if you have removed any files to gain access to certain things not discussed here you will need to remove them again

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