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How would you go about setting up a 4-1-4-1?


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I am planning on starting a save with Southampton when the last update comes out and I am looking for "role" ideas about the pure 4-1-4-1. How would you set this up?

My aim is a possession based pressing style of football (I know, how original):

  1. I want my players to have low creative freedom, choose simple passing options and work the ball upfield slowly.
  2. I want to press for the ball and reduce the time the opposition has on the ball.
  3. High possession percantage.
  4. An okay number of goals.
  5. In this case success to me doesn't mean winning matches: success would mean seeing the style of play on the pitch.

image.png.6cdb876859c99a71038018076b57034c.png

 

My assumption is that every tactic can be made to work. It doesn't matter that it is a bottom-heavy tactic it can still be used by high reputaion teams. So my queestion really is that if you guys have any ideas for this tactic? (the only role set is a forward who is coming deep for the ball, it would have to be a DLF(S)/F9)

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First thing to consider is whether you have the right players for the formation and the style of play. Southampton play a 442 irl so you might be lacking midfielders and while also having a surplus of strikers. Southampton also press intensely, so without looking attributes I'm pretty sure you should have sufficient work rate. Playing out the back also shouldn't be an issue as Romeu and Ward Prowse and Vestegaard are pretty good on the ball iirc. I'm not convinced you have enough creativity though to break down tough defences, so it may be worth bringing in an advanced playmaker. If not, I think Armstrong could be creative enough if you retrain him as a CM, or play him as a wide playmaker.

I'd go with something like this:

image.png.d4dfeb8eaa7bd9bc615c8541fc872a5b.png

Since Southampton might get pressed quite a lot, it's worth having lots of players deep in the buildup, which is why I'd go with a HB and a DLP who will both drop fairly deep. Also with a DLFs, it would be good to have attacking players running beyond him to keep defenders occupied. (Although I would rather keep Ings as an attacking player as he is probably your best finisher by far)

In terms of instructions there's no reason not to use the control possession preset, unless you'd rather keep it basic in which case I'd just use a cautious mentality + POD and Shorter passing and hold shape on the ball. Also, I've never used a 4141 to press high.. I think a 4141 is best for a mid block, so you could just use counter press + lower loe + more intense pressing, otherwise I imagine that your midfielders will run outof position to close down high up the pitch making you a bit easy to play through. If you want to press higher, I would rather use a 433 with the same roles.

Edited by Jack722
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Sounds similar to a tactic I was using recently. High possession, but with low creativity as my players aren't great and a high press to prevent opposition time on the ball. I used a 4-3-3 DM wide, though. Not dissimilar from what you'd like in the 4-1-4-1, but it allowed for natural triangles in possession and more advanced players for the press. Here's a screenshot of my tactic:

c03729cf13a0310dee2552abf4eeb7dd.png

I opted for a cautious mentality, but used a much higher line (my defenders are absolutely rapid, but with no aerial ability) and a split press for my advanced players. This was largely influenced by example #3 in this post by @engamohd:

 

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James Ward-Prowse is star of this team I suppose. If I managed this team; I would consider building the team around him to use his abillities more. That's my style of play.

2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

(the only role set is a forward who is coming deep for the ball, it would have to be a DLF(S)/F9)

With deeper positioned wingers and midfielders; DLFs would be better for possession based tactics. Because DLFs has hold up ball PI that helps his teammates to come forward when he has the ball.

 

2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

I want my players to have low creative freedom, choose simple passing options and work the ball upfield slowly.

 

2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

High possession percantage.

Play out of defence. Short passing combined with narrower (but not extreme) attacking width. Work ball into box if there are too many needless shots when there are better options.

 

2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

I want to press for the ball and reduce the time the opposition has on the ball.

Higher LOE. Split block press if needed.

 

2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

An okay number of goals.

This can be provided with balanced mentality. No need to go for aggressive or defensive.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jack722 said:

I'd go with something like this:

image.png.d4dfeb8eaa7bd9bc615c8541fc872a5b.png

Not bad. But he wants some kind of patient possession football. This has 4 natural crossers. It is enough to go for FBs/a with a HB on dm. The full backs will be more advanced with a HB.

Edited by zabyl
some missing words.
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4 hours ago, Jack722 said:

First thing to consider is whether you have the right players for the formation and the style of play. Southampton play a 442 irl so you might be lacking midfielders and while also having a surplus of strikers. Southampton also press intensely, so without looking attributes I'm pretty sure you should have sufficient work rate. Playing out the back also shouldn't be an issue as Romeu and Ward Prowse and Vestegaard are pretty good on the ball iirc. I'm not convinced you have enough creativity though to break down tough defences, so it may be worth bringing in an advanced playmaker. If not, I think Armstrong could be creative enough if you retrain him as a CM, or play him as a wide playmaker.

I'd go with something like this:

image.png.d4dfeb8eaa7bd9bc615c8541fc872a5b.png

Since Southampton might get pressed quite a lot, it's worth having lots of players deep in the buildup, which is why I'd go with a HB and a DLP who will both drop fairly deep. Also with a DLFs, it would be good to have attacking players running beyond him to keep defenders occupied. (Although I would rather keep Ings as an attacking player as he is probably your best finisher by far)

In terms of instructions there's no reason not to use the control possession preset, unless you'd rather keep it basic in which case I'd just use a cautious mentality + POD and Shorter passing and hold shape on the ball. Also, I've never used a 4141 to press high.. I think a 4141 is best for a mid block, so you could just use counter press + lower loe + more intense pressing, otherwise I imagine that your midfielders will run outof position to close down high up the pitch making you a bit easy to play through. If you want to press higher, I would rather use a 433 with the same roles.

You are bang on about the squad structure. There are a number of strikers/wingers but the squad is lacking in fullbacks and more importantly central midfielders. Armstrong, Smallbone, Ward-Prowse, Romeu, Diallo maybe Watts. The creativity and quality is needed.

Regarding the tactic, I am curious why you chose WB on defend for the left side instead of support. (of course once we see the tactic play out I will be able to show some screenshots, but still I find it noteworthy.)

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4 hours ago, bibird. said:

Sounds similar to a tactic I was using recently. High possession, but with low creativity as my players aren't great and a high press to prevent opposition time on the ball. I used a 4-3-3 DM wide, though. Not dissimilar from what you'd like in the 4-1-4-1, but it allowed for natural triangles in possession and more advanced players for the press. Here's a screenshot of my tactic:

c03729cf13a0310dee2552abf4eeb7dd.png

I opted for a cautious mentality, but used a much higher line (my defenders are absolutely rapid, but with no aerial ability) and a split press for my advanced players. This was largely influenced by example #3 in this post by @engamohd:

 

Regarding low creative freedom, what do you think about the "be more disciplined" shout?

Cautious mentality and high line? Wouldn't you consider those opposing team instructions?

I also don't often see people use the hold position instruction, could you maybe show examples of how this instruction impacts your team? (if it's not too much bother)

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3 hours ago, zabyl said:

Split block press if needed.

Is that an "official" thing? As in I see Rashidi and other mention/use it but I always thought it was something similar to like when people talked about counterpressing in pre-FM19 versions. It might have looked like it but the game couldn't actually offer that.

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22 minutes ago, robot_skeleton said:

You are bang on about the squad structure. There are a number of strikers/wingers but the squad is lacking in fullbacks and more importantly central midfielders. Armstrong, Smallbone, Ward-Prowse, Romeu, Diallo maybe Watts. The creativity and quality is needed.

Regarding the tactic, I am curious why you chose WB on defend for the left side instead of support. (of course once we see the tactic play out I will be able to show some screenshots, but still I find it noteworthy.)

Not really sure tbh, I suggested those roles pretty much based on how I see Southampton play IRL, Bertrand is a lot more conservative and doesn't stand out too much (not in a bad way) while KWP is always getting forward, so I assumed it would match their attributes. You could use full backs as well if you wanted I guess, I'm still not entirely sure of the differences between all of the fullback roles (WBd vs FBa for example), so I normally adjust them slightly until I'm happy with how defensive / attacking the player is in game.

Edited by Jack722
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@robot_skeleton

It was not a counter-pressing trick in pre-FM19 versions. It only enforces the most advanced players to press more. Pressing TI has risks & rewards teamwise but split block pressing doesn't effect defensive shape too much.

Counter-pressing and high pressing are different things. Counter-pressing occurs at a certain level when the team losses the ball to opposition unless regroup TI is activated.

Edited by zabyl
corrected regroup ti
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If you want to press high and minimize the time where your opponent has the ball you should consider a formation that is quite top heavy.

4-1-4-1 is at most useable for a mid or low block press. It’s a very defensive formation.

also playing slow, short and without any creative freedom will most likely lead to nothing. 

im not quite sure where your inspiration comes from, but you should properbly rethink what you are really looking for. 

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26 minutes ago, CARRERA said:

4-1-4-1 is at most useable for a mid or low block press. It’s a very defensive formation.

it has a good defensive shape but with certain roles & PIs & TIs; a 4-1-4-1 can create some monsterous attacking football. Those deep runners are deadly in the series.

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3 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

Regarding low creative freedom, what do you think about the "be more disciplined" shout?

I'm already playing on a cautious mentality, so players will naturally be more risk averse and disciplined anyway. I still want players to be able to make their own decisions in certain situations.

3 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

Cautious mentality and high line? Wouldn't you consider those opposing team instructions?

Not at all. Cautious is a mentality, not a Team Instruction. The mentality you choose will alter your default TIs - consider it a way to decide how much risk you want to play with. I like to consider what I want my tactic to do when I choose a mentality, then use TIs to impart the style of play I ultimately want. I want to do this using as few TIs as possible, so it's easier to tweak when things aren't playing out as I'd like them to.

I play with a cautious mentality, as my players don't have great technical attributes and were expected to finish around 10th in the Finnish First Division. I want to play a controlling, disciplined possession game - if we have the ball, the opposition can't score - but if we have a deeper line, we'll invite pressure on closer to our own goal if we make a mistake in possession. Therefore, playing a much higher defensive line means our defenders will play closer to the half way line, but we'll still play cautious, patient passing in line with the cautious mentality.

Mentality sets the framework for your tactical style. TIs will give that framework flavour, based on your players attributes and your personal tactical preferences.

I'd definitely recommend reading the topic I shared in the previous post. It covers a lot with useful examples and is really enlightening. I used it when building the tactic I shared.

3 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

I also don't often see people use the hold position instruction, could you maybe show examples of how this instruction impacts your team? (if it's not too much bother)

I'm not playing FM currently, so don't have any concrete examples, but I see it happen in matches and can provide my reasoning for using it.

As I mentioned, my players aren't great and lack in decision making. My style of play is in no way built around counter attacking either, I don't want swift breaks into the opposition box and basketball transitions. I want us to win the ball back and then recommence strangling the life out of matches through possession. Sterile domination, as Arsene Wenger put it.

Hold position means, when we win the ball back, we look to reassert our domination on the ball. It's impact means players don't rush to take advanced positions, they'll hold their spot and offer a passing option for the guy who wins back the ball. If we keep our shape and our triangles, we keep the ball and don't offer easy chances for the opposition to score.

Having thought about it, this is my alternative to using be more disciplined. I want players to be disciplined in how they transition from defence to attack, but not also have the effect of potentially stifling players in the attacking phase.

Edited by bibird.
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8 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

(the only role set is a forward who is coming deep for the ball, it would have to be a DLF(S)/F9)

If playing possession football is your primary goal, then DLF on support would make more sense as the lone striker role than F9. 

Also, if you want to play possession football with a bottom-heavy formation such as the flat 4141, then I guess you'll need to be more aggressive in the defensive phase of play compared to more top-heavy systems. 

8 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

How would you set this up?

In terms of roles and duties, here is one possible option:

DLFsu

WMat   DLPsu   CMat   WMsu

HB

WBsu   CDde   CDde   IWBsu

SKde

As you can see, I intentionally opted for roles that do not tend to dribble a lot. 

When it comes to instructions, I always suggest starting with as few as possible and then gradually make tweaks if necessary. So for a possession-minded tactic, this would be my starting point:

- Balanced/Positive

- PoD & shorter passing

- counter-press

- higher D-line, higher LOE & more urgent pressing

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2 hours ago, CARRERA said:

If you want to press high and minimize the time where your opponent has the ball you should consider a formation that is quite top heavy.

4-1-4-1 is at most useable for a mid or low block press. It’s a very defensive formation.

also playing slow, short and without any creative freedom will most likely lead to nothing. 

im not quite sure where your inspiration comes from, but you should properbly rethink what you are really looking for. 

My inspiration is this post from the legend himself, Cleon. I have a mental fixation on creating somthing similar with 4-1-4-1. But having been miserably way off target throughout the years I starting to really not see this formation clearly?

For example, give me any 4-4-2 or 3/5 defense variant and I will be able to create a somewhat workable tactic. I see where the goals are coming from, which player does what, how we are defending. But with the 4-1-4-1 I do not clearly see the responsibilites and often find myself creating tactics without clearly defined roles.

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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

If playing possession football is your primary goal, then DLF on support would make more sense as the lone striker role than F9. 

Also, if you want to play possession football with a bottom-heavy formation such as the flat 4141, then I guess you'll need to be more aggressive in the defensive phase of play compared to more top-heavy systems. 

In terms of roles and duties, here is one possible option:

DLFsu

WMat   DLPsu   CMat   WMsu

HB

WBsu   CDde   CDde   IWBsu

SKde

As you can see, I intentionally opted for roles that do not tend to dribble a lot. 

When it comes to instructions, I always suggest starting with as few as possible and then gradually make tweaks if necessary. So for a possession-minded tactic, this would be my starting point:

- Balanced/Positive

- PoD & shorter passing

- counter-press

- higher D-line, higher LOE & more urgent pressing

? What is your reasoning for False9 not being ideal for a Possession system like 4-1-4-1? The role was created with a Possession tactics like 4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 in mind where it drops and two wide attackers run into space created. 

So I'm bit confused with the advise you are giving here.

The choice of False9 or DLF would be more dependent on the player he has. A more physical player might excell in DLF role. While a more agile, attacking playmaker who can also dribble would be a great False 9. Both will however depend on the movement of attackers around them, running into the channels. But both can be very good single central strikers in any Possession tactic. Again, provided you have an appropriate player to fill the role.

Edited by crusadertsar
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1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

? What is your reasoning for False9 not being ideal for a Possession system like 4-1-4-1? The role was created with a Possession tactics like 4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 in mind where it drops and two wide attackers run into space created.

I think the main reason is the PI to hold the ball. In a lone striker formation, that want to play possesion football, it's very useful imho. 

 

Edit: this is only related with the 4141 formation where the striker is more isolated. In, for example the 4123 wide DM, with the wide players closer to the striker, I think the F9 will work better. 

Edited by Keyzer Soze
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2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

My inspiration is this post from the legend himself, Cleon. I have a mental fixation on creating somthing similar with 4-1-4-1. But having been miserably way off target throughout the years I starting to really not see this formation clearly?

For example, give me any 4-4-2 or 3/5 defense variant and I will be able to create a somewhat workable tactic. I see where the goals are coming from, which player does what, how we are defending. But with the 4-1-4-1 I do not clearly see the responsibilites and often find myself creating tactics without clearly defined roles.

Well, 4-1-4-1 isn't bad at all. When creating a tactic it all comes down to understand how certain formations work and how the concept of taking risks is implemented by the tactical instructions. So first of all i would decide which kind of football i want to play in both defensive and offensive phase of the match and then pick a formation thats fitting. Obviously you can turn the process around and first pick a formation that fits to your players and then see which style of play it will suite.

So with a 4-1-4-1 chosen here lets have a look. With a DM in play and no offensive (wide)midfielder this formation is quite bottom heavy, which perfectly fits a slow build up from behind and a mid or lower defensive block. Sounds well suited for a team like Southhampton. So now that we know how we will most likely play we have to set up the correct TI's Lets start with your attacking play:

When building up slow with lower tempo and/or short passes you have to understand, that the oppositions defense will be in place before you will get into a scoring position. The question is tho how do you find that bit of space to create some promising goal scoring opportunities. The answer is you need to take more risks in certain areas. Create overlapping runs both central and wide, make wide players cutting inside, make central players going wide, have players roam around, use more creative freedom and flair, encourage more risks when passing either through the use of one or more playmakers or pass into space TI. The more you implement the more likely you will loose the ball or will be caught out of position, so you have to find the sweet spot for your team.

So now lets have a look at the defensive side of things. As mentined earlier with 4-1-4-1 you properbly want to press the middle of the pitch or even lower. Which obviously leaves some time in possession to the other team, but with no players up the pitch in your defensive formation a high press can destabalize your defensive play. Keep your LoE and Defensive line to standard or one notch Lower, keep in mind tho, that defensive line does also affect your offensive play. (a rather high defensive line does support short plays especially). This was about WHERE we are looking to defend. Now lets have a look HOW we like to defend. And as you mentioned earlier, you were looking for winning back the ball as quickly as possible. So basicly as soon as the opposition is leaving their own tird of the pitch at least when they enter your half of the pitch. So when it comes to winning the ball back quickly you again need to take higher risks, e.g. pressing intensity, defensive width, tackling intensity, tight marking. Once more, choose wisely as the more risks you are willing to take, the more its likely something will go wrong which properbly opens up a good opportunity for your opponent.

Las but not least make your choice about in transition instructions, which can help you complement your style of play or balancing out risks. Pick non or Regroup if you use a lot of overlapping runs to help your team reorganize when loosing the ball. Pick non or Hold Up when using a lot of attacking risks to give your players the time to make their runs and look for the overlap. Counter and Counterpress dont really fit the style of play. In terms of Goalkeeper instructions try to match your build up play. Slow/shot, involve CD's or DM.

Once your tactic is set up, looke for the role and tactical familarity before you adopt your tactics and add or remove instructions.

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2 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:
1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

? What is your reasoning for False9 not being ideal for a Possession system like 4-1-4-1? The role was created with a Possession tactics like 4-3-3 or 4-1-4-1 in mind where it drops and two wide attackers run into space created.

I think the main reason is the PI to hold the ball. In a lone striker formation, that want to play possesion football, it's very useful imho. 

Edited just now by Keyzer Soze

Exactly. DLFs helps to keep possession way better with that PI when played ahead of deeper wide/mid players. In a 4-1-2-3 both roles can work well of course.

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16 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

I think the main reason is the PI to hold the ball. In a lone striker formation, that want to play possesion football, it's very useful imho. 

 

Edit: this is only related with the 4141 formation where the striker is more isolated. In, for example the 4123 wide DM, with the wide players closer to the striker, I think the F9 will work better. 

Ok true. If it's a more defensive flat 4-1-4-1 then DLF would be a better option. 

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4 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

What is your reasoning for False9 not being ideal for a Possession system like 4-1-4-1?

For a more progressive possession style, F9 can be a good option. But for a more patient (hardcore) possession tactic, I would prefer the DLF because it also drops deeper to link up with the midfield, but:

1. it's not hard-coded to dribble (and is hence less likely to lose the ball/possession stupidly)

2. it is hard-coded to hold up the ball, which can be particularly useful in the OP's bottom-heavy formation 

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10 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Counterpress dont really fit the style of play

Why not? Is it mainly about the formation not having enough men forward?

Because if the transition is completed we should be able to have men in advanced positions.

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55 minutes ago, fmjeros said:

This article will certainly help you to understand the differnces between 433 and 4141 

https://themastermindsite.com/2019/04/10/4-3-3-vs-4-1-4-1-tactical-flexibility/

and this is how i play the 4141 based on that and some of pep's principles

4141pep.jpg.30a05ea223d8addaace24698535b35c9.jpg

That is a very interesting midfield line! How are you holding up defensively?

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2 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

Why not? Is it mainly about the formation not having enough men forward?

Because if the transition is completed we should be able to have men in advanced positions.

well, its not about where you want to press, the counterpress option is only about the transition phase immediatly after loosing the ball. As I mentioned earlier, you will have players move up the pitch and look for overlaps which makes you vulnerable when loosing the ball. So taking even more risks when you are already out of position can be counterproductive. So I'd suggest rather focus on getting back into position and then start to press the opponent.

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In a 4-1-4-1, which is my favourite formation, I have started to like the DLF on Attack duty as my striker. I don't care much for the Support duty and never have, but the Attack duty has things I like: holds up the ball, doesn't get further forward and therefore is pretty precious in ball retention, yet he provides better offensive runs than a striker on Support duty. Having the striker being a goal scoring threat is a bit more important in a 4-1-4-1 DM Flat because none of the other players are primary goal-scoring threats by nature of their role and duty. They also start their runs pretty low on the pitch and can arrive at the same time near the box, offering little depth instead of having layers of players arriving like a multistage rocket, where players arrive one after the other.

On a side note and because of the low starting position of your players, you can afford to be more aggressive with your pressing than you would be in a more top heavy formation if you want to get the ball back early. Your DM also easily will be the most important player of your team; maybe it's my bias because I spend a lot of time scouting for DMs that are technically able, but they really need to be able to sweep behind when the ball is lost without being pulled out of position, which can lead to very catastrophic results.

Edited by Xavier Lukhas
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1 hour ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

In a 4-1-4-1, which is my favourite formation, I have started to like the DLF on Attack duty as my striker. I don't care much for the Support duty and never have, but the Attack duty has things I like: holds up the ball, doesn't get further forward and therefore is pretty precious in ball retention, yet he provides better offensive runs than a striker on Support duty. Having the striker being a goal scoring threat is a bit more important in a 4-1-4-1 DM Flat because none of the other players are primary goal-scoring threats by nature of their role and duty. They also start their runs pretty low on the pitch and can arrive at the same time near the box, offering little depth instead of having layers of players arriving like a multistage rocket, where players arrive one after the other.

On a side note and because of the low starting position of your players, you can afford to be more aggressive with your pressing than you would be in a more top heavy formation if you want to get the ball back early. Your DM also easily will be the most important player of your team; maybe it's my bias because I spend a lot of time scouting for DMs that are technically able, but they really need to be able to sweep behind when the ball is lost without being pulled out of position, which can lead to very catastrophic results.

What about your midfield combination? That's the one usually giving me a headache.

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^Dont underestimate the power of the blank canvas ie. the bog standard midfielder...Central or Wide, the setting allows for great creative freedom as far tinkering with the PIs is concerned. If not mistaken, its free reign for both across almost, if not all mentalities. I may be wrong, but I get the impression the blankness of the canvas for the midfielder translates to greatest actualisation of instructions. For all the struggles getting fullbacks to sit narrow and play as quasi-centrehalves (giving more flank coverage than the wide running outside centre backs in a back three), the wide midfielder follows instructions to a T, regardless. 

With the midfield suitably anchored, there should be adequate cover in the defensive phase and transition to be more adventurous with the midfield quartet. Once in a while Rodgers rolls out a 4-1-4-1, Ndidi anchors, ahead of him is a very attack minded, forward thinking foursome, Tielemans is perhaps, in FM money on a support, but Maddison, Barnes and Ayoze were in it to win it.

Would only invert the fullbacks if going gunging-ho with the quartet, however feel inversion works best with centralised passing. A 4-1-4-1 allows for lovely width, would be a shame to ignore that. 

Could always go full Sampaoli vs Singapore and have it proper top heavy, schematically 2-3-4-1. Lower the team and individual mentality to achieve a bit of balance. Had a lovely go at Co-Adriaanse's Porto 3-3-4 playing with Kaizer Chiefs. Ruby, Ruby, Ruby!!!

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Il y a 3 heures, robot_skeleton a dit :

What about your midfield combination? That's the one usually giving me a headache.

Depends what you want to obtain from your midfield and where your strengths are. When I'm unsure or starting a save, I default to DM(D)/CM(A)/CM(S) or BBM, but I've used HB/RPM/RPM amongst other. In my setups, using a playmaker role in the CM strata will see the play develop a bit more in the middle of the pitch, while when using a more neutral CM(A)/CM(S) pairing, the play will generally go to the wings quickly. You can adjust that by telling the team to play more or less narrow; it depends on who is able to score and/or create, and how (through dribbling, passing, running, etc.). If every player is equally able to do either, neutral roles are fine. I don't tend to use MEZ since I don't need my central players to go wide, which MEZ love to in order to combine with the wingers and fullbacks. I tend to use my CM(A) as both a creative and secondary offensive threat while I use my CM(S)/BBM as a water carrier, utilitarian player who's well rounded in every midfield attribute.

As for the DM... While on paper I like the role, I don't quite like how HBs behave without wingbacks: I find that they make the CBs behave oddly, leaving space when they shouldn't. There were threads about it a few years ago, but I haven't noticed changes to the behaviour of the role, so it seems SI thinks they behave as they should; that, or I'm incredibly blind. I don't find a DLP(D) to be an actual playmaking role due to its low Mentality, even when equipped with PPMs such as "Likes to Switch Ball to Other Flank" or when asking the team to focus play in the middle (which increases the mentality of the players in the middle of the pitch), but a DLP(D) also is not quite as defensively solid as a good old boring DM(D). DLP(S) is a better playmaker and has "Hold Position", but it also has less defensive disciple as a "true" Defend duty.

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Ditto re: starting the good ol’ CM when setting up a new tactic. Personally, as stated above, I feel the greatest degree of creator freedom is in that very bland and basic setting. Wide Midfielder is another fantastic role, which, one would imagine from the descriptive given, is more defensive by default than a genuine winger setting. Have achieved better output with a WM cutting in than an Inverted Winger. 
 

The 4-1-4-1 is a good base and certainly doesn’t need to be limited by customisation. Throw in a bit of asymmetry even. 

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1 hour ago, Xavier Lukhas said:

DLP(S) is a better playmaker and has "Hold Position", but it also has less defensive disciple as a "true" Defend duty.

I wonder if reducing the pressing intensity of a DLPs would make it function more like a DMd defensively? Have you ever tried that? Considering his mentality is higher, his baseline pressing intensity is also higher. 
Maybe also 'Dribble Less' to mirror the in possession instructions of a DMd. 

Edited by Christopher S
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Le 17/03/2021 à 23:20, Christopher S a dit :

I wonder if reducing the pressing intensity of a DLPs would make it function more like a DMd defensively? Have you ever tried that? Considering his mentality is higher, his baseline pressing intensity is also higher. 
Maybe also 'Dribble Less' to mirror the in possession instructions of a DMd. 

I could try, but I suspect their positioning will be different from a Defend duty DM regardless, and that they'll be higher up the pitch. Depends what you want out of your DM; I guess you could slap some PPMs/Traits on them to force them to never move and just shuttle left and right, but then creating that player becomes a longer term project and means you're going to stick with the formation for the foreseeable future. I don't think a role alone can make that happen due tot the differences between Support and Defend duty. Actually I even think that sometimes even on Defend duty, the holding DM can be too far up the pitch; but that's also because I prefer them as creative sweepers protecting the high press from the more advanced players rather than ball winners by themselves.

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  • 4 months later...

I really like the 4-1-4-1, it's versatile and can produce alle kinds of football. 

I recently started a new unemployed save and ended up in Wales, Fflint Town United FC. I saw they had like 6 natural strikers, so at first i tried to play with two OR three strikers... To no succes.

Turned out my love for the 4-1-4-1 is too big :).

Since the switch to my beloved formation, i only played two games, so it's early days. Right now it's working tho.

i play with a PF(d) and i'm falling in love with that role. He holds the ball up for other teammates, he harasses the defence and is An all around nuisence. Also, his positioning is great for counterattacks. Oh, and against my expectations, he's scored 3 in those 2 games!

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 07/08/2021 at 13:57, branco2511 said:

I really like the 4-1-4-1, it's versatile and can produce alle kinds of football. 

I recently started a new unemployed save and ended up in Wales, Fflint Town United FC. I saw they had like 6 natural strikers, so at first i tried to play with two OR three strikers... To no succes.

Turned out my love for the 4-1-4-1 is too big :).

Since the switch to my beloved formation, i only played two games, so it's early days. Right now it's working tho.

i play with a PF(d) and i'm falling in love with that role. He holds the ball up for other teammates, he harasses the defence and is An all around nuisence. Also, his positioning is great for counterattacks. Oh, and against my expectations, he's scored 3 in those 2 games!

How does the tactic look like?

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21 hours ago, robot_skeleton said:

How does the tactic look like?

His goals started to dry up right after i posted. I now play with a poacher up top. If i recall right, this was my setup with the PF(d)

            GK(d)

Fbs.    Cd(d). Bpd (d) fb(a)

                 Bwm (d)

W(s).   MC(a).  Dlp (s).  IW(a)

                  PF(d)

Now my setup is changed (the defense stays the same) 

        DM(d)

W(a).  B2B.  AP(a). DW(s)

          P(a)

We play on balanced mentality, slightly more direct with early crosses. The poacher is offcourse the main goalscorer.

 

 

 

 

Edited by branco2511
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