Under what circumstances should I use a Ball Winning Midfielder?

[Domus Clamantium]

I've often read and repeated myself that ball winning midfielders are a defensive liability because they vacate their position frequently to close down leaving large gaps in midfield. Since I came to learn of and hold this view I've not seen a good reason to use one unless I was playing a 4-3-1-2 where I want the two outer midfielders to heavily close down the flanks and get stuck in and help their full back defend.

So what other situations would it be beneficial to use one, and when is it better to use a defend duty or support duty?

Edited March 9, 2021 by Domus Clamantium

[denen123]

24 minutes ago, Domus Clamantium said:

I've often read and repeated myself that ball winning midfielders are a defensive liability because they vacate their position frequently to close down leaving large gaps in midfield. Since I came to learn of and hold this view I've not seen a good reason to use one unless I was playing a 4-3-1-2 where I want the two outer midfielders to heavily close down the flanks and get stuck in and help their full back defend.

So what other situations would it be beneficial to use one, and when is it better to use a defend duty or support duty?

Biggest advice is to use one when you want him to do a job within a specific area, whilst pairing him with a good DLP, either defend or support, depending on the structure of your team

I use one in a very aggressive 4231 and I pair him with a DLP(de). The idea is to have two defensively astute players covering each flank, with the deepest being my DLP(de) to serve as a magnet and press resistant enough to build our play up.

Because of how eccentric he can be, good Holding midfielder will facilitate your BWMsu.

[afailed10]

The BWM on support will leave position early to press rather far from his original position.

With the ball, he will attempt low risk plays which can be good for two reasons. Allows you to keep the ball better and he will "think" less with the ball, which means he will release it faster and thus, increase the overall tempo of ball circulation.

[Domus Clamantium]

5 hours ago, denen123 said:

Biggest advice is to use one when you want him to do a job within a specific area, whilst pairing him with a good DLP, either defend or support, depending on the structure of your team

I use one in a very aggressive 4231 and I pair him with a DLP(de). The idea is to have two defensively astute players covering each flank, with the deepest being my DLP(de) to serve as a magnet and press resistant enough to build our play up.

Because of how eccentric he can be, good Holding midfielder will facilitate your BWMsu.

In that setup you described do you not have problems on the BWM's flank? Yes the DLP(D) covers the space but he isn't central, he is offset towards the opposite channel, so aren't there issues? I'm not criticising, I'm trying to learn btw.

How do you adjust each flank to account for the differing aggressiveness with regards to full back roles and duties and any wide attackers you have?

[denen123]

8 hours ago, Domus Clamantium said:

In that setup you described do you not have problems on the BWM's flank? Yes the DLP(D) covers the space but he isn't central, he is offset towards the opposite channel, so aren't there issues? I'm not criticising, I'm trying to learn btw.

How do you adjust each flank to account for the differing aggressiveness with regards to full back roles and duties and any wide attackers you have?

These are really good questions. Regarding my setup, I use a formula of duties(attack, support or defend) to determine what flank a player occupies. A flank for me can have only one attack and one defend duties. But can have more than one support duties.

My Left back in any of my systems is always a Complete Wingback on attack duty. I, personally, love the role and I pair him with a DLPde and an AP-su on LW.

For the BWM-su, on his flank I have an IF-su and a WB-de. I build up with TEAM INSTRUCTIONS "play out of defence + distribute to fullbacks".

(A little bit off-point)The build up for me is my most interesting bit. I like that spread when I use fullbacks to build up, rather than CB, because of how we counter the opposition press. Inverted fullbacks, however, I've struggled using this role in build ups, if not, it(IWB-de) works well with the BWM-su.

Another advantage is I don't have to force the closing down of the BWM-su. He d9es so himself. I, however, force the closing down of my DLP-de(by giving him "close down more" player instruction, because of how aggressive my LB is).

Overall, it depends on your idea of what you want. I'm presently struggling with creating a 4-3-3 with a BWM-SU that works. Might use a DM-su instead. We will see. 

Posting your tactic might also help.

[pheelf]

I like the BWM(S) in a 4-3-3 as one of the central midfielders. I feel it's a good role to use on the side of an attacking fullback as it can help 'buy time' for the fullback to recover should your attack break down and they be caught high up the pitch. Personally, I would never use one as my holding midfielder thus have never used one in the defend duty. I've found they are simply too unreliable for that purpose. You have to be able to depend on your holding midfielder being where you need him to be, if he's not then that can be hugely detrimental to your defense, especially painful during counter attacks. I wouldn't utilize one in a 2-man central midfield either although I suppose alongside a more stable holding partner or in a 2 DM setup the risk could be mitigated somewhat.

To answer the question more directly, use the BWM under any circumstances. Much like any other role, as long as you understand what is required to make the player in the role thrive then you can make it work.