The striker in a possession based system?

[Belmont]

Hi everyone. 

I know possession based tactics come in different roles and through different ways. 

In your opinion, which striker role is the best for this system and how do you get your strikers to score goals in it. I've not often had success with possession tactics with lone strikers. 

I'm attempting to create a tactical system that relies on quick passes and movements. But we'll camp on the opposition's half most of the time. 

I've thought about the F9, DLF and the CF. I've never had any success with those roles either. I know the striker would have to drop deep and link up with both midfielders and wide men. 

I guess my main point is I want the striker in my possession heavy system to be the team's top scorer. 

 

Please note I haven't created the tactic yet. I'm just playing around with some ideas and would like to build it around a striker.

[Johnny Ace]

I was actually thinking about this at the weekend:

DLF - Drops deep, moves into channels, holds onto the ball, makes risky passes - potential to lose the ball but you can't have everyone possession focused & they will help link play 

AF - out & out goalscorer, moves into channels, would suit a possession system but not look to help the team with possession

Targetman - Focus of play, holds up the ball for others - loss of possession risks

Poacher - won't contribute much. May struggle as a lone forward

Complete Striker - holds on to the ball, takes risks, dribbles on the ball, moves into channels, roams 

Pressing Forward - aggressive, can help win the ball back

F9 - Drops deep, dribbles more, take more risks, uses creative freedom   

 

Depends what you want from the striker & what they're capable of. You can't just use any striker in any role if they don't have the suitable attributes. It's important to look at the role's individual mentality too which loops back round to the overall system   

A DLF & F9 will both help the team keep possession by dropping deep & look to make themselves available for a pass to create & score. An AF won't help the team keep possession so much but will make themselves available to create & score. A CF(S) will drop off & roam looking for space to keep the ball. So I'd use one of those roles 

 

what else do you have planned out? Roles & TI's?

 

 

[koikingu]

I've been trying to get a possession-heavy 4-2-3-1 working in FM21. So far I have gone with DLFs, with the idea that they would play in primary goal scorers coming off the wings, though they have had a tendency to disappear in certain games.

 

I experimented with complete forward, but found that because they tried to  do too much, they didn't really work well in my tactic. I suspect CF would only work if they were far and away the best player, and the rest of the attacking band was set up to support them to do whatever they wanted.

 

None of these feel as effective as playing an AF in a counter-attacking or counter-pressing system yet unfortunately. It's a shame, because watching a good team goal in this match engine feels very satisfying.

[Johnny Ace]

I think a CF could work but it depends on everything else, you'd want support from deep & wide & threats from deep & wide

Depends if he's on Support or Attack too how you'd set everything else 

Like if's he on Support, he'll drop deep & I'd want an IF with a CM or AM on attack  

[Belmont]

4 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I was actually thinking about this at the weekend:

DLF - Drops deep, moves into channels, holds onto the ball, makes risky passes - potential to lose the ball but you can't have everyone possession focused & they will help link play 

AF - out & out goalscorer, moves into channels, would suit a possession system but not look to help the team with possession

Targetman - Focus of play, holds up the ball for others - loss of possession risks

Poacher - won't contribute much. May struggle as a lone forward

Complete Striker - holds on to the ball, takes risks, dribbles on the ball, moves into channels, roams 

Pressing Forward - aggressive, can help win the ball back

F9 - Drops deep, dribbles more, take more risks, uses creative freedom   

 

Depends what you want from the striker & what they're capable of. You can't just use any striker in any role if they don't have the suitable attributes. It's important to look at the role's individual mentality too which loops back round to the overall system   

A DLF & F9 will both help the team keep possession by dropping deep & look to make themselves available for a pass to create & score. An AF won't help the team keep possession so much but will make themselves available to create & score. A CF(S) will drop off & roam looking for space to keep the ball. So I'd use one of those roles 

 

what else do you have planned out? Roles & TI's?

 

 

Thanks, Johnny. I don't use TIs much aside from play out from the back. I kinda like letting the play roles decide the patterns of play. 

As for roles, I just like my wingers holding the width so creativity would most likely come from the middle. I'm thinking about an AF with a "come deep" traits. I need goals from him most of all. 

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, Belmont said:

Thanks, Johnny. I don't use TIs much aside from play out from the back. I kinda like letting the play roles decide the patterns of play. 

As for roles, I just like my wingers holding the width so creativity would most likely come from the middle. I'm thinking about an AF with a "come deep" traits. I need goals from him most of all. 

Nice, I try to keep them to a minimum myself, I lose track of what's going on with too many 

AF with comes deep is great, like a quasi AF/DLF without the risky passses & more of an eye for goal. I've done that with Lewandowski to good affect (mainly because he's World Class)

[Fieldsy]

Isn’t what your describing a pressing forward (a)? They will hold the ball up to help with possession but will the. Make movements like a AF?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Fieldsy said:

sn’t what your describing a pressing forward (a)? They will hold the ball up to help with possession

If I remember correctly, PF does not hold up the ball when played on attack duty. 

[Fatkidscantjump]

For me I pick it depending on my player.

F9 = creative / good dribbler / not that much strength and height / weight

DLF(s) = creative with good physicals to hold the ball

AF(a) = good finisher with pace, good vs high lines

DLF(a) = basically a DLF(s) who will take more initiative to make individual plays such as dribbling and shooting,  bit less demanding than a Complete Forward, my favorite role for a lone strike but it needs a great player.

Pressing Forward = the defender that somehow slipped through the cracks in youth teams and still got played as a striker, useful in a high pressing system

Other roles i don't consider too much because I feel they work better with a second striker except complete forward maybe but It needs one hell of a player.

Then you can pick the roles around him. For example if you pick an F9 you need someone to attack the space he will vacate, if you play an AF(a) you need someone to supply him the ball etc

Edited March 3, 2021 by Fatkidscantjump

[Cult of Football Manager]

Good thread!

I had the same issues as you for multiple editions in a possession based single striker system and I struggled to find an answer for it & never really found a solution I was happy with until this year. On this edition I've been using a false 9 even from the beta as I'm not sure what, but it feels like they've changed the way plays in the match engine in the final third especially ( do you know if this is actually something that changed or not @Experienced Defender ? ) . I suppose it depends on what players you have like someone else mentioned, or I would say also what kind of chances are you trying to create for the striker?

I'm not sure if I would use it though if i wasn't one of the top teams in the league. I'll test it and report that back in your thread here.

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, Fatkidscantjump said:

DLF(a) = basically a DLF(s) who will take more initiative to make individual plays such as dribbling and shooting,  bit less demanding than a Complete Forward, my favorite role for a lone strike but it needs a great player.

Same, love a DLF (s or A), I use Targetmen types who have a bit of sense about them, tall, strong so they win the ball in the air & hold off defenders, dropping deep to allow others in behind 

They're suitable for any system really, can hold the ball up while others get forward or win an aerial challenge for more direct or quicker play or use the their movement to give passing options in a short style 

On the Pressing forward, they're very similar to AFs but more aggressive , loads of them in the lower leagues. I'd love to see a tactic with Pressing Forward (D)  

Could be one to try 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Johnny Ace

[Fieldsy]

4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

If I remember correctly, PF does not hold up the ball when played on attack duty. 

Ahhh you may be right, was at work so couldn’t check 

[Belmont]

3 hours ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

Good thread!

I had the same issues as you for multiple editions in a possession based single striker system and I struggled to find an answer for it & never really found a solution I was happy with until this year. On this edition I've been using a false 9 even from the beta as I'm not sure what, but it feels like they've changed the way plays in the match engine in the final third especially ( do you know if this is actually something that changed or not @Experienced Defender ? ) . I suppose it depends on what players you have like someone else mentioned, or I would say also what kind of chances are you trying to create for the striker?

I'm not sure if I would use it though if i wasn't one of the top teams in the league. I'll test it and report that back in your thread here.

Thank you so much. That would be helpful. I'm also following your Manchester City thread. Very curious to see how it works out.

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, Cult of Football Manager said:

On this edition I've been using a false 9 even from the beta as I'm not sure what, but it feels like they've changed the way plays in the match engine in the final third especially ( do you know if this is actually something that changed or not @Experienced Defender ? )

What I know is that one same role will behave differently within different tactical setups/systems, even if played by the same player. That's why I never comment on any tactical element (role, duty or instruction) in isolation, but exclusively in the context of a whole tactic.