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I'm at work so can't share screenies but the weirdest thing has happened to me. I'm playing with Hertha Berlin and I have a top team by all accounts, we haven't won big trophies (other than German Cup twice) but we're up there in terms of quality, it is 2027 -- to give you an idea, I have both Olmo and Chiesa and they're not guaranteed starters, we're that loaded with talent.

This season I've coalesced into a 4231 with a AMC, straying from my counter-based 4-4-fkn-2 and various variations thereof. The 4231 is fantastic and helps bring out the best of my team in many ways but it seems, almost consistently, I have massive catastrophic defensive meltdowns every other game wherein the opponent scores 2 or 3 goals in quick succession within the first few minutes. The tactic is almost entirely like Johnny's (Positive mentality, etc.) but the defense gets shredded when the play ends up in my third of the pitch. Not many goals against on counters, just plain dominated when they have the ball in my neighbourhood. I've noticed some goals where they just rip through my defensive channels, but if I play on narrower defense then they get ample time to load up on the wings, and play from there (and score).

So I'm wondering:

1) Would raising the defensive line help?

2) Enable offside trap?

3) Tight marker -- I never understood it -- how is it best deployed?

4) I had my favourite TI, Regroup, enabled. I've disabled it now and in certain matches enabled counter-press when I was chasing a goal. I feel counter-press is fine to prevent the play from ending up victimizing me but also highly risky. What do you think?

Any other advice?

 

AFa

Ws    APa    IFs

CMd    CMs

FBs CDc BPDd FBa

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@Dj-Voodooto me, your roles look fine except I'd flip the CMs around, the CM-D covers the FB(A) & the CM-S gets into the channel between the AP & W. That may help out defensively because the way you're set, you're pretty open down the right

1) & 2) might be useful if you have fast, smart CDs

3) I don't use it & would only use it on a player by player basis rather than as a TI

4) Regroup is boring :D I think Counter Press is one of the most risky PIs, I find it overkill & leaves massive gaps in your shape, it's something I never use unless I'm a massive favorite & want to torture a team :D

Without seeing what's happening or game stats it's hard to tell, it could just be player quality. I know you say they're good, but they need to be good at the right things. Like, your 2 CM's both need defensive ability rather than be 5 6" show ponies (as an extreme example :lol:)

Oh, don't play an offside trap with a Cover duty defender. I don't find them useful either, vs a 4-3-3 it'll be fine but against 2 striker formations or a 9 & a 10, it could cause problems   

 

 

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2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

@Incubus89 It's my base 4-2-3-1, I revamped my FM20 tactic but dumbed it down for the Dynamo 

 

                           AF(A)

IF(S)                 AP(A)                W(S)

                  CM(D)       CM(S)

FB(A)       CD(D)        CD(D)      FB(S)

                             GK(D)

Positive vs the AI Positive & above

Balanced vs the AI Balanced & below

Narrow

Shorter passing

Counter

More Urgent

 

It's not P&P though, which is why I was trying a 4-2-3-1 DLF(A) because not all teams have a suitable AF. The AF(A) needs to be fast & tall, good finishing. Wide attackers fast & athletic, AP(A) fast, skillful, creative. The CM's solid, can pass defend, height & speed etc. Back-line fast, tall etc etc 

I knocked down the pressing because It smokes the players, higher tempo was too much for the players & playing out from the back isn't the best of ideas & as above, hoofing it up-field, isn't always a bad thing :lol:

It's working alright, basically have a L2 squad at best in the Championship, 21st & above is the aim & try & up the Club rep to get in better players. Any 4 star player the scouts pick up are of a decent L2 standard   :confused:

@Johnny Ace it looks really good mate, not too dissimilar to the one I play at Sociedad. Found that as I've got up the league I can turn the FB(S) into a WB(S) and it's actually made me more defensively solid (genuinely would love to know how this has happened as the defensive personnel haven't changed). Found the same thing with the pressing, they just get shattered, with the formation being top heavy I guess it doesn't need to be as intense as they're pretty much in the opposition defense's face and not letting the ball get through.

 

Sucks about the scouting though, had that last year with my Gainsborough save. Took such a long time to be able to get anything decent coming along. 

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9 minutes ago, Incubus89 said:

@Johnny Ace it looks really good mate, not too dissimilar to the one I play at Sociedad. Found that as I've got up the league I can turn the FB(S) into a WB(S) and it's actually made me more defensively solid (genuinely would love to know how this has happened as the defensive personnel haven't changed). Found the same thing with the pressing, they just get shattered, with the formation being top heavy I guess it doesn't need to be as intense as they're pretty much in the opposition defense's face and not letting the ball get through.

 

Sucks about the scouting though, had that last year with my Gainsborough save. Took such a long time to be able to get anything decent coming along. 

Yeah, sometimes, adding more threat to your team has you conceding less, not sure myself why either :lol: Guess it stops the AI playing out from certain areas of the pitch or something

Re: the FB/ WB thing, I only play wingbacks with a DM, just as a rule of thumb thing for me but as player quality increases, you can "get away" with certain things  & be more risky/ less solid without any hindrance. I was reading back some of the things I was doing in a 4-2-3-1 at Bayern in FM19 & because I'd built a ridiculously good squad, I could get away with most things :lol:

I was planning on staying in L1 another season or two but every other team lost the plot & I've ended up going up too early :onmehead:

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36 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Yeah, sometimes, adding more threat to your team has you conceding less, not sure myself why either :lol: Guess it stops the AI playing out from certain areas of the pitch or something

Re: the FB/ WB thing, I only play wingbacks with a DM, just as a rule of thumb thing for me but as player quality increases, you can "get away" with certain things  & be more risky/ less solid without any hindrance. I was reading back some of the things I was doing in a 4-2-3-1 at Bayern in FM19 & because I'd built a ridiculously good squad, I could get away with most things :lol:

I was planning on staying in L1 another season or two but every other team lost the plot & I've ended up going up too early :onmehead:

I guess teams maybe get more wary about the higher threat and back off a little. With Sociedad my full backs are Junior Firpo who I kept getting on loan and then the original right back Gorosabel (who I never see talked about but he's fantastic!) and had them since season 1 but both get into double figures for assists and pin back the opposition, definitely not complaining though!

 

I only put the FB(S) on WB because I saw the opposition getting space on the flank because he was hanging back and leaving a gap. I remember that thread, was really helpful. Yeah it really doesn't help when you get promoted but haven't had time to set yourself up for that move. I always panic buy in that situation, almost never works out!

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@Johnny Ace awesome thread, loving this read - thanks for starting it.  I'm in a really interesting save at the moment which is a legends database - have just finished my first season with Crystal Palace and managed to sneak into 6th place on the last day, so at least some European football next season! Had tried a few possession based tactics and a different 4231 for most of the season but just couldn't get any consistency. I love playing with an AMC or AP and wanted to get something more simple under way, and this thread is jam packed full of great ideas.  My squad is stocked with playmakers, so I liked @horned frog 94 approach to playing two APs.  When you see my squad it looks amazing, but keep in mind these are mostly 19 year old versions of the players and are not the finished article, and all other squads have legends in them as well e.g. Man U has Charlton and Law up front, Scholes in midfield, young Ronaldo and Best on the wings, etc.  Also legend managers are in it too so Busby is Man U, Shankly Liverpool, etc.  Great fun but really hard!  Introduced this tactic for the last 8 games and got solid results (apart from getting spanked by Newcastle!).  I like how having very few TIs seems to have freed them up, although not getting much change out of my winger and IF (Weah scores pretty well as the AF though). Going to have a pre-season with it and see how it goes for season 2 - I might change the midfield to CMD and CMS for tough away games.  Any suggestions/tips very welcome, and also recognize this is based on others ideas in this thread!

 

2021-10-07 (4).png

2021-10-07 (3).png

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Glad you're enjoying it & it's been helpful @jdubsnz. A legends database ay, sounds like a lot of fun!!! That team is insane :D

Looks fine to me, not sure on the AP in CM but like I said earlier, when you have a crazy good team, you can get away with things & even a CM-S can get quite forward

You'll have to let us know how you get on with Socrates 

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22 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Glad you're enjoying it & it's been helpful @jdubsnz. A legends database ay, sounds like a lot of fun!!! That team is insane :D

Looks fine to me, not sure on the AP in CM but like I said earlier, when you have a crazy good team, you can get away with things & even a CM-S can get quite forward

You'll have to let us know how you get on with Socrates 

was pretty excited to get Socrates for £25m (he's slightly older at 22). he had a few injuries so hasn't played loads yet and when he has he has just been ok. Expecting big things though! Juan Sebastian Veron was our player of the season.  Screenshot of their stats:

2021-10-07 (5).png

2021-10-07 (6).png

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Posted (edited)

Been wracking my brains on a 4-2-3-1 with a support striker. The PF(S) & SS(A) combo is great one but I wanted another ace up my sleeve. I want to be able to drop at any club in the World with a striker & an AMC & get started. AF(A), PF(A) type strikers, I can get them scoring goals & winning games but when a club has maybe a target man type striker, I want to be able to load something up & know it can produce

Anyone feel free to chip in here 

I've tried a few holiday runs with Roma tonight & they weren't great, I was trying PF(S) & AM(A) combos  with inconsistent results.  It was bothering my a bit so instead of using the AMC as a goal getter & seeing that 4-3-3's work so well with attacking flanks, I shifted the focus out wide. 

Playing my main save I chucked something together & think it could have legs. Trying it now in a friendly in my main save but I don't have suitable players ie my inside in the right is right footed. So I might try & find a club tomorrow to test it out with 

Like you see here, a promising attack but Visser is right footed & can't finish 

Eng.gif.2f402cf8bcf9de2d4c3ced6a3505dd9f.gif

The Enganche is heavily involved & has options. Posting here for reference 

48095149_4-2-3-1ThestandardCF(S).png.bf19bf16c12d7d64fa7ce829f5fb1d57.png

It's lacking variety, but the crosses from deep from the FB's is part of the plan with a tall strong striker, then the attacking IF's. The Enganche should have options going forward, wide & the CMs, at least one of them should be overlapping him at times 

ETA:  I spoke too soon, what a goal :eek:

305478404_toosoon.gif.b61546baf6467347d074a736c3fa6e56.gif

 

Edited by Johnny Ace
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My new guy who I brought in as a CM is a better AP than Branch so he made his debut there & secured a 2-0 win against Palace on the opening day

Musa.gif.805bd7ad1269be5140c8381146b2e737.gif

Musa.thumb.png.7d2e774f9eb14f0bbf2ffcc5d923ab7c.png

 

Long live the AMC!!!

 

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One of the most fascinating things about this game is how a system that demonstrably makes your teams play fluid and effective attacking football, results in absolutely toothless football for my team. This isn't a slight, nor a complaint - just an observation. Keep up the good work, buddy! 

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46 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

One of the most fascinating things about this game is how a system that demonstrably makes your teams play fluid and effective attacking football, results in absolutely toothless football for my team. This isn't a slight, nor a complaint - just an observation. Keep up the good work, buddy! 

Thanks! These are only cherry picked highlights remember! :) I just try & keep things simple, see how many players I have forward, how many back, make sure the players can do what I want from them, make sure the roles fit how I want to play etc 

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Hi @Johnny Ace, I came back to this topic looking for specific help not to use the formation but to create a more specific playstyle. And as you are kind of an AMC/4-2-3-1 specialist here, maybe you can help me :D Of course that anyone that want to help and/or play on a similar way can also help me.

This the base set, simple as we have discussed before:
 

image.png.b5136bfc9039cb53f82f36b322512007.png

 

I want to play an intense, quick and fast attacking football - more Klopp than Guardiola, if we can resume :lol: I prefer 3, 4 quick passes instead of 40.  I know I have to start from the scratch as I am playing lower league, so the system will have to develop besides I can hire better players (so maybe I will have to refine it step by step). And also I think we cannot afford too much risk, because although our defence is good, it is of course not a world class one.

I thought about Balanced mentality, Higher Tempo, Counter/Counter-Press, Higher Defensive Line and Higher Line of Engagement with a split block (the 4 men at the front with "Press More" PI). Maybe it is too risky? Would you go another way? 

I can also consider a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide too, with the AP-At being the third man in midfield, a DM and more adventurous fullbacks.

Thank you for your all ideas and help, this thread is quality. :thup:

Edited by Tsuru
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Did you get bored of 4-4-2's too? :D That's the exact set-up I've been using :thup: Like I said, it basically covers all channels in an attack 

Now,  the tricky bit, tailoring your TIs to your squad

So it depends, for certain TIs you'll want to look at certain attributes among your team, Aggression, Stamina, Bravery,  Work Rate etc for a press. For a Counter, speed up front & on the flanks just general things like that. Like, I've never bothered with playing out from the back with Melbourne a) because the defenders weren't good enough to do that & b) I made sure the majority of my squad were 6 foot plus in height so clearances from the back could be won. You could build differently & go for shorter, more technical players which suits playing on the ground more   

I think the Shape & roles lead itself to higher pressing, shorter passing & counter attacking by default so for a Klopp inspired tactic you could add the higher tempo & counter press. Just remember though, Klopp had exceptional squad's when he played that way so build for that style in that future, would be a fun save building from the lower leagues  

At Al-Rayyan I had a season with 4-1-4-1 DM & used Brahimi as the creative outlet & it was great fun, in fact he was amazing but for the league, he was a stand out player  

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40 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Hi @Johnny Ace, I came back to this topic looking for specific help not to use the formation but to create a more specific playstyle. And as you are kind of an AMC/4-2-3-1 specialist here, maybe you can help me :D Of course that anyone that want to help and/or play on a similar way can also help me.

This the base set, simple as we have discussed before:
 

image.png.b5136bfc9039cb53f82f36b322512007.png

 

I want to play an intense, quick and fast attacking football - more Klopp than Guardiola, if we can resume :lol: I prefer 3, 4 quick passes instead of 40.  I know I have to start from the scratch as I am playing lower league, so the system will have to develop besides I can hire better players (so maybe I will have to refine it step by step). And also I think we cannot afford too much risk, because although our defence is good, it is of course not a world class one.

I thought about Balanced mentality, Higher Tempo, Counter/Counter-Press, Higher Defensive Line and Higher Line of Engagement with a split block (the 4 men at the front with "Press More" PI). Maybe it is too risky? Would you go another way? 

I can also consider a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide too, with the AP-At being the third man in midfield, a DM and more adventurous fullbacks.

Thank you for your all ideas and help, this thread is quality. :thup:

Hey, I know I'm not @Johnny Acebut I have just been doing a save in the lower leagues like this. Same set up as you but different TIs.

 

I use: positive, play out of defence, focus left, focus right, counter, sometimes counter press, roll out, higher LOE and DL. Only thing I change against stronger opposition is dropping the CMs to DM and AML and AMR to the ML and MR positions. 

 

With that I managed to get Wycombe promoted second season with no investment other than a couple of loans. And Grimsby to the championship (hoping to get the playoffs this season).

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Just now, Johnny Ace said:

That's fantastic @Incubus89! I'm just hoping it transfers over to FM22 :D

Me too!! I've never been able to get an AMC to work in FM but now every save I try I seem to be able to get some level of overachievement by using things from this thread!

 

With Newcastle got 4th first season and 2nd the next. Almiron was awesome as a trequartista but got forced out in end by some ridiculous regen. Then my Sociedad save I've stopped because 5 La Ligas on the bounce felt like enough! 

 

I think I read something that said if the tactic is based on sensible football theory then it will transfer. Only seems to be if you're trying to break/game the ME.

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20 minutes ago, Incubus89 said:

Me too!! I've never been able to get an AMC to work in FM but now every save I try I seem to be able to get some level of overachievement by using things from this thread!

 

With Newcastle got 4th first season and 2nd the next. Almiron was awesome as a trequartista but got forced out in end by some ridiculous regen. Then my Sociedad save I've stopped because 5 La Ligas on the bounce felt like enough! 

 

I think I read something that said if the tactic is based on sensible football theory then it will transfer. Only seems to be if you're trying to break/game the ME.

I feel boring when I see the systems put together by some, I like the simple stuff :D It was very similar to what I used in FM20 so it should hopefully continue 

Though, I did try something with Bayern, accidentally left Muller as a SS with Rob as an AF on a holiday run & they both absolutely blitzed the league. I felt like I cheesed the ME a bit but I suppose with Bayern, they have the players to deal with an overly risky setup 

I'm glad this thread has helped you with some FM success @Incubus89 How did you set your wing players with your Trequarista? 

I'll do it again for FM22, hopefully the AMC can still live strong(ish) :lol:  

 

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29 minutos atrás, Incubus89 disse:

Hey, I know I'm not @Johnny Acebut I have just been doing a save in the lower leagues like this. Same set up as you but different TIs.

I use: positive, play out of defence, focus left, focus right, counter, sometimes counter press, roll out, higher LOE and DL. Only thing I change against stronger opposition is dropping the CMs to DM and AML and AMR to the ML and MR positions. 

With that I managed to get Wycombe promoted second season with no investment other than a couple of loans. And Grimsby to the championship (hoping to get the playoffs this season).

Thank you very much for your ideas, this is exactly what I am looking for. I will test it here for sure.

Just a question, is there any specific reason to use Focus Play? Maybe it is an open space strategy, I was just curious about it, it would not be something that I would set up from the start :lol:

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2 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Thank you very much for your ideas, this is exactly what I am looking for. I will test it here for sure.

Just a question, is there any specific reason to use Focus Play? Maybe it is an open space strategy, I was just curious about it, it would not be something that I would set up from the start :lol:

Honestly it was because my wingers were slightly more creative and midfielders were more ball winners so seemed to fit. Plus like you said it stretches the play which seems to give the AMC more room. Let me know how it works for you! You could definitely change the focus, that was the only bit that was team specific. 

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1 minuto atrás, Incubus89 disse:

Honestly it was because my wingers were slightly more creative and midfielders were more ball winners so seemed to fit. Plus like you said it stretches the play which seems to give the AMC more room. Let me know how it works for you! You could definitely change the focus, that was the only bit that was team specific. 

Thanks, I will test with the focus, I think it makes sense as we play with CM-D/CM-S, which are not very creative roles. Then I will give a feedback here about how it went. :thup:

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5 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Thanks, I will test with the focus, I think it makes sense as we play with CM-D/CM-S, which are not very creative roles. Then I will give a feedback here about how it went. :thup:

Please do, it's not something I've ever played around with much 

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10 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I feel boring when I see the systems put together by some, I like the simple stuff :D It was very similar to what I used in FM20 so it should hopefully continue 

Though, I did try something with Bayern, accidentally left Muller as a SS with Rob as an AF on a holiday run & they both absolutely blitzed the league. I felt like I cheesed the ME a bit but I suppose with Bayern, they have the players to deal with an overly risky setup 

I'm glad this thread has helped you with some FM success @Incubus89 How did you set your wing players with your Trequarista? 

I'll do it again for FM22, hopefully the AMC can still live strong(ish) :lol:  

 

Definitely! It does get boring, with this being so simple you can make little tweaks that make big differences! 

 

I mean Bayern is so strong that like you said you can be that little bit riskier with what you're attempting. What were you gonna set them to?

 

The wingers were an IF(s) which sometimes became an IW(s) depending on the player and then a W(a) which is normally my second highest goalscorer. Oyarzabal gets 20+ a season from there. Then an AF in front.

 

Really hoping it is because I plan on taking forward! Was pretty much always plug and play before this but now feel I can create and adapt!

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8 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Thanks, I will test with the focus, I think it makes sense as we play with CM-D/CM-S, which are not very creative roles. Then I will give a feedback here about how it went. :thup:

With Newcastle as the example it meant Fraser and Saint-Maximim were getting on the ball more and creating space by dragging people around, cutting it to their full back to cross or pass and move or they would find Almiron in loads of room who had time to shoot or play in Wilson.

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Agora, Incubus89 disse:

With Newcastle as the example it meant Fraser and Saint-Maximim were getting on the ball more and creating space by dragging people around, cutting it to their full back to cross or pass and move or they would find Almiron in loads of room who had time to shoot or play in Wilson.

Yes, this is the kind of thing you say "hey, why I never thought about it?". It makes a lot of sense as it looks a very simple strategy to open space with smaller teams which lack technical resources to do that.

Another question, did you ever feel defensively unsafe with your team using Positive mentality plus Higher DL/LOE? I mean, when you play like that you expect to suffer some goals from a high line, but sometimes FM is harsh about that and your team looks very vulnerable. I suppose this was not a problem as you had a lot of success...

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2 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Yes, this is the kind of thing you say "hey, why I never thought about it?". It makes a lot of sense as it looks a very simple strategy to open space with smaller teams which lack technical resources to do that.

Another question, did you ever feel defensively unsafe with your team using Positive mentality plus Higher DL/LOE? I mean, when you play like that you expect to suffer some goals from a high line, but sometimes FM is harsh about that and your team looks very vulnerable. I suppose this was not a problem as you had a lot of success...

That was the plan, keep it simple and get it to the more creative players and try and open up source then pray they are smart enough to make that move! 

I won't lie occasionally we'd occasionally get battered by bigger teams so that's when I dropped the midfield back a strata. It really helped with minimising goals. It would sometimes feel shaky but then again I was playing as not so good teams so never sure if that is tactic, player or morale.

 

Positive with high LOE and DL felt solid with the players dropped back and felt mostly fine with standard 4231.

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3 minutes ago, Incubus89 said:

I mean Bayern is so strong that like you said you can be that little bit riskier with what you're attempting. What were you gonna set them to?

The wingers were an IF(s) which sometimes became an IW(s) depending on the player and then a W(a) which is normally my second highest goalscorer. Oyarzabal gets 20+ a season from there. Then an AF in front.

Really hoping it is because I plan on taking forward! Was pretty much always plug and play before this but now feel I can create and adapt!

I can't remember to be honest, I think I kept the save so I'll post the result later if I can 

I used to love a W(A) & AF(A) in 4-2-3-1, it's like playing with two strikers at times 

Exactly, like I said to @Tsuru it can be tailored depending on your players. I've been trying to flip the 9 & 10 so it's a bit more adaptable to teams with a slow striker, use him as the 10 & have a deeper number 9. I think the SS(A) & PF(S) is the best combo but not as effective as the original.   

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2 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

I can't remember to be honest, I think I kept the save so I'll post the result later if I can 

I used to love a W(A) & AF(A) in 4-2-3-1, it's like playing with two strikers at times 

Exactly, like I said to @Tsuru it can be tailored depending on your players. I've been trying to flip the 9 & 10 so it's a bit more adaptable to teams with a slow striker, use him as the 10 & have a deeper number 9. I think the SS(A) & PF(S) is the best combo but not as effective as the original.   

Honestly I love the W(a) and AF combo, especially if it's a winger who cuts in or with decent heading, they are just never picked up! 

I never really got how to tailor it until these last few saves. But this works a treat. How is that combo getting on? I only ever got it working how I wanted it by offsetting the AM and ST.

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14 minutes ago, Incubus89 said:

Honestly I love the W(a) and AF combo, especially if it's a winger who cuts in or with decent heading, they are just never picked up! 

I never really got how to tailor it until these last few saves. But this works a treat. How is that combo getting on? I only ever got it working how I wanted it by offsetting the AM and ST.

The far post headers are deadly :thup:

Pretty good over a season, instead of the SS getting the lion's share of goals like an AF(A) they're shared between the SS & PF but overall, it scores less. The ideal combo I'd imagine here is like a Diego Costa & Messi, imagine the carnage with a pairing like that :lol:

I've been trying an AMC(A) with PF(S) in FM11, Lampard & Drogba & that was fun, but that's the sort of system I want to get running. It worked terribly in FM21 with Melbourne so it put me off a bit but the players were no where near that quality so I'm not surprised 

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33 minutos atrás, Incubus89 disse:

That was the plan, keep it simple and get it to the more creative players and try and open up source then pray they are smart enough to make that move! 

I won't lie occasionally we'd occasionally get battered by bigger teams so that's when I dropped the midfield back a strata. It really helped with minimising goals. It would sometimes feel shaky but then again I was playing as not so good teams so never sure if that is tactic, player or morale.

 

Positive with high LOE and DL felt solid with the players dropped back and felt mostly fine with standard 4231.

Normally I like to have two strategies: an attacking one and a counter one. This is for bad moments during the season, bad moments during a game or even for harder matches, and it is a simple of way of surprising our opponents. It is much easier to play against us when we have only way of playing. So I will use your TI ideas for the 4-2-3-1 and build a 4-2-1-1 counter one, I think this plan B can suit us very well.

I never used Positive with HIgher DL+LOE, but maybe without pressing instructions (TIs or PIs) we will do fine, I will go that way. :thup:

Edited by Tsuru
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15 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

The far post headers are deadly :thup:

Pretty good over a season, instead of the SS getting the lion's share of goals like an AF(A) they're shared between the SS & PF but overall, it scores less. The ideal combo I'd imagine here is like a Diego Costa & Messi, imagine the carnage with a pairing like that :lol:

I've been trying an AMC(A) with PF(S) in FM11, Lampard & Drogba & that was fun, but that's the sort of system I want to get running. It worked terribly in FM21 with Melbourne so it put me off a bit but the players were no where near that quality so I'm not surprised 

They really are, whoever plays there just seems to ghost in and knock it in. I played a 16 y/o regen called Moussa Sow there on his Sociedad debut and he netted a hat trick! It was like no one cared he was there. 

That's a shame because I love a shadow striker! That pairing would cause chaos! 

 

What are you using at Melbourne at the moment? 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Normally I like to have two strategies: an attacking one and a counter one. This is for bad moments during the season, bad moments during a game or even for harder matches, and it is a simple of way of surprising our opponents. It is much easier to play against us when we have only way of playing. So I will use your TI ideas for the 4-2-3-1 and build a 4-2-2-2 counter one, I think this plan B can suit us very well.

I never used Positive with HIgher DL+LOE, but maybe without pressing instructions (TIs or PIs) we will do fine, I will go that way. :thup:

Honestly you could use the same TIs but drop the midfield back, so a 4-2-2-1-1. I used that instead and it works great. Picked off City, United and Liverpool with that. 

Overall, I think they work well as a combo, especially with players dropped back. It's a defensive formation but still gives the players a bit of freedom to be adventurous enough to try a few different things.

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6 minutes ago, Incubus89 said:

They really are, whoever plays there just seems to ghost in and knock it in. I played a 16 y/o regen called Moussa Sow there on his Sociedad debut and he netted a hat trick! It was like no one cared he was there. 

That's a shame because I love a shadow striker! That pairing would cause chaos! 

 

What are you using at Melbourne at the moment? 

 

 

Just the same one as before, in the Premiership now & the AMC's are all doing pretty bad with the AF(A) thriving. The IF's got his act together this season too  :lol:

Yeah, a big, strong, grafter DLF(S) or PF(S) paired with a fast & skillful SS(A) or AM(A) is the plan. I suppose it's not something you see in real life, I just thought it was interesting

 

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5 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Just the same one as before, in the Premiership now & the AMC's are all doing pretty bad with the AF(A) thriving. The IF's got his act together this season too  :lol:

Yeah, a big, strong, grafter DLF(S) or PF(S) paired with a fast & skillful SS(A) or AM(A) is the plan. I suppose it's not something you see in real life, I just thought it was interesting

 

Would a CF(s) work? I sometimes use the role on players I know aren't quite up to it because it results in some different behaviours than you'd expect. I did it in League 2 on a slow player but with good technicals and mentals for the level. His movement was so weird but did the trick.

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3 minutes ago, Incubus89 said:

Would a CF(s) work? I sometimes use the role on players I know aren't quite up to it because it results in some different behaviours than you'd expect. I did it in League 2 on a slow player but with good technicals and mentals for the level. His movement was so weird but did the trick.

I think so, absolutely, just PF's & DLFs are loads easier to find but even having a season to play about in, it's finding a team with a suitable AMC.  

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1 minute ago, Johnny Ace said:

I think so, absolutely, just PF's & DLFs are loads easier to find but even having a season to play about in, it's finding a team with a suitable AMC.  

Oh those are the exact players I'd play there 🤣. What kind of team are you looking to play? 

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1 hour ago, Incubus89 said:

Definitely! Feel like Firmino and Salah should work but then again pretty much anything does so not really a fair test!!

Trent & Robbo are God tier, they're a fun team to try things out with 

 

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Currently I have something of a love affair with Ryan Gauld. At the start of the game he is available for a mere 2-point-something million Euro, has great passing stats and his PPMs of playing killer balls and going forwards more often perfectly cancel out his lacklustre flair. Not to mention that his work rate allows him to either start a high press or to play as a working Trequartista.

He currently averages roughly 1 scorer/game well-split between goals and assists and it would have been much more if the strikers in front of him weren't so selfless. I guess he has another pre-assist/game. He is my chief counter-starter and creates plenty of spaces.

Formation and general idea

On my second save I might try out Grifo again soon. Long Shots *and* passing? Great set pieces? Curls Ball? Yes, please. Only question left is whether I will start a 3-4-2-1 or a christmas tree. The first one might be too similar to my current 32212 though and the second one is something I haven't played since 17...

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Ok so an update with the Wycombe save. We finished 9th in the first season in the Prem which I was really happy with. In our second season Ryan Gauld had just been relegated with Bournemouth so managed to pick him up for £11m and Mitrovic from newly relegated Fulham for £9m (thank god for relegation release clauses). Switched the tactic to have a trequartista (Gauld) behind an AF and they have formed such a deadly relationship between Gauld's creativity and Mitrovic's finishing and heading. Thank you for bringing Gauld to my attention!

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