Thomas Tuchel's tactic at Chelsea

[poma]

Hi guys

I would like some help and advice on how to setup Chelsea's current tactic under Thomas Tuchel and "How To Boss The Midfield Like Kovacic and Jorginho" does.

As I know they play a 3-4-2-1/3-4-3 system that transforms into a 3-2-5 in attack, but the key seems to be the double pivot in midfield.

Feel free to leave a comment and and we'll see if we can make a stable tactic to play with.

Here's some analysis/pictures of game played so far under Tuchel that could be key and helpful.

Tactical Analysis – Tuchel’s 3-2-5

How To Boss The Midfield Like Kovacic and Jorginho – Tactical Analysis

 

Cheers

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by poma

[Christopher S]

Take a look at these: 
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485390/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Sheffield-United-Chelsea
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485363/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Tottenham-Chelsea
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485434/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Chelsea-Burnley

You can find average positions of the players there, for the three matches he's led Chelsea in.

[poma]

19 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

Take a look at these: 
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485390/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Sheffield-United-Chelsea
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485363/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Tottenham-Chelsea
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1485434/MatchReport/England-Premier-League-2020-2021-Chelsea-Burnley

You can find average positions of the players there, for the three matches he's led Chelsea in.

Great 

Just fired up FM

Edited February 9, 2021 by poma

[poma]

So this is what i've got in FM-terms first game:

- CHO's position is spooky when he was in the front all the time? Role: CWB-A #2

- Stable defence:  Much Higher Defensive Line

- Good pressing: Higher Line Of Engagement

- Transition: Distribute To Centerbacks

- In Possession: Play Out Of Defence

Mentality: Balanced

Overall a very good 1st game actually!

Played as I wanted to, positions good (not CHO) good combinations but wasteful in front of goal (like irl)

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by poma

[Christopher S]

Looking good. One thing to mention, is that Kovacic is generally the one dropping deeper - and he's usually deployed on the left of the centre. There's a specific pattern that also relates this in their attacking play. I'll explain: 

There's an interplay between Kovacic, Jorginho, Mount and CHO. In simple terms, it's a case of Kovacic picking the ball up from deep, and then, depending on how Mount decides to move, one of 3 things will happen. Let my terrible paint drawing explain:

#1: Mount moves out wide and CHO moves into the space he left and towards the defence. This drags a defender onto CHO and leaves Mount wide open, with Kovacic hitting the long diagonal. 
#2: Mount moves inwards, into the gap between the CMs and CBs. That tends to drag a defender further in, leaving space for CHO on the outside. Kovacic hits the diagonal - or sometimes, he'll find Mount on the ball in space instead, where Mount will run basically straight at the defenders to force a reaction, hoping to make Werner and the Striker available.
#3: If neither of those things happen, he'll most likely pass it to Jorginho (or someone else, of course).

Those three things are his most used 'plays' so far under Tuchel. Alonso is mostly played in when they switch play from the other side, as he'll have acres of space. It seems to me that they want to use the right hand side during build up, as this frees Werner up to be a bigger threat off the ball, not needing to be involved in buildup. 
Granted, this might not continue to be their go-to buildup moving forward, but it's been the case for the three games so far. 

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Christopher S

[poma]

2nd game and positions

- Need some width

- Once again right wing back isn't as high as I want to...and #10 on the pitch is to narrow and static (doesn't do anything)

- Overall ok

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by poma

[poma]

So pre-season is over and some good results to match.

I like how the team play, defend, attack and interchange.

Feel free to try and tweak 

 

Positive 3-4-2-1 - Test.1.fmf

[Christopher S]

Looks pretty accurate to me, though I'd reeiterate that I think the central midfield roles are opposite duty wise, and as such would also be different role wise (Kovacic plays on the left, Jorginho on the right). Kovacic does move more off the ball than Jorginho, so you got that part right. Kovacic is their primary outlet from the back, and drops down almost into the a 4th defender when they play out. So you could either having him as a DLPs and distribute to playmaker, and have Jorginho either as a BWMd or CMd - or you could keep those two roles and ask the keeper to distribute specifically to Kovacic - or you could try a double playmaker central mid with a DLPs and a DLPd. It sounds weird, but it actually kind of represents how they function in Tuchels system pretty accurately. Kovacic and Jorginho are dictating play hard so far, and both want the ball constantly. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Christopher S

[poma]

37 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

Looks pretty accurate to me, though I'd reeiterate that I think the central midfield roles are opposite duty wise, and as such would also be different role wise (Kovacic plays on the left, Jorginho on the right). Kovacic does move more off the ball than Jorginho, so you got that part right. Kovacic is their primary outlet from the back, and drops down almost into the a 4th defender when they play out. So you could either having him as a DLPs and distribute to playmaker, and have Jorginho either as a BWMd or CMd - or you could keep those two roles and ask the keeper to distribute specifically to Kovacic - or you could try a double playmaker central mid with a DLPs and a DLPd. It sounds weird, but it actually kind of represents how they function in Tuchels system pretty accurately. Kovacic and Jorginho are dictating play hard so far, and both want the ball constantly. 

Yeah I'm on a really bad run atm so some changes are needed. 

Seems impossible to score for now, so much wasted chances. 

Dominating games but lose on a set pice or penalty. 

Next up is Man City away so we'll se how it goes 

Edited February 10, 2021 by poma

[Christopher S]

In the spirit of accuracy, you also want to add 'Roam From Position' to Mason Mount if you haven't.

[Christopher S]

4 minutes ago, poma said:

Yeah I'm on a really bad run atm so some changes are needed. 

Seems impossible to score for now, so much wasted chances. 

Dominating games but lose on a set pice or penalty. 

 

For what it's worth, unlike some others, I've not been impressed with Chelsea under Tuchel at all. Sure, they've won three games, but it's not like they've actually created a lot of chances. Like in the game vs Spurs, sure they had like 70% possession, and had the ball in the final third alot, but it didn't really put Lloris to the test that much. They had like 20 shots where only 2-3 of the ever had any real chance of going in - and that includes the penalty. 

[NotSoSpecialOne]

If you're set on playing more direct and utilising passing into space, then in my opinion, you need to rethink that striker role at minimum. You have no one pushing the defense and looking to get behind. As it stands that role selection is probably better suited to a more patient possession system.

[Christopher S]

6 minutes ago, NotSoSpecialOne said:

If you're set on playing more direct and utilising passing into space, then in my opinion, you need to rethink that striker role at minimum. You have no one pushing the defense and looking to get behind. As it stands that role selection is probably better suited to a more patient possession system.

And that is what Tuchel is employing at Chelsea as well. Patience and possession is the underlying gameplan for sure. In my opinion, he wants to have his players play around the mid to right hand hand side of the pitch in buildup. Kovacic has the liberty to hit longer diagonals, but besides that it's mostly shorter passing. From there they look to either get crosses in from the right onto Tammy/Giroud + Werner, with Mount surging in, or to switch play; either onto Werner running in behind or Alonso in space on the opposite flank. The play switch is generally fascilitated through Mount carrying the ball and releasing it into space, or a backwards diagonal onto Jorg/Kova who then hits it out to the left/onto Werner/Mount in space towards goal. 

If neither of those options are doable, or something goes wrong while trying to do either for these things, their default is to retain possession, and try again. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Christopher S

[poma]

I did change to a "control possession" oriented setup, trashed Spurs at home 5-1 in Premier League so it seems like the way to play home at least 

DLF/A

SS/A               AP/S

CM/S     BWM/D

WB/S                                        WB/S

BPD/D  CD/C  BPD/D

SK/S

Rematch against Spurs at home in Carabao Cup ended 3-1 

 

Happy so far  (CHO is crazy good as wingback  )

Tweaking the set-pieces atm to get a little more edge and goals.

Edited February 10, 2021 by poma

[poma]

The results are good/ok, still having BIG problems to score goals though...

Tweaked a little and changed some roles, Pi's and Ti's

- Split block for the front 3

- Roam for the AM/S

 

[frukox]

14 minutes ago, poma said:

The results are good/ok, still having BIG problems to score goals though...

Tweaked a little and changed some roles, Pi's and Ti's

- Split block for the front 3

- Roam for the AM/S

 

I think CFA is not the role you are looking there as under Positive mentality he's not going to be much possession-friendly. Changing him to support due to may help system build up play in the final third better.

Another problem imo is your system lacks numbers around the penalty area. Changing Kovacic to CMA( his traits will send him deeper thus attack duty to make him go inside the box) should give you another runner from deep hard to mark while for a better linkup I also suggest Jorginho as a DLPS. Remember you still have 3 players back in the defensive line so taking risks should not be a problem.

WBA is a really direct cross-heavy role. I'd also change him to a support role to keep possession better there.

[Christopher S]

49 minutes ago, frukox said:

I think CFA is not the role you are looking there as under Positive mentality he's not going to be much possession-friendly. Changing him to support due to may help system build up play in the final third better.

Another problem imo is your system lacks numbers around the penalty area. Changing Kovacic to CMA( his traits will send him deeper thus attack duty to make him go inside the box) should give you another runner from deep hard to mark while for a better linkup I also suggest Jorginho as a DLPS. Remember you still have 3 players back in the defensive line so taking risks should not be a problem.

WBA is a really direct cross-heavy role. I'd also change him to a support role to keep possession better there.

I bolded what I'm replying to. 

Remember that this is a tactical recreation. Kovacic is absolutely not playing as a CMa, nor is Jorginho. They are playing a 2 man pivot in a 3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2 system. Wether that's optimal or not in FM21 is another discussion, but that's what they're doing. Kovacic moves more off the ball than Jorginho (is less holding), but neither really deviates from their primary job: stabilizing and distributing. That being said, Kovacic will move up to support attacks - which a DLPs in a CM position should do. However, if he isn't, you could try an RPM maybe.

Another thing to mention, that FM21 sadly doesnt do very well, is that Azpilicueta will fairly often move the ball at feet into the space James/CHO leaves behind, with Jorginho covering the space he leaves behind - transforming the team into a temporary 2-4-1-3 kind of shape. Shabby paint illustration: 

Azpi will move the ball into that area because when Rice/CHO moves up, and Mount+Tammy is in that area, the opposing winger and full back has to cover for it. This creates a massive overload while retaining 2+1 players to cover (Rudi and Silva + Jorg). Azpi can do this due to his pedigree as a fullback, but FM doesn't really allow for this all too much. I guess you could try using a Libero and try to manipulate through PIs/TIs to recreate it? Not sure if it'd work. 

Anywho, as for what Frugox said: it's sound advice in isolation, but it does against what Chelsea are doing. However, I think the striker role is most likely a DLFa, not a CFa or CFs. To me, wether its Tammy or Giroud, they aren't really roaming or trying to carry the attack themselves. They offer linkup when possible, but mainly play within an area, trying to pin defenders back and get on in the end of through balls and crosses. As for the two CMs; I think the role selection is pretty spot on. Passmaps show that Jorginho play far more backwards passes than Kovacic, indicating he's taking less risk in his passing. The role selection reflects that. Good job.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Christopher S

[frukox]

26 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

I bolded what I'm replying to. 

Remember that this is a tactical recreation. Kovacic is absolutely not playing as a CMa, nor is Jorginho. They are playing a 2 man pivot in a 3-4-2-1/3-4-1-2 system. Wether that's optimal or not in FM21 is another discussion, but that's what they're doing. Kovacic moves more off the ball than Jorginho (is less holding), but neither really deviates from their primary job: stabilizing and distributing. That being said, Kovacic will move up to support attacks - which a DLPs in a CM position should do. However, if he isn't, you could try an RPM maybe.

Another thing to mention, that FM21 sadly doesnt do very well, is that Azpilicueta will fairly often move the ball at feet into the space James/CHO leaves behind, with Jorginho covering the space he leaves behind - transforming the team into a temporary 2-4-1-3 kind of shape. Shabby paint illustration: 

Azpi will move the ball into that area because when Rice/CHO moves up, and Mount+Tammy is in that area, the opposing winger and full back has to cover for it. This creates a massive overload while retaining 2+1 players to cover (Rudi and Silva + Jorg). Azpi can do this due to his pedigree as a fullback, but FM doesn't really allow for this all too much. I guess you could try using a Libero and try to manipulate through PIs/TIs to recreate it? Not sure if it'd work. 

Anywho, as for what Frugox said: it's sound advice in isolation, but it does against what Chelsea are doing. However, I think the striker role is most likely a DLFa, not a CFa or CFs. To me, wether its Tammy or Giroud, they aren't really roaming or trying to carry the attack themselves. They offer linkup when possible, but mainly play within an area, trying to pin defenders back and get on in the end of through balls and crosses. As for the two CMs; I think the role selection is pretty spot on. Passmaps show that Jorginho play far more backwards passes than Kovacic, indicating he's taking less risk in his passing. The role selection reflects that. Good job.

So then good luck creating that extra man around the box within the limits of the ME:) Another suggestion is then adding the trait of Arrives Late into Opp Area to him to give more dynamism into the system.

I certainly agree with you. They are surely the double pivot of the system. A typical APS-DLPS CMD combo.

Edited February 11, 2021 by frukox

[Christopher S]

6 minutes ago, frukox said:

So then good luck breating that extra man around the box within the limits of the ME Another suggestion is then adding the trait of Arrives Late into Opp Area to him to give more dynamism into the system.

I certainly agree with you. They are surely the double pivot of the system. A typical APS-DLPS CMD combo.

For what it's worth, from what I can remember they generally don't do that in the first place. Kovacic will generally hover 5-10 yards outside of the box to pick up a stray clearence or maybe receive a cutback, but I can't say I've seen him attack the box with any regularity. I mentioned it previously; I'm not all too impressed with Tuchels Chelsea yet, and part of that is while they have a metric ton of possession and are "dominating games", they aren't exactly... threatening. I'm not significantly more scared of this Chelsea than I was of Lampards Chelsea. They generally only attack the box with the front 3 and sometimes the wingback from the opposite side attacking the back post. In my opinion, Chelsea looks by far the most dangerous when they attack in transitions by playing in Mount in space who will drive at the defence - or when they play it directly towards Rice on the right hand side who together with Mount goes 2v1 on a defender and create havoc. Which is ironic, considering how possession focused they are. 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Christopher S

[frukox]

2 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

For what it's worth, from what I can remember they generally don't do that in the first place. Kovacic will generally hover 5-10 yards outside of the box to pick up a stray clearence or maybe receive a cutback, but I can't say I've seen him attack the box with any regularity. I mentioned it above; I'm not all too impressed with Tuchels Chelsea yet, and part of that is while they have a metric ton of possession and are "dominating games", they aren't exactly... threatening. I'm not significantly more scared of this Chelsea than I was of Lampards Chelsea. They generally only attack the box with the front 3 and sometimes the wingback from the opposite side attacking the back post. In my opinion, Chelsea looks by far the most dangerous when they attack in transitions by playing in Mount in space who will drive at the defence - or when they play it directly towards Rice on the right hand side who together with Mount goes 2v1 on a defender and create havoc. Which is ironic, considering how possession focused they are. 

I am also aware of that but I think their test will be against low blocks due to what you mention in your post. So I think a mid-block fast transition style with short and quick passes could be way to go for their success.

[poma]

I'm on the verge of getting sacked atm, currently 9th in the league (13 games played) , a fall out in Champions League and haven't won in 8 games.

5 straight losses and 3 draws...

The team is playing so bad it's pathetic 

Back to the drawing board I guess 

Edited February 11, 2021 by poma

[frukox]

8 minutes ago, poma said:

I'm on the verge of getting sacked atm, currently 9th in the league (13 games played) , a fall out in Champions League and haven't won in 8 games.

5 straight losses and 3 draws...

The team is playing so bad it's pathetic 

Back to the drawing board I guess 

Sorry to hear that. What is your latest setup? Maybe it can be improved even more. 

If morale is low don't be harsh with your team talk and press conferences players could go down to a spiral of defeats so quickly. Morale is important to keep up getting results.

[poma]

Latest setup is the one above 

[frukox]

Just now, poma said:

Latest setup is the one above 

Then as your system employs only three central threats I'd give up playing a possession-heavy style(it requires more players in close support) and go for a fast transition style that could be especially devastating against high blocks to hit teams quickly without letting them get back into an organized defensive block.

[poma]

I really didn't think it was possible to be as bad as Chelsea in this years FM.

The squad they have is a good one, talented and it should be possible to perform but for me it isn't.

No matter what tactic a utilize, advanced, basic they can't do anything on the pitch, obviously I'm doing something very wrong here! or am I missing something? 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3....

Liverpool is overpowered as last year, teams that play 3-4-3 is dominant (even Brighton is) but if you try to play it yourself you get absolutley trashed.

Chelsea isn't a top team I know that but this is absurd 

Haven't managed to get trough a season yet before the axe banging my head 

Edited February 15, 2021 by poma

[zyfon5]

3 hours ago, poma said:

I really didn't think it was possible to be as bad as Chelsea in this years FM.

The squad they have is a good one, talented and it should be possible to perform but for me it isn't.

No matter what tactic a utilize, advanced, basic they can't do anything on the pitch, obviously I'm doing something very wrong here! or am I missing something? 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1, 4-3-3, 4-2-3-1, 3-4-3....

Liverpool is overpowered as last year, teams that play 3-4-3 is dominant (even Brighton is) but if you try to play it yourself you get absolutley trashed.

Chelsea isn't a top team I know that but this is absurd 

Haven't managed to get trough a season yet before the axe banging my head 

Obviously you havent tried Chelsea in FM20 yet.

[poma]

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

Obviously you havent tried Chelsea in FM20 yet.

And?

It was the same in FM20

Edited February 15, 2021 by poma

[latrell]

Any updates your struggle struck a nerve with me i feel your frustration.

[poma]

9 hours ago, latrell said:

Any updates your struggle struck a nerve with me i feel your frustration.

No not really...i think it's even worse after the patch/update, I will try a last time/save and after that i'm  done with FM21 

[Guest]

You're going to quit FM21 or just the recreation of Tuchel? There are issues with the tactics you have posted and I am sure people would gladly help but pleaee don't quit because you think the game or Chelsea in the game are broken.

[Guest]

As a starting point for me I would have both of those wingbacks on CWBs because I don't think they are dynamic enough the way you had them just look at the heat maps for both irl.

Looking at Jorginho and his heatmaps that role you had as a CMD would be a Carrilero for me totally. Helps cover the flanks keeps it simple but also supports when necessary. Outside of that I think the front 3 is the next biggest problem.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2021 by Crazy_Ivan

[poma]

11 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

You're going to quit FM21 or just the recreation of Tuchel? There are issues with the tactics you have posted and I am sure people would gladly help but pleaee don't quit because you think the game or Chelsea in the game are broken.

I haven't enjoyed FM21 at all and to many things are broken according to me 

[Guest]

I just went through all the heatmaps since he took over so CWB attack on the right is a given for me. I would maybe go for a support duty on the left. The CM on the right really screams Carrilero to me the CM on the left is defo more adventurous because the leftwing back is not as attacking but looking at the movement I dont think its a DLP.

Then there is the attacking trio, and I dont think that you got those right tbh but I need to have a good hard look at that.

[Ronnieekelund]

12 minutes ago, poma said:

I haven't enjoyed FM21 at all and to many things are broken according to me 

The problem with 3 cbs in fm are they just aren't dynamic enough. The outside cbs normally go into other half and join with the wbs. Far too static to replicate how chelsea play and most other teams play with 3 cbs in the real world.

[poma]

11 minutes ago, Ronnieekelund said:

The problem with 3 cbs in fm are they just aren't dynamic enough. The outside cbs normally go into other half and join with the wbs. Far too static to replicate how chelsea play and most other teams play with 3 cbs in the real world.

Yes defending doesn't work great neither do scoring goals 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, poma said:

Yes defending doesn't work great neither do scoring goals 

Are you going to engage in the posts I made or is this just a confirmation bias thread? 

[poma]

6 minutes ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

Are you going to engage in the posts I made or is this just a confirmation bias thread? 

Just fired up FM 

[poma]

3 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

I just went through all the heatmaps since he took over so CWB attack on the right is a given for me. I would maybe go for a support duty on the left. The CM on the right really screams Carrilero to me the CM on the left is defo more adventurous because the leftwing back is not as attacking but looking at the movement I dont think its a DLP.

Then there is the attacking trio, and I dont think that you got those right tbh but I need to have a good hard look at that.

This is what i got so far, haven't decided the front 3 yet

I'm thinking about a possession/gegenpress type of tactic...

 

 

How Mateo Kovacic’s role has evolved under different Chelsea managers

Edited February 28, 2021 by poma

[latrell]

Good to see you not giving up Poma sometimes i find i have to have a week of fm and come back with some fresh ideas, i found in my case i was just expecting to much out of my team in a tough league when in reality my team would play the football i want in say four or five games out of ten if that makes sense.

[Ronnieekelund]

3 hours ago, poma said:

This is what i got so far, haven't decided the front 3 yet

I'm thinking about a possession/gegenpress type of tactic...

 

 

How Mateo Kovacic’s role has evolved under different Chelsea managers

Have you tried Jorginho as a bwm defend duty?. I dont see him more than that under Tuchel so far and has worked well for me with Kovacevic as a bbm.

Not sure bbm replicates Kovacevic 100% but gets results. I also use a wide 3 in attack.

[poma]

56 minutes ago, Ronnieekelund said:

Have you tried Jorginho as a bwm defend duty?. I dont see him more than that under Tuchel so far and has worked well for me with Kovacevic as a bbm.

Not sure bbm replicates Kovacevic 100% but gets results. I also use a wide 3 in attack.

Yeah I'm out of ideas soon 😁

Pre-season is very good but when season starts the team can't pass, shoot , cross, attack or defend. The whole team seems broken and I don't get why at all 😂 and I also use a wide 3 in attack 👍

Edited February 28, 2021 by poma

[Boothy0910]

Go find Bophonet's blog. He covered Tuchel's tactics for FM17. Although it's in italian, there are ways of translating.

I only started a Chelsea save file when he got the Chelsesa job, 1st season finished 2nd on 81 points, this season i'm top with 7 to play.

Unsure whether it's still relevant to his current style of play, but one of the tactics discussed there is close to the first screenshot you posted of your tactic above, with two defensive wingers.

[poma]

13 minutes ago, Boothy0910 said:

Go find Bophonet's blog. He covered Tuchel's tactics for FM17. Although it's in italian, there are ways of translating.

I only started a Chelsea save file when he got the Chelsesa job, 1st season finished 2nd on 81 points, this season i'm top with 7 to play.

Unsure whether it's still relevant to his current style of play, but one of the tactics discussed there is close to the first screenshot you posted of your tactic above, with two defensive wingers.

Thanx, Will have a look at it 👍

[Johnny Ace]

It's hard replicating real life tactics in FM, you watch the roles in play then try & replicate them & it makes no sense. You have to remember, this is FM 

The middle two are key with no DM, though you do have the 3 at the back which are handy 

I'd start really simple & have every player's PPM's in mind, they'll affect things as the roles won't play out properly

I've watched none of Chelsea under Tuchel just going by what's on here

 

                              AF(A)

                     AM(S)       AM(S)

WB(S)         CM(S)        CM(D)         CWB(S)

     

          CD(ST)         BPD(D)        CD(ST)

                              SK(S)

 

I'd ask the the CM's to Sit Wider, just to help link up with the WB's

Positive/ Shorter/Much Passing/ Play out from the back/ WBIB

You can't replicate Azpi's role, he looks like a part CB, part FB so ask him to stay wider, that's the best you'll get, his PPMs might help out here

The CMs might be a bit boring, I don't know how the stoppers will position themselves to help cover in front of the DL but I wouldn't get too exotic with them 

AMs you can add what you want them, check the PPMs of the players, you'll probably not need to instruct anything

TI's not sure, it looks like they have plenty of shots & keep the ball well. Could remove WBIB if it cuts the crosses too much, I can imagine Giroud & Tammy are pretty damn good in the air

Edited March 1, 2021 by Johnny Ace

[poma]

20 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

It's hard replicating real life tactics in FM, you watch the roles in play then try & replicate them & it makes no sense. You have to remember, this is FM 

The middle two are key with no DM, though you do have the 3 at the back which are handy 

I'd start really simple & have every player's PPM's in mind, they'll affect things as the roles won't play out properly

I've watched none of Chelsea under Tuchel just going by what's on here

 

                              AF(A)

                     AM(S)       AM(S)

WB(S)         CM(S)        CM(D)         CWB(S)

     

          CD(ST)         BPD(D)        CD(ST)

                              SK(S)

 

I'd ask the the CM's to Sit Wider, just to help link up with the WB's

Positive/ Shorter/Much Passing/ Play out from the back/ WBIB

You can't replicate Azpi's role, he looks like a part CB, part FB so ask him to stay wider, that's the best you'll get, his PPMs might help out here

The CMs might be a bit boring, I don't know how the stoppers will position themselves to help cover in front of the DL but I wouldn't get too exotic with them 

AMs you can add what you want them, check the PPMs of the players, you'll probably not need to instruct anything

TI's not sure, it looks like they have plenty of shots & keep the ball well. Could remove WBIB if it cuts the crosses too much, I can imagine Giroud & Tammy are pretty damn good in the air

Off course i know and understand that you can't replicate real-life-tactics in FM, but it's frustrating to not make a top team perform at all with any given tactic.

As i wrote before for ME soo many things are broken and has been since FM19, tactics, ME, overpowered teams and soo on but i keep trying and understand why this is.

You have some good ideas in your post there mate so when i have the time i'll get back to the drawing board and try making something stable to work with.

Cheers and thanx! 

[crusadertsar]

3 hours ago, poma said:

Off course i know and understand that you can't replicate real-life-tactics in FM, but it's frustrating to not make a top team perform at all with any given tactic.

As i wrote before for ME soo many things are broken and has been since FM19, tactics, ME, overpowered teams and soo on but i keep trying and understand why this is.

You have some good ideas in your post there mate so when i have the time i'll get back to the drawing board and try making something stable to work with.

Cheers and thanx! 

This is a tactics discussion forum. If you believe that ME is broken or there's a bug then you should bring this up in the bugs section. Blaming ME on your tactical troubles isn't going to get you far here. Especially when you are trying to achieve possession control style while only using two central midfielders and aggressive attackers. How are you supposed to form short passing triangles when most of your players are in defence or attack? If I were you I would go back to a tactical drawing board and define what are the essentials you want to achieve and then  look for a simple shape that can bring that. 

Personally I dont think there's anything wrong with the ME. If anything it's a huge improvement over the previous ones whereas now it's so much harder to cheese the system. It's more realistic and challenging. And it makes it so you really have to find balance in your roles, duties and instructions. And you cannot just ignore the AI manager which is actively trying to break your game plan and is equally as important as your own tactics.

Edited March 2, 2021 by crusadertsar

[poma]

Well if you can't have your own opinion about tactics and the ME there's no point keeping this one open 

[Guest]

On 28/02/2021 at 19:10, poma said:

Yeah I'm out of ideas soon 😁

Pre-season is very good but when season starts the team can't pass, shoot , cross, attack or defend. The whole team seems broken and I don't get why at all 😂 and I also use a wide 3 in attack 👍

What kind of reputation do you start out on in saves? The most challenging thing for me in my saves is I know my tactics are sound but because I start off with a terrible(I suppose realistic) reputation morale drops early on regardless of how well the team does. I find morale to be a huge key factor in the game, personally I think it's a tad overcooked but there we go as well as the obvious bit of get your team cohesion up to speed as quickly as possible. 

This seems fine to me tbh based on what I have seen the last two games with Chelsea but I really believe the key to the whole tactic is that front three and how they are set up. What are your thoughts on their roles?

[Johnny Ace]

Yeah, tactical familiarity & team cohesion do make a difference, once it starts to click, your team plays a lot better 

Try it out in Touch where none of that matters  

[poma]

This is what i have atm, haven't had the time to play so can't give you any feedback yet, but feel free to try the tactic. 

The following Pi's are given to:

RPM-S (Kovacic) - Dribble More

CM-S (Jorginho) - Hold Position

CWB-A (James) - Pass It Shorter & Take Fewer Risks

CD-D (Azpi) - Stay Wider

Set-pieces are default.

Chelsea 3-4-3.fmf

Edited March 2, 2021 by poma