4 years with Chelsea and no success - advice needed!

[MRAFTCT]

Hello all, I am at the start of my 4th season with Chelsea and although I have been building a bit of a FM dream team, I am struggling to compete with Liverpool and Man Utd in the game. So far, I have only won the FA Cup in my first season and should have won the league there as well but a draw in the 3rd last game meant I lost on goal difference.

Since that first season though a similar pattern has started where I struggle in big games home and away (have not reached the semi finals of the CL yet) and also lose or draw games because I don't score enough goals and are prone to conceding easy goals. Every year I think it will be different but I have started this season with 2 away defeats to Man Utd and Arsenal. Games were 50/50 but as usual, I lose!

My tactic then is as below, I am aiming for a possession based high press split block system (front 4 on Close Down More) where play is focused down the right and then goals come from the striker AMC and AML. Joao Felix at AMC has been awful for me since I signed him the previous season which is one of my main issues.

My mentality was positive but kept finding my players were giving the ball away with long diagonals and being countered too easy so changed to Balanced.

any advise or feedback to sort out my issues would be welcomed, thanks!

 

 

[Mr_Demus]

I am not great with tactics, but I will try anyway.

 

Counter and possession are, in my mind, not logical mixes.

Your ST, AMC and AML alle kind of compete for the same space. Change the role of the forward to a PF A or DLF A, maybe CF A. Drop AMC to support.

You have your attacking back on the right side, but your backtracking mid on the left. Switch positions of the MC's.

Drop LOE to standard.

[Christopher S]

1 hour ago, Mr_Demus said:

I am not great with tactics, but I will try anyway.

 

Counter and possession are, in my mind, not logical mixes.

Your ST, AMC and AML alle kind of compete for the same space. Change the role of the forward to a PF A or DLF A, maybe CF A. Drop AMC to support.

You have your attacking back on the right side, but your backtracking mid on the left. Switch positions of the MC's.

Drop LOE to standard.

That seems like a good starting point - well put. 

In case you'd like to go another route, you can try this: 
- Like Demus said, swap the roles of your two CMs. 
- Felix and Fati are currently set up to be your primary attacking threats through the roles you've selected. If you want to keep that, change your striker to DLFs, CFs or an F9 (depending on your strikers attributes). This will turn him into a creative player instead, creating space and linkups for Felix and Fati to play off of. 
- I personally don't mind Higher DL + Higher LoE. Compressing space by lowering the LoE is fine, but if you feel like your central defenders and central midfielders are controlling the space in the middle well as it is, don't change it. That way, it can be a situational change against teams that are creating trouble in that space, or against teams that are parking the bus (to draw them out). 
- Consider a split block if you haven't instructed it. This means adding More Urgent pressing to your front 4 players. It synergizes very well with top heavy formations like 4-2-3-1, and with high block systems like yours. 
- I would also try changing your FB-left from FBs to WBs, to support the IFa better, and to link up more with the DLPs (that will be on the left side now). If that results in him getting too far up, you can tune that through PIs like Cross from Deep or Dribble Less. That way, he will be less inclined to lose the ball himself. 

System after tweaks: 

Suggested PIs: 

Striker, AML, AMC, AMR: More Urgent Pressing
If your WBs leaves too much space and/or loses the ball while trying to dribble to the byline: Dribble Less/Cross From Deep

----------------------

That should leave you with two different systems that have different primary outlets for goals. 

In Demus' version, Silva remains a primary goal threat together with Fati, while Felix takes a creative role. In my version, Felix and Silva switch primary responsibility. Worth nothing that in both versions, both Silva and Felix will still get goals and assists due to their positioning and attributes. 

[olegmelnikov]

1 hour ago, Christopher S said:

That seems like a good starting point - well put. 

In case you'd like to go another route, you can try this: 
- Like Demus said, swap the roles of your two CMs. 
- Felix and Fati are currently set up to be your primary attacking threats through the roles you've selected. If you want to keep that, change your striker to DLFs, CFs or an F9 (depending on your strikers attributes). This will turn him into a creative player instead, creating space and linkups for Felix and Fati to play off of. 
- I personally don't mind Higher DL + Higher LoE. Compressing space by lowering the LoE is fine, but if you feel like your central defenders and central midfielders are controlling the space in the middle well as it is, don't change it. That way, it can be a situational change against teams that are creating trouble in that space, or against teams that are parking the bus (to draw them out). 
- Consider a split block if you haven't instructed it. This means adding More Urgent pressing to your front 4 players. It synergizes very well with top heavy formations like 4-2-3-1, and with high block systems like yours. 
- I would also try changing your FB-left from FBs to WBs, to support the IFa better, and to link up more with the DLPs (that will be on the left side now). If that results in him getting too far up, you can tune that through PIs like Cross from Deep or Dribble Less. That way, he will be less inclined to lose the ball himself. 

System after tweaks: 

Suggested PIs: 

Striker, AML, AMC, AMR: More Urgent Pressing
If your WBs leaves too much space and/or loses the ball while trying to dribble to the byline: Dribble Less/Cross From Deep

----------------------

That should leave you with two different systems that have different primary outlets for goals. 

In Demus' version, Silva remains a primary goal threat together with Fati, while Felix takes a creative role. In my version, Felix and Silva switch primary responsibility. Worth nothing that in both versions, both Silva and Felix will still get goals and assists due to their positioning and attributes. 

@MRAFTCT as for me - great tweaks.

I only can advise to be more compact in defense. 

4231 - is a top heavy formation. I think there is no need to play higher line of engagement. Higher defensive line + standard LOE can be perfect. And split block of course.

And sorry, but I'm not sure about your choice of players for your 2CM. Tonali better to play as DP, but Moriba - he is not good in defensive play as for me. 

These two positions (2MC) are vital for your play. You definitely need 2 players who are at least good in defense.

And for your RB role - i think Wing back can give much more support than FBa

 

[MRAFTCT]

Thanks all for the tips so far, I have adjusted it slightly with the recommendations:

 

 

I think that as I want to focus the play down the right, i have kept the DLP but in defend. Will need to keep a check on the CMs for Moriba. I could make it Tonali/Camavinga to make it more solid I suppose. I already have the split post as per the OP so at least i had that right!

i have played a few games with this tactic and so far it has certainly helped. I think i will reduce the LOE for the bigger games as well, see how that goes.

Joao Felix has certainly improved which is a relief as he's too good to be wasted!

[olegmelnikov]

Personally, I don't like CMsu in 4231. He competes with AMsu in your tactics. 

Sorry, but why you don't play James as a WBsu? In some matches add Overlap Right TI to improve his mentality. WB is much more aggressive and you have Camavinga as a great cover). Do not forget, you manage Chelsea

And sorry, for me the defensive part of your tactics is vulnerable. High defensive line, Counter Press as constant TI (could be very dangerous in matches with TOP teams).

 

[MRAFTCT]

7 minutes ago, olegmelnikov said:

Do not forget, you manage Chelsea

3 years with no trophies has made me feel inferior!

No need to apologise also, happy to take criticism and any advice. Personally i prefer 4 3 3 classic but really struggle for goals with that tactic.

I will revert to WBsu with James, he was that in previous seasons.

[olegmelnikov]

3 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

3 years with no trophies has made me feel inferior!

No need to apologise also, happy to take criticism and any advice. Personally i prefer 4 3 3 classic but really struggle for goals with that tactic.

I will revert to WBsu with James, he was that in previous seasons.

You've got very powerful and young players - I think everything is ahead) 

[Mr_Demus]

1 hour ago, MRAFTCT said:

Thanks all for the tips so far, I have adjusted it slightly with the recommendations:

 

 

I think that as I want to focus the play down the right, i have kept the DLP but in defend. Will need to keep a check on the CMs for Moriba. I could make it Tonali/Camavinga to make it more solid I suppose. I already have the split post as per the OP so at least i had that right!

i have played a few games with this tactic and so far it has certainly helped. I think i will reduce the LOE for the bigger games as well, see how that goes.

Joao Felix has certainly improved which is a relief as he's too good to be wasted!

CM S is quite attacking. You want your two CM's to be holding. DLP S and CM D would be better

[Christopher S]

59 minutes ago, olegmelnikov said:

Personally, I don't like CMsu in 4231. He competes with AMsu in your tactics. 

Sorry, but why you don't play James as a WBsu? In some matches add Overlap Right TI to improve his mentality. WB is much more aggressive and you have Camavinga as a great cover). Do not forget, you manage Chelsea

And sorry, for me the defensive part of your tactics is vulnerable. High defensive line, Counter Press as constant TI (could be very dangerous in matches with TOP teams).

 

FBa has a higher individual mentality than a WBs. He will be more willing to attack and to take risks, but will do so from a lower starting position. All the FB roles also inherently prioritize defending more than the WB roles. WBa might be too aggressive, and is a very demanding role. Personally, I don't like WBa without a DM. That being said, Rice is an excellent player and it could work - only way to try is to test it out. 

27 minutes ago, Mr_Demus said:

CM S is quite attacking. You want your two CM's to be holding. DLP S and CM D would be better

DLPd + CAR works well too. You don't need two holding players, necessarily. Holding+covering is just fine. The CAR role will cover the left flank and link up defense and attack nicely. 

[olegmelnikov]

9 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

I don't like WBa without a DM.

I don't like WBa at all) too risky) WBsu and TI overlap works pretty well.

10 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

Rice is an excellent player and it could work - only way to try is to test it out. 

Test it out is very important.

11 minutes ago, Christopher S said:

The CAR role will cover the left flank and link up defense and attack nicely. 

Yes, that was the first role I've thought about. For possession based style could work pretty well. 

[glengarry224]

Hi,

For a possession based tactic, I think that you want more support duties and fewer attack duties, although with a 'balanced' mentality you can maybe go with more attack duties overall.  Maybe 1-2 attack duties total. 

Good team instructions for possession style, not that you need them all:

• shorter passing
• lower tempo
• narrow attack (players are closer together)
• work ball into box
• short kick distribution
• distribute to fullbacks and/or center backs

FB or WB on support are both better than attack duty, because on attack, your fullbacks will look more to beat their man and quickly get the ball to a forward player, vs on support, and with shorter passing, and maybe lower tempo, they will look more to pass to an open teammate nearby, and keep possession. 

Note that the in-game description for FB(a) indicates that the fullback will provide "first time crosses into the area," versus FB(s), who will "look for crosses and through balls when the opportunity for each arises."  And WB(a) looks to attack his man and get in crosses from the byline.

Edited February 9, 2021 by glengarry224

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

I am aiming for a possession based high press split block system

If you are aiming for a possession-based system, then you need a slightly different setup of roles and duties, to begin with. This includes a bit more attack-minded fullback on the left - I said "more attack-minded", not on attack duty - as well as one more support duty instead of attack among the front four as well as a more creative or roaming or deeper role (not duty) for the striker. 

The DLP would make more sense behind the attacking IF (than the supporting IW), so I would swap the positions of the 2 CMs. Especially as the right flank needs better defensive protection that the left one, considering the attacking fullback. 

The counter in transition should be removed if possession is your priority in terms of playing style. Because the instruction encourages players to attempt a counter-attack at every single opportunity, even when chances of success aren't great. On top of that, players will try to execute a counter from time to time even without the instruction, just in a more sensible manner and not too often. 

When it comes to split block, it tends to work better when you have optimal compactness. Meaning you should drop the LOE just one notch - to standard instead of higher.

[Experienced Defender]

EDIT: My comment pertains to your first tactic. I've only now seen that you created another one in the meantime. 

[Mr_Demus]

15 hours ago, Christopher S said:

DLPd + CAR works well too. You don't need two holding players, necessarily. Holding+covering is just fine. The CAR role will cover the left flank and link up defense and attack nicely. 

I meant to add...if he wanted to keep the DLP/CM combo. Other roles, the CAR for one, could work as well.

[MRAFTCT]

Thanks everyone for the comments, updated the formation slightly with the advice given so far. Things have certainly improved as i have been on a decent run and have squeezed past City at home. the Man Utd juggernaut though is in full flow, (P13 won 12 L 1) so i am 3 points off top.

My last query would be as i have changed the DLP to the left side, does the Focus play down the right still make sense? i am thinking of removing it

[Christopher S]

You could try to remove it. I think inherently, your system will find it easier to play out through the right hand side as opposed to the left. Foden will come deeper than Fati, and since Camavinga will hold position fairly deep, him, Felix, James and Foden will all be in close proximity. If it works well enough, then keep it off. 

Edited February 10, 2021 by Christopher S

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

My last query would be as i have changed the DLP to the left side, does the Focus play down the right still make sense? i am thinking of removing it

The best way to find out is to test the tactic both with and without the instruction (focus right). 

Btw, your last tactic looks good, especially in terms of roles and duties 

[MRAFTCT]

8 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Btw, your last tactic looks good, especially in terms of roles and duties 

Thanks, i thought it looked good but unfortunately my players didn't!

Just lost away to Villa and now this to Brighton...and if it wasnt for the last 10mins the xG was very much in Brighton's favour.

I love this game but my lack of success is killing me! :@

[Experienced Defender]

2 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

Thanks, i thought it looked good but unfortunately my players didn't!

Just lost away to Villa and now this to Brighton...and if it wasnt for the last 10mins the xG was very much in Brighton's favour

That does not necessarily mean that the tactic itself is bad. It's obviously not a plug'n'play tactic, so you should not use it in that way. Because normal tactics - unlike PnP/exploits - require occasional small and subtle tweaks. So you need to watch what happens on the pitch and react accordingly if/when necessary.

As important, a tactic that is well-designed can fail due to a wrong player selection relative to roles. A lack of or poorly executed player rotation can also affect the performance. 

Last but not least, a good tactic can fail to succeed simply because it does not suit your players in an optimal way.

I cannot say what's the exact reason in this particular case, just giving some examples to serve you as food for thought.

[olegmelnikov]

11 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

Thanks, i thought it looked good but unfortunately my players didn't!

Just lost away to Villa and now this to Brighton...and if it wasnt for the last 10mins the xG was very much in Brighton's favour.

I love this game but my lack of success is killing me! :@

Patience and only patience)

How many matches have you played with new tactics? What about tactical familiarity? 

Do you watch full match? How did you concede goals from Brighton? Counters?

And I'm still not sure about Moriba as DP... Can you share a screenshot of his stats and traits?

 

[MRAFTCT]

24 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

That does not necessarily mean that the tactic itself is bad. It's obviously not a plug'n'play tactic, so you should not use it in that way. Because normal tactics - unlike PnP/exploits - require occasional small and subtle tweaks. So you need to watch what happens on the pitch and react accordingly if/when necessary.

As important, a tactic that is well-designed can fail due to a wrong player selection relative to roles. A lack of or poorly executed player rotation can also affect the performance. 

Last but not least, a good tactic can fail to succeed simply because it does not suit your players in an optimal way.

I cannot say what's the exact reason in this particular case, just giving some examples to serve you as food for thought.

I have been playing Football Manager/Champ Manager for about 20 years and I don't ever want to use a plug and play tactic. However, especially probably the last 6 versions or so, i have really struggled to get success with my own thought process of how I would want my team to play. 

I use these forums all the time looking for inspiration because its became quite apparent that i am just not good at noticing what is going wrong. I feel like I have an extremely strong squad and have done for most of this career with Chelsea and have nothing to show for it, so it is extremely frustrating.

As I am now 13 points behind Man Utd, it's back to the drawing board...

 

 

[Jaye]

I'm fairly confident the issue lies in your player selection and not with the tactic.

Taking your left side, for example. Fati is a great attacker but has no work rate so probably doesn't come back to defend as much as he should. Mendes is a monster left back but he gets forward a lot. Holding the fort is Moriba, who is another great attacking player who can't tackle or mark, and has low work rate. If he has a trait that encourages him forward as well (Arrives Late in Opponent's Area, Gets Further Forward, etc.) then he's not going to be doing much defending on a flank that really needs it. 

So it might be worth trying some games with Camavinga as your DLP(S) and Tonali as your CM(D) to see if your defence improves. If it does, the rest should click into place because it seems the attack is working as it should be. 

[MRAFTCT]

38 minutes ago, Jaye said:

I'm fairly confident the issue lies in your player selection and not with the tactic.

Taking your left side, for example. Fati is a great attacker but has no work rate so probably doesn't come back to defend as much as he should. Mendes is a monster left back but he gets forward a lot. Holding the fort is Moriba, who is another great attacking player who can't tackle or mark, and has low work rate. If he has a trait that encourages him forward as well (Arrives Late in Opponent's Area, Gets Further Forward, etc.) then he's not going to be doing much defending on a flank that really needs it. 

So it might be worth trying some games with Camavinga as your DLP(S) and Tonali as your CM(D) to see if your defence improves. If it does, the rest should click into place because it seems the attack is working as it should be. 

Thanks for the advice, I will certainly have a look at it. @olegmelnikov hasn't been happy with Moriba but i think my stubborness has left me saying he will work at DLP!

I definitely have issues with player selections as I thought Camavinga or Tonali would be suffice to cover the defensive side of the team.

But I am probably wrong and now wondering if a more standard 4 3 3 would be a better shape for my preferred style.

 

[glengarry224]

Do you have a second tactic, which is close in shape/roles/duties, but is more solid defensively?  It's good to have an alternative, which you've trained, for when your first tactic is not working, for when you are an underdog, for when you get a lead against a good team, etc.

You have a top-heavy system (no DMs), with 2 wingbacks getting forward, counter-press and a high defensive line.  That can work, but it will sometimes leave your two CBs alone - maybe with just the CM(d) to help - to shut down  counter attacks.  Do the CBs have the acceleration, anticipation, positioning, work rate and bravery to do that in the EPL, especially against tough opposition?  At the top of the EPL/CL, you'll generally want attributes of at least '15' to compete but with this system, your CBs might need higher.  Does your GK have the attributes to sweep up behind?

After trying your tactic for a while, you will need to look at how your opponents are scoring.  Good to look at how your opponent created opportunities, even if they failed.  Look at your analyst report and also replay the goals against you, and key highlights.  Counter attacks?  Set pieces?  Counters off of set pieces?  Was your defense in position? 

[MadOnion]

It goes without saying but morale is really important. If you're on a bad run don't expect to hit the ground running with the new tactic. Praise their conduct/training etc...

I also tend to keep an eye on possession and number of shots. I'm not sure how good Brighton but those possession stats, and allowed shots on targets, aren't great for a team as good as yours, especially playing at home.

You may add "Dribble less", in order to aid possession. Your attacking duties will be responsible for dribbling along with and other players with "running" traits. There's also the "work ball into box", but I'd try one or the other in a few matches first.

Final tip: watch the game in comprehensive highlights for the 10/15mins whilst the tactic is new. Do you like what you're seeing? If not, what would you change and why?

[Experienced Defender]

Speaking of player selection, the most important thing when using the 4231 formation is to make sure that both CMs are defensively reliable players, besides being able to provide forwards with proper support. Otherwise, your system is likely to suffer defensively, especially against counter-attacking opposition.

[olegmelnikov]

3 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

@olegmelnikov hasn't been happy with Moriba but i think my stubborness has left me saying he will work at DLP!

 

14 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Speaking of player selection, the most important thing when using the 4231 formation is to make sure that both CMs are defensively reliable players, besides being able to provide forwards with proper support.

So, I scouted Moriba in my save)

 

As for me, he is not perfect player for 4231 as DPsu.

He is very good player, but for me is much more attack minded (positioning 11 and traits "run with the ball often" and "tries tricks" are not for the holding CM role in 4231. 

I suppose Camavinga/Tonali is perfect mactch for this position. 

 

[MRAFTCT]

Taking all the advice on board, I believe my tactic does not suit my players, especially in midfield. Also as Barcelona came in and offered 130m for Tonali and he made a fuss, he had to go. Therefore, I have decided to move to a 4 3 3 (my usual preference anyway!). The aim is to be solid defensively with a high press with a split block, play possession football with my WBs providing the width, movement provided by the CMat, IFsu to support the DLF.

 

 

Looking at my CMsu role i have replaced Tonali with Barella (Camvinga would usually be DMd and now looking for another DM to cover him.) looking at their stats i would say Mount and Barella could cover the CMsu role quite well. Things have started well as the poor form has stopped and also beat Man Utd 1 - 0 at home and after they also got beat by Liverpool, the difference is now 6 points with 17 games to go.

Does this tactic firstly, look OK and also secondly, do my players suit the roles, especially the more advanced midfielders?

Thanks! 

[Experienced Defender]

6 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

The aim is to be solid defensively with a high press with a split block

In order for the split block to work in an optimal way, I would suggest dropping the LOE just 1 notch (to standard), so that you would have the optimal level of compactness. 

 

6 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

play possession football with my WBs providing the width, movement provided by the CMat, IFsu to support the DLF

Both for the sake of possession football and balance of roles and duties, I would just switch the LCM's role (Mount) from CM on support to DLP on support. Because your wide roles on the left require a more holding or covering midfielder type, as opposed to a runner. Basically someone to help recycle possession from deeper central areas, rather than running forward and potentially competing for space and influence with the supporting IF. 

As for the rest of the tactic, I would rather avoid narrow attacking width, simply because of the fact that Chelsea is a top team that mostly faces defensive opposition. So it makes little sense to limit your attacking options against those deep and packed defenses by narrowing your attacking width, especially as you play on a relatively moderate (balanced) team mentality. 

[MRAFTCT]

25 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

In order for the split block to work in an optimal way, I would suggest dropping the LOE just 1 notch (to standard), so that you would have the optimal level of compactness. 

 

Both for the sake of possession football and balance of roles and duties, I would just switch the LCM's role (Mount) from CM on support to DLP on support. Because your wide roles on the left require a more holding or covering midfielder type, as opposed to a runner. Basically someone to help recycle possession from deeper central areas, rather than running forward and potentially competing for space and influence with the supporting IF. 

As for the rest of the tactic, I would rather avoid narrow attacking width, simply because of the fact that Chelsea is a top team that mostly faces defensive opposition. So it makes little sense to limit your attacking options against those deep and packed defenses by narrowing your attacking width, especially as you play on a relatively moderate (balanced) team mentality. 

Thank you very much! will try these outs.

[MRAFTCT]

A quick update with the changes I have made using the feedback here. Below is the formation and probably my best 11 currently. I added Force Opposition outside as I was losing lots of goals from through balls.

Overall the results have been good, couple of disappointing draws but they are tough games. Good results v Arsenal and away to Real Soceidad.

 

Long may it continue

[olegmelnikov]

 

5 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

Overall the results have been good, couple of disappointing draws but they are tough games.

Mr. Abramovich is it you?

16 matches, 14 wins, 2 draws, 42 goals - 2.6 average per match, only 6 conceded

I think that's great results)

[MRAFTCT]

12 hours ago, olegmelnikov said:

 

Mr. Abramovich is it you?

16 matches, 14 wins, 2 draws, 42 goals - 2.6 average per match, only 6 conceded

I think that's great results)

Yeah it was and I have played some good football with Silva and Fati scoring lots of goals. Unfortunately at the crunch time of the season, I lost to Spurs away ☹️

Also just got beat 3 1 away to Utd in CL away game. Season 5 I will need to find a way to win the big away games. I think I will need to create a tactic purely for those games.

[frukox]

38 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

Yeah it was and I have played some good football with Silva and Fati scoring lots of goals. Unfortunately at the crunch time of the season, I lost to Spurs away ☹️

Also just got beat 3 1 away to Utd in CL away game. Season 5 I will need to find a way to win the big away games. I think I will need to create a tactic purely for those games.

Go up to Positive and remove PooD if they don't let you play your own game.

Add at least one more early runner to your attacking transitions and possibly Pass Into Space.

Remove Counterpress and add Regroup. This would let you turn back into an organized defensive shape and hit them on the counter. Don't forget to turn one of your WBs to FBS for more defensive stability.

Edited February 13, 2021 by frukox

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

Unfortunately at the crunch time of the season, I lost to Spurs away ☹️

Also just got beat 3 1 away to Utd in CL away game

A loss against another top team is quite normal, both in real football and FM, especially away from home. So I wouldn't be bothered about that as long as overall results are within or above expectations.

[MRAFTCT]

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

A loss against another top team is quite normal, both in real football and FM, especially away from home. So I wouldn't be bothered about that as long as overall results are within or above expectations.

I know it is normal but winning one or two would be nice. I am thinking I need a more stable defensive formation for away games like @frukox mentioned.

With the team I have I do think I should be dominating the league, especially as the majority have been here for 2 to 3 seasons. So I don't think my results are within my expectations anyway 

[Experienced Defender]

If you have a tactic that generally works well, then you need just a couple of small subtle tweaks to make it a bit more defensively stable against strong opposition (as opposed to creating another totally different tactic). 

For example, if you use the counter-press in your main tactic, sometimes all you need to do against tough opposition is to just remove that instruction. Sometimes another small tweak or two may be needed, but nothing extraordinary. 

Of course, nothing can guarantee that you'll win every single such match (or at least avoid defeat), not least because in this kind of matches there are factors other than the mere tactic that can affect performance (e.g. team talks, press conferences and stuff like that) to a greater extent than in regular games. Which after all shows how realistic FM is as a game. 

[MRAFTCT]

Thanks for the advice, I will certainly try this in any upcoming games I have. I love the game and do appreciate you can't win every game. But I do lose a lot of the big games and there is a sort of inevitability about them now.

I don't think I am too far away from glory but it is sore to put so much effort in with nothing to really show for it thus far ☹️

[Experienced Defender]

58 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

But I do lose a lot of the big games

In a screenshot you posted earlier, I saw that you won Man Utd (1-0) and Arsenal (3-0), which are both top teams 

 

[MRAFTCT]

39 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

In a screenshot you posted earlier, I saw that you won Man Utd (1-0) and Arsenal (3-0), which are both top teams 

 

They are home games, I do okay with those ones...this season I have lost away to Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, City...also to Villa and Norwich as well.

Managed to scrape a draw to Liverpool is my highlight from big away games 😃🙈

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

10 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

They are home games, I do okay with those ones...this season I have lost away to Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs, City...also to Villa and Norwich as well

That can be a result of your good results, in the sense that they forced opponents to adapt their tactics and play with more respect against you, which otherwise would not have been the case. Which in turn means that you must be prepared to make small tweaks to your tactic during certain matches based on what you observe on the pitch. But given that your tactic itself is already well-balanced and sensibly designed, those potential tweaks should not be big by any means. 

 

14 minutes ago, MRAFTCT said:

Managed to scrape a draw to Liverpool is my highlight from big away games

That's a fantastic result. I often lose to Liverpool even at home, let alone away. Even when I outperform them, they somehow manage to win a lot of times 

[MRAFTCT]

Thanks for all your feedback, I will make small tweaks for the big games, especially the TIs.

24 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

That's a fantastic result. I often lose to Liverpool even at home, let alone away. Even when I outperform them, they somehow manage to win a lot of times 

Yeah usually happens to me...but i now have that problem with Man Utd as well...

Man Utd have from the outside a really unbalanced players (De Jong at CB, Pogba and Bentacur as their 2 in a 4 2 3 1), have OGS still as manager...but have won more or less everything! 🤷

[MRAFTCT]

So now its 4 seasons without success , lost in the CL semi final to Man Utd 4-3 and finished 3rd behind Liverpool and Man Utd (again!)

Continuing into 5th season and also continuing with the formation above but also created a more structured one for tough away games as per below:

Standard

Away formation

I managed to beat Man Utd away and drew 1 1 with Spurs away as they scored a last minute equaliser. However drawing 2 2 at home to Norwich when i was 2 up with 6 mins to go was really disappointing. Also drew away to West Ham and Wolves even though I was leading in those games as well.

I seem to concede a lot from through balls and corners. I am trying to address the corners within set pieces but not too sure how to stop the through balls. I did have force them outside but then I felt I was conceding too many from crosses.

Currently 2 points behind Man City having played 8 games so its going ok...hopefully this is the year!

[Mr_Demus]

Obviously, I don't know your players stats and so on, but I can show you a formation, that I have had success with. It's quite similar to yours.

 

 

PI's:

MEZ: Close down more

IF: Close down more, sit narrower

IW: Close down more

DLF: Close down more, roam from position

 

OI's:

Always press full backs and wingbacks

Always tight mark AMC

 

Obviosly, your main goalscorer will be the AML with the ST dropping deeper, and acting as a distributor, so he needs to have good playmaking-like skills.

 

[MRAFTCT]

2 hours ago, Mr_Demus said:

Obviously, I don't know your players stats and so on, but I can show you a formation, that I have had success with. It's quite similar to yours.

 

 

PI's:

MEZ: Close down more

IF: Close down more, sit narrower

IW: Close down more

DLF: Close down more, roam from position

 

OI's:

Always press full backs and wingbacks

Always tight mark AMC

 

Obviosly, your main goalscorer will be the AML with the ST dropping deeper, and acting as a distributor, so he needs to have good playmaking-like skills.

 

Thanks for the idea, are you getting enough goals outwith your IF?

I had a 0 0 draw against Fulham there and now have drawn 6 won 6 in the league...not ideal!

[Mr_Demus]

3 hours ago, MRAFTCT said:

Thanks for the idea, are you getting enough goals outwith your IF?

I had a 0 0 draw against Fulham there and now have drawn 6 won 6 in the league...not ideal!

Yeah, we scored a fair amount. Most goals was from IF, IW and MEZ

[MRAFTCT]

Ugh....

 

Beginning to lose patience with this game, keep conceding goals from through balls.

Also, what should I do when I go behind? I have tried to be patient with my formation and it doesn't seem to work. Then I go more attacking and the game just passes by.

[crusadertsar]

@MRAFTCT Your results are really not that bad. And your goals conceded actually look less than average for a top team in real life. So you should put less pressure on yourself. It's not like you are at risk of getting sacked.

Over the years this series started to become a more and more realistic simulation of football world and not simply a "fun game" where you create a tactic like "Diablo" of old and expect to win everything. And it is meant to be hard from the start unless you are Liverpool or Real Madrid, ect. Winning anything in the first 5 years or so while all the other teams have most of their top players in their prime is a big achievement. You should just go with the flow and try to keep developing your tactic and your young players and not put too much pressure on yourself or it will just kill the game for you. Trust me it did FM20 for me. So this really comes as my honest advise. 

And look in real life when was the last time Chelsea won the Premier League? Or Man United, or Arsenal? And they are all world-class clubs. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by crusadertsar

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, crusadertsar said:

@MRAFTCT Your results are really not that bad. And your goals conceded actually look less than average for a top team in real life. So you should put less pressure on yourself. It's not like you are at risk of getting sacked

Couldn't agree more