breaking down sides that sit deep

[fungs4]

hi guys, what is usually the best way to approach matches where you know the opposition team is just going to sit deep and try to hit you on the counter. are you better of being more patient and trying to work around them, or trying to force things through with a high tempo, positive/attacking mentality etc.  

[CARRERA]

key is player movement: overlapping partnerships, central players going wide, wide players cutting inside, roam from position. 

You also need to look for counterbalancing your risks in and out of possession. 

e.g. if you look for shorter passes or slower tempo, which are lower risk playing styles you should consider also implementing some higher risk playing styles, like wider attack, higher tempo, pass into space, be more expressive, ... or a more risky mentality to increase general risk taken by your players. 

also it’s adviced to Win back the ball as quickly as possible because very low mentality teams will most likely just waste your time by passing the ball around their defensive line

if you post your tactics properbly sone1 can take a look over it

Edited January 24, 2021 by CARRERA

[Jaye]

5 hours ago, fungs4 said:

hi guys, what is usually the best way to approach matches where you know the opposition team is just going to sit deep and try to hit you on the counter. are you better of being more patient and trying to work around them, or trying to force things through with a high tempo, positive/attacking mentality etc.  

Both ways work. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. 

It firstly depends on your players. If you haven't got high levels of Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions, Off The Ball, and Passing, then slowing it down and working the opposition isn't going to be very effective. You might be better off brute forcing it, in that case.

Alternatively, you can try and draw the opposition out, and then play direct passes over them.

In most cases, you need width and a variety of off the ball movement to disrupt the opposition's shape. Also doesn't hurt to have a good set-piece routine set up as well.

[fungs4]

@CARRERA i have attached my tactic here, any thoughts or suggestions you have in mind? 

[fungs4]

3 hours ago, Jaye said:

Both ways work. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. 

It firstly depends on your players. If you haven't got high levels of Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions, Off The Ball, and Passing, then slowing it down and working the opposition isn't going to be very effective. You might be better off brute forcing it, in that case.

Alternatively, you can try and draw the opposition out, and then play direct passes over them.

In most cases, you need width and a variety of off the ball movement to disrupt the opposition's shape. Also doesn't hurt to have a good set-piece routine set up as well.

The attributes you've mentioned don't seem to be my strong suit...so I might be better off trying to brute force it I think. How would you suggest I do this? 

[CARRERA]

25 minutes ago, fungs4 said:

@CARRERA i have attached my tactic here, any thoughts or suggestions you have in mind? 

I would switch around CM and DLP to the other side and make the CM support and DLP defend, switch WB to fullback support.

make striker a CFs or DLFs and the AM attacking Duty or shadow striker. 

if your team has great vision, flair and off the ball movement add be more expressive, if not increase attacking width

Also add play out of defense and and GK distribute to CB 

remove counter and counterpress and increase defensive line to push up from the back.

get tactical & role familiarity via Training and see how it goes. If it’s not to your favour get back here and describe what’s going wrong 

[Smiza]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb CARRERA:

I would switch around CM and DLP to the other side and make the CM support and DLP defend, switch WB to fullback support.

make striker a CFs or DLFs and the AM attacking Duty or shadow striker.

But..... why?

[CARRERA]

14 minutes ago, Smiza said:

But..... why?

Yeah sorry, I just went for a quick reply without explaining much.

two holding players in CM on a 4231 is too less movement an switching around helps to cover for the attacking FB.

WB doesn’t provide enough cover if playing with an IWa and CMs, so Id rather make it a FBs.

ST and AM changes to have more players involved in attacking play and create natural overlaps in central attack. AF is getting too isolated if the other team is sitting deep

[Dotsworthy]

9 hours ago, fungs4 said:

@CARRERA i have attached my tactic here, any thoughts or suggestions you have in mind? 

Since your two wide players are cutting inside I would consider changing your FB to a WB and putting both full backs on attack duty and/or using overlap on one or both sides. This would put more pressure on the defence as they will have to deal with potentially six players in the final third.

Alternatively, What I like to do is have focus play on one side of the pitch and overlap on the side with the attacking wide player so that the fullback also bombs forward. It makes the opposition defence move away from the attacking wide player as your possession is focused on the opposite side leaving them open to a deadly cross field ball.

If you are facing a side parking the bus, considering moving the AM to ST, it's not the most sophisticated method but it works!

 

 

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

Your tactic looks okay in terms of roles and duties. The problem IMHO are instructions, primarily defensive ones (low compactness combined with aggressive defending and within a top-heavy formation at that). 

[fungs4]

@Experienced Defender what would happen if I have too many high risk in-possession instructions (be more expressive, play wider, pass into space coupled with positive/attacking mentality for example). would i essentially keep losing the ball, thus fail to score? 

[fungs4]

On 25/01/2021 at 06:17, Dotsworthy said:

Since your two wide players are cutting inside I would consider changing your FB to a WB and putting both full backs on attack duty and/or using overlap on one or both sides. This would put more pressure on the defence as they will have to deal with potentially six players in the final third.

Alternatively, What I like to do is have focus play on one side of the pitch and overlap on the side with the attacking wide player so that the fullback also bombs forward. It makes the opposition defence move away from the attacking wide player as your possession is focused on the opposite side leaving them open to a deadly cross field ball.

If you are facing a side parking the bus, considering moving the AM to ST, it's not the most sophisticated method but it works!

 

 

 

 

wouldn't using overlap just be overkill, since the WB role will naturally overlap the IW anyway? The focus play tip seems interesting, i'll give it a go!!

[Experienced Defender]

6 hours ago, fungs4 said:

@Experienced Defender what would happen if I have too many high risk in-possession instructions (be more expressive, play wider, pass into space coupled with positive/attacking mentality for example). would i essentially keep losing the ball, thus fail to score? 

Well, the instructions you mentioned here are obviously not possession-friendly. But that does not necessarily mean that you would constantly lose possession, because it also depends on your players' abilities. Because they might be good enough to avoid losing the ball (too) easily in spite of these instructions. 

Anyway, instructions need to be in harmony with both one another and your setup of roles and duties (i.e. your intended tactical style). In other words, make sure your tactic is not contradictory in any sense. 

[zyfon5]

Hopefully this guide can help

 

On 24/01/2021 at 11:22, fungs4 said:

hi guys, what is usually the best way to approach matches where you know the opposition team is just going to sit deep and try to hit you on the counter. are you better of being more patient and trying to work around them, or trying to force things through with a high tempo, positive/attacking mentality etc.  

 

[Dotsworthy]

8 hours ago, fungs4 said:

wouldn't using overlap just be overkill, since the WB role will naturally overlap the IW anyway? The focus play tip seems interesting, i'll give it a go!!

It depends on the teams ability to counter, and it's not completely necessary so I would suggest trying both support and attack and seeing how it goes . Overlap reduces the mentality of the IW and increases the mentality of the WB, although if the IW is on attack with a team mentality of positive of higher their individual mentality should stay at very attacking. having both on attack could allow those two players to overload a single full back, or the IW can pin the centre half on that side of the pitch giving more opportunity for your ST to find an opening. 

Focus play on one side and overlap on the other is from a good article I recommend here: https://dictatethegame.com/the-beauty-of-focus-play-creating-overloads-in-fm21/.  The idea is to overload one side of the pitch to open up space for a right-sided attacking player (such as your IW) to be open to a cross field ball. One thing I might suggest is try removing pass into space if it's not working. I've found this approach works better when you give your players time to get bodies to the left side of the pitch to create that overload and they might jump the gun too early otherwise.

Edited January 26, 2021 by Dotsworthy

[Sharkn20]

Get your Set Pieces routines up to scratch to open the can on those plays as you will have plenty opportunities. Also train "Set Pieces Delivery" during the week that you know that they are gonna park the bus against you.

I often win or start winning those games on deliveries.