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does playing cautious, defensive, counter, lower,... ever gets rewarded?


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I have the feeling that the way to go with any team against any oponent is "postive/pressing/higher"

It gives me good/overachieving results with almost any team.

But when I want to take a more realistic approach, when I'm a smaller team or playing against very good team away as a good team myself and try to apply what I've learned through reading a lot of tactic topics it seems I always do worse than the "postive/pressing/higher" way.

I'm talking about:

  • sitting a bit deeper,
  • taking a bit less risks,
  • playing more direct,
  • play with a DM instead of a CAM
  • change a few roles to support or defensive
  • don't push so much against teams that will easily pass around your press...

but when I do this, results seem worse or I lose by even larger margins than ...

It's not so rewarding that I try to apply logic when it seems (to me at least) that whatever I do, there only seems one way to go and you shouldn't think much about it, just play one of the more positive mentalities, play higher and press a lot...

Edited by DavyDepuydt1
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If you assume that a lower team mentality automatically means a defensive style of football or more defensive solidity overall, then you are on the wrong track. Because team mentalities are not about that.

If you post a screenshot of the tactic in question, I'll be able to explain in more detail where you are potentially making mistakes. 

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It depends on what you are setting up like. When setting up defensively you have to make sure you are not set up passively. And it is easy to set up passively. What I mean is that even the most defensive sides have clear plans with and without the ball. They do not just sit back and let teams come at them. Even teams who are parking the buss have a defensive organisation and clear ideas of how they will defend each zone of the pitch. So simply dropping back, having a few more players on a defend duty and some vague notions of being direct will be unlikely to succeed. As always, you need to have some idea of how you want to defend (same way you need to know how you want to attack and score). It is the same mistake as thinking that going to attacking mentality should automatically mean more goals. 

So can it be successful? Absolutely. I use similar things to what you describe as my default "we probably can't dominate this team and they are dangerous" tactic. 

So in general I sit deeper than I normally would (both lines are deeper by one notch). I do not use the counter press, but let my front 3 close people down and harry them while the rest of the team drops back. This is to try to disrupt teams passing out from the back, and give everyone else time to get back to their position. Once in their position we hopefully have most central passing lanes blocked and they have to go wide.

Generally I will also reduce the mentality of at least one of my fullbacks. Usually a FB(S) to FB(D) so that when we attack we keep a back three, and with a shielding DM (I use a DMC rather than a AMC always) in front it is harder to launch quick counter attacks against me. This does take a little away from my attacking play, as it means by winger on that side will be 1v1 more often, and there is much less chance to create an overload on that side of the pitch. 

I do not really make large modifications to my approach play and attacking though. I do not see the need in my current save since my players can play. However I will remove things like play out of defence, because that is a huge risk and I want to get the ball away from my goal. If I have pacy players then I will be more direct and use counter. I also set up set pieces to make sure I have fast players who will automatically trigger a counter attack should the ball be cleared and they win it. 

So yeah, everything you say is possible. You just need to have a plan of what you want players to do when you defend, and set up. And make sure your attacking play is a little more complex than "hit it forward and hope we can counter". 

 

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I've had plenty of success in FM20 and FM21 with lower to mid-table teams and varying my approaches.

Usually something like Balanced, Standard D-Line and Higher LoE for teams I have a chance against. Against the big boys in the league, it's usually slightly more conservative roles, Cautious, lower D-line, standard LoE, Re-group + counter. Formation will change depending on who I manage as I have to assess the squad and make sure I use them as best as I can.

As the post above says, I try to be careful not to be too passive. Just the Cautious Mentality already lowers the risk, D-line, pressing etc anyway, so I don't have to be too drastic with the other TIs and roles/duties. My initial tactic is usually decent, but may need a role or duty changed here or there. It just depends on what I find once I put it into action.

Something that rarely gets attention (IMO) is the selection of players. In the bigger matches, using the more cautious tactic, I would make sure that I have bigger and generally more defensive players in the team. That way I can bully the opposing team and make it hard for them in my half of the pitch. So out goes my short fullbacks and sort of like Stoke did once upon a time, I'd bring in bigger defenders with tackling, positioning, strength and balance to make my defence more solid. Up front, I would go for the generally fast players who are good at finding space. That's useful if I want to counter quickly. 

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Instead of setting up some instructions from the start, you can just select for example the Cautious mentality - which I in fact believe can be a very nice one, because your players are not going to take not too many risks but they will take some, different for example from Defensive of even lower, with are more "risk avoid at any times".

After choosing the mentality, you can set up a formation based on the team you have, trying to balance the roles and duties between the formation itself - so it can be balanced and good enough - and what your players can do. Let´s say, maybe tell a Poacher to play as a Deep Lying Foward may be harder than as an Advanced Foward. 

Then you play some matches. Maybe some friendlies, maybe some official ones. Take some notes and see what is happening on the field. Does your team looks too passive? What is happening when your players attack - do they need more speed? Are they wasting passes or kicking from nowhere to nowhere? How is your defence behaving? How the opponents are scoring or trying to score?

Then you can see what instructions you may need, besides any changes on roles/duties, to find a balance between a rock solid defence and good attacking movements. This method may take a little bit more time, but the advantage is you are not trying to force your team to play a specific style, you are adapting them to be more effective according to what you see on the field. 

Another good tip for lower mentalities: usually they give less creative freedom/lower mentality for your players, to help reducing the risks. So when you use them, it may be a good idea to give one player in the team a very free and creative role (like a Regista, Trequartista, Roaming Playmaker and others). This way you give a chance for the magic to happen and avoid being too bureaucratic. 

I imagine which instructions can make your team more aggressive with Cautious, but I won´t give any suggestions so the field can tell you better than me. And also because I don´t believe in Tactical Determinisms ;) 

Just to remember, when you play at Cautious, sometimes matches will end in a 0-0 and you will not score. For example, I am ok with this, because I love to play LLM and my teams are usually never the favorite ones until very late on the game - and even then we have UCL, so they will probably always be the underdog. But you have to be comfortable with it, too.

You can do this not just with Cautious, but with any mentalities. But of course, if you use higher risk ones, like Positive or Attacking, you will probably have to do the opposite - set up instructions/roles/duties to balance the higher risk approach that they usually have, instead of using instructions/roles/duties to make your team not too passive. A Poacher for example will behave very differently on Cautious than he would on Positive, so you have to take this into account. 

It´s another way of thinking, maybe it can help you developing your tactic and finding a nice way for your team to play.

Edited by Tsuru
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