[FM21] A Complete Guide to Quick Transitions and Counter Attacking Football

[engamohd]

ORIGINALLY POSTED ON MY BLOG

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Welcome to the second part of this series of articles aimed at simplifying and explaining the process of creating Football Manager tactics, using the latest instalment of the hit series, Football Manager 2021.

This second article will focus on creating a solid counter attacking style in the tactic creator.

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Before getting our hands dirty, I'd like to make a distinction between playing on the counter, and quick transitions/counter attacking.

Playing on the counter generally means staying solid and safe until an opening appears that the team could exploit. If no opening appears, the team is happy to play for a draw. Speaking in the terms mentioned in the mentality article, the team employs a less risky defensive and offensive styles. These are negative styles that are commonly used by massive underdogs.

On the other hand, counter attacking (or quick transitions as I call it) is what most people look for. This style is basically drawing the opponent forward, and hitting after winning back the ball at every opportunity as they lose the ball deep in your territory. This means a balanced/aggressive defensive style, combined with an aggressive/very aggressive offensive style.

With this in mind, lets discuss the basics of a counter attacking system.

1. Any counter attacking system must employ a medium to deep defensive block, in order to force the opponents to over-commit forward and stretch themselves horizontally in a bid to break down the team, leaving spaces behind and between them. This calls for brave, hardworking, mentally sharp, and strong defenders that can tackle, dominate aerially and have the mental capacity to sustain pressure and not buckle under long periods of pressure.

2. The defensive block should not be passive and standoffish. Remember, we are not playing on the counter, we are creating chances by winning the ball deep and aggressively counter attacking while the opponent's defensive structure is disorganized.

3. The ball should be played vertically forwards as soon as it is won back. This is meant to put pressure on the opposition the moment they lost the ball.

4. The further most player (usually the striker - offensive pivot) should look to support the team by holding the ball and bringing the on-rushing support into play. Therefore, he should be a creator rather than a goal scorer looking to be played in by others.

5. No less than 1 and no more than 2 ball carriers. Following the first pass, we need quick, very technical players that carry the ball forward and dictate the play as the team breaks forward. Less than 1 ball carrier will see us be one-dimensional and passive, while more than 2 would break the supporting cast, as many players will look to make things happen, rather than supporting play.

Example

Here is an example of Forest's 1-1 draw with Real Madrid in the Champions League from my Forest save.

Eder tries to cross the ball in the 91st minute and is closed down by Cantwell (one of our ball carriers).

Notice how Berge (our second ball carrier) and Brooks (our offensive pivot) are taking defensive yet dangerous positions, ready to pounce on any opportunity to break. Also notice how deep are our block is.

Eder's cross is intercepted by Emi Buendia (one of the supporting players, along with Tonali), and is played towards Brooks, who occupies a massive space along with Berge.

The importance of the offensive pivot is evident here. Brooks, who is very technically gifted and is quite pacey, holds the ball, allowing Berge, Emi, Cantwell and Tonali break forward in the required vertical movement, causing havoc to the retreating Real defenders. Any pass by Brooks towards any of these arrows will develop into a big opportunity for us. If he was a Poacher style forward, he'd mainly dribble his way trying to create a chance for himself.

Brooks passes to Berge, who now has several options. He decides to dribble his way through the two defenders. This last shot accentuates the need of pace and flair in the breaking players. Without pace and directness, this move will fail miserably, keeping us under massive pressure.

As he dribbles, Ake (RCB) tackles him, but Tonali sends a quick lovely through ball to Berge, who shoots into the side netting instead.

Player Profiles and Attributes

We already classified the type of players required to quickly and regularly pull off a quick transitional break. These players should be included in any such style, regardless of the formation. Also, Concentration, Determination, Composure, Work Rate, Decisions, Aggression, Bravery and Tackling should be as high as possible:

1. Goalkeeper - Shot stopper.

   The GK will have to face many shots from in and around the box, so he needs to be a top shot-stopper. Sweeper keeper behaviour is not required since the deep block will not allow many balls behind the defensive line. Optional: Distributor.

   Example: Jan Oblak

2. Central Defenders - Physical and Intelligent.

   The CBs should be the archetypical strong, tall, intelligent blokes. They need the mental capacity to maintain their concentration during long pressure periods. They are not required to be playmakers, but that won't hurt as a bonus. Optional: Pacey and Passers.

   Example: van Dijk, Koulibaly

3. Full Backs - Defence First.

   Fullbacks are by definition all rounders. However, in this style, they are defence first, and should have high ratings in marking, positioning, anticipation, positioning and tackling.

   Example: Wan Bissaka and Andy Robertson

4. Ball Carriers - Technical, Pacey, and Press Resistant

   These are the heart of our team, they are required to hold the ball against the first wave of opposition press and dribble the ball through them, and should have the ability to play a killer pass.

   Example: Coutinho, Bruno Fernandes, Sadio Mane, and Hueng-Min Son

5. Midfielders - Hardworking, Hard Tacklers.

   The midfielders should (depending on the formation) primarily be hardworking all rounders that should consistently break up oppositions play.

   Example: Kante, Henderson and Fabinho

6. Central Strikers - Strong and Quick.

   Our offensive pivots are ideally Targetmen that can play football. They are required to hold the ball, lay it off to supporting midfielders and have excellent off the ball movement to open space during the break.

   Example: Romelu Lukaku, Harry Kane

Putting It All Together

Selecting a Formation

I believe that any style could be achieved using any formation. However, some formations are better than others to implement a particular style. For this particular style, it is better to pack the midfield and defensive positions in a bottom heavy formation. Therefore, 4-4-2, 4-4-1-1, 3-5-2, 4-5-1 and 4-1-4-1 are all excellent formations for this style.

I personally favour the 4-4-1-1 formation which is probably the most flexible formation in football, and will use it for this article. However, the concepts discussed here could be easily applied to any formation.

Mentality

As discussed earlier, we need an aggressive offensive and defensive play styles. These are best implemented by the Positive mentality.

Team Instructions

The unwanted behaviours set by the Positive mentality are:

1. High Defensive Block

2. Risky Shooting

3. Aggressive Pressing Further Up the Pitch

These behaviours are negated by, and the style is reinforced by, the following TIs

1. Lower LOE

2. Play out of Defence (style reinforcing)

3. More Urgent Pressing (style reinforcing)

4. Regroup (decrease defensive aggression off the ball which are increased by the urgent pressing and Positive mentality)

5. Counter (style reinforcing)

6. (Pass into space) Optional

I used to play on a deep defensive line, but I found that this makes us un-necessarily deep, allowing us to be passive in defence and blunt in attack, as we need to cover even more space while breaking.

Player Roles

In line with the required player types outlined above, the following roles are selected in a 4-4-1-1

1. Goalkeeper - SK-D; I like my goalkeepers to exploit any possible counter attacking chances

2. 2 x Central Defenders - 2 x CB-D; nothing fancy, strong, intelligent and as tall as possible

3. 2 x Full Backs - 2 x FB-S; once again, simple defence first fullbacks that look to support the midfield without compromising their defensive positions. Sometimes, I may go with a WB-S in the LB position to offer more penetration and support depending on the circumstance

4. 2 x Ball Carriers - The ball carriers ideally have an attack duty, the dribble more PI, and with no roaming to retain our defensive structure. I opted for a AP-A in the AM position, and an IW-A in the LM position. Both of these players should be the best dribblers and the most creative in the team.

5. 2 x Midfielders - My midfield duo will not need to carry any chance creation responsibility. They need to have destroying and supporting duties. I opt for a BWM-D and CM-S. I went with a BWM since I need our best tackler to be relentless in his pursuit of the ball, while the CM-S does a bit of everything. The CM-S role will be highly dependent on the player playing in this role.

6. 1 x Offensive Pivot (Striker) - I use a DLF-S for most one striker counter attacking teams. The Deep Lying Forward is basically a Target Man that can play football, and is much more dynamic than the more primitive TM. I avoid F9 and CF-S roles since I don't want any sort of creative play from them, I rather want them to knit the attacking transitions.

This is how my counter attacking tactic currently looks.

I'd like to show another great example from our recent 2-0 victory at Benfica, demonstrating one very nice move:

Raphinha has no space to dribble or pass, and so opts for a hopeful shot which is block by our BWM, Cook. Notice our deep positioning, and how our ball carriers are ready to break forward.

Cook's shot falls to Cantwell, who plays it quickly to our supporting mid, Tonali:

Tonali has some options already, he can dribble into space, hold the ball or pass to Marcos Leonardo, which is what he did.

Marcos does what he does best. He holds the ball, allowing our supporting cast to get forward, breaking in my favoured parallel vertical runs, giving Marcos lots of options. Emi, our WM, is in acres in space on the far side, and so is Brooks. However, Marcos played the ball into Brook's feet rather than space causing this move to fail gradually.

This move has given me some thoughts of whether I should add a Pass into Space TI or not, and it is certainly a matter for thought. Nonetheless, it is what I look for each game, and in spite of the poor pass by Marcos, it is a very well executed break that left the opposition helpless to stop us.

This marks the end of this article. Hopefully, I managed to clarify the basic concepts of counter attacking, and how to create a solid counter attacking tactic.

Please share with us your counter attacking creations

Until next time,

Happy FM’ing.

Edited October 24, 2022 by engamohd

[HowzatFM]

Another really good thread, top work! 👏

Currently I am trying replicate Aston Villa’s tactics this season that I believe reflects a 4-4-1-1. This has provided some excellent ideas that I will try implement in my current save! Thank you

Edited January 18, 2021 by benhoward12

[engamohd]

2 minutes ago, benhoward12 said:

Another really good thread, top work! 👏

Currently I am trying replicant Aston Villa’s tactics this season that I believe reflects a 4-4-1-1. This has provided some excellent ideas that I will try implement in my current save! Thank you

Cheers

Villa has a really solid squad that can easily fit and play well in a 4-4-1-1. Grealish, Watkins, Ghazi, and Trezeguet should make a very nice counter attacking team!

Would love to see how you fare.

[TehGoatLord]

Oooh will love to try this on my United save. I have the pace to burn and the ball carriers to do it. 

[carloshcorbalan]

please ..... tactical link to download ...

[[SFW]Medic Tim]

Good work

[Wavelberry]

I have many DMs in my team so what you would say to the tweaks

DM (BWM) SV(S)

and the AM being a second striker?

[CJ_Randell]

Is it just myself that none of the images are working for? 

Very good read though, will certainly help with creating something that isn't just the usual high pressing, attacking possession style that so far has been my only way of being successful. 

[howard moon]

Great stuff.

Been trying to implement something similar on FM17, but have used a asymmetric 4-4-1-1 with the AM and CF offset (the CF on the side of the WMa, the AM on the side of the Ws).

You should be careful playing like this though. You’ll get lots of people saying that you’re a “PE teacher” and need to be a better coach that focuses on “patterns of play” 

[Vizzini]

Why the play out of defence if you want to play counter-attacking? Would that not slow the transitions down? As you said in an earlier post, defenders on high mentality will still pass it out from the back, it is on lower mentalities they tend to hoof it without that instruction.

[Tsuru]

Another very good and interesting topic.

I came back to FM 17 after being fired at FM Touch 20, but later this year I will probably migrate to FM 21 - full version - so I can test these instructions. 

In 17 I play Counter with a Poacher upfront and a N10 behind him in a 4-4-1-1 and it also work wonders, but I did on purpose to make it more similar to a "Fluid" instead of a "Direct" style.

Do you think in the style you presented the flanks could also work with a Winger on Support instead of the Inverted Winger on Attack? Maybe on this option one of the FB S could be replaced by a FB AT behind the WM S, and the most defensive midfielder could move to the flank where the FB AT operates. Then the CM S would be probably replaced by a BBM S to be one of the team´s ball carriers.

I prefer setting up the flanks like this, I think it give me more options and I also don´t like this kind of players moving to the middle on this style, but I would like to hear your opinion.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Tsuru

[CJ_Randell]

54 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Why the play out of defence if you want to play counter-attacking? Would that not slow the transitions down? As you said in an earlier post, defenders on high mentality will still pass it out from the back, it is on lower mentalities they tend to hoof it without that instruction.

Playing out of defence would bring your players deeper to assist with build up play. 

This in turn will draw the opposition out, leaving space to attack. 

[Tsuru]

4 minutos atrás, CJ_Randell disse:

Playing out of defence would bring your players deeper to assist with build up play. 

This in turn will draw the opposition out, leaving space to attack. 

I have never thought about Play out Of Defence this way, very interesting point of view.

[CJ_Randell]

1 minute ago, Tsuru said:

I have never thought about Play out Of Defence this way, very interesting point of view.

Bare in mind the mentality set to positive will also instruct players to play slightly more direct passing at a slightly higher tempo. 

[Plugpin]

Great post @engamohd How does it fare against teams who park the bus? Do they still fall into the trap or do you need to apply this tactic against better teams who will push for a goal?

I bet you get some good 'edge of your seat gameplay' either way. I would love to see some end of season stats with this. Particularly how it managed in Europe. 

[engamohd]

17 hours ago, carloshcorbalan said:

please ..... tactical link to download ...

The tactic is exactly as posted in the OP!

14 hours ago, [SFW]Medic Tim said:

Good work

Thank you!

 

8 hours ago, Wavelberry said:

I have many DMs in my team so what you would say to the tweaks

DM (BWM) SV(S)

and the AM being a second striker?

You mean 4222 DM? I don't like leaving the AM spot exposed, especially that the midfielders are more deep. I'd go either for a 442 or a 4411 2DM.

You also need to think about the ball carriers.

[engamohd]

8 hours ago, CJ_Randell said:

Is it just myself that none of the images are working for? 

Very good read though, will certainly help with creating something that isn't just the usual high pressing, attacking possession style that so far has been my only way of being successful. 

It is working well for me. I post the images on imgur, maybe you are having an issue with it?

Thank you! I hope you have some success with this style

6 hours ago, howard moon said:

Great stuff.

Been trying to implement something similar on FM17, but have used a asymmetric 4-4-1-1 with the AM and CF offset (the CF on the side of the WMa, the AM on the side of the Ws).

You should be careful playing like this though. You’ll get lots of people saying that you’re a “PE teacher” and need to be a better coach that focuses on “patterns of play” 

Cheers! This style was much easier on FM17, I remember implementing a similar 4-1-3-2 narrow on it, which was massively successfull.

*Looks at his trophy cabinet* I am happy that way 

 

Who said this about Mourinho though?!

Edited January 19, 2021 by engamohd

[engamohd]

4 hours ago, Vizzini said:

Why the play out of defence if you want to play counter-attacking? Would that not slow the transitions down? As you said in an earlier post, defenders on high mentality will still pass it out from the back, it is on lower mentalities they tend to hoof it without that instruction.

Good question.

I need my team to counter fluidly, rather than hoof it forward, especially that my further most player is playing deep. I use the PoD TI to make sure that we get the ball to the ball carriers and not lose the ball aimlessly, which will also keep us under extended pressure.

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by engamohd

[engamohd]

4 hours ago, Tsuru said:

Another very good and interesting topic.

I came back to FM 17 after being fired at FM Touch 20, but later this year I will probably migrate to FM 21 - full version - so I can test these instructions. 

In 17 I play Counter with a Poacher upfront and a N10 behind him in a 4-4-1-1 and it also work wonders, but I did on purpose to make it more similar to a "Fluid" instead of a "Direct" style.

Do you think in the style you presented the flanks could also work with a Winger on Support instead of the Inverted Winger on Attack? Maybe on this option one of the FB S could be replaced by a FB AT behind the WM S, and the most defensive midfielder could move to the flank where the FB AT operates. Then the CM S would be probably replaced by a BBM S to be one of the team´s ball carriers.

I prefer setting up the flanks like this, I think it give me more options and I also don´t like this kind of players moving to the middle on this style, but I would like to hear your opinion.

This is certainly a nice spin off, that I can see working, especially against teams with advanced wingers (4231s 433s etc). However, I'd go like this as a start:

PF-S/DLF-S

AM-A

W-A - BWM-D - RPM-S - WM-S

FB-A - CD-D - CD-D - FB-S

SK-D

That way, your carriers are the Winger and the RPM, supported by the AM and WM. Of course, the DLF/PF is the same offensive pivot.

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, Plugpin said:

Great post @engamohd How does it fare against teams who park the bus? Do they still fall into the trap or do you need to apply this tactic against better teams who will push for a goal?

I bet you get some good 'edge of your seat gameplay' either way. I would love to see some end of season stats with this. Particularly how it managed in Europe. 

Thank you!

We tend to be solid against bus parkers, and not completely blowing them.

In these games, I may go Attacking, and/or remove the Regroup shout, to add more control. The WBiB shout helps a lot too in these situations.

You are correct in that this style is much better against attacking teams though, especially in Europe. Well deffo share end of season results.

[camoulton21]

Your tactic gives me Mourinho Spurs vibes. Hojberg as the midfield anchor/ball-winner, Son and Ndombele as the ball carriers and Kane as the offensive pivot. I'm excited for what is to come in this tactics series. Any chance of a preview? I've always felt that the tactics creator is needlessly complex and counter-intuitive but your clear and considered decisions suggest that you are someone that understands how to transfer their ideas to the game easily

Edited January 19, 2021 by camoulton21

[retrodude09]

I've been thinking of starting with either Leicester or Newcastle & I think this could be perfect for both of them. Maybe a couple of tweaks to roles to suit the players but the style itself should lend itself well to both teams. 

Hopefully as I get better & my reputation improves, I could tweak the style a little but even then, it should invite those teams that want to "park the bus" out a little more & create space.

[CJ_Randell]

1 minute ago, retrodude09 said:

I've been thinking of starting with either Leicester or Newcastle & I think this could be perfect for both of them. Maybe a couple of tweaks to roles to suit the players but the style itself should lend itself well to both teams. 

Hopefully as I get better & my reputation improves, I could tweak the style a little but even then, it should invite those teams that want to "park the bus" out a little more & create space.

My initial thought was Newcastle, ASM as the IW, Almiron as AP and Wilson DLF.
Could be lethal.

[howard moon]

1 hour ago, engamohd said:

Cheers! This style was much easier on FM17, I remember implementing a similar 4-1-3-2 narrow on it, which was massively successfull.

*Looks at his trophy cabinet* I am happy that way 

 

How said this about Mourinho though?!

It's what people have called Solskjaer. He was my first thought when I was reading your post.

[retrodude09]

45 minutes ago, CJ_Randell said:

My initial thought was Newcastle, ASM as the IW, Almiron as AP and Wilson DLF.
Could be lethal.

Yeah I think Newcastle could be good. 

Leicester you would have Barnes, Madison & Vardy plus the likes of Tielemans & Ndidi 

[RCCook]

Good article. How would you set up this tactic in a 4-1-4-1 DM wide formation? 

[Tsuru]

2 horas atrás, engamohd disse:

This is certainly a nice spin off, that I can see working, especially against teams with advanced wingers (4231s 433s etc). However, I'd go like this as a start:

PF-S/DLF-S

AM-A

W-A - BWM-D - RPM-S - WM-S

FB-A - CD-D - CD-D - FB-S

SK-D

That way, your carriers are the Winger and the RPM, supported by the AM and WM. Of course, the DLF/PF is the same offensive pivot.

Very interesting. So would you position the FB-A and the W-A on the same side? I would always become afraid that would expose my flank too much, but maybe the other side on Support could balance this. It's worth a try, thank you!

Edited January 19, 2021 by Tsuru

[engamohd]

2 hours ago, camoulton21 said:

Your tactic gives me Mourinho Spurs vibes. Hojberg as the midfield anchor/ball-winner, Son and Ndombele as the ball carriers and Kane as the offensive pivot. I'm excited for what is to come in this tactics series. Any chance of a preview? I've always felt that the tactics creator is needlessly complex and counter-intuitive but your clear and considered decisions suggest that you are someone that understands how to transfer their ideas to the game easily

Thank you, I appreciate your kind words! I believe that thinking in a structured, educated way is the best way to translate your ideas into anything 

Mourinho's Spurs is definitely the best team playing like this in real life, along with Atletico Madrid. My team is based loosely on these two teams.


Preview: I am not fully settled on the next article, but I am thinking about the player roles, any ideas?

[engamohd]

38 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Very interesting. So would you position the FB-A and the W-A on the same side? I would always become afraid that would expose my flank too much, but maybe the other side on Support could balance this. It's worth a try, thank you!

If you find yourself exposed then a WB-S is a good option. I don't want a conservative FB-S behind a W-A to offer the winger some support, especially that the defensive mid is next to him, so the winger deffo lacks support.

[engamohd]

52 minutes ago, RCCook said:

Good article. How would you set up this tactic in a 4-1-4-1 DM wide formation? 

If I want to field a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide formation, then deffo I'd play in the same way like the 4-4-1-1, I don't think it would be any different, besides perhaps an IF-S instead of the WM-S. 

 

Deeper winger formations work better in this particular style though.

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, howard moon said:

It's what people have called Solskjaer. He was my first thought when I was reading your post.

Ole is making a really good counter attacking team, to be completely honest (not as good as us though :P)

United played a very nice game against us on Sunday.

[engamohd]

2 hours ago, retrodude09 said:

I've been thinking of starting with either Leicester or Newcastle & I think this could be perfect for both of them. Maybe a couple of tweaks to roles to suit the players but the style itself should lend itself well to both teams. 

Hopefully as I get better & my reputation improves, I could tweak the style a little but even then, it should invite those teams that want to "park the bus" out a little more & create space.

With a bit of aggression, you can easily beat the bus parkers. I find going on Attacking is enough to get a goal or two, and then park the bus myself 

[Jack722]

I'm confused about how much of an effect the 'in possession' instructions have on your ability to counter.

Can you play good counter attacking football despite instructions such as 'low tempo' and 'play out of defence' as long as the counter instruction is ticked? Or would increasing the tempo and adding instructions like 'pass into space' increase the quality and frequency of counters?

[Bot Makel]

Great post as always. The only doubt is about the BWMde. Aren't you likely to leave the position too often in a very delicate role?

Edited January 19, 2021 by Bot Makel

[Tsuru]

Agora, Bot Makel disse:

 

Great post as always. The only doubt is about the BWMde. Aren't you likely to leave the position too often in a very delicate role?

This is a question I ask myself too, but I think a basic CM D might work here as well.

[Bot Makel]

3 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

I'm confused about how much of an effect the 'in possession' instructions have on your ability to counter.

Can you play good counter attacking football despite instructions such as 'low tempo' and 'play out of defence' as long as the counter instruction is ticked? Or would increasing the tempo and adding instructions like 'pass into space' increase the quality and frequency of counters?

Low tempo?? In positve mentality there is preset high time.

[Bot Makel]

2 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

This is a question I ask myself too, but I think a basic CM D might work here as well.

Absolutely, mine was a question about what he saw on the pitch precisely because I avoid using that role to have a more disciplined one. Instead I still used a BWMsu to maybe cover a WBsu

Edited January 19, 2021 by Bot Makel

[engamohd]

7 minutes ago, Jack722 said:

I'm confused about how much of an effect the 'in possession' instructions have on your ability to counter.

Can you play good counter attacking football despite instructions such as 'low tempo' and 'play out of defence' as long as the counter instruction is ticked? Or would increasing the tempo and adding instructions like 'pass into space' increase the quality and frequency of counters?

The in possession instructions affect how you use the ball. Generally (out side counter attacks) I need to hold the ball and not hoof it long, hence these instructions. Also, I use a Positive mentality that sets the tempo higher by default.

Counters are initiated by drawing the opposition deep, and when the team is on the counter in the ME, the mentality is maxed for the players involved.

The positive mentality also makes the team take more risks and therefore exploit any openings more often. However, the TIs will dictate how we create using the ball when there is no counter. I basically tell them (don't hoof it forward).

I hope it is clearer now.

[engamohd]

13 minutes ago, Bot Makel said:

 

Great post as always. The only doubt is about the BWMde. Aren't you likely to leave the position too often in a very delicate role?

 

9 minutes ago, Bot Makel said:

 

Absolutely, mine was a question about what he saw on the pitch precisely because I avoid using that role to have a more disciplined one. Instead I still used a BWMsu to maybe cover a WBsu

Absolutely, a CM-D can work well here. My thought process was that I am using (Urgent Pressing) rather than Much More Urgent and we are taking a risk by being deep, so I want my destroyer (who is ideally someone like Kante) to relentlessly seek the ball and press much more than the rest of the team, hence the BWM role. If I want to be more conservative, I'd go with a CM-D or a DLP-D.

Edited January 19, 2021 by engamohd

[Jack722]

4 minutes ago, engamohd said:

The in possession instructions affect how you use the ball. Generally (out side counter attacks) I need to hold the ball and not hoof it long, hence these instructions. Also, I use a Positive mentality that sets the tempo higher by default.

Counters are initiated by drawing the opposition deep, and when the team is on the counter in the ME, the mentality is maxed for the players involved.

The positive mentality also makes the team take more risks and therefore exploit any openings more often. However, the TIs will dictate how we create using the ball when there is no counter. I basically tell them (don't hoof it forward).

I hope it is clearer now.

Yes that's what I thought thanks.

So you don't have to worry about POD as it won't slow down transitions when a counter is on @Vizzini

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Jack722

[RCCook]

26 minutes ago, engamohd said:

If I want to field a 4-1-4-1 DM Wide formation, then deffo I'd play in the same way like the 4-4-1-1, I don't think it would be any different, besides perhaps an IF-S instead of the WM-S. 

 

Deeper winger formations work better in this particular style though.

So would you use a BWM-D in the DM position, and an AP-A and CM-S in the central midfield? 

[engamohd]

1 minute ago, RCCook said:

So would you use a BWM-D in the DM position, and an AP-A and CM-S in the central midfield? 

Precisely, yes.

[Bot Makel]

4 minutes ago, engamohd said:

Absolutely, a CM-D can work well here. My thought process was that I am using (Urgent Pressing) rather than Much More Urgent and we are taking a risk by being deep, so I want my destroyer (who is ideally someone like Kante) to relentlessly seek the ball and press much more than the rest of the team, hence the BWM role. If I want to be more conservative, I'd go with a CM-D or a DLP-D.

In fact, I thought about the fact that the more intense generalized pressing could still affect a classic role.

[engamohd]

1 minute ago, Bot Makel said:

In fact, I thought about the fact that the more intense generalized pressing could still affect a classic role.

Of course it will, I just want that guy alone to go to the extreme possible pressing, while being covered by the rest of the team. I didn't have issues with that -so far- unless he fails a tackle or gets dribbled past.

 

[RCCook]

6 hours ago, engamohd said:

Precisely, yes.

I gave that a run in the last 3 matches with my Wolfsburg save, and got 2 wins and a draw. Gonna work on finding a better AP in the upcoming transfer window, but overall, very promising stuff.

Really liked how the striker plays, as I have one that's very well-suited towards ball retention (he's a natural TM) and I'd been trying to create a tactic like this, where he holds up the ball and lays it off to the runners.

Definitely looking forward to more of your articles!

 

[engamohd]

2 hours ago, RCCook said:

I gave that a run in the last 3 matches with my Wolfsburg save, and got 2 wins and a draw. Gonna work on finding a better AP in the upcoming transfer window, but overall, very promising stuff.

Really liked how the striker plays, as I have one that's very well-suited towards ball retention (he's a natural TM) and I'd been trying to create a tactic like this, where he holds up the ball and lays it off to the runners.

Definitely looking forward to more of your articles!

 

Thank you! Glad you managed to get it working 

[Guest]

This is excellent stuff, really brilliant OP

[Tibalg]

Very interesting topic ! It confirmed a lot of things I was not sure about.

In your fist post, you talked about the choice of formation. What about 4-4-2 ?

I was wondering how to integrate the second striker in that system. The first one is obviously a TM/DLF in Support, the offensive pivot. But should we considered the other one as a ball carrier ? Or it is just a finisher (P, AF), and then we need to have one of two MC with a more runner role (BBM or RPM, which could be considered as one is this particular style) ?

 

Quote

23 hours ago, Wavelberry said:

I have many DMs in my team so what you would say to the tweaks

DM (BWM) SV(S)

and the AM being a second striker?

 

And my question applies also to 4-4-2 with 2 DM (or 4-2-2-2 as FM calls it).

A simple DM(s) and a SV(s) works fine, but you should think to have a higher Defensive line instead of lower LOE

Edited January 20, 2021 by Tibalg

[engamohd]

4 hours ago, Crazy_Ivan said:

This is excellent stuff, really brilliant OP

Cheers, thank you!

3 hours ago, Tibalg said:

Very interesting topic ! It confirmed a lot of things I was not sure about.

In your fist post, you talked about the choice of formation. What about 4-4-2 ?

I was wondering how to integrate the second striker in that system. The first one is obviously a TM/DLF in Support, the offensive pivot. But should we considered the other one as a ball carrier ? Or it is just a finisher (P, AF), and then we need to have one of two MC with a more runner role (RPM or BBM) ?

 

And my question applies also to 4-4-2 with 2 DM (or 4-2-2-2 as FM calls it).

A simple DM(s) and a SV(s) works fine, but you should think to have a higher Defensive line instead of lower LOE

Maybe I'd drop the lower LOE since we are naturally low, but this will require watching the games and taking notes

[engamohd]

I created a backup 4-5-1 formation with these same principles, instead of a deeper 4-1-4-1 and it has been immense: