4141,great results,no possession

[axehan1]

I've settled on the 4141 formation as I just didn't feel defensively stable enough using 433(1 DM).

The results have been phenomenal but the possession stats are pretty poor ranging from just over 40% to at most 55%

Here is a typical victory, 4-0 home win over Liverpool

42% of the ball but we absolutely dominated the game.

As you can see they had most of the ball in there half.

I'm almost there in terms of how we're playing but i want to control the ball a bit more without losing our goal threat, so keeping our 4141 shape what can i change to up the possession stats

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HowzatFM]

Not really sure why you would want to change your tactics! You will run the risk of results not being as good! 
 

Your in possession instructions currently don’t favour a possession based football, so if you really wanted to have more possession that’s where I would start, such as a lower tempo and shorter passing

Edited January 15, 2021 by benhoward12

[CARRERA]

Take more risks out of possession. Winning the ball back quicker will increase your time in possession without impacting your great offensive work. 
 

i would start adding wider defending since you are protected centrally well by your DM + DLP and increase pressing intensity by 1 notch. 

Don’t try tho pressing the whole pitch with a higher line of engagement as your formation (relatively bottom heavy) doesn’t really favour that style of play 

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

6 hours ago, CARRERA said:

increase your time in possession

just fyi possession is not a measure of time, it’s about the number of passes. 

[CARRERA]

36 minutes ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

just fyi possession is not a measure of time, it’s about the number of passes. 

doubt that, at least in fm possession is calculated differently from real life. but anyway, more time = more passes

 

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

8 hours ago, CARRERA said:

doubt that

Look into Opta’s method for determining possession, you’ll find that they have an interesting and slightly controversial interpretation of it.

But it looks like you’re correct about the old school way FM calculates possession.

Regardless, time on the ball is not the same as getting something done with the ball, so returning to OP’s point of wanting more possession it will likely come at the cost of effectivity.

Clearly OP is giving up time on the ball in favor of creating scoring chances, so if the goal is to slow things down and keep hold of the ball more, maybe “hold shape” will help. Based on what the other poster is saying about possession being based on time, would wasting time frequently increase the number even if artificially? 

[kingjericho]

FM calculates possession like a chess clock. It translates the amount of time the ball is yours into %

Regarding OP, why do you want more person if the results are good? Plus it's not unusual for that tactic to have lower possession since on a positive mentality the players are encouraged to risk more than usual. Add to that More Expressive TI and players will risk more (through balls, long shots, 1v1). If you play a lower mentality the players will choose a safer option more often, therefore increasing possession %

Edited January 16, 2021 by kingjericho

[Garrlor]

Two simple fixes would be to remove be more expressive and to drop the passing length slightly. This should help you keep hold of the ball more and you should always have passing options with the roles you have picked. If one of your DC have the stats for it, you could always change them to a BPD which would help a little with ball retention. Finally you could move the DLP(Su) to the DM strata as a DLP(D), which would mean that he would always have passing options both in front of him and behind. Consider all of these as levers that you can use potentially to increase possession. If you start to average around 55% and you are still getting good chances, you will probably have nailed it for what you are looking for. Remember that 55% possession means you have the ball 10% more than your opponent, which translates to around 9 minutes more to hurt them in a game - key if they are not able to break you down when you defend and the possession they have is all around the backline or DM.

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Garrlor
Moved from phone to PC

[themadsheep2001]

I think there is a key bit of information here:

Quote

As you can see they had most of the ball in their half.

I don't know what PIs you have but on the face of it your pressing isn't particularly intense, and you have a standard line of engagement, with only one player, the CF high up the pitch, so any side recycling the ball deep within their half/team will enjoy lengthy spells of possession. So perhaps have a look at your out of possession instructions and defensive PIs, to be more aggressive in the press and press higher up the pitch

[CARRERA]

8 hours ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

Clearly OP is giving up time on the ball in favor of creating scoring chances, so if the goal is to slow things down and keep hold of the ball more, maybe “hold shape” will help. Based on what the other poster is saying about possession being based on time, would wasting time frequently increase the number even if artificially? 

Yeah, but possession don’t have necessarily to do with slowing things down. Possession is always a product of your in and out of possession playing styles as well as the other teams playing styles. 

No team in real life is playing for the sake of possession and just passes the ball needlessly around, unless they really want to waste time or play less intense to save „energy“ 

The goal for every attacking team is to score as fast as they are technically capable of and the other teams is allowing you to do. You may need to slow things down tho as the other team might sit very deep anyway and the only way to score is looking patiently for the one gap inbetween their lines. 
You also need to restrict the other team in terms of possession if you really want to dominate the game in terms of pressure and possession. 

but as the OP said, the problem is not to score, so why would he take less risks and slow down the attacking play just for higher possession stats. The problem is the other team being very defensive and slowly passing the ball around without taking any risks (that’s what teams do not interested in scoring / taking too many risks). So as being the better team willing to dominate the match he needs to look for restricting the other teams build up / attacking play to get the ball back as quickly as possible. Which doesn’t mean to press and counterpress the whole pitch as this obviously is linked to player capabilities and defensive formation. 

You can see despite playing very differently when it comes to attacking / defending behavior every top team in Europe will end up with 55-60% of possession as they both try to attack the goal and limit the other teams space in one or another way. 
(whoscored.com)

Edited January 17, 2021 by CARRERA

[NotSoSpecialOne]

Restricting what the opponent can do on the ball and winning it back quickly are key elements of having good possession, so a good out of possession setup is an important part of the picture. You could probably stand to be a bit more aggressive than you are currently (depending on if you use PIs already) but this formation isn't great for dealing with teams that are content to recycle and pass it around at the back, so mileage varies.