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Classification of roles in central midfield


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All the time I see people saying "there are no players holding in the midfield" or "an ideal combination should have one holder and one runner" something along the lines of that. So far, what I think is:

Holder: DLP(s/d), CM(d), BWM(d)

Runner: B2B(s), CAR(s), BWM(s), CM(a/s)

Not sure about the other roles like MEZ and AP though. How are these properly classified?

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BWM(d) is not a holder. A holder is a player that sticks to their area and isn't pulled out of position. A BWM leaves their position to pressure the player on the ball.

A DLP(d), CM(d), Anchorman and to a lesser extent a DM(d) all hold their position.

A midfield runner is someone who leaves his position to get ahead of the ball to receive a pass. A BBM, CM(a), Mez(s)/(a) and AP(s)/(a) all look to break forward.

A DM(s) or CM(s) is a versatile role and without TI's or PI's giving him guidance will generally play out based on the player's attributes and PPM's.

I hope that helps.

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I am not sure a BWM(d) would be a holder and a BWM(s) a runner, more a destroyer? Although a quick look at the instructions does show a BWM(d) does have the hold position instruction.

 

Holder, runner, passer, destroyer, creator

 

Consider having a look at: https://www.passion4fm.com/football-manager-player-role-combinations-duty-pairs/#central-midfield for some info (I think that is just the roles and combinations guide stickied in the tactics forum, worth looking at and might help you)

 

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3 hours ago, KCHDD said:

All the time I see people saying "there are no players holding in the midfield" or "an ideal combination should have one holder and one runner" something along the lines of that. So far, what I think is:

Holder: DLP(s/d), CM(d), BWM(d)

Runner: B2B(s), CAR(s), BWM(s), CM(a/s)

Not sure about the other roles like MEZ and AP though. How are these properly classified?

It’s properbly not as easy as that. Going with one holding and running player might be ONE way, but there is so much more. 

It’s for example also possible having two support duty players carrying out defensive responsibilities in a fluid way. Like 2x CMs. 

you should consider not using players go wide like mezzala or carrilero in a 2 man central midfield, as they will open up the middle. Better have a DM or a 3rd CM back them up.

Also keep in mind that Playmakers even with an attack duty wont properbly make as many forward runs into goal scoring positions as you would like when looking for a runner. 

to keep it simple in the first place you could take this as a starting point and move on from there:

If you are looking for a L/R defender to attack down the line make sure to have  a DM with defend duty or a defend duty CM on the defenders side. 

when playing in a 2 man CM like 4231 avoid using attack duties or roles going wide on the CM positions

You can use an attack duty for runs into goal scoring positions to make up for not having an AM. 
 

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It can be quite complicated, because the roles will also do different things with and without the ball. For example a BWM(S) will be a holding player when you have the ball, but will chase people around when you do not. Conversely a CM(A) is a roaming player when you have the ball, but will be more disciplined when you do not. If you see what I mean. Most people will be talking about in possession when they say you need a holder and a runner, but you should not exclude the defensive side either.

I'll try to quickly summarize this (not saying this is a definitive list, my ideas only).

1. In possession holding.
- DLP
- BWM
- CM(S/D)

2. In possession roaming
- MEZ
- AP
- CM(A)
- BBM
- CAR
- RPM

3. Out of possession holding (this will depend on what kind of pressing you have set up).
- DLP
- MEZ
- AP
- CM
- CAR
- RPM

4. Out of possession roaming
- BWM
- BBM (tricky one, but supposed to drop deeper when out of possession).

It is definitely worth noting that this cannot be definitive, because team and player instructions can influence player behaviour. If you use a heavy press then you players will all run around more, for example. If you tell players to stick to their positions it might moderate some of the movement. So yeah, it is complicated. I have not even touched on what will happen in offensive and defensive transitions either. 

The most important thing to remember with picking roles is to understand what you want the player to do, and pick the role that most closely matches that. It may be that a holding player and a roaming player are the best choice, but it will depend on the style you aim for and what players are around them. 

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13 hours ago, KCHDD said:

Holder: DLP(s/d), CM(d), BWM(d)

Yes :thup: 

 

13 hours ago, KCHDD said:

Runner: B2B(s), CAR(s), BWM(s), CM(a/s)

Of those listed, only BBM and CMs/a are outright runners. Other runners are mezzala and RPM. CMs/a is a simple direct runner, whereas BBM, MEZ and RPM are roaming runners. 

Carrilero and BWM on support duty are basically covering midfield roles (at least I like to call them so) or moderate defensive-minded runners, if you will. Something between the holder and the runner ("holding runner"). 

13 hours ago, KCHDD said:

Not sure about the other roles like MEZ and AP though

The mezzala largely explained above (roaming attack-minded runner with a fair amount of creative freedom).

AP on support duty is probably the most difficult to define from the holder vs. runner vs. cover perspective. An attack-minded midfield role, definitely not a holder nor cover, but neither an outright runner. Space-controlling moderate runner is probably the closest definition. PIs like roam from position or hold position can make him err more on one side or the other. 

AP on attack duty is a very attack-minded playmaking runner. 

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13 hours ago, Atarin said:

BWM(d) is not a holder. A holder is a player that sticks to their area and isn't pulled out of position. A BWM leaves their position to pressure the player on the ball

While it's true that BWM is not as much of a holder as DLP or CM on defend duty due to its tendency to close down aggressively, the role is still nominally considered a holding one. Because he will press (and tackle) aggressively, but otherwise won't roam away from his area of (defensive) responsibility.

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This is a GREAT thread and I was just about to ask about the "Holding Midfielder" when I saw this thread.

 

What I would love is for someone to take this kind of approach and explain all the roles, not just the the MC roles. In fact, I have thought about asking if anyone knows of an article or thread that list all the roles and all the base instructions and hidden instructions that go with roles.

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2 hours ago, Herolover said:

This is a GREAT thread and I was just about to ask about the "Holding Midfielder" when I saw this thread.

 

What I would love is for someone to take this kind of approach and explain all the roles, not just the the MC roles. In fact, I have thought about asking if anyone knows of an article or thread that list all the roles and all the base instructions and hidden instructions that go with roles.

@Rashidi has a great thread here. I've just pinned it so that people can find it easily :thup:

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