Carrilero in a 4231 formation?

[ThomasHK1979]

Hi Guys

 

Can you comment on this tactic i made. Shouldn´t  Kessie as carrilero cover for Theo Hernandez when he is going forward?
It says that "nobody is currently responsible for this area"  

[Experienced Defender]

15 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Shouldn´t  Kessie as carrilero cover for Theo Hernandez when he is going forward?

The carrilero as a role is supposed to provide defensive cover for an attack-minded fullback (or wing-back), but whether he'll be able to do that effectively depends on the entire tactical setup as well as the ability of the player playing the role. 

Here you have a top-heavy formation without a DM, which makes the carrilero's job proportionally more difficult. So that's something you also need to take into account. 

I personally would swap the sides of the carrilero and DLP. Because DLP is a holding role and hence more likely to serve as an effective cover for an attacking wing-back. Provided of course that your DLP has solid defense-related attributes. 

[ThomasHK1979]

52 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The carrilero as a role is supposed to provide defensive cover for an attack-minded fullback (or wing-back), but whether he'll be able to do that effectively depends on the entire tactical setup as well as the ability of the player playing the role. 

Here you have a top-heavy formation without a DM, which makes the carrilero's job proportionally more difficult. So that's something you also need to take into account. 

I personally would swap the sides of the carrilero and DLP. Because DLP is a holding role and hence more likely to serve as an effective cover for an attacking wing-back. Provided of course that your DLP has solid defense-related attributes. 

Point taken Thanks. Besides switching position, should I even put the DLP as DLPdef. instead of DLPsup.  ?

Edited January 13, 2021 by ThomasHK1979

[Garrlor]

20 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Point taken Thanks. Besides switching position, should I even put the DLP as DLPdef. instead of DLPsup.  ?

That would make him more likely to sit and cover, however again it comes down to your whole tactical set up. A DLP(D) on a positive mentality may possibly take more risks than a DLP(Su) in a balanced mentality for example. With your higher D Line and higher LOE you may find that he would leave a gap to press a midfielder in front of him, though you havent gone full extra pressing so it may not happen. There are levers that you can use to mitigate though, such as dropping the DLP to the DM strata which may work with your desire to play a higher tempo passing game as he would likely have 2 centre backs, the attacking left wing back and his midfield partner as shorter passing options, as well as the attacking players ahead of him if he wants to go long distance. A WB(Su) is also a pretty aggressive role, so having 2 players concentrating on sitting is a must IMHO.

The biggest thing for me is making sure the DLP player is the right one, so good anticipation and decision making are key so that he can see the requirements he will have in defence as well as the ability to make the decision quickly as to what to do. Try swapping the players first and see if you like what happens on the pitch, if you see patterns you dont like or they dont react in the way that you want them too then make gradual incremental changes (adding hold position, reducing individual pressing etc) and watch watch watch. You can watch a game in full and get a good idea of what is going well and what isn't pretty quickly.

[Experienced Defender]

57 minutes ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

Besides switching position, should I even put the DLP as DLPdef. instead of DLPsup.  ?

I personally would. But you can test both duties and compare 

[FMunderachiever]

5 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

The carrilero as a role is supposed to provide defensive cover for an attack-minded fullback (or wing-back), but whether he'll be able to do that effectively depends on the entire tactical setup as well as the ability of the player playing the role. 

Here you have a top-heavy formation without a DM, which makes the carrilero's job proportionally more difficult. So that's something you also need to take into account. 

I personally would swap the sides of the carrilero and DLP. Because DLP is a holding role and hence more likely to serve as an effective cover for an attacking wing-back. Provided of course that your DLP has solid defense-related attributes. 

is the carrilero not just a slightly less aggressive version of a box to box midfielder, but drifting wide?

would he not be better served with a defensive full back behind him? i thought his role was to link defence to attack?

[Experienced Defender]

58 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

is the carrilero not just a slightly less aggressive version of a box to box midfielder, but drifting wide?

Sort of yes. The key difference is that BBM is a typical midfield runner role, whereas carrilero is primarily a covering midfielder (which is something between a holding role and a runner). That's why the carrilero is in a more favorable position to protect the flank than BBM. 

 

1 hour ago, FMunderachiever said:

would he not be better served with a defensive full back behind him? i thought his role was to link defence to attack?

Carrilero can do both - serve as a link between defense and attack and cover for an attack-minded FB/WB. Depending on the tactical style you want to implement. 

[FMunderachiever]

4 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Sort of yes. The key difference is that BBM is a typical midfield runner role, whereas carrilero is primarily a covering midfielder (which is something between a holding role and a runner). That's why the carrilero is in a more favorable position to protect the flank than BBM. 

 

Carrilero can do both - serve as a link between defense and attack and cover for an attack-minded FB/WB. Depending on the tactical style you want to implement. 

great advice, ill make note of that

[ThomasHK1979]

12 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

The carrilero as a role is supposed to provide defensive cover for an attack-minded fullback (or wing-back), but whether he'll be able to do that effectively depends on the entire tactical setup as well as the ability of the player playing the role. 

Here you have a top-heavy formation without a DM, which makes the carrilero's job proportionally more difficult. So that's something you also need to take into account. 

I personally would swap the sides of the carrilero and DLP. Because DLP is a holding role and hence more likely to serve as an effective cover for an attacking wing-back. Provided of course that your DLP has solid defense-related attributes. 

So now I did it. What I dont like is the square where Kessie is says ´minor issues´

[Garrlor]

No tactic will ever be perfect for those squares, it is simply telling you that you don't have a DM so that area of the pitch isn't as well guarded as if you had someone in the DM strata. Its only a minor issue as the role you picked is a more defensive one so it will provide some cover.

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, ThomasHK1979 said:

What I dont like is the square where Kessie is says ´minor issues´

If you are pleased with how the tactic works, then do not pay attention to that. There are tactical setups that work great even though the game suggests that there are "major issues" in certain areas (let alone minor ones).