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RB Leipzig, can we build a team as exciting and dynamic as real life in FM?


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I have gone over many sites and watched videos to find ideas for good save and decided that Leipzig would be fascinating. Most of my fascination and enthusiasm about Leipzig is clearly from how they are playing in real life. Last year they were in the semi-finals of UCL, which is a big thing for a club like Leipzig and a big testament to their play style. The club is not as historic as Bayern, Borussia but well admired by soccer fans and pundits for their distinct yet attractive playstyle. This thread's main aim would be to develop a tactic that would draw inspiration from the unique playstyle they employ in real life to achieve success. The tactic does not need to be a replica of what they do on the pitch because that is impossible. Still, it should have some basic principles in and out of possession, such as we press when we lose the ball and force turnover high up the pitch then look to break aggressively. We want to be forward-thinking in possession, not enjoying possession for its sake, but if we have the most forward option available, we want to take that option and progress quickly. I will appreciate any outside help and recommendation from anyone to help me achieve my plans and goals. 

Now, for the squad evaluation. 

Our youngest squad in the league further helps our drive to play front foot and attractive soccer and key attributes at all the right places. 

 

 

Facts.jpg

ALL.jpg

DEF.jpg

GK.jpg

MID.jpg

ST.jpg

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I want to follow a couple of references to get an overall idea of their play style and how they like to attack, defend, and press. Here are some videos showing their playstyle and how they achieve success on the pitch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up7EZlFqP1Y&t=249s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTd90NWdwgo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quGoCnh1cPY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-_car-GgcU

 

Edited by raktim0699
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Their playstyle is unpredictable because of the outstanding versatility each player has and can play in any position and formation, but the principle remains the same. They slightly adjust all based on the opposition to counter and disrupt their game plan. Nagelmann is a versatile and unpredictable coach. It might be hard for his players to play in various systems and positions, let alone for the opposition managers to figure out how to best approach them. Nevertheless, the players all have worked on it in the training ground to familiarize themselves to be more swift on the pitch. As the game is so fast and unpredictable, they know they need to be fast and quick to execute everything they do on the pitch. They value collective solutions rather than individual solutions. When out on the pitch, various problems and scenarios arise where players have to choose, and what Nagelsmann does best is to train them behind the scenes to reduce their range of options so they can pick the best one by themselves.

Things he uses regularly are the use of double pivots in his formations, such as (5-2-1-2, 5-2-3, 4-2-3-1, 4-2-2-2, 4-2-4). The advantage of two pivots allows for more versatility by staggering the line creating more depth and height, and rotation. He values possession but want it to be quick with one or two touches and wants his players to be diagonal and vertical. They can accelerate rather quickly, going through each phase (consolidation phase, penetration phase, transitioning to attack) in the blink of an eye. Rotation and progression are critical, and being vertical and diagonal helps with that. They press not wildly but focus on closing down passing lanes and angles, forcing the opposition out wide where they can then close down in numbers and further suffocate the opposition to turnover possession. Nagelmann does not like his players to engage in a physical duel to win possession but wants his players to crowd the opposition's options to force them into mistakes. Their pressing trap also depends on how the opposition likes to play, whether they like to build centrally or out wide. Angles, Body Shape, Timing, Opposition teams, and players are all taken into account before engaging in a game plan.

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Here, I am using 4-4-2 as an example to show pressing traps I want to set. With opposition center-backs being in possession, the striker's job is to block passes into midfield, keeping the midfielders under the cover shadow, so center backs have to go wide, and then we crowd them out with numbers. Applying this concept in FM is a little complicated, and one has to use optimal roles and instructions to achieve these. Opposition instructions will come in handy to force them into areas as well. Setting defensive width narrow may be the correct one to push them outside and increase the wingers' pressing intensity. In the midfield, one role that comes to my mind is BWM (S) to make and tackle the opposition midfielders harder. We want to decrease the opposition's options when they play out from the back and force them to go into areas they do not wish to with our pressing traps and Intensity. Here the situation might look like this as soon as the wingbacks (4) receive the ball; we crowd him blocking passing lanes into surrounding areas. Our LOE, DL, Pressing Intensity, choice of roles and duties, opposition instructions need to work harmoniously with each other to achieve these successes. Otherwise, the opposition can play through us easily because we will be disorganized, and the press we want is not coming from the right players because of the wrong choices of everything.

 

Here the situation might look like this as soon as the wingbacks (4) receive the ball; we crowd him blocking passing lanes into surrounding areas. Our LOE, DL, Pressing Intensity, choice of roles and duties, opposition instructions need to work harmoniously with each other. Otherwise, the opposition can play through us easily because we will be disorganized, and the press we want is not coming from the right players because of the wrong choices of everything.

tactical-board.com (23).png

tactical-board.com (24).png

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Throughout, I focused mostly on winning the ball and out of possession instructions and opposition instructions that can be useful. So, I came up with a few roles and duties it is not precisely correct or achieves what I want them to do, but I think it would be an excellent start.

 formation would be 4-4-2

                                                                     PF(A)       PF(S) 

                                                                    BWM(S)   DLP(S) 

 

Throughout, I focused mostly on winning the ball and out of possession instructions and opposition instructions that can be useful. So, I came up with a few roles and duties it is not precisely correct or achieves what I want them to do, but I think it would be an excellent start. The reason for picking these roles was to win the ball back high up the pitch and put pressure on the opposition. Both Strikers are playing as Pressing Forward, but one attack duty and another on defend. I pick these roles to put pressure on the opposition defenders if they are playing out from the back to force them to go into areas where they would struggle to play out and feel congested. But I am not sure whether playing each of them on different duties is the right choice because my thinking was that the one who is on support duty would press the midfielders. Pressing forward on support duty might have a much more considerable influence on larger pitch areas to go out press the opposition midfielders. I want to mention that this is my thought process and could be wrong as I need to test to see how they perform on the pitch. BWM (s) will press the opposition midfielders and give them less time to decide since he will leave out of his position to chase the midfielders and go into wide areas to win the ball back. His partner DLP(S) has hold position instructions to hold his position and not entirely be as aggressive as him. I hope these roles work well and make sense of what I want to achieve. I do not know what other roles to support them by as after winning the ball back; we need to make sure we score goals to make it count.

If someone has any recommendations and can provide me with some tips and want to know more can leave their opinions and comments, I would appreciate it.

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I wouldn't use the DLP in midfield, he might want to control the game too much so players could ignore the line breaking pass towards your forwards and pass to him instead. 

I use a similar(ish) system in my save and I'm obsessed with having my pivot in the DM strata with the DL pushed higher and LOE on standard. That brings the team close enough vertically when defending. Volante(s) would be the 'stopper' of the pair and Anchorman the 'cover'. This pair in the DM also allows to push your wide players more forward and gives them space to come narrow into a 4-2-2-2 shape.

 

Great stuff with the YouTube videos, I'm going to implement some more of those ideas in my tactic for sure. I'll especially try to defend narrower and setting OI's to press the wide players. 

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8 hours ago, rtnn said:

I wouldn't use the DLP in midfield, he might want to control the game too much so players could ignore the line breaking pass towards your forwards and pass to him instead. 

I use a similar(ish) system in my save and I'm obsessed with having my pivot in the DM strata with the DL pushed higher and LOE on standard. That brings the team close enough vertically when defending. Volante(s) would be the 'stopper' of the pair and Anchorman the 'cover'. This pair in the DM also allows to push your wide players more forward and gives them space to come narrow into a 4-2-2-2 shape.

 

Great stuff with the YouTube videos, I'm going to implement some more of those ideas in my tactic for sure. I'll especially try to defend narrower and setting OI's to press the wide players. 

It would be hard to pull off such a feat because it requires intricacies from so many different angles. You got to understand the mechanics of the game incredibly well; nevertheless still have to tinker and manipulate to match each opponent and their tactics, but when done correctly, I am sure it will work wonder. The opponents will find it hard to play out and get suffocated, resulting in many easy counter goals. I remembered in the earlier version of FM, every opponent used to play out from the back. It was incredibly frustrating to watch when they recycle the ball continuously back to their GK and CD all the time without any intention of moving up the field. This year, FM is more advanced, and you got to strategize smartly, and I feel opposition instructions are crucial. You can not go berserk on the pressing as this will tire your players and make it somewhat easy for your opposition to playing through your press. As opposed to last year's version, opponents can now keep the ball longer and penetrate through the center as well, so it less predictable. Last year you would certainly hope that they score from crosses most of the time, but this year midfielders play nice through pass, and surrounding players all make smart and intelligent runs. 

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After strategizing on drawing boards for a while and visualizing how roles will interact came up with this. First of all, let me declare I am not an expert to release the pressure that I tend to put on myself. Hence, I frequently like to get other people's views and tips to get further clarification and enjoy a complete sense of fulfillment because at least I had some part to play behind the scenes. To begin, I must mention why I put specific roles and the reason behind them. When I pick a formation with a hole player specifically in this system, I want to build it to have players make runs behind him, so he is the linker. Since he is a playmaker, he has an immense influence when we have possession of the ball going around the pitch just following the play. I thought about supporting him with runners and making him link everything together play quick one-twos. Behind him, for that purpose, I put two roles that do not necessarily stay in their position; instead, they move around BBM(s) & Mez(s). It is essential not to put all on support duty because that will make the pitch more congested and an example of an inefficient use of space. Creating space is vital in soccer, and there are different ways to create space. For instance, we can have many players on attack duty who will penetrate the opponents and make runs behind, creating space for other players playing in proper roles and duties to benefit. It is also necessary that you consider TI because it will change how your players move around the pitch. As I said, a tactic can work with all the players on support duty with the right instructions and combinations of roles and duties, but everything must match accordingly to fine-tune a tactic. The tactic's creator might have something on his mind while creating the tactic that might not fall into any theory or formula known to FM but could still work. So, it might not be reasonable to judge a tactic by making it fall into a formula. The person who created the tactic, his views, and vision is the ultimate reference point. The above tactic shown might have some flaws, but so far in friendlies, we managed to create a couple of admirable goals that makes me say that this is how it should look on the pitch. I will love to receive any tips and reviews to refine my tactic further, so when I go into most games, I come after experiencing the same feeling of content. It is sometimes not about winning because sometimes it just depends on luck, but where consistency lies or especially for me, you see your team playing like you frequently want because you know results will come and fans will enjoy. There are too many support duties, so my question is, is it possible to have this tactic serve its purpose and create beautiful goals while having some attack duties at the right places?

PXL_20210111_215512670.jpg

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Been trying to replicate the 4-4-2 (or 4-2-2-2) of Nagelsmann with my Deportivo side (second season, first one on La Liga 2) and it has been really beautiful football to watch.

I'll put here a link of 4 goals of my last game (a 5-0 win at Las Palmas): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbgVzDWOpFs

 

The basis of my tactic has been a mix of the tactic and principles of @AceAvengeron his gegenpress thread and RDFTactics on FM20.
Link for AceAvenger topic:

Link for RDF:

 

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18 hours ago, raktim0699 said:

There are too many support duties, so my question is, is it possible to have this tactic serve its purpose and create beautiful goals while having some attack duties at the right places?

Many support duties are not a problem as long as they are properly distributed within the system and the setup is well-balanced. The problem in your tactic IMHO is precisely the lack of balance and bad distribution.

For example, a partnership between a role like mezzala (regardless of its duty) and a fullback or wing-back on attack duty (regardless of the role) is extremely unbalanced, especially in terms of defensive stability. Not to mention that IWB as a role is virtually ineffective in narrow formations (read the in-game role description for IWB).

Where the abundance of support duties in your system is likely to cause issues is the attacking midfleld area. Just take a look at roles operating there - as many as 5 players vying for influence in the same area (2 roaming runners from central midfield, a supporting playmaker in AMC and both strikers encouraged to drop there). So who is supposed to attack space and/or act as a simple goal-scorer? 

And all this pertains only to the selection of roles and duties. I haven't even touched upon your instructions. 

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21 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Many support duties are not a problem as long as they are properly distributed within the system and the setup is well-balanced. The problem in your tactic IMHO is precisely the lack of balance and bad distribution.

For example, a partnership between a role like mezzala (regardless of its duty) and a fullback or wing-back on attack duty (regardless of the role) is extremely unbalanced, especially in terms of defensive stability. Not to mention that IWB as a role is virtually ineffective in narrow formations (read the in-game role description for IWB).

Where the abundance of support duties in your system is likely to cause issues is the attacking midfleld area. Just take a look at roles operating there - as many as 5 players vying for influence in the same area (2 roaming runners from central midfield, a supporting playmaker in AMC and both strikers encouraged to drop there). So who is supposed to attack space and/or act as a simple goal-scorer? 

And all this pertains only to the selection of roles and duties. I haven't even touched upon your instructions. 

Can you suggest any tips on how to achieve balance

 

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1 hour ago, raktim0699 said:

Can you suggest any tips on how to achieve balance

 

I can. But the problem is that you want to specifically replicate a real-life club's playing style I am not familiar with. So I can only give you tips on how to improve the balance in general, but not from the perspective of real-life replication.

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On 12/01/2021 at 01:56, raktim0699 said:

After strategizing on drawing boards for a while and visualizing how roles will interact came up with this. First of all, let me declare I am not an expert to release the pressure that I tend to put on myself. Hence, I frequently like to get other people's views and tips to get further clarification and enjoy a complete sense of fulfillment because at least I had some part to play behind the scenes. To begin, I must mention why I put specific roles and the reason behind them. When I pick a formation with a hole player specifically in this system, I want to build it to have players make runs behind him, so he is the linker. Since he is a playmaker, he has an immense influence when we have possession of the ball going around the pitch just following the play. I thought about supporting him with runners and making him link everything together play quick one-twos. Behind him, for that purpose, I put two roles that do not necessarily stay in their position; instead, they move around BBM(s) & Mez(s). It is essential not to put all on support duty because that will make the pitch more congested and an example of an inefficient use of space. Creating space is vital in soccer, and there are different ways to create space. For instance, we can have many players on attack duty who will penetrate the opponents and make runs behind, creating space for other players playing in proper roles and duties to benefit. It is also necessary that you consider TI because it will change how your players move around the pitch. As I said, a tactic can work with all the players on support duty with the right instructions and combinations of roles and duties, but everything must match accordingly to fine-tune a tactic. The tactic's creator might have something on his mind while creating the tactic that might not fall into any theory or formula known to FM but could still work. So, it might not be reasonable to judge a tactic by making it fall into a formula. The person who created the tactic, his views, and vision is the ultimate reference point. The above tactic shown might have some flaws, but so far in friendlies, we managed to create a couple of admirable goals that makes me say that this is how it should look on the pitch. I will love to receive any tips and reviews to refine my tactic further, so when I go into most games, I come after experiencing the same feeling of content. It is sometimes not about winning because sometimes it just depends on luck, but where consistency lies or especially for me, you see your team playing like you frequently want because you know results will come and fans will enjoy. There are too many support duties, so my question is, is it possible to have this tactic serve its purpose and create beautiful goals while having some attack duties at the right places?

PXL_20210111_215512670.jpg

PFS and TMS will drop deep but who is going to utilize the space created? APS? No, he's going to attract ball and try to dictate the game from deep.

Any inverted wingback will default to a normal one in a narrow formation or a formation having 2 DMs. So it's useless.

There is no one reliable to hold the central channel against counterattacks or recycle balls from deep because BBM and MEZS will roam from position. A libero is less useful with a playmaker in front of him.

Play out of Defence, Dribble Less(better for cautious styles), Fairly Narrow are used with possession-based styles while Higher Tempo is good for fast transition styles. 

Defending Narrow should never be used for narrow formations. You don't definitely want your WB to be overloaded against wide formations.

Prevent GK distribution is useless with only two strikers(should be used with three or more players in AM or ST strata)

I'd be wary of Get Stuck In. Instead, Stay on Feet will ensure your players press without losing their man. After all, your aim with a high press is to force opposition to make mistakes.

Edited by frukox
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How does this look

                                                  DLF/PF (S) /   TM (s)

                                                             SS (A)

                                                 DLP (s) or (D) /  Car (s)

                                      CWB (A)                                    WB (A)

                                                    BPD (D) BPD(D) BPD (C)

If there is lack of support then maybe change SS (A) to AM (A) and also my focus here is to build play down the both flanks in possession to be more vertical

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15 minutes ago, raktim0699 said:

How does this look

                                                  DLF/PF (S) /   TM (s)

                                                             SS (A)

                                                 DLP (s) or (D) /  Car (s)

                                      CWB (A)                                    WB (A)

                                                    BPD (D) BPD(D) BPD (C)

If there is lack of support then maybe change SS (A) to AM (A) and also my focus here is to build play down the both flanks in possession to be more vertical

Really interested in this as I would like to replicate Nagglesmans tactic myself. What I would say about the roles above is with no wide players in front of your DL or DR these positions will be more aggressive anyway as they have no one in front. So you may find attack duties are too aggressive with a narrow formation.

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35 minutes ago, raktim0699 said:

How does this look

                                                  DLF/PF (S) /   TM (s)

                                                             SS (A)

                                                 DLP (s) or (D) /  Car (s)

                                      CWB (A)                                    WB (A)

                                                    BPD (D) BPD(D) BPD (C)

If there is lack of support then maybe change SS (A) to AM (A) and also my focus here is to build play down the both flanks in possession to be more vertical

Let's look at this. DLFS and TMS will drop deep to create the space needed for SSA but who is going to support him during the build-up. They might be too deep to support him properly. What about this?

F9         TMA

       SS

F9 will drop deep while TMA will occupy the CBs by holding up the ball which hopefully create space for SS to move into.

To support this trio, your midfield structure may be:

          DLPD      CMS

WBA                             WBS

WBA will maintain width and is going to occupy the wing space created by F9 and support the attackers better early by taking risks while DLPD collects the ball from the CBs. WBS will maintain width and occupy the FB to stretch the play to wider areas by linking up with CMS and TMA.

or if your attacking play slows down too much, you can change the midfield to:

CMD DLPS or just CMD CMS

You can try these.

Fortunately, the CBs are simple:) Three CDs. They will distribute the ball to the midfield, mostly to the DLPD.

Edited by frukox
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1 hour ago, raktim0699 said:

DLF/PF (S) /   TM (s)

                                                             SS (A)

                                                 DLP (s) or (D) /  Car (s)

                                      CWB (A)                                    WB (A)

                                                    BPD (D) BPD(D) BPD (C)

 

1 hour ago, raktim0699 said:

How does this look

Much better when it comes to overall balance :thup:

Wondering what's the idea with 3 BPDs though (and why the right one is on cover duty)? 

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  • 1 month later...

Your tactic really interests me. I love the formation but can rarely get it to work. In FM18 I did get it to work and it was somewhat similar to yours:

image.png.75e2d51c9477fa44b29fee5be99a5c

 

Obviously I didn't have the roles available now. For instance, I'd probably use a libero now in the DC(c) spot. What I was doing at the time was attempting to make the RB a pseudo playmaker. It didn't work as I planned (the tactic overall was a world-beater but the RB didn't play as a playmaker) but I think with the current version it could.

 

Why I bring this up is you tried something very similar back on January 12 (apologies for going back three months). I am assuming you had Halstenberg as an IWB because you realised the IWB doesn't cut inside without someone ahead. The IWB-At also has very interesting PI's locked in. With what you had on I assume you were having trouble linking defence and midfield. The BBM & Mezala combo just seems too far away from the CB's to me. Even with a libero I would be concerned. It's also why I went with a DLP as I worried my stoppers wouldn't link the midfield. I'd also worry about your wingbacks. Both will get forward with little cover while doing so.

 

Your forward line I'm not too concerned with, especially the F9/TM combo you changed to. From my pic above I can tell you for a fact the player in the ST(l) position is certainly not a trequartista with his stats. I'd actually tried Davie Selke as a trequartista in the same version when I played as RB Leipzig in a different save. Davie isn't a trequartista either. The reason I wanted this role is moreso to attract the ball but not in the way a TM does. This may be something you'd like to consider that you may not have thought of. I actually used the combo of Treq/F9 in a 4-4-2 (2xDM) with RB Leipzig with Davie (the TM-type player) as the treq. It may work for Sorloth, it may not but it certainly should be considered.

 

I'd love to see the final outcome you get working. Like I said, I love the formation and would like to see a successful version in FM21.

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48 minutes ago, nick1408 said:

Your tactic really interests me. I love the formation but can rarely get it to work. In FM18 I did get it to work and it was somewhat similar to yours:

image.png.75e2d51c9477fa44b29fee5be99a5c

 

Obviously I didn't have the roles available now. For instance, I'd probably use a libero now in the DC(c) spot. What I was doing at the time was attempting to make the RB a pseudo playmaker. It didn't work as I planned (the tactic overall was a world-beater but the RB didn't play as a playmaker) but I think with the current version it could.

 

Why I bring this up is you tried something very similar back on January 12 (apologies for going back three months). I am assuming you had Halstenberg as an IWB because you realised the IWB doesn't cut inside without someone ahead. The IWB-At also has very interesting PI's locked in. With what you had on I assume you were having trouble linking defence and midfield. The BBM & Mezala combo just seems too far away from the CB's to me. Even with a libero I would be concerned. It's also why I went with a DLP as I worried my stoppers wouldn't link the midfield. I'd also worry about your wingbacks. Both will get forward with little cover while doing so.

 

Your forward line I'm not too concerned with, especially the F9/TM combo you changed to. From my pic above I can tell you for a fact the player in the ST(l) position is certainly not a trequartista with his stats. I'd actually tried Davie Selke as a trequartista in the same version when I played as RB Leipzig in a different save. Davie isn't a trequartista either. The reason I wanted this role is moreso to attract the ball but not in the way a TM does. This may be something you'd like to consider that you may not have thought of. I actually used the combo of Treq/F9 in a 4-4-2 (2xDM) with RB Leipzig with Davie (the TM-type player) as the treq. It may work for Sorloth, it may not but it certainly should be considered.

 

I'd love to see the final outcome you get working. Like I said, I love the formation and would like to see a successful version in FM21.

I love this shape. So so good. 

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