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My Fluid Counter-Attack: 0.53 AG per game, 0.43 in second season


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  • Novem9 changed the title to My Fluid Counter-Attack (0.53 AG per game)

Interesting read and very solid results.

I'm curious about marking the DLP/AP - do you set it as PI for the player in your team that's closest to DLP/AP (mark specific player)? Do you add TM Always to that opposing player? Is it a combination of both?

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2 минуты назад, TIR669 сказал:

Interesting read and very solid results.

I'm curious about marking the DLP/AP - do you set it as PI for the player in your team that's closest to DLP/AP (mark specific player)? Do you add TM Always to that opposing player? Is it a combination of both?

It was individual for every case. I never used pre-game OI forsure because there are no info about PM roles.
Usually this is OI during game. Rarely I did use PI marking, but it was mainly for cases where I already won and need to waste a time for finish. But I like OI more because I need a few players who will be open for counter, so PI marking is a 'mutual disabling' , exchange of chess pieces :) 

Concerning PI marking, it was sometimes for my FB more for closer players for their positions

Also I still dont check one case. I use tight marking as TI and I suspect this is could be an influence for OI marking. As I has a tight marking for ALL players, so DLP marking is not so priority as it could be.
But I was no ready to use marking for OI only, mb it will be in next seasons.

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Posted (edited)

Few changes happen in second season. At first I sold my vice captain Samuel Gigot which moved for Burnley (11 mln euro)
But I bought a young quick player which looks very good in my tactic, for first games at least."

image.png.e1df106a44aeeaddec6c7eea76c4030f.png


I wanted to buy more players, but as I said before - stupid foreign limit blocked any chance for a big changes. But honestly - my rep and league rep are not attracted a good players, just 1-2 foreign which I probably bought if have a slots.
Second positive - few young players which I started to use in main team in prev season are better now. So I even have a real reserve, rotation opportunity :onmehead:

image.png.f2c513688000f831e5c73052c6074616.pngimage.png.b5b840ece90c8711e73826f2bd6d92b4.pngimage.png.891a1e26fe540df1836d87bc193adf90.png

What about tactic, as you remember both my formations had DLP role. Funny thing, because this happened just because it was the promise for Youssef Aït Bennasser which I bought from Monaco. For now I sent him for Nice's loan and promise is done anyway, so I changed DLP for CM. This is good thing because this is not a good idea to use DLP for opposite marking :) 

Btw, my current main formation is 433. And second, very importang change - balanced mentality. I inspired this idea after won 2-0 Zenit. Positive mentality gave me best team of the league by created chances, but I didnt win the title. 

image.png.cf50059af494f614a8c7aef2ba251fc1.png

 

I still play in this funny game to isolate opposite playmaker, but less often

565280077_Image1.png.112235e7c01f112cc7201172a6f63ec7.png

 

This is the picture which I want to see. 5 players are focused for counter attacks. 1 player (CM) is a support in all sences. 4 players are focused for defence at first

2103403403_Image2.png.0a40a2528977573261e0441c80900394.png

 

First months I used CM with PI 'hold position' but I deleted this later. It was idea to CM not go into box area , but he still did. But looked like this PI created some troubles for my defensive shape.

 

 

I tried to find a system in choosing of LOE. And it looks like no system exist :) LOE -1 (or 0, or+1) could work for any team and this is no a clear correlation between opposite formation, or opposite club reputation, etc. This is a sum of many factors, and opposite tactic (TI) is hidden, so every game I need to watch and analyze. This is not bad for me, just to clarification, because it was a big question for me and some other members about LOE. This is not an arcade with a true answers ;) every case is unique.

Unfortunatelly I realized this after I lose qualification for ChL Group Stage. I won 1-0 Sporting Lisboa at home.

Just 2 pictures from away game. And little note - I won first game in usin LOE -1, but Sporting was careful in first game (and they were close to paid for this!) so I believed my LOE -1 will be a perfect plan for second game too.

1) First goal, long shot. My LOE was -1 and this was a free space to land airplane :D 

1208746087_Image4.png.87843c8d2806346770f5d21d26d74287.png

 

2) Second goal, very similar situation. Sporting used very uncomfortable formation for me - 4312 without wing midfields. The same situations didnt exist usually, but there are I had a skilled opposite side which used my mistakes effective

1838554085_Image5.png.6e19f88136ee58193ee0ce1ded5779ee.png

It would be very interesting to check my tactic with the best teams, but we'll have to postpone it for next season. Hopefully :)

 

In general balanced mentality works better that I expected. I need to analyze what went wrong in Ufa away and this game spoils the overall impression :D Btw, exactly after Ufa I deleted 'hold position' for CM. Will see for changes.

image.png.1d8aa4233b0f3066c6ee8981e42fd752.png

My agenda is FBs. My FB(d) had cautious mentality in positive. For now I use FB(s) (balanced mentality) + hold position. And my right flank looks unreliable in defence.
So I will be think about this role and LB role too, just by chance, since I started :D 

 

If you have any minds and ideas about tactic and roles, feel free to say this :) Thank you for attention!

 

p.s. after Ufa away defeat I delete tight marking from TI. It will be marking for OI only in next games

Edited by Novem9
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Can I use this as a plug and play? 

 

I want to play this tactic on a 442 but I'm not sure how to set up the roles. 

 

I have been trying to find a defensive tactic for ages but with no success.  This is why your post drew my attention. 

Edited by ta11zx
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6 hours ago, ta11zx said:

Can I use this as a plug and play? 

 

I want to play this tactic on a 442 but I'm not sure how to set up the roles. 

 

I have been trying to find a defensive tactic for ages but with no success.  This is why your post drew my attention. 

Those kind of tactics are in the Tactic Sharing Forum. You can take a look at them there.https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/67-tactics-sharing-centre-uploaddownload/

Edited by frukox
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Posted (edited)
9 часов назад, ta11zx сказал:

Can I use this as a plug and play? 

 

I dont think so. P'n'p tactics are usually extra agressive and this is why you can use them in any team and in any context (and still it couldn't be working for specific teams/matches)
As I wrote above, I have some little changes during almost every game. OI, LOE, duties, small things, but I do. And small things are influential too. And tactic is adapted for current players for sure.

 

9 часов назад, ta11zx сказал:

I want to play this tactic on a 442 but I'm not sure how to set up the roles. 

 

I used 442 in this save twice. But both cases were for 15-20 minutes during match in injuries issue.
First time it was a fail (LOE -1) and the second it was better. I used DL=0 and LOE=+1. I dont remember used or not regroup option, but it was an idea that 2 strikers AF+PF(s) are blocking opposite team while other team move for defensive shape.

Probably it worked for specific opponent only, but tactic worked because I watched to the field and corrected TI. FM21 is good for this.
Theory is important, but in the end you need take decisions in a real time. Example - many members write about they like to play DL+1 and LOE=0, but I tried to play in this many times and looks like I just dont understand this. So I play in styles which I feel, like this one fluid counter. 

 

9 часов назад, ta11zx сказал:

I have been trying to find a defensive tactic for ages but with no success.  This is why your post drew my attention. 

You are always could ask in this forum about your tactic and search for questions (TI options for example) which already asked/answered. This is much more useful than try to find solution just by yourself, especially if you have no understanding of some things :thup:

 

Cheers!

Edited by Novem9
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Posted (edited)

I finished second season. And spoiler - yes, I did it! :onmehead:But first things first.

All games until winter break I played by tactic above. It was good, pretty solid. My AF is scored many many goals, but it was a feeling that I could more. Especially because I had a real stimulus represented by Dinamo Moscow :mad:

Half-season positions:

image.thumb.png.73586829729c410fbe5084b2b9bdccf5.png

It was a simple group stage of EL, actually it could be a little kind of sensation with Spurs at home. But Spurs away destroyed me, no chances.

image.png.6593d535740b2ece879aa57c97e74981.png

 

image.png.03c4ae0041c5c5cad469bcb23dd6f61b.png

 

Next alarm for changes was in winter friendly games, but I ignored them. I played vs RBL in EL, big opponent, I was scared and tried to win by change my tactic. RBL played 5212 so I used 4231 double DM and... lose 3-0 away :( No chances for comeback. Next game and I lose 2-3 in Russian Cup, Rubin away. TIME FOR CHANGES

image.png.a5696d6fa5569d663ede3f8c0e65b875.png

 

  • As before I change LOE depending on game's context
  • TI which I used sometimes - Tighter Marking, Get stuck in (very careful, actually I have no red cards in this season :cool:), More urgent (vs small opponents where this is no possible to play in counter attacks, rarely option), shoot on sight (rarely)
  • I wrote about FB and changes there are. So I still play image.png.3dcc433dee46e3db3ff2e591cc12fd3a.png
    so it could be better to use Ayrton as FB(s), not FB(a), this is more productive to use him in stages 1 and 2, not 3. + he use crosses too in support duty. The same things, risk is lower, profit :thup:
    RB is FB(d) because other part of right flank is attacking anyway. 
  • AnchorMan -> DM. A is good role, I tried to reproduce Makelele in Chelsea. But at first he played more agressive too, and second, I avoided DM when I used positive mentality, but in balanced this is fine. More life in the area
  • CM(a) -> MEZ. I'm proud this switch :D CM(a) was helpful sometimes, but I used him more for marking opposite DLP ^_^ 
    Mez is very interfering role for opposite team. One of my favouirite for any style

mez.png.b8cca457d2556e3cef73e4dbaf6977e3.png

At first, opposite DM/CM(d)/BWM is losing position to marking him or MEZ is free. His positions are very promising to make direct passing in box area.

 

image.png.c67394d644bd7584c9d809f99a1643d4.png

 

Yes, I have a point of dependence, because MEZ is very effective to busting attacks, but at first - try to block him, at second - I play fluid counter - I just use direct passing and what you will do? :D

image.png.d4b16764ad18ff94eb131737d4a706ef.png

 

When you focus attention for my MEZ, your attention is lower in some other areas

image.png.5e776a0bb210ef9dd69943b3024731d1.png

 

And MEZ is more useful from deeper positions than CM(a)

ezgif-7-10f2484037ae.gif.29cb0b2d7441dc3df81c9957c04f7e84.gif

 

Already classic goal by the third partner

ezgif-7-508ad3dce72b.gif.f16ace443bd50d2de4301b23dc9a762d.gif

 

Well, you take the point :) 

Urunov stats for prev and current season. Not sure about possibility to check only second half of season

image.png.70fb08734d056df252a69c501ea6bd03.png

 

Updated tactic at work (RBL home and later) :

image.png.3bd538df42d3bcbf023ccfb5706852ef.png

 

And, second attempt only, but the champion! ;)

image.thumb.png.05269a3e505bd67cf805d38a3e850e85.png

 

Difference (prev season - current season)

  • Goals for 56-60
  • Goals away 16-13
  • Points 66-75

I have 0 draws (have no idea how it possible) and 5 loses, and 2 of them - clear managers (TI) fails. Learn by proccess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, I have 13 AG in 30 games - 0.43 per game! Honestly this was a more important for me than points :lol:

Two my players are best strikers

image.png.a0affeab08f9297218f6e599bf94056f.png

 

Exactly what I wanted - less chances, but more % finishing of them. I guess positive mentality had a burst which I really dont need, balanced mentality is mix of speed and smart, in this specific case at least

image.png.4cb1253755b60cf3cba3dbf508c2633e.png

 

Possession btw

image.png.515c1d67df9fa1df35c23bec03f3e5a2.png

 

Raise a glass for counter football :D 

Thank you for attention and for your comments, its very inspires :) 

Edited by Novem9
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Excellent stuff once again, building on last year's 442! 

Em 03/01/2021 em 03:38, Riziger disse:

Good read, I'm playing at much lower level but will use some of your ideas

I'm also more into this style of play but I found it too difficult while managing in the 4th division. It just pays off to be more proactive and get the ball to stay in the opposition half since mistakes happen very often.

You need good mental attributes to pull this off effectively and good forwards to be dangerous on their own.

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1 час назад, afailed10 сказал:

Excellent stuff once again, building on last year's 442! 

 

not sure that understood this

 

1 час назад, afailed10 сказал:

I'm also more into this style of play but I found it too difficult while managing in the 4th division. It just pays off to be more proactive and get the ball to stay in the opposition half since mistakes happen very often.

 

I have save by Perugia in 3th Italian division, there are players have a troubles to passing for closer players. So yes, own players are bad, but opposite not better, so..

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36 minutos atrás, Novem9 disse:
 

not sure that understood this

 

I have save by Perugia in 3th Italian division, there are players have a troubles to passing for closer players. So yes, own players are bad, but opposite not better, so..

The Lobanovsky 442 direct counter thread isn't yours? my apologies then. It was my favorite tactical thread of last year. 

Regarding the lower league suitability yes, you have a point but i wasn't successful and buying players wasn't an option. Sometimes I'd suffer a goal from a corner and i had difficulties recovering a goal down. I was also suffering a lot lf balls over the top in a default dline and balanced mentality. Getting lower than that gave them too much initiative and eventually conceded goals. As i said, my players are very poor, so it's better to be solid in the middle and keep pressure on the opposition. 

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  • Novem9 changed the title to My Fluid Counter-Attack: 0.53 AG per game, 0.43 in second season
1 час назад, afailed10 сказал:

I was also suffering a lot lf balls over the top in a default dline and balanced mentality

Tbh searching of relevant mentality is the worst part for me :) My fm-life would be simpler if we have just one mentality and deep PI
I check cautious mentality + more urgent and both lines are deeper and this is so not obvious

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Posted (edited)

I think to start a new save for new experiements. I'm interested to check pragmatic styles with 3CB, 442, etc.

Save by Spartak started to be a routine, national league is 8 place by UEFA rating and I can't improve my squad despite my balance is 140 mln euro. Maybe I will play few seasons more later, but until 21.3 I want to continue research some things :) 

One question was opened and it was very interesting for me. And I decided to share answer in this thread too, I believe few members will be curious to see too. Even if no, it will be look more finished anyway.

Question is - 'How it feels in Champions League?' Answer - pretty spry :) 

image.png.abbfc431380df2657262927d32790419.png

 

Another note which I want to share for discussion - attributes. I was sceptical about this, like 'if tactic is good, it must works anyway!'. 

But I have a new CB (Roman) in 3th season. Lets compare him with CB (Filip) which I bought season before:

image.thumb.png.17bb06790bb798143f45e5f8493ce59a.png

I marked by red line attributes which better for Roman and which as I can see, are important in cases when opposite team have attack after attack. Uremovic is good for more balanced games, where defence could to catch breath.

It always could be placebo factor, but I started to believe (just after watch many games with them in pragmatic style) that looks like even 1 point for an attribute has a difference, sometimes smaller, sometimes key importance. So this is really interesting to collect suitable players. I was worried about Roman's decision is 10, but so far this is enough for his duties.

 

Cheers!

Edited by Novem9
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