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[FM21][Skin] Non-numeric attributes [★] *updated August 29th*


sebastian_starttrbts
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Richard Bell said:

sweet mate that has worked a treat!

only place i have found no stars showing is in the image below, not sure why it is displaying 1's?

 

Player pop up attribute numbers are still showing, i'm not sure what coding to change and what to enter for stars to show.  I think the xml file is player overview popup panel

Untitled.png

I feel like there are no "1's", but the left part of the stars instead. That's an example of what I meant concerning the different star positions in different layouts. Looking at the space available in this section, I am not that sure, whether the stars will properly fit in there. Otherwise you'll have to adjust the star sizes as well... so it is a lot of trial and error, like I said. 

I'm not sure whether you really need the player overview popup panel.xml since I don't think I have this file in my data and the attributes in the popup are replaced in my version. Please be aware that I can't offer some kind of "complete support" in merging my skin with any other. I can only illustrate the procedure I would follow to do so. In principle the skin data I created is all you need. Next is comparing my data with the other one and trying to combine them in a clever way and it should work after some adjustments. 

 

EDIT: "inbox assistant managers player training report appears to be displaying numbers, puzzled what this could be." -> inbox content with training focus panel

I would recommend you to transfer the files I edited one by one and have a look what they'll affect in the skin. You usually get a hint of where to look in the file's name. 

Edited by sebastian_starttrbts
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15 hours ago, sebastian_starttrbts said:

I feel like there are no "1's", but the left part of the stars instead. That's an example of what I meant concerning the different star positions in different layouts. Looking at the space available in this section, I am not that sure, whether the stars will properly fit in there. Otherwise you'll have to adjust the star sizes as well... so it is a lot of trial and error, like I said. 

I'm not sure whether you really need the player overview popup panel.xml since I don't think I have this file in my data and the attributes in the popup are replaced in my version. Please be aware that I can't offer some kind of "complete support" in merging my skin with any other. I can only illustrate the procedure I would follow to do so. In principle the skin data I created is all you need. Next is comparing my data with the other one and trying to combine them in a clever way and it should work after some adjustments. 

 

EDIT: "inbox assistant managers player training report appears to be displaying numbers, puzzled what this could be." -> inbox content with training focus panel

I would recommend you to transfer the files I edited one by one and have a look what they'll affect in the skin. You usually get a hint of where to look in the file's name. 

FOUND IT!!! My bad, i had forgot one file... from the folder news item panel.  I had to cross reference with flut 9.0 where it was working fine.  and i spotted it straight away.

 

Thank you so much for all your help and time with it.

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23 hours ago, sebastian_starttrbts said:

I feel like there are no "1's", but the left part of the stars instead. That's an example of what I meant concerning the different star positions in different layouts. Looking at the space available in this section, I am not that sure, whether the stars will properly fit in there. Otherwise you'll have to adjust the star sizes as well... so it is a lot of trial and error, like I said. 

I'm not sure whether you really need the player overview popup panel.xml since I don't think I have this file in my data and the attributes in the popup are replaced in my version. Please be aware that I can't offer some kind of "complete support" in merging my skin with any other. I can only illustrate the procedure I would follow to do so. In principle the skin data I created is all you need. Next is comparing my data with the other one and trying to combine them in a clever way and it should work after some adjustments. 

 

EDIT: "inbox assistant managers player training report appears to be displaying numbers, puzzled what this could be." -> inbox content with training focus panel

I would recommend you to transfer the files I edited one by one and have a look what they'll affect in the skin. You usually get a hint of where to look in the file's name. 

FOUND IT!!! My bad, i had forgot one file... from the folder news item panel.  I had to cross reference with flut 9.0 where it was working fine.  and i spotted it straight away.

 

Thank you so much for all your help and time with it.

23 hours ago, sebastian_starttrbts said:

I feel like there are no "1's", but the left part of the stars instead. That's an example of what I meant concerning the different star positions in different layouts. Looking at the space available in this section, I am not that sure, whether the stars will properly fit in there. Otherwise you'll have to adjust the star sizes as well... so it is a lot of trial and error, like I said. 

I'm not sure whether you really need the player overview popup panel.xml since I don't think I have this file in my data and the attributes in the popup are replaced in my version. Please be aware that I can't offer some kind of "complete support" in merging my skin with any other. I can only illustrate the procedure I would follow to do so. In principle the skin data I created is all you need. Next is comparing my data with the other one and trying to combine them in a clever way and it should work after some adjustments. 

 

EDIT: "inbox assistant managers player training report appears to be displaying numbers, puzzled what this could be." -> inbox content with training focus panel

I would recommend you to transfer the files I edited one by one and have a look what they'll affect in the skin. You usually get a hint of where to look in the file's name. 

with regards to the client object browser, would there be any chance of putting in a code for the in game editor and the ability to change background and opacity % to be available at the top right of the skin please?

 

Many thanks in advance

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10 hours ago, Richard Bell said:

with regards to the client object browser, would there be any chance of putting in a code for the in game editor and the ability to change background and opacity % to be available at the top right of the skin please?

Many thanks in advance

I honestly don't know and in addition this seems to be more like a general Skinning question you might need to open an own topic for, so that even creators not interested in this skin are able to contribute. This thread in here is all about StarAttributes - me providing updates, giving people the opportunity to formulate some kind of feedback or to illustrate some issues left, coming up while using the skin. Of course there's room for some questions too, but we'll need to be aware that this is no "How to merge skins"- or "How to implement personal preference xy"-support-thread. So please try to respect that. 

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1 hour ago, sebastian_starttrbts said:

I honestly don't know and in addition this seems to be more like a general Skinning question you might need to open an own topic for, so that even creators not interested in this skin are able to contribute. This thread in here is all about StarAttributes - me providing updates, giving people the opportunity to formulate some kind of feedback or to illustrate some issues left, coming up while using the skin. Of course there's room for some questions too, but we'll need to be aware that this is no "How to merge skins"- or "How to implement personal preference xy"-support-thread. So please try to respect that. 

wow.... your attributes file contains the client object broswer xml hence why i asked that question, also i have NEVER disrespected anyone or any "rules"

i stand by what i said about your work, it is fantastic

You might be surprised to find out just how many people would love to play with your stars in the flut skin.  Given the flut skin is by far the most detailed and downloaded skin ever created for the football manager series.  Your work and your skinning reputation would go through the roof.  Not just on here, but sortitoutsi and fmscout to name just a few.

 

I wish you all the best with your star attributes.

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5 minutes ago, Richard Bell said:

wow.... your attributes file contains the client object broswer xml hence why i asked that question, also i have NEVER disrespected anyone or any "rules"

i stand by what i said about your work, it is fantastic

You might be surprised to find out just how many people would love to play with your stars in the flut skin.  Given the flut skin is by far the most detailed and downloaded skin ever created for the football manager series.  Your work and your skinning reputation would go through the roof.  Not just on here, but sortitoutsi and fmscout to name just a few.

 

I wish you all the best with your star attributes.

I did not mean to say that I felt disrespected in any way. It is great to see you enjoying StarAttributes that much, but concerning the change in background and opacity %, I did not feel like I am the right person to ask, since I did not edit anything in the client object browser.xml. But I understand that it may have seemed like I did, because the file was in there, so sorry for that. But it was just part of the skin-folder I extracted via the Resource Archiver without editing it at any time. I did not mean to be rude, I just thought by opening an own thread you'll may find someone more experienced to help you with the background and opacity-issue.

I'll try to explain my thoughts concerning the merging of my skin with another one: Of course anybody can use StarAttributes and try to include them in any other skin for his personal use. But like I said, I personally do not have any plans on releasing a merged version of this at the moment, since I am still in the process of evaluating, whether there might be room for potential improvements in the concept and/or the graphical representation of the skin. And we'll discovered again with the "1's-issue" for example that a merging process might become like creating a whole new skin, needing a lot of trial and error, I do not have the time for at the moment (again). That's why I tried to describe the process I ran through while creating this skin, hoping it will help you. 

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6 minutes ago, sebastian_starttrbts said:

I did not mean to say that I felt disrespected in any way. It is great to see you enjoying StarAttributes that much, but concerning the change in background and opacity %, I did not feel like I am the right person to ask, since I did not edit anything in the client object browser.xml. But I understand that it may have seemed like I did, because the file was in there, so sorry for that. But it was just part of the skin-folder I extracted via the Resource Archiver without editing it at any time. I did not mean to be rude, I just thought by opening an own thread you'll may find someone more experienced to help you with the background and opacity-issue.

I'll try to explain my thoughts concerning the merging of my skin with another one: Of course anybody can use StarAttributes and try to include them in any other skin for his personal use. But like I said, I personally do not have any plans on releasing a merged version of this at the moment, since I am still in the process of evaluating, whether there might be room for potential improvements in the concept and/or the graphical representation of the skin. And we'll discovered again with the "1's-issue" for example that a merging process might become like creating a whole new skin, needing a lot of trial and error, I do not have the time for at the moment (again). That's why I tried to describe the process I ran through while creating this skin, hoping it will help you. 

I fully appreciate that, I have managed to merge the skin with everything minus the “1”s. 
I’ll definitely take that. 
it has made fm incredible now in my eyes. 
 

thank you so much for all your time and help on it all. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Great skin, it made me really go deeper into the realism side of the game. Does it support stadium backgrounds though? I tried fiddling with the opacity, but the stadium pictures still get cut in half.

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4 hours ago, SCCP1910 said:

Great skin, it made me really go deeper into the realism side of the game. Does it support stadium backgrounds though? I tried fiddling with the opacity, but the stadium pictures still get cut in half.

Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoy it that much :)

Since I don't use these stadium backgrounds, I haven't changed any xml-file to adjust picture size etc. My skin is based on the default-skin we can extract via the Resource Archiver. So maybe there's a guide you can look at on how to implement these pictures in the base skin. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 08/06/2021 at 10:44, sebastian_starttrbts said:

Thank you for your feedback.

I'm glad you enjoy this playing style that much :)

Thank you for this skin, it's perfect for my style of play :D

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Just wanted to pop in here and say THANK YOU SO MUCH for creating such a great skin - this is the first new FM I've bought since FM16 and I was looking to play with a higher challenge and this delivers exactly what I was looking for :)

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On 13/06/2021 at 03:00, B3nnet7 said:

Thank you for this skin, it's perfect for my style of play :D

It‘s great to hear that you enjoy this skin that much. Thank you :)

 

11 hours ago, Sebmono said:

Just wanted to pop in here and say THANK YOU SO MUCH for creating such a great skin - this is the first new FM I've bought since FM16 and I was looking to play with a higher challenge and this delivers exactly what I was looking for :)

Thank you for your kind words :) Although I love the FM-Series, I wanted to try something different in FM21 and the feedback I receive in this thread as well as on Twitter is just amazing. It is great to hear that you enjoy this playing-style the way I do. :)

 

 

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  • sebastian_starttrbts changed the title to [FM21][Skin] Non-numeric attributes [★] *updated August 29th*
Posted (edited)

*updated August 29th*

Changelog:

  • added an alternative approach without any information on potential ability (NoPA-version)

 

IMPORTANT:

How to make it work after Downloading:

  • Put "StarAttributes" in your skin-folder
  • open Football Manager, go to Preferences, choose "StarAttributes" and reload skin -> now player and staff profiles show stars, while the different views still show numeric attributes
  • exit Football Manager and reopen for person properties.xml to load
  • finally custom views as well as specific player role views show non-numeric attributes
Edited by sebastian_starttrbts
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On the player profile the Attacking and Creative charts are not appearing, is that normal? The others work a-ok. It looks like Wing Play also will not appear

Edited by teej9
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12 minutes ago, teej9 said:

On the player profile the Attacking and Creative charts are not appearing, is that normal? The others work a-ok. It looks like Wing Play also will not appear

Is this what you describe as "not appearing"?

2079943295_Screenshot2021-08-31at20_07_49.thumb.png.7e26914062004ef1a136db31cfa16f93.png

In general you'll need to play a certain amount of games to collect all the data needed to generate these visualisations. Therefore these sections might look like this at the start of a season. But with every game played, more data ist available and more charts can be generated. Let's assume a player needs 10 shots for example to be evaluated in this category, then we aren't able to create these visualisations when there is only information on 5 shots et cetera ...

As far as I know, there is either an information  ("Not enough data available to create visualisation) or the graphical representation. Anything else might be something for me to worry about.

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16 minutes ago, teej9 said:

@sebastian_starttrbts No, it will not even attempt to load the attacking, creative or wing play charts. When i click the option its like the button does not exist. Excellent skin, btw, really excellent.  

Oh that‘s the first time I hear of an issue like this. That‘s definitely not how it is supposed to be, so I‘ll keep my eyes on it. Thank you for sharing. 


Does it affect different charts on different players or is it always the attacking, creative or wing-play graphic?

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22 hours ago, teej9 said:

Always the same, players on any team, any league. 

Hello again, 

I tried this evening, but unfortunately I was not able to reproduce the issue you described. In any skin version, I am able to at least choose the appropriate graphical representation, showing either an information on the lack of data or the visualisation we'd like to see. Therefore I don't know how to solve this issue at the moment. But I'll keep it in mind.

Edited by sebastian_starttrbts
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Is it possible to add another attribute range?
I.e. to have 5 ranges instead of 4? Would actually make it to align with the stars levels nicely (5 stars, 5 attributes levels)
Or is the number of levels hardcoded?

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10 hours ago, Ablomis said:

Is it possible to add another attribute range?
I.e. to have 5 ranges instead of 4? Would actually make it to align with the stars levels nicely (5 stars, 5 attributes levels)
Or is the number of levels hardcoded?

Working on this skin for some time now, I haven't discovered any option to adjust the number of attribute levels yet. Therefore I don't think we are technically able to do so at the moment. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
7 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Loving this skin and the Las test update. 

 

I don’t know if this have been mentioned but playing with the NoPA version, the PA can be viewed on the squad depth screen. Is there a way for that to be removed as well?

Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoy StarAttributes :)

While using this skin in the standard version I discovered myself making transfer decisions mainly based on the information about potential ability, while I would prefer to sign players especially because of their in-game-performance. Therefore I decided to try out a no-PA-version and I still have to figure out whether I like it or not. 

827288640_Screenshot2021-09-19at10_12_41.thumb.png.f37d1a388b2a8b414606b96746e8b442.png

If you are talking about this screen, it is something I am aware of, but I currently don't know how to remove the views containing "potential ability". I was only able to remove the whole "Show"-section, resulting in an absence of the other views as the role suitability option or the best xi as well. Therefore I decided to keep it for now since we can ignore potential ability by "not choosing the appropriate views". 

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I really love this skin and the whole concept! I have been using it for a while in a save but I've noticed I've been having some trouble with scouting. When I look for new players it's pretty unclear to me wether an attribute star I see is a fully scouted one or not. This makes it quite difficult to properly asses a potential new signing. I have an idea about how to maybe make it more clear and I'm interested to see what you think of it.

What if any unscouted attribute that would show as a range with default FM skin would be represented by a different shape then a star? Say for example a circle/dot or a square. That way it's immediatly obvious at a glance which attributes are still unscouted and which are already scouted. I don't know if this is at all possible technically but I do believe that this would make this skin more playable (at least for me).

I'd love to hear your opinion about this idea.

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1 hour ago, Astudillo said:

I really love this skin and the whole concept! I have been using it for a while in a save but I've noticed I've been having some trouble with scouting. When I look for new players it's pretty unclear to me wether an attribute star I see is a fully scouted one or not. This makes it quite difficult to properly asses a potential new signing. I have an idea about how to maybe make it more clear and I'm interested to see what you think of it.

What if any unscouted attribute that would show as a range with default FM skin would be represented by a different shape then a star? Say for example a circle/dot or a square. That way it's immediatly obvious at a glance which attributes are still unscouted and which are already scouted. I don't know if this is at all possible technically but I do believe that this would make this skin more playable (at least for me).

I'd love to hear your opinion about this idea.

Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoy StarAttributes. :)

That's an interesting approach. A question-mark might be a nice option for unscouted attributes, as well. But as far as I know, we aren't able to choose different symbols for single attribute-categories yet. But have you tried to adjust the unscouted attributes' colour to make them more visible? While creating this skin, I decided to make them kind of transparent, but you are able to make them any colour you want to. There's a step by step guide to do so in the thread's opening post. 

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4 minutes ago, sebastian_starttrbts said:

Thank you for your feedback. I'm glad you enjoy StarAttributes. :)

That's an interesting approach. A question-mark might be a nice option for unscouted attributes, as well. But as far as I know, we aren't able to choose different symbols for single attribute-categories yet. But have you tried to adjust the unscouted attributes' colour to make them more visible? While creating this skin, I decided to make them kind of transparent, but you are able to make them any colour you want to. There's a step by step guide to do so in the thread's opening post. 

Thanks for the response! I think I mixed 2 things up, let me try to explain myself.

The completely unscouted attributes are actually quite clear right now, showing up with a different colour, and I don't have a problem with that. It's the "unclear" attributes (the ones that show as a range in the default skin, for example: 11-14) that I find difficult to deal with. Because the star system just shows the colour that the default skin would also show it seems like it's presented as a "scouted" attribute.

In my attached example picture you can see that using the default skin we know that Stamina is an unclear attribute (9-12) and could reveal itself in being an 11 if this player were to be scouted more. Pace actually has an attribute of 11 but shows a different colour. In your StarAttributes skin the stars have the same colours as the default skin. That itself is perfectly fine, the problem is we don't know that this star for Stamina is actually not 100% scouted. The underlying value COULD be 11 making the star white instead of gray if we scouted him more. As a player, I want to know which star colours I can "trust" and which need further scouting. Right now, unless I scout a player to 100% scouting knowledge (which is difficult to do sometimes, especially with poor low league clubs) I can't really trust any star colour I see, therefor making it impossible to make an informed decision based on attributes. For me, it would be wonderful if it were possible to distinguish between an unclear attribute and a scouted attribute.

I hope I explained myself well using this example!

 

example.jpg

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22 hours ago, Astudillo said:

Thanks for the response! I think I mixed 2 things up, let me try to explain myself.

The completely unscouted attributes are actually quite clear right now, showing up with a different colour, and I don't have a problem with that. It's the "unclear" attributes (the ones that show as a range in the default skin, for example: 11-14) that I find difficult to deal with. Because the star system just shows the colour that the default skin would also show it seems like it's presented as a "scouted" attribute.

In my attached example picture you can see that using the default skin we know that Stamina is an unclear attribute (9-12) and could reveal itself in being an 11 if this player were to be scouted more. Pace actually has an attribute of 11 but shows a different colour. In your StarAttributes skin the stars have the same colours as the default skin. That itself is perfectly fine, the problem is we don't know that this star for Stamina is actually not 100% scouted. The underlying value COULD be 11 making the star white instead of gray if we scouted him more. As a player, I want to know which star colours I can "trust" and which need further scouting. Right now, unless I scout a player to 100% scouting knowledge (which is difficult to do sometimes, especially with poor low league clubs) I can't really trust any star colour I see, therefor making it impossible to make an informed decision based on attributes. For me, it would be wonderful if it were possible to distinguish between an unclear attribute and a scouted attribute.

I hope I explained myself well using this example!

 

example.jpg

Now i got it, thank you for your detailled explanation :)

But i feel we aren't able to cover this topic at the moment. As far as I know, in the case of not fully scouted attributes the stars' colour always depends on the lower end of the range. Therefore there won't be any "downgrade" once we have some kind of idea about the players ability in this section. 

So we'll need to keep an eye on the scouting knowledge in order to evaluate the scouts' estimation of a player's attribute. In addition, the Reports/Overview might be helpful, as well. In this section we get at least some information about the areas we still need to scout, although there are no clear attributes mentioned.

254137129_Screenshot2021-09-21at19_39_22.thumb.png.ebd7f0f834e205159c495679676d68c3.png

 

Concerning your thoughts, I think we need to rely on a high percentage value of scouting knowledge (and the players performance on the pitch - his stats - of course) in order to make the best transfer decisions possible. Unfortunately I am not able to give you a more satisfying answer yet. 

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On 21/09/2021 at 19:48, sebastian_starttrbts said:

Now i got it, thank you for your detailled explanation :)

But i feel we aren't able to cover this topic at the moment. As far as I know, in the case of not fully scouted attributes the stars' colour always depends on the lower end of the range. Therefore there won't be any "downgrade" once we have some kind of idea about the players ability in this section. 

So we'll need to keep an eye on the scouting knowledge in order to evaluate the scouts' estimation of a player's attribute. In addition, the Reports/Overview might be helpful, as well. In this section we get at least some information about the areas we still need to scout, although there are no clear attributes mentioned.

254137129_Screenshot2021-09-21at19_39_22.thumb.png.ebd7f0f834e205159c495679676d68c3.png

 

Concerning your thoughts, I think we need to rely on a high percentage value of scouting knowledge (and the players performance on the pitch - his stats - of course) in order to make the best transfer decisions possible. Unfortunately I am not able to give you a more satisfying answer yet. 

I see what you're saying. Of course we look at several other aspects besides the attributes when looking for new players. It's just difficult to look at the attribute screen of a player (which you have for scouted to for example 50% scouting knowledge) and not be able to tell wether an attribute you're looking at is actually a fully scouted one or a partially scouted one. Since we áre able to easily determine this with the default skin, it feels like this is a handicap that your skin gives us that it's not necessarily designed to give us.

Anyway, I don't wanna sound rude or come across as if I don't like your skin, it's actually a wonderful concept that you were also able to design in a very appealing/tasteful way. It absolutely changes the way you play the game and after so many years of playing, it's a refresh I really needed. This is my elaborate way of saying thanks for making and sharing this skin, haha!

Edited by Astudillo
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20 hours ago, Astudillo said:

I see what you're saying. Of course we look at several other aspects besides the attributes when looking for new players. It's just difficult to look at the attribute screen of a player (which you have for scouted to for example 50% scouting knowledge) and not be able to tell wether an attribute you're looking at is actually a fully scouted one or a partially scouted one. Since we áre able to easily determine this with the default skin, it feels like this is a handicap that your skin gives us that it's not necessarily designed to give us.

Anyway, I don't wanna sound rude or come across as if I don't like your skin, it's actually a wonderful concept that you were also able to design in a very appealing/tasteful way. It absolutely changes the way you play the game and after so many years of playing, it's a refresh I really needed. This is my elaborate way of saying thanks for making and sharing this skin, haha!

Ok, I understand your point. Like I said, unfortunately I have no idea on how to solve this issue at the moment, but I'll keep my eye out from now on. 

Haha no problem :D I love every kind of feedback. Without feedback I am only able to include my thoughts and the issues I discover, but there might way more potential, I am not aware of at the moment. So thank you a lot and I am really looking forward to any further thoughts in the future. :)

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