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Bravery and Work Rate as a DNA - Asking for advice


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Hi there,

So I'm playing with Inter, a classic 4-4-2 and my idea for the long-term is to have 2 high value (or at least 13 at a minimum) core attributes across entire team: Bravery and Work Rate.

My idea for this is related with the system I'm using: a compact team with a medium block, sometimes I go a low block, but I never use a high block.

inter.jpg.7bfe3d471e0f04a2d486a1329986e0d2.jpg

I want my players to commit defensively and be brave (kinda like Simeone in his best Atletico Madrid years). I'm getting rid of those lazy players I have on my team. Unfortunately, Man City pay Lautaro's release clause, because him and Lukaku are the perfect example of what I want as the DNA.

I've already started to sign those kind of players:

locatelli.jpg.13ed9f4742a90ffc7efa0ce5f59ae92b.jpg 

torreira.jpg.d76416c792c0de18a920d0f520519b1e.jpg

772463275_nunomendes.jpg.e89757c804a319562bb9c09b9dd5ae33.jpg

zaniolo.jpg.ae58eadfee998434e673baa981abcf74.jpg

phoden.jpg.150e627606898cf43fdc005105f914ae.jpg

 

But this also means that I have to pass some talents like this one because of his low bravery:

savio.jpg.b4068c4f6b1e9efd283eded954c9307f.jpg

 

Do you think I'm going in the right direction? Because it's the first time I will do a long term based on core attributes for the all team, and I want to know if this idea behind it makes sense or do you think for example that bravery it's not important here? Because I'm aware that it's difficult to find players  with Bravery and Work Rate at acceptable levels in all positions, mainly attackinh ones.

Thank you all!

 

 

Edited by mikcheck
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@mikcheck you will thoroughly enjoy this save.. bravery and work rate have been at the heart of my club DNA since I learned the value of both of those attributes.  My only word of advice and caution is in the example you gave at the end.. is 8 bravery really worth passing on that player?  Now personally I would pass on him for the 5 positioning and 4 tackling scores in combination with his 8 bravery :brock:

 

Be flexible is all I'm saying.. even with my 10 bravery ideal I still will take the occasional 8 or 9 bravery score on a player who is a world beater in other areas.

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13 horas atrás, Kharza_FM disse:

@mikcheck you will thoroughly enjoy this save.. bravery and work rate have been at the heart of my club DNA since I learned the value of both of those attributes.  My only word of advice and caution is in the example you gave at the end.. is 8 bravery really worth passing on that player?  Now personally I would pass on him for the 5 positioning and 4 tackling scores in combination with his 8 bravery :brock:

 

Be flexible is all I'm saying.. even with my 10 bravery ideal I still will take the occasional 8 or 9 bravery score on a player who is a world beater in other areas.

Thanks for your reply.

I understand what you're saying, but that would defeat the purpose of the save. But in the case of that player with low bravery, maybe his aggression and acceptable work rate would make it up for it? 

I don't really know how committed can a player with good aggression but low bravery be.

9 horas atrás, [SFW]Medic Tim disse:

Are you Diego Simeone ?:cool:

No, but I wish I had his bank account :D

Edited by mikcheck
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22 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Thanks for your reply.

I understand what you're saying, but that would defeat the purpose of the save. But in the case of that player with low bravery, maybe his aggression and acceptable work rate would make it up for it? 

I don't really know how committed can a player with good aggression but low bravery be.

No, but I wish I had his bank account :D

I definitely agree with Kharza. You have a real good potential in that player. I'd definitely do my best to fit him into the system. Sometimes you should be able to make exceptions for these kind of cases

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18 minutes ago, frukox said:

I definitely agree with Kharza. You have a real good potential in that player. I'd definitely do my best to fit him into the system. Sometimes you should be able to make exceptions for these kind of cases

Hold on.. that's not what I said.. I actually agree passing on him but not just because of his lower bravery.. it is the low bravery + low positioning + low tackling.. forget that wide player ever being good defensively for you and won't develop into a good total footballer.

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5 minutes ago, Kharza_FM said:

Hold on.. that's not what I said.. I actually agree passing on him but not just because of his lower bravery.. it is the low bravery + low positioning + low tackling.. forget that wide player ever being good defensively for you and won't develop into a good total footballer.

Ok, I got it. I'd mould him into an attacking mezzala or any attacking role on the wings if he fitted into my system but I'd remember I'd need defensively good players behind him.

Edited by frukox
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4 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Diogo Jota fits nicely too

jota.jpg.e7f6a6d9d5c3c4e40597ac6596c05ba5.jpg

 

He would be my typical IF(A) or a striker ready to get behind the defensive line, which fits inyo your system.

Edited by frukox
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Just now, mikcheck said:

Diogo Jota fits nicely too

jota.jpg.e7f6a6d9d5c3c4e40597ac6596c05ba5.jpg

 

Yeah he's a good player.. Defensive winger training for a year and he will be a beast in any wide midfield role

 

2 minutes ago, frukox said:

Ok, I got it. I'd mould him into an attacking mezzala or any attacking role on the wings.

Neither for me.. are you planning on doing any high pressing or really pressing in general?  Well if so you need players that can actually press the ball and forget this guy from ever doing that very well with low bravery, positioning, and tackling.. hence why you pass on him :brock:

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1 minute ago, Kharza_FM said:

Yeah he's a good player.. Defensive winger training for a year and he will be a beast in any wide midfield role

 

Neither for me.. are you planning on doing any high pressing or really pressing in general?  Well if so you need players that can actually press the ball and forget this guy from ever doing that very well with low bravery, positioning, and tackling.. hence why you pass on him :brock:

I'd use him in any mid or low-block systems. Why not? His main job would be to skin past his man, assist or score. However, I'd skip him in his system. I agree with that.

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6 minutes ago, frukox said:

I'd use him in any mid or low-block systems. Why not? His main job would be to skin past his man, assist or score. However, I'd skip him in his system. I agree with that.

He can't defend well.

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Just now, Kharza_FM said:

He can't defend well.

I know he can't but he can be on the flanks. Suppose I played him as a right wide midfielder on attack. Then, I'd make sure my right center midfielder and my right full back is defensively good. If I played him as a striker, I wouldn't worry about him. Everything about football is in relation and is like a jigsaw puzzle for me. So nothing is impossible.

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1 minute ago, frukox said:

I know he can't but he can be on the flanks. Suppose I played him as a right wide midfielder on attack. Then, I'd make sure my right center midfielder and my right full back is defensively good. If I played him as a striker, I wouldn't worry about him. Everything about football is in relation and is like a jigsaw puzzle for me. So nothing is impossible.

So when he gets beat and your center mid now gets pulled out of position in the middle you create a gap in the center of the pitch (i.e. a more dangerous area of the field).. sounds like a liability to me.

“Great clubs have had one thing in common throughout history, regardless of era and tactics. They owned the pitch and they owned the ball. That means when you have the ball, you dictate play and when you are defending, you control the space” - Arrigo Sacchi

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9 minutes ago, Kharza_FM said:

So when he gets beat and your center mid now gets pulled out of position in the middle you create a gap in the center of the pitch (i.e. a more dangerous area of the field).. sounds like a liability to me.

“Great clubs have had one thing in common throughout history, regardless of era and tactics. They owned the pitch and they owned the ball. That means when you have the ball, you dictate play and when you are defending, you control the space” - Arrigo Sacchi

I wouldn't worry about that in a narrow defending. After all, playing a low block well is like an art, which requires physically good and mentally resilient players. As I said, if the right central midfielder and right full back has good positioning, acceleration, determination, anticipation, tackling, bravery, aggression, concentration, composure, teamwork, I think it' s still going to be defensively stable. As you said football is all about defending, controlling and attacking space with a collectively harmonious group. Every piece contributes to the whole.

Edited by frukox
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About Diogo Jota, he'd be used either as a striker or in the ML position in the  442 above, basically as a inside forward from deep. So there his positioning and tackling are not critical in my mid block.

Zaniolo is my support MR and acts basically as a playmaker (same instructions), without the playmaker role. I'm already training his positioning and tackling. I already have my eye on this dude, that I think it could perfectly fit there as well. Decent tackling, positioning, vision and passing. Plus acceptable bravery and work rate, as I like,

 

neill.jpg.57e60dde86589fb67aef3ae1ee78e532.jpg

 

So basically I want all my defend/support players to also have decent bravery, work rate, positioning and tackling. 

Other attributes are important too sure, but that depends on the roles. Does it make sense for the way I want to play?

 

 

Edited by mikcheck
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46 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

About Diogo Jota, he'd be used either as a striker or in the ML position in the  442 above, basically as a inside forward from deep. So there his positioning and tackling are not critical in my mid block.

Zaniolo is my support MR and acts basically as a playmaker (same instructions), without the playmaker role. I'm already training his positioning and tackling. I already have my eye on this dude, that I think it could perfectly fit there as well. Decent tackling, positioning, vision and passing. Plus acceptable bravery and work rate, as I like,

 

neill.jpg.57e60dde86589fb67aef3ae1ee78e532.jpg

 

So basically I want all my defend/support players to also have decent bravery, work rate, positioning and tackling. 

Other attributes are important too sure, but that depends on the roles. Does it make sense for the way I want to play?

 

 

Now that's my kind of wide midfielder!  A dribbler who can defend and serve a ball.. that boy is a total footballer!

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13 horas atrás, sporadicsmiles disse:

I'd also like to offer up determination as an attribute that will likely mesh well with what you are trying to do it. Although in most cases a high work rate and bravery is usually accompanied by a high determination.

Sure! I didn't even mention because I NEVER sign players with such low determination, I like it to be at least 12 so it can raise to good levels with tutoring, but I always try to bring players with a good value there already. Yes, it's very unusual to find players with high bravery and work rate but low determination.

Edited by mikcheck
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@mikcheck I'm on FM19 so some things may have changed but I thought I'd share a couple of tidbits:

  • Work Rate can be improved through praise / criticism of a player's training rating. I've often gotten +5 Work Rate over a couple of seasons. So particularly with youth signings I wouldn't worry about that too much (a good personality will obviously help this by getting them to train better in the first place).
  • I'm similar to you in that I look for good personalities, but if you sign a 16-year old with low determination yet have him training in squads with high determination you will be able to improve him. I got Amad Traore +9 Determination over 6 seasons: 3 in the youth ranks where the average was 12, then 3 in the first team being mentored. I've also had failings. So like a few people said above, be willing to make exceptions for potential stars. 
  • Bravery is a very good focus, its not only important but almost impossible to improve through training. Aggression, Bravery, Flair, Leadership, and Teamwork are very tough to improve (Leadership has increased over time with a lot of my newgens however, and if you train it for years you could maybe get +3 Flair). 
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