Need advice, trying to make Messi a legend

[w1nstar]

Hey all, I've been an avid FM player for the longest. Been reading the forums, subbed so some guys (BTN you are the shitz!), overall I can handle myself with tactics, and even if this FM21 is not too much to my liking, I've managed to have some success with different clubs.

What I want to do now is manage Barcelona, and get Messi to retire by playing him as much as I can. Ideally, I'd want him to become a legend (he's only an Icon O_o). He will lose his physicals and his dribbling over time, so in my mind he has to slowly become an enganche, or some kind of static playmaker. I've never had success with the enganche, nor the AMC position in itself. 4231 comes to mind as the stellar formation for an AMC to shine, but I've never been able to make it work either, since 4231 always ends up bottling my opposition... and given enough times every other team clogs the middle. Then you divert play to wings, and the central playmaker becomes a ghost.

There's a few points I'm clueless about in order to start this save. Like, literally I know nothing of, even after thousands of hours with the franchise:

- What's the best formation with wingers for a slow attacking central playmaker to shine? Back on FM17, I created a 4312 in wich the AP(s) was performing good, not stellar, but good enough. I now am at Barcelona, wich has some pretty good wingers with Dembele, Trincao, Fati, Konrad and maybe Pedri. Like I said, 4231 comes to mind but never got it to work. By work I mean after enough time I end up facing a bottled up opposition and having to play on the wings, making the central playmaker useless. Also, never seen the amc filtering defense breaking through passes at all. All of those come from the two guys behind him, since the AMC is mostly trying to mess up with the defenders, not staying back and collecting.

- Related to this first point, maybe I am looking at things in reverse, and what I need is a different system? Like, not playing possession football.

- In my mind, when Messi gets the ball, I want him to: 

• have either many options to make a killer ball: I don't have a clue on this. In my mind, he needs attacking duties in front of him. But 3 attacking duties seems to isolate him. Only 2 produces a pass to the support duty, so I'm thinking there's a problem on the transition.
• or players around him working to give him an opportunity. You know when Griezmann makes a run so he drags defenders? I don't have a clue on how to make that happen on FM, 21 or any other. Never seen it myself, never know what combination of instructions are needed for that. If I play a poacher, he dissapears from play. If I use a trequartista, he's a ghost too.
• and be in a dangerous position. This has been my main gripe with the franchise. I was there when Messi was playing F9 for Guardiola and remember the dude always getting the ball around the penalty area, mostly with his face to the rival's goal, prepared to make a pass or a dangerous run inside. Other players were fixing defenders for him. If I use an F9 he mostly is high pressured so he plays with his back to goal, or drops so deep that he's faced with 3 or 4 rivals in a very small space and passes it to wingers or playmakers behind him.

That's all. I did a search on Messi on the forums, but never got anything else other than the usual "what role Messi should play in". I apologize if this have discussed elsewhere.

TL/DR: I don't have a clue on playing a slow guy with stellar stats. He always gets pressured and shoved off the ball, even if it's Messi. Need advice on what system should I use for a REALLY slow amc, but with super technical & mental.

[Justified]

I'd probably just use Messi as an APsu in the wide role like he pretty much has his whole career. You can still use the 433 and just get roles to move around him. A Mez on attack and a WB behind him will give him loads of options.

If not an APsu in the AMC slot with short high tempo sort of football where opposition don't get time to close him down.

I don't honestly know Barca's squad by heart in the game so it's difficult to give you a 100% answer on this.

[w1nstar]

12 minutes ago, Justified said:

I'd probably just use Messi as an APsu in the wide role like he pretty much has his whole career. You can still use the 433 and just get roles to move around him. A Mez on attack and a WB behind him will give him loads of options.

If not an APsu in the AMC slot with short high tempo sort of football where opposition don't get time to close him down.

I don't honestly know Barca's squad by heart in the game so it's difficult to give you a 100% answer on this.

Problem I find is APs has him running a lot to one flank, to another flank, to another flank again (even playing narrow), and he ends up not doing anything. Get's drained quickly, plus he's slow and weak so he gets bodied easily.

Even if you don't know the squad, what would you do in my place? Having a slow and weak player that has every stat needed for a playmaker at almost 20.

Thanks for the reply!

[Johnny Ace]

Tough one really, the number 10 slot is a tricky one to get going, has been for a while, where anyone can seem to flourish playing out wide or upfront 

I've used Dybala & Gotze as a number 10 Trequartista & they got decent figures, but those guys have some pace  

My template 4-2-3-1 with an Enganche is:

GK - Any role you want, they seem crazy with their distribution in this current ME

DL - WB(S)

DC - DC(D)

DC - BPD (D)

DR - FB(S)

CML - CM(D)

CMR - CM(S)

AML - IF(S)

AMC - ENG(S)

AMR - IF(S)

STR - AF/PF (A)  

 

Then see how it goes, if teams are defending narrow & congesting that central area, try stretching play by going wider, maybe focus down the flanks 

If all else fails, stick him on pens & freekicks  

[Matto97]

Just finished a Barcelona save I started in beta and played for 3 seasons. all with a 4-2-3-1. First season I played Messi up front as an advanced forward the whole season as Griezmann had a long term injury in pre-season then came back and was rubbish so sat on the bench the whole year, He scored 40 goals in all competitions and a handful of assists to boot. Second season I brought in Haaland up front so shifted him out the right as an inverted winger support where he had a stellar season with 20+ goals and 20+ assists. The interesting season was his 3rd and final one as he had lost all of his pace and acceleration. I briefly tried him at attacking midfield as an advanced playmaker but he was rubbish there so I moved him back to 6 as a deep lying playmaker and he had a solid last season there, only a few goals off penalties but still double digit assists and a very high average rating.

[Justified]

1 hour ago, w1nstar said:

Problem I find is APs has him running a lot to one flank, to another flank, to another flank again (even playing narrow), and he ends up not doing anything. Get's drained quickly, plus he's slow and weak so he gets bodied easily.

Even if you don't know the squad, what would you do in my place? Having a slow and weak player that has every stat needed for a playmaker at almost 20.

Thanks for the reply!

Tbh I would probably go full Treq in the AMC role. You'd want him in a attacking role so he is as positive in his play as possible. He won't be physically fit enough to go pressing all over the shop anyways. It fits his PPM's as well. I'd probably have a Wsu on the right and IFat on the left. PFat upfront and a DLPde and BBM in midfield. It stretches play, has runners a plenty and would give him loads of options.

[w1nstar]

1 hour ago, Matto97 said:

Just finished a Barcelona save I started in beta and played for 3 seasons. all with a 4-2-3-1. First season I played Messi up front as an advanced forward the whole season as Griezmann had a long term injury in pre-season then came back and was rubbish so sat on the bench the whole year, He scored 40 goals in all competitions and a handful of assists to boot. Second season I brought in Haaland up front so shifted him out the right as an inverted winger support where he had a stellar season with 20+ goals and 20+ assists. The interesting season was his 3rd and final one as he had lost all of his pace and acceleration. I briefly tried him at attacking midfield as an advanced playmaker but he was rubbish there so I moved him back to 6 as a deep lying playmaker and he had a solid last season there, only a few goals off penalties but still double digit assists and a very high average rating.

Wich brand of football were you playing? High press, pass & move? Slow, posession? I expected to have 3 seasons like yours. I'm now starting the 3rd season and he's only 13 accel and speed and other lower physical stats. And he's still Icon, so I'm not accomplishing my goal!

 

 

9 minutes ago, Justified said:

Tbh I would probably go full Treq in the AMC role. You'd want him in a attacking role so he is as positive in his play as possible. He won't be physically fit enough to go pressing all over the shop anyways. It fits his PPM's as well. I'd probably have a Wsu on the right and IFat on the left. PFat upfront and a DLPde and BBM in midfield. It stretches play, has runners a plenty and would give him loads of options.

 

This is what I did on my first season, he scored the most goals on the team, and got ballon d'or. I thought a second season would be the defintiive one, but AI started parking the bus, overload the middle and Messi just dissapeared. I think I don't know how to play 4231 when it comes to extremely defensive sides. Other than opening up and getting crosses in, I know no other option.

[Justified]

2 hours ago, w1nstar said:

This is what I did on my first season, he scored the most goals on the team, and got ballon d'or. I thought a second season would be the defintiive one, but AI started parking the bus, overload the middle and Messi just dissapeared. I think I don't know how to play 4231 when it comes to extremely defensive sides. Other than opening up and getting crosses in, I know no other option.

A team "camping" with defensive formations is tough, but not impossible. If there is no space in front of their defence then an AMC will struggle, unless he is an attacking goalscorer. Against those teams it's about width and pace. You need to shift those teams around to get them out of position and have roles that overload. A 433 can do this quite easily and you could move Messi to the flank, partner with a MEZat and a WB behind to overload that flank. Messi would then use his quality to ping into the space left on the other side or recycle to the pivots in the middle.